RE: FW: new mexico law

October 17, 2009

I wholeheartedly concur with Dr. Guerrero's assessment. Continued growth and expansion of chiropractic, while maintaining a LIFETIME WELLNESS focus! (i.e. let's not fall into a modern-day version of the "mixers versus straights" debate).

Chiropractic can be ALL THINGS health! Drugs and surgery are not "health care" they are "sick care" (i.e., extreme measures that must be taken in order to save human life and ease human suffering).

I too feel that we should expand Chiropractic into any arena that improves human health...(however, to be fair, it could be argued that "skin aesthetics" is not really "health care," but simply a cosmetic procedure that really does not promote "lifetime wellness"). (:-)

M. s, D.C.

Re: FW: new mexico law

All,

I understand the idea of spreading our resources too thinly and that it may not be well accepted. That we may have opposition from other health care professions that don't want us in that arena. I forget how it was stated in the previous email opposing this change.

I want to say that New Mexico was able to move this legislation forward. When I worked as the Oregon delegate for the FCLB and the NBCE, I worked with the New Mexico delegates. They have set the DCs up in that state to legally deliver services that include laser esthetics. This is a broadly expanding field with lots of opportunities. We may also be able to do that if we follow their model. Also, we may position our profession as gatekeepers with this addition. There should be a way to retain the model of wellness care that our profession has promoted; with expansion of scope. With enough doctors joining the state or national associations, we can use PR campaigns to that end and not lose our identity. And although I am not interested personally in expanding my chiropractic scope, I do think it would help the profession's newer practitioners. I think it could ensure the continued growth of our profession. So I would be in favor of this for the above stated reasons.

