Guest guest Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Pete or anyone else on the list: I would be very interested any comments on how best to integrate HEG with EEG NF. Is anyone using them in combination or should they be used mutually exclusively and what about session numbers. I really appreciate your feedback. Mark www.markwaller.com Mark Waller, Ph.D. LMFT Author of the new book, " The Dance of the Lion and the Unicorn: The Secret of Conscious Relationships.Available at:http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=27895 Also on Amazon.com The Waller Group Family Counseling, Inc. 17451 Bastanchury Rd #204-35, Yorba , CA 4091 Riverside Dr. Ste 112, Chino, CA mail@... www.markwaller.com tel: (714) 528-8484 (909) 238-9434 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 I think to set up your Brainmaster for HEG, you not only have to have it updated by Brainmaster (if it can be done), but you have to buy a HEG unit from Hershel Toomim, which I think is $1200 or so. Only does the nirHEG. For that kind of money, go with the pocket or pendant. Re: Ringing in Ears and EEG Hey guys, I want to get a HEG system. What's the best Bang For the Buck out there? Thanks! -- A Do Something Useful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 ~ For $1,000 you can purchase the Pendant HEG , the Pocket is quite a bit more but you can do stand alone HEG with the Pocket which I like rather than being hooked to BE and the computer. ~ Re: Ringing in Ears and EEG Hey guys, I want to get a HEG system. What's the best Bang For the Buck out there? Thanks! -- A Do Something Useful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 , Originally pIR was developed by Jeff Carmen to work with his migraine clients, since that was a major interest of his. nIR was developed by Hershel Toomim around attention problems. As both have been used by others, both have seemed to work with a broad range of issues, so now both say they can pretty much do anything. The biggest differences, from my experience, would be: 1. pIR is touted as not requiring the degree of " effort " to make changes; nIR requires " intention " (probably both do) and a fairly intense effort. 2. nIR is often used in multiple sites with the session being split into sub-categories; pIR is usually used at Fpz only and the entire session is done there. To use either you need sensor (the headband) amplifier (a special HEG Pendant or a Pocket Neurobics are probably the best value) and software (BioExplorer.) WaveRider cannot, to the best of my knowledge, do HEG or be adapted to do it. BrainMaster can, though the cost of doing so is very steep and, with the older Brainmaster at least (haven't heard much about the new wideband in this area) the implementation is not so good. If you can decide which approach you want to use (nIR or pIR), then an HEG Pendant with headband is around $1,000. You already have BE, and the designs can be downloaded free from Pocket-neurobics.com. If you think you might want to use both options and/or combine them with EEG, then the Pocket Neurobics is probably the best option, though the cost with one HEG headband will be around $1,700. Pete > > From: " A " <PetePixxx@...> > Date: 2006/03/08 Wed PM 03:49:42 EST > < > > Subject: HEG > > I'm thinking of getting a HEG machine. The BT site says that pIR is leaning toward migraine (which I don't technically have, just regular headache) and the nIR is good for attention which I need lots of. > > I already have BioExplorer, a WaveRider and an old BrainMaster. Can I just get the headband? Does all the software games come with it? What other options are recommended for a single user, home trainer? > > Thanks! > > -- A > Do Something Useful > > > - > Subject: Re: Ringing in Ears and EEG > > > Hey guys, > > I want to get a HEG system. What's the best Bang For the Buck out there? Thanks! > > -- A > Do Something Useful > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 , The cost of fitting the Brainmaster is about $450, but then the cost of the HEG unit is around $1,200 if I'm not mistaken, because it requires (like earlier ProComp machines) several interfaces to connect the nIR unit with the BrainMaster (can't do pIR, I don't think). The Pocket and Pendant have built-in all those interfaces, so the headband plugs right into them and works immediately. Pete > > From: psychologics@... > Date: 2006/03/08 Wed PM 06:15:45 EST > > Subject: Re: HEG > For a price, you can have your older BrainMaster retrofitted to add HEG, but it's areound $450 for that, I think. The HEG signal is a slowly varying signal, so the feedback is generally less game-like than EEG. Bioexplorer has some HEG screenes, and Minder Labs has some stuff available for download to use with their products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 You're just trying to make me feel good about myself. It's working... Re: HEG A in Detroit!! Cool!Rah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 A~ For me as a mom who has to try to make the training more interesting and less a hassle, it was nice that I could take the pocket in the car on our way to some practice or lesson, or even just sit on the sofa and have them strap it on. It seemed less formal and they would be more willing to engage. Takes about 3 clicks and 10 seconds compared to setting up the computer, BE, the design etc.... And you are right, the videos are good, for younger kids, not so much for my teens. Glad I was able to help, ~ Re: HEG ~ For $1,000 you can purchase the Pendant HEG , the Pocket is quite a bit more but you can do stand alone HEG with the Pocket which I like rather than being hooked to BE and the computer. ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 ~ It's nice to know that the setup for stand alone HEG is that easy. I don't have kids but for me about the only thing I do except for sit at the computer is to explore nature, hiking and kayaking. The idea of training while relaxing out "in nature" sounds very restful to me. Got to make sure I don't drop it in the lake. Would that be covered under warranty? You can also expect it will soon see Jon . Actually I was only referring to the opening installation videos. I thought I would start with the video games to see which I like. And also to figure out what it means to experience "intention". What programs are out there after that? Are there a lot to choose from? What are some favorites? I haven't even thought it that far. Have a great day! ~ A Do Something Useful P.S. notice the ~ in my signature now! Thanks! Looks much better. Re: HEG ~ For $1,000 you can purchase the Pendant HEG , the Pocket is quite a bit more but you can do stand alone HEG with the Pocket which I like rather than being hooked to BE and the computer. ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 I have both kinds of HEG and can show them while Pete and Pete are here. Re: Ringing in Ears and EEG >> > >> > >> > Hey guys, >> > >> > I want to get a HEG system. What's the best Bang For the Buck out >> there? Thanks! >> > >> > -- A >> > Do Something Useful >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ! GROUPS LINKS >> >> a.. Visit your group " " on the web. >> >> b.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 A, No, way, Man. I just tend to blurt (if you hadn't noticed). I'm glad you're feeling good! Rah > > You're just trying to make me feel good about myself. It's working... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 You are so-o-o-o-o right about the ease of use of the stand alone HEG !! I had no idea. Just got it yesterday. Read the instructions. Slap it on and get to work! It's real easy to get the audio feedback to whistle for me. Feel better already! ~ A Do Something Useful Re: HEG ~ For $1,000 you can purchase the Pendant HEG , the Pocket is quite a bit more but you can do stand alone HEG with the Pocket which I like rather than being hooked to BE and the computer. ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 Rah, Thanks! I'll add that. Looks better than the simple line. Been working on that "intent" thing. So far it seems somewhat connected to a visual eye focus and a feeling of the index finger relation to the feeling in the forehead. As if a person might see something and then instruct the finger to pick it up. In a meditation sitting position it "feels" like the index finger is wrapped across the forehead. "Activating" the brain seems to directly relate to twitches in feeling state in the parts of the fingers. I also find that my spine wants to straighten up. Which is a good thing since it has a slight lean at the lower end. I'm having some problems getting adjusted to the feeling of the energy shooting up the spine through the center of the head, then the dramatic drop in the HEG. Like sparking the brain and it needs to re-set itself. The spark is a pleasant sensation, it's just the HEG drop after that I wonder about. Found that if I feel a "tension" headache coming on while reading if I place the sensor over the pain, the pain dissipates quickly. That is nice! Oh, well... so much to learn. ~ A DSU RE: HEG A, Does your design have a trend object? You might like that if it doesn't. Rah **************************************************************************************** That is great! I just did my first BE HEG and I have only a very small idea of what I'm looking at. All I really know is the sound feedback should go up. The BE started real low, went to 80s, then 90s, then hovered 96-98 for a while then roller coaster down to 94. What a trip! ~ A Do Something Useful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Great ... it's certainly good to have consensus like that. I'll try the same and see what happens. Mark Hello> > I"m new on this group ! )> > I got Pendent EEG I BioExplorer This week )))> > What do you think bout HEG Kit ?? Do you think it really mesuring blood flow in th brain ?> > Thank you ))))> > HERAZ> http://alicia.heraz.free.fr/ > Étudiante en Doctorat aux Laboratoires HERON et GRITI > (514) 343 6532 + 45042> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 This thread is very interesting to me - I also train nirHEG at FpZ, Fp2, Fp1 in that order, and I arrived at this independently. My initial reasoning was that I wanted the clients (kids) to leave with "impulsivity" (Fp1) as tuned-up as possible. I had some concerns that training elsewhere prefrontally after Fp1 could effectively divert activity from that area, and the kids seemed to do better after I trained in the order we're discussing. (Emotional dysregulation can be awful, but the fallout seems to be less awful when it's not accompanied by impulsive aggression.) Of course, Hershel has the benefit of hard data, and I'm limited to clinical observation and outcome. I know that he has been using a two-sensor setup to track the distal effects of training. Thanks for sharing your clinical approach, --------- Hello> > I"m new on this group ! )> > I got Pendent EEG I BioExplorer This week )))> > What do you think bout HEG Kit ?? Do you think it really mesuring blood flow in th brain ?> > Thank you ))))> > HERAZ> http://alicia.heraz.free.fr/ > Étudiante en Doctorat aux Laboratoires HERON et GRITI > (514) 343 6532 + 45042> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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