Re: Beautiful story on perfumes that survived the Titanic

[Guest guest]

> TITANIC survivor's lost scents are finally uncovered

>

> http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/stories/

> Detail_LinkStory=86913.html

I wonder if his original formula was made with pure

botanicals of rose and violets, or synthetics?

-R-

Roxana Villa

Visual and Aromatic Artist

http://www.roxanavilla.com

NEW PAINTINGS at http://www.theispot.com/artist/villa

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:25:21 -0700, you wrote:

> I wonder if his original formula was made with pure

> botanicals of rose and violets, or synthetics?

I would imagine a little of both. Even today, real rose and violet is

used in fine fragrances. The synthetics or " nature identical "

products are used to " boost " certain notes and create a unique

character to the fragrance.

-= ß =-

_______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Roxanna:

Synthetic fragrances weren't in wide use until just after World War 1.

Before that, flowers that couldn't be distilled were enfluraged or tinctured

to extract their fragrance, or essential oils were combined to replicate

their scent.

Cat

> botanicals of rose and violets, or synthetics?

[Guest guest]

> I have tried to duplicate a few

> of these 100 year old formulas - it is creative fun but dealing with

> civit, my old ambergris and tincture of musk is difficult and there is

> only a little bit of it.

Hi Jeanne:

Trying to replicate the old tinctures of musk and ambergris using synthetic

fragrance oils has been an ongoing obsession of mine for some time now! My

collection of old perfume recipes (some dating to the 16th century) call for

these ingredients, but trying to figure out how much fragrance oil to use to

recreate these old formulas, especially when I don't have any idea how

pungent the original was is a headache.

Would you have any idea of the ratio to use (fragrance oil to the real

thing)?

Thanks,

Cat

[Guest guest]

> I am not trying to duplicate the musk, ambergris and civit as I have them

> in my collection. What I meant was that I am trying to duplicate the

> old perfume formulas but I do not want to use all of my Musk, Ambergris

> and Civit. I would not dream of using synthetics - ever. They are toxic

> and environmentally damaging. Trying to duplicate old 100-year old

> formulas has to do with getting original distillation equipment (which I

> have), some old solvents and original odors (that I also have). I have

> managed, in 1980, to duplicate a 1920 Chypre formula (which is in my

> Perfumery Workbook) and had it authenticated by an old Grande Dame that I

> knew. Since I do not work with fragrance oils, I have no idea what the

> ratios would be.

Hi Jeanne:

I had tried making musk and ambergris mixtures using labdanum, ambrette,

patchouli, etc., but it's kind of hard to come up with a definitive blend

when you don't know what the original is like! I would dearly love to smell

some real musk and ambergris. A friend from Jordan offered to try and get

me a bit, but it would have drained my bank account, not to mention a

possible " friendly " visit from U.S. Customs!

I had even toyed with the idea using the deer rut available in sports shops

during hunting season...pee-yoo! :-Þ

Thanks again,

Cat

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:07:06 -0700 (PDT), Jeanne Rose wrote:

> I would not dream of using synthetics - ever. They are toxic

> and environmentally damaging.. ..

Uh???

There are VERY toxic substances in nature, created by nature....

There is no basis for that " global " statement about " synthetics " being

toxic. Synthetics can be controlled and their assay controlled.

Many " synthetics " in perfumery are part of the terpene chemistry, and

derived from natural by-products.

JFYI.....

-= ß =-

Everything is toxic, it's a matter of concentration / dosage.

_______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

*snip*

>

> There are VERY toxic substances in nature, created by nature....

>

> There is no basis for that " global " statement about " synthetics "

being

> toxic. Synthetics can be controlled and their assay controlled.

>

> Many " synthetics " in perfumery are part of the terpene chemistry,

and

> derived from natural by-products.

>

> JFYI.....

>

> -= ß =-

> Everything is toxic, it's a matter of concentration / dosage.

> _______________________________________________________

Your point is well taken on toxic compounds being a part of nature,

but another way to interpret the original post is that perhaps there

are already enough toxics in this world (which occur in nature)

without synthesizing more of them.

sara

[Guest guest]

> Your point is well taken on toxic compounds being a part of nature,

> but another way to interpret the original post is that perhaps there

> are already enough toxics in this world (which occur in nature)

> without synthesizing more of them.

Sara, remember that most pharmaceuticals (medicines) are also

" synthetics " .....

I'll I'm saying, we should not be duped, but educate ourselves.

I'm dropping the subject. This is almost a " religious " experience <g>.

-= ß =-

_______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

*snip*

>

> Sara, remember that most pharmaceuticals (medicines) are also

> " synthetics " .....

>

> I'll I'm saying, we should not be duped, but educate ourselves.

>

> I'm dropping the subject. This is almost a " religious " experience

<g>.

>

> -= ß =-

> _______________________________________________________

Sure they're synthetics. We're not discussing pharmaceuticals

though, but perfumery ingredients, being as this is a natural

perfumery list.

And I must say, it was through educating myself that I came to the

conclusions I understand as truths now.

I'm not sure the subject needs dropping, but if you prefer to step

away from it, cheers .

sara

[Guest guest]

> Sure they're synthetics. We're not discussing pharmaceuticals

> though, but perfumery ingredients, being as this is a natural

> perfumery list.

>

> And I must say, it was through educating myself that I came to the

> conclusions I understand as truths now.

>

> I'm not sure the subject needs dropping, but if you prefer to step

> away from it, cheers .

This is indeed a " natural " perfumery list, and I did stray from the subject

by asking about the use of possible synthetic substitutes for musk and

ambergris. One of my interests is replicating the perfumes of the past,

many of which use animal-based fixatives.

I am interested in nature-based scents as well, but not when it involves the

slaughter of animals to the point of extinction.

Please consider this subject closed.

Thank you.

Cat