Minga Guerrero DC

October 17, 2009

Minga,I don't want anyone on the bottom either, but we have to be realistic about what we are good at. The reality is that MDs rule the world of pathology. They are the best trained and they have access to the best tools - drugs and surgery. They are like the fire department. They are really good at putting out the fires.Chiropractors should rule the world of physiology. We should be the best trained in how to create better function, using the best tools - nutrition, exercise, stress management, & adjustments. We should be like the general contractor / repair / maintenance department. We have the potential to be the leaders in preventing fires from ever happening.The fact is, DCs are not trained and don't have the right tools to put out fires. In fact, we look like fools and are dangerous when attempting to put out fires with our tools. MDs are not trained and don't have the right tools to prevent fires. They look like fools and are dangerous when they try to prevent fires with drugs and surgery. We all have our place.To me, expansion of scope in the direction suggested is just a weak attempt by chiropractors to play fire department. I don't really care if a chiropractor wants to go that route, but I do care if a large amount of legislative time and money is being spent on something of this nature. I just think we should put our energy toward what we are good at - preventing fires.Yes, all healthcare providers want the same thing - for patients to get healthy. We just need to get real about what role we are all playing in the process and honor and respect each for their part.Jamey Dr. Jamey DysonAdvanced Chiropractic1295 Wallace Rd NWSalem, OR 97304503-361-3949drjdyson1@... On Oct 17, 2009, at 1:01 PM, AboWoman@... wrote: I do understand this position in the profession; to retain wellness and prevention as a basis for patient care. I think where we differ with the statement below, is in my 'collective healing' thought process. I don't think of 'us' and 'them' - 'DC and 'MD' as being separate goals. I don't want any health care practitioner to be 'on the bottom'. Whether it's PT, MD or any other profession we are sharing scope language with. I want to think of us as all one family of healers with a common goal of helping people be well. I don't see how expanding our scope will put us at the bottom of anything. I think it just adds to our bag of potential. I think all healing is moving towards lifestyle education that empowers the individual; that helps one to see how much we can do with optimizing our own health thru diet, exercise and mental/spiritual endeavors. I greatly appreciate and respect others efforts to practice wellness care. I see it in many of the MDs, PTs, LMTs, DCs and more that I come into contact with. It's so energizing and gives me such hope to see so many different professions aligned on a singular path. Minga Guerrero DC In a message dated 10/17/2009 4:47:49 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, drjdyson1@... writes: I think we would better position ourselves as a profession if we put our energy, time, and money into becoming experts in true wellness & prevention through lifestyle improvement. This will be the inevitable path of healthcare down the road. Massachusetts is trying to figure out how to do it now that their single payer system is bankrupt. They have realized that they missed the boat by making insurance available to everyone without addressing the underlying problem - people are chronically sick from their lifestyle choices. Now the federal government is going down that same path... what a waste of time and money!!! Uggghhh!!! We need to be Wellness & Prevention PCP's - that is what our state and our nation need more than anything. Leave the drugs and surgery to the MD PCP's... why would we want to invade their scope of practice and be second rate MDs? Some think this will "elevate" our status as healthcare providers, but I think it will only make it even more evident where we rank within the scope of mainstream medicine.... at the very bottom. We are a completely separate and distinct profession, working from a completely different paradigm of health. As doctors of chiropractic, we are ALL trained with wellness & prevention at the core of our practice philosophy (although this has been forgotten by some of us). We need to define and carve out a whole new approach to