question re different machines

[Guest guest]

I have a question from a friend who attended Pete's training as a layperson,

hoping to do neurofeedback on her son, who has some ADD symptoms. She even

had Pete do an initial assessment about 11/2 years ago. She has decided to use

a clinician instead of home training herself, which in her situation, is the

better choice. She has interviewed two people in her area. She has a

question re one Dr. and the machine he uses and asked that I pose this question.

She writes, " I have unsubscribed myself from BrainTrainer because I hadn't

been reading the messages. If you are still subscribed, will you please ask a

question for me? I want to find out whether the F1000 machine, the one used

by the Dr. -- , in Brea, CA , which supposedly has a transmission rate 3 times

faster than the Spectrum machine, is it really better because you can cut down

the training sessions to 30 sessions of 1/2 hour each from 40 sessions one

hour each. When I

hear from you with the reference from your colleague, I will make a

decision. I am leaning towards the Brea Dr. pending a good reference

because it is a lot closer and also it costs half as much. On the other

hand, I wonder whether family counselling is also an important factor in

our situation. I don't know yet. "

Thanks to the list for any input. I will forward replies to my

friend.

[Guest guest]

Three times faster transmission rate! Wow, that sounds pretty high tech. My problem is that I have no idea what exactly a transmission rate is. I presume she got this information from Dr. -- in Brea, so hopefully he'll be able to explain it to her understanding. If he can't, the Dr. can call me at the phone number below any time of the day or night and explain it to me. I'll explain it to the list and to her.

The F1000 hasn't been manufactured at least since 2002. Interesting quote from the website: "The F1000 is a real time DOS based system which was designed for use with mainstream computers that have been in use since the 1980's." What it is NOT designed to do is to work with computers that operate anything after Win98. So I'm assuming that this is the same argument used by Margaret Ayers, when she says her hardware/software package--and only hers--works best. I don't know about EEG'er software, but I do know that in BioExplorer you can set all the various optional smoothing levels to zero and get something pretty close to "real-time" feedback. Unfortunately most clients can't stand to use it, since it is so wildly variable.

I bought an F1000 in 1997 or 1998, not long before they stopped making it. It was a one-channel machine, not like the two-channel units we all use today (except those who use Spectrum software). Its feedback was a green circle that got larger or smaller and tones that went up and down with the amplitude. I used it for a year or so, though most clients weren't big fans of it. Aside from the fact that it didn't have to wrestle with Windows for control of the computer, I don't know what possible technological advantages it might have had. When Deits stopped making them, I got rid of mine, and to the best of my knowledge the only ones still around are used ones. I'm sure there are a few folks who bought one (for $2,500 in mid-90's dollars) and continue to struggle to keep their old computers running to keep using it because they are daunted by learning Windows and new hardware and software platforms and can't get their money back out of it. Maybe there are also folks still driving around in 1924 Reos as well.

The first question I would ALWAYS ask when someone gave me this sort of a claim ("...you can cut down the training sessions to 30 sessions of 1/2 hour each from 40 sessions one hour each.") would be, "If that's really true and documentable, then why would anyone use anything BUT an F1000?" I mean we had this remarkable machine designed and built around 10 years ago that is so superior to anything that's come along since...well, I just don't understand how EVERYONE but Dr. -- missed it!

Finally, you might point out to your friend that there are more options than Spectrum (a DOS program recently ported over to Windows) and F1000 (a DOS program never ported over). There are actually software programs that are written for and in the Windows environment, and they offer much better feedback and broader training options and very fast feedback and good sampling rates and lots of other neat stuff, including the ability to train in two channels instead of only one.

All of that said, however, if she can set aside his ridiculous and unverifiable claim that his old machine actually makes brains learn faster, if Dr. -- is closer and cheaper, and if she likes him and feels that he will do a good job for her, then she should at least try him out. Those are two pretty valid decision points.

Pete

Van DeusenBrainTrainer ()16246 SW 92nd Ave, Miami, FL 33157305/321-1595

question re different machines

I have a question from a friend who attended Pete's training as a layperson, hoping to do neurofeedback on her son, who has some ADD symptoms. She even had Pete do an initial assessment about 11/2 years ago. She has decided to use a clinician instead of home training herself, which in her situation, is the better choice. She has interviewed two people in her area. She has a question re one Dr. and the machine he uses and asked that I pose this question. She writes, "I have unsubscribed myself from BrainTrainer because I hadn't been reading the messages. If you are still subscribed, will you please ask a question for me? I want to find out whether the F1000 machine, the one used by the Dr. -- , in Brea, CA , which supposedly has a transmission rate 3 times faster than the Spectrum machine, is it really better because When I hear from you with the reference from your colleague, I will make a decision. I am leaning towards the Brea Dr. pending a good reference because it is a lot closer and also it costs half as much. On the other hand, I wonder whether family counselling is also an important factor in our situation. I don't know yet."Thanks to the list for any input. I will forward replies to my friend.

[Guest guest]

:

Have your friend contact me. I am in Yorba , which is just next to Brea. I am a licensed marriage family therapist as well as a NF provider.

As to the Dr. (I know who this is) claim that it can cut down the number of sessions. Have him produce clinical studies that support his claim.

I believe the number of sessions is a function of the client and not the equipment. Claims and specsmanship are used when people really do not understand the technology. I believe it is a scare tactic. A good assessment and effective treatment will always win out over things like sampling rates.

Sincerely

Mark

www.markwaller.com

Mark Waller, Ph.D. LMFT

The Waller Group Family Counseling, Inc.17451 Bastanchury Rd #204-35Yorba 4091 Riverside Dr. Ste 112Chino

mail@...www.markwaller.com

tel: (714)

528-8484 (909) 238-9434

From: lindamary8@... [mailto:lindamary8@...] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:44 AM Subject: question re different machines

I have a question from a friend who attended Pete's training as a layperson, hoping to do neurofeedback on her son, who has some ADD symptoms. She even had Pete do an initial assessment about 11/2 years ago. She has decided to use a clinician instead of home training herself, which in her situation, is the better choice. She has interviewed two people in her area. She has a question re one Dr. and the machine he uses and asked that I pose this question. She writes, "I have unsubscribed myself from BrainTrainer because I hadn't been reading the messages. If you are still subscribed, will you please ask a question for me? I want to find out whether the F1000 machine, the one used by the Dr. -- , in Brea, CA , which supposedly has a transmission rate 3 times faster than the Spectrum machine, is it really better because you can cut down the training sessions to 30 sessions of 1/2 hour each from 40 sessions one hour each. When I hear from you with the reference from your colleague, I will make a decision. I am leaning towards the Brea Dr. pending a good reference because it is a lot closer and also it costs half as much. On the other hand, I wonder whether family counselling is also an important factor in our situation. I don't know yet."Thanks to the list for any input. I will forward replies to my friend.