health through wellness & prevention, where MDs with their drugs and surgery will rank at the very bottom. Then and only then will we gain our rightful place among healthcare providers in our country... as Wellness & Prevention PCP's. My 3 cents, Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP Advanced Chiropractic 1295 Wallace Rd NW Salem, OR 97304 503-361-3949 drjdyson1comcast (DOT) net On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:27 PM, Dr. Elliott Mantell wrote: About 15 years ago there was a movement for a DCM certification with limited prescriptive privileges. Who was behind that besides Doctor Dallas we can only guess. However, when we venture too much into the medical arena I feel we are diluting our principles in terms of how the public perceives Chiropractic and our own skill levels become secondary to pain relief even if it means drugs. Do we really want to go down that path. I don't Elliott Mantell From: "drjohansenjuno" <drjohansenjuno>portlandchiro1gmailCc: dm.bonesmac; vsaboecomcast (DOT) net; Oregondcs Sent: Fri, October 16, 2009 9:43:43 AMSubject: Re: FW: new mexico law I agree with Will, we must choose our battles carefully, and this is not one worth fighting at this time.When you are the smaller Army, you have to choose your ground carefully so you have a better chance of winning the battle. This is not ground we can win on. R Johansen D.C.,DABCOChiropractic Life Center12762 SE Stark StreetPortland Oregon 97233Voice 5032557746,Fax 5032550818----- new mexico law Vern The statute passed creates a designation for advanced practice chiropractic physicians. Following the 100 hours of study, bumped up to a full masters level program with clinical rounds beginning in 2012, the DC-AP's are authorized to use alternate delivery methods including IV, Sub-Q and IM injection. The formulary is being worked out with the Board of Pharmacy and the Medical Board. As the FDA defines any substance injected into the body in any manner to be a "dangerous drug" (this includes sterile water and saline) we are obligated by the statute to have approval of all injectable portions of the formular by the BOP, MB and Chiro board.We have a formulary committee that debates and reviews all substances proposed. Here is the initial proposed formulary that will be considered by the Pharmacy Board on 10-19. What we'd like to see are DC's that can function fully and independently as full scope primary care physicians. We also feel that in order to manage a patient's change from a pharmaceutical to a natural therapeutic product that the physician needs to be more aware of the interactions and differences in administration and dosage that the current chiropractic graduate or licensee is now. Some of what the first group of DC-AP's will be able to add to their practices will be trigger point injections, prolotherapy, as well as IM/IV vitamin therapy. Bill Doggett DC FACO Advanced Practice Chiropractic Formulary As proposed by the formulary taskforce September 17th2009 Physical Medicine Injection Therapies Autologous blood collagenase, (Dupuytren’s contracture) dextrose glucosamine sulfate,( IM) glycerin, phenol, Platelet Rich Plasma sodium morrhuate, Sodium Hyaluronate ( Hyalgan Synvisc Hylan GF 20) all homeopathic medicines IV Nutritional Medicine Amino acids Alanine NE Arginine NE Choline Cysteine Glutamine Glycine NE Histidine Inositol Isolucine Leucine Lysine Metionine Phenylalanine Proline Sernine Taurine Threonine Tyrosine NE Tryptophan Valine Mminerals, all prepared for injectable and IV use Calcium Gluconate Chromic Chloride Cuperic Sulfate Germanium sesquioxide Magnesium Chloride Magnesium Sulfate Manganese Sulfate Molybdenum Potassium Chloride Selenium (selenious acid) Zinc Chloride Zinc Sulfate vitamins, all prepared for injectable and IV use, Aqueous Vitamin A (IM) Ascorbic Acid Cyanocobalamin D3 Dexapanthenol (B5) Folic Acid Hydroxocobalamin Methylcobalamin Niacin Pyrodoxine HCl Riboflavin Thiamine Accessory Nutrients glucose, Lactated Ringers, MSM, (methylsulfonylmetha ne)(IM or SQ) Chelation Ca-EDTA, Na-EDTA (ethylenediaminetetr aacetic acid) Other HCl (to adjust pH) NaHCO3 (to adjust pH) No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.16/2435 - Release Date: 10/14/09 06:33:00 -- Schneider DC PDX ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ___ House Rescue Bill Passed$133,000 mortgage under $679/mo. Compare rates and save!

October 17, 2009

Minga,I don't want anyone on the bottom either, but we have to be realistic about what we are good at. The reality is that MDs rule the world of pathology. They are the best trained and they have access to the best tools - drugs and surgery. They are like the fire department. They are really good at putting out the fires.Chiropractors should rule the world of physiology. We should be the best trained in how to create better function, using the best tools - nutrition, exercise, stress management, & adjustments. We should be like the general contractor / repair / maintenance department. We have the potential to be the leaders in preventing fires from ever happening.The fact is, DCs are not trained and don't have the right tools to put out fires. In fact, we look like fools and are dangerous when attempting to put out fires with our tools. MDs are not trained and don't have the right tools to prevent fires. They look like fools and are dangerous when they try to prevent fires with drugs and surgery. We all have our place.To me, expansion of scope in the direction suggested is just a weak attempt by chiropractors to play fire department. I don't really care if a chiropractor wants to go that route, but I do care if a large amount of legislative time and money is being spent on something of this nature. I just think we should put our energy toward what we are good at - preventing fires.Yes, all healthcare providers want the same thing - for patients to get healthy. We just need to get real about what role we are all playing in the process and honor and respect each for their part.Jamey Dr. Jamey DysonAdvanced Chiropractic1295 Wallace Rd NWSalem, OR 97304503-361-3949drjdyson1@... On Oct 17, 2009, at 1:01 PM, AboWoman@... wrote: I do understand this position in the profession; to retain wellness and prevention as a basis for patient care. I think where we differ with the statement below, is in my 'collective healing' thought process. I don't think of 'us' and 'them' - 'DC and 'MD' as being separate goals. I don't want any health care practitioner to be 'on the bottom'. Whether it's PT, MD or any other profession we are sharing scope language with. I want to think of us as all one family of healers with a common goal of helping people be well. I don't see how expanding our scope will put us at the bottom of anything. I think it just adds to our bag of potential. I think all healing is moving towards lifestyle education that empowers the individual; that helps one to see how much we can do with optimizing our own health thru diet, exercise and mental/spiritual endeavors. I greatly appreciate and respect others efforts to practice wellness care. I see it in many of the MDs, PTs, LMTs, DCs and more that I come into contact with. It's so energizing and gives me such hope to see so many different professions aligned on a singular path. Minga Guerrero DC In a message dated 10/17/2009 4:47:49 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, drjdyson1@... writes: I think we would better position ourselves as a profession if we put our energy, time, and money into becoming experts in true wellness & prevention through lifestyle improvement. This will be the inevitable path of healthcare down the road. Massachusetts is trying to figure out how to do it now that their single payer system is bankrupt. They have realized that they missed the boat by making insurance available to everyone without addressing the underlying problem - people are chronically sick from their lifestyle choices. Now the federal government is going down that same path... what a waste of time and money!!! Uggghhh!!! We need to be Wellness & Prevention PCP's - that is what our state and our nation need more than anything. Leave the drugs and surgery to the MD PCP's... why would we want to invade their scope of practice and be second rate MDs? Some think this will "elevate" our status as healthcare providers, but I think it will only make it even more evident where we rank within the scope of mainstream medicine.... at the very bottom. We are a completely separate and distinct profession, working from a completely different paradigm of health. As doctors of chiropractic, we are ALL trained with wellness & prevention at the core of our practice philosophy (although this has been forgotten by some of us). We need to define and carve out a whole new approach to health through wellness & prevention, where MDs with their drugs and surgery will rank at the very bottom. Then and only then will we gain our rightful place among healthcare providers in our country... as Wellness & Prevention PCP's. My 3 cents, Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP Advanced Chiropractic 1295 Wallace Rd NW Salem, OR 97304 503-361-3949 drjdyson1comcast (DOT) net On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:27 PM, Dr. Elliott Mantell wrote: About 15 years ago there was a movement for a DCM certification with limited prescriptive privileges. Who was behind that besides Doctor Dallas we can only guess. However, when we venture too much into the medical arena I feel we are diluting our principles in terms of how the public perceives Chiropractic and our own skill levels become secondary to pain relief even if it means drugs. Do we really want to go down that path. I don't Elliott Mantell From: "drjohansenjuno" <drjohansenjuno>portlandchiro1gmailCc: dm.bonesmac; vsaboecomcast (DOT) net; Oregondcs Sent: Fri, October 16, 2009 9:43:43 AMSubject: Re: FW: new mexico law I agree with Will, we must choose our battles carefully, and this is not one worth fighting at this time.When you are the smaller Army, you have to choose your ground carefully so you have a better chance of winning the battle. This is not ground we can win on. R Johansen D.C.,DABCOChiropractic Life Center12762 SE Stark StreetPortland Oregon 97233Voice 5032557746,Fax 5032550818----- new mexico law Vern The statute passed creates a designation for advanced practice chiropractic physicians. Following the 100 hours of study, bumped up to a full masters level program with clinical rounds beginning in 2012, the DC-AP's are authorized to use alternate delivery methods including IV, Sub-Q and IM injection. The formulary is being worked out with the Board of Pharmacy and the Medical Board. As the FDA defines any substance injected into the body in any manner to be a "dangerous drug" (this includes sterile water and saline) we are obligated by the statute to have approval of all injectable portions of the formular by the BOP, MB and Chiro board.We have a formulary committee that debates and reviews all substances proposed. Here is the initial proposed formulary that will be considered by the Pharmacy Board on 10-19. What we'd like to see are DC's that can function fully and independently as full scope primary care physicians. We also feel that in order to manage a patient's change from a pharmaceutical to a natural therapeutic product that the physician needs to be more aware of the interactions and differences in administration and dosage that the current chiropractic graduate or licensee is now. Some of what the first group of DC-AP's will be able to add to their practices will be trigger point injections, prolotherapy, as well as IM/IV vitamin therapy. Bill Doggett DC FACO Advanced Practice Chiropractic Formulary As proposed by the formulary taskforce September 17th2009 Physical Medicine Injection Therapies Autologous blood collagenase, (Dupuytren’s contracture) dextrose glucosamine sulfate,( IM) glycerin, phenol, Platelet Rich Plasma sodium morrhuate, Sodium Hyaluronate ( Hyalgan Synvisc Hylan GF 20) all homeopathic medicines IV Nutritional Medicine Amino acids Alanine NE Arginine NE Choline Cysteine Glutamine Glycine NE Histidine Inositol Isolucine Leucine Lysine Metionine Phenylalanine Proline Sernine Taurine Threonine Tyrosine NE Tryptophan Valine Mminerals, all prepared for injectable and IV use Calcium Gluconate Chromic Chloride Cuperic Sulfate Germanium sesquioxide Magnesium Chloride Magnesium Sulfate Manganese Sulfate Molybdenum Potassium Chloride Selenium (selenious acid) Zinc Chloride Zinc Sulfate vitamins, all prepared for injectable and IV use, Aqueous Vitamin A (IM) Ascorbic Acid Cyanocobalamin D3 Dexapanthenol (B5) Folic Acid Hydroxocobalamin Methylcobalamin Niacin Pyrodoxine HCl Riboflavin Thiamine Accessory Nutrients glucose, Lactated Ringers, MSM, (methylsulfonylmetha ne)(IM or SQ) Chelation Ca-EDTA, Na-EDTA (ethylenediaminetetr aacetic acid) Other HCl (to adjust pH) NaHCO3 (to adjust pH) No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.16/2435 - Release Date: 10/14/09 06:33:00 -- Schneider DC PDX ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ___ House Rescue Bill Passed$133,000 mortgage under $679/mo. Compare rates and save!

October 18, 2009

Question for Vern or whomever would know

the answer to this:

If we include injections and the use of

pharmaceuticals in our practices, will we be LESS likely to have the support of

naturopathic organizations and perhaps also of the alternatively aligned

MDs? Would we be more likely to have their support if we have clear

delineation of what we do that is different from what they do?

We might do best if we have the support of

acupuncture and naturopathic organizations. What say you Vern?

Would we have more political “clout” if we worked together on some

issues with those organizations?

My gut feeling is to agree with Dr.

’ points (below) and with Herb Freeman and others. I feel

that many DCs do NOT understand healing and are treating symptoms rather than practicing

natural health care. Prolotherapy and injections may help people and we

may do better if we refer our patients to other professionals for those

therapies, if natural means do not help them, rather than doing injections and

utilizing pharmaceuticals ourselves.

We might be wise to first know our own

specialty well, prior to delving into utilizing other therapies. Physical

therapists have expanded into CranioSacral and into doing manipulations.

Massage therapists and physical therapist are doing organ manipulations. If

those therapists continue to develop their skills, they could well end up being

the preferred providers for many of the services that have traditionally been

chiropractic’s.

I would prefer to see us include Mind Body

therapies as part of chiropractic, at this time. This is an emerging area

and perhaps we would be wise to include that in our scope. We might

help a lot more people to achieve true wellness if we included that.

Janet L Rueger, DC

Certified Craniopath

(SORSI)

149 Clear Creek Dr., Suite 105

Ashland, OR

97520

541-690-6799

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Vern Saboe

Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009

5:53 PM

Oregondcs

Subject: [sPAM]

Fw: FW: new mexico

law

From our good colleague Dr. who asked

that I forward his

comments to the list.....Vern Saboe

new mexico

law

>

> Vern

>

> The statute passed creates a designation for advanced practice

> chiropractic

> physicians. Following the 100 hours of study, bumped up to a full masters

> level program with clinical rounds beginning in 2012, the DC-AP's are

> authorized to use alternate delivery methods including IV, Sub-Q and IM

> injection. The formulary is being worked out with the Board of Pharmacy

> and

> the Medical Board. As the FDA defines any substance injected into the body

> in any manner to be a " dangerous drug " (this includes sterile

water and

> saline) we are obligated by the statute to have approval of all injectable

> portions of the formular by the BOP, MB and Chiro board.We have a

> formulary

> committee that debates and reviews all substances proposed. Here is the

> initial proposed formulary that will be considered by the Pharmacy Board

> on

> 10-19. What we'd like to see are DC's that can function fully and

> independently as full scope primary care physicians. We also feel that in

> order to manage a patient's change from a pharmaceutical to a natural

> therapeutic product that the physician needs to be more aware of the

> interactions and differences in administration and dosage that the current

> chiropractic graduate or licensee is now. Some of what the first group of

> DC-AP's will be able to add to their practices will be trigger point

> injections, prolotherapy, as well as IM/IV vitamin therapy.

>

> Bill Doggett DC FACO

>

> Advanced Practice Chiropractic Formulary

>

> As proposed by the formulary taskforce September 17th 2009

>

> Physical Medicine Injection Therapies

>

> Autologous blood

>

> collagenase, (Dupuytren's contracture)

>

> dextrose

>

> glucosamine sulfate,( IM)

>

> glycerin,

>

> phenol,

>

> Platelet Rich Plasma

>

> sodium morrhuate,

>

> Sodium Hyaluronate ( Hyalgan Synvisc Hylan GF 20)

>

> all homeopathic medicines

>

> IV Nutritional Medicine

>

> Amino acids

>

> Alanine NE

>

> Arginine NE

>

> Choline

>

> Cysteine

>

> Glutamine

>

> Glycine NE

>

> Histidine

>

> Inositol

>

> Isolucine

>

> Leucine

>

> Lysine

>

> Metionine

>

> Phenylalanine

>

> Proline

>

> Sernine

>

> Taurine

>

> Threonine

>

> Tyrosine NE

>

> Tryptophan

>

> Valine

>

> Mminerals, all prepared for injectable and IV use

>

> Calcium Gluconate

>

> Chromic Chloride

>

> Cuperic Sulfate

>

> Germanium sesquioxide

>

> Magnesium Chloride

>

> Magnesium Sulfate

>

> Manganese Sulfate

>

> Molybdenum

>

> Potassium Chloride

>

> Selenium (selenious acid)

>

> Zinc Chloride

>

> Zinc Sulfate

>

> vitamins, all prepared for injectable and IV use,

>

> Aqueous Vitamin A (IM)

>

> Ascorbic Acid

>

> Cyanocobalamin

>

> D3

>

> Dexapanthenol (B5)

>

> Folic Acid

>

> Hydroxocobalamin

>

> Methylcobalamin

>

> Niacin

>

> Pyrodoxine HCl

>

> Riboflavin

>

> Thiamine

>

> Accessory Nutrients

>

> glucose,

>

> Lactated Ringers,

>

> MSM, (methylsulfonylmethane)(IM or SQ)

>

> Chelation

>

> Ca-EDTA,

>

> Na-EDTA (ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid)

>

> Other

>

> HCl (to adjust pH)

>

> NaHCO3 (to adjust pH)

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.16/2435 - Release Date: 10/14/09

> 06:33:00

>

October 18, 2009