Re: not enabling

[Guest guest]

I have not been around much lately, but I have a question. Krysti my 16 yr

daughter is coming off her 3rd meds since diagnosed a year ago. She is coming

off zoloft and will be going on effexor more for depression. Yes her symptoms

are increasing a little, but not like we thought. The zoloft must not have been

working for a long time.

Here is my problem. Her grandma pd. for a volleyball camp (hottest week of year

107) that started yesterday at noon and goes to Thursday at noon. She has been

so nervous packing, but really seemed to get excited at times. Packed

everything in the house. Volleyball has been in her life since I started

coaching when she was 2. She says the only think she wants to do this year in

school is play volleyball (not cheer, b-ball or softball)

because she loves it so much. Here is the deal. Last night she called and was

so jazzed about the day at camp. Very long, hard and extremely hot. She has 8

roomies instead of her and her friend like stated. She almost panicked when we

dropped her off. She was so excited on the phone. Now today at 1:00, I get the

frantic crying call. If I leave camp I am a quitter, but it is so hard and hot.

If I stay I don't know if I can do it. I

listened for over 15 minutes and told her we would come and watch her tonight

for her night session. I told her she could decide about coming home (the

college is only 2 miles away). Coming off zoloft (down to 50 mg from 200

now-and not on effexor yet) I know all the extremes must be hard for her. She

said the roomates laughed at her for several things she did before bed!! That

crushed her, cause she tries to hide everything anyway and she

only knows one of the girls and she doesn't get it.

What should I do? I am mom first, coach last. I told her if she couldn't make

to come home.

When it is 107 she still goes to the fair that has been going on. How much am I

causing stress by encouraging her to stay, or am I enableing her to give up on

something when it gets rough.

This is such a hard thing for me. I am so angry that ocd has taken much of her

athletic spirit. Only for the reason that she has always loved it. She told

me, this is making her hate volleyball! They do work them hard, yet her High

school try-outs are in 2 weeks. What should I do. I called the head coach and

she will notify her immediate coaches and they have a counselour who knows some

of ocd who would mingle w/ her and see if they

could help. Where as parents do we draw the line. She doesn't want grandma to

be mad at the $350.00. She would be disappointed, but my child is my only

concern.

Any suggestions? My heart just aches after jumping for joy at her phone call

last night!!

Lori-ca

[Guest guest]

This is a hard situation but I think you have all the right instincts and

priorities. Now you just need some time to see how it plays out. Emotions can

be so dramatic and change so quickly! She might feel relieved just to know

it's her choice and so feel less trapped and that might be enough to help her

stay just one more day to see if it gets better.

If it doesn't get better you can say that it was a valuable experience because

she learned something about herself that every athlete has to know: their

limits. Hers will be that she should not train hard and away from home while

adjusting her medications. Learning what your limits are enables you to work

around them and then they aren't so limiting.

Please let us know how it goes. Good luck.

Dana in NC

[Guest guest]

Dana,

Well she came home, after getting heat stroke. They sent her home for the

night. She will drive herself there a little later after having her own

breakfast and a good nights sleep in her comfort zone.

She will come home for lunch and miss the afternoon session and then return to

the last evening session. The next and final day (Thursday) is just awards and

a little graduation type thing over by noon. She made the decisions and did all

she could! My goodness I felt her just packing and leaving things behind were a

big deal. Each event now we will know what to watch for in limits.

Thanks for writing, it helps so much to hear. I didn't even pick her up. One

of the coaches (happens to be an aquaintance) brought her home and helped her w/

decisions. Mom stayed out of most of it. I am proud of her for making her

right and most important choices!

Lori-ca

Dana wrote:

> This is a hard situation but I think you have all the right instincts and

priorities. Now you just need some time to see how it plays out. Emotions can

be so dramatic and change so quickly! She might feel relieved just to know

it's her choice and so feel less trapped and that might be enough to help her

stay just one more day to see if it gets better.

>

> If it doesn't get better you can say that it was a valuable experience because

she learned something about herself that every athlete has to know: their

limits. Hers will be that she should not train hard and away from home while

adjusting her medications. Learning what your limits are enables you to work

around them and then they aren't so limiting.

>

> Please let us know how it goes. Good luck.

>

> Dana in NC

>

>

>

> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the

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[Guest guest]

HI Lori:

Krysti is doing very well in very difficult circumstances. Lori you are

doing so well to be supportive but standing back and letting her learn how

to handle life's challenges on her own. I think this is the most difficult

part of parenting an OCDer. You just send her an enormous vote of

confidence that she can handle the tough times and make good decisions.

Hope she recovers from heat stroke really soon. Take care yourself too,

aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 06:59 PM 08/01/2000 -0700, you wrote:

>Dana,

>Well she came home, after getting heat stroke. They sent her home for the

night. She will drive herself there a little later after having her own

breakfast and a good nights sleep in her comfort zone.

>She will come home for lunch and miss the afternoon session and then

return to the last evening session. The next and final day (Thursday) is

just awards and a little graduation type thing over by noon. She made the

decisions and did all she could! My goodness I felt her just packing and

leaving things behind were a big deal. Each event now we will know what to

watch for in limits.

>Thanks for writing, it helps so much to hear. I didn't even pick her up.

One of the coaches (happens to be an aquaintance) brought her home and

helped her w/ decisions. Mom stayed out of most of it. I am proud of her

for making her right and most important choices!

>Lori-ca

>

>Dana wrote:

>

>> This is a hard situation but I think you have all the right instincts

and priorities. Now you just need some time to see how it plays out.

Emotions can be so dramatic and change so quickly! She might feel relieved

just to know it's her choice and so feel less trapped and that might be

enough to help her stay just one more day to see if it gets better.

>>

>> If it doesn't get better you can say that it was a valuable experience

because she learned something about herself that every athlete has to know:

their limits. Hers will be that she should not train hard and away from

home while adjusting her medications. Learning what your limits are

enables you to work around them and then they aren't so limiting.

>>

>> Please let us know how it goes. Good luck.

>>

>> Dana in NC

[Guest guest]

Thanks,

feeling much better, cool, showered and own bed. She wants to go for the early

a.m. session and come home for lunch. Then not return for the afternoon session

because of heat and it is too hard for her she said. The evening session is

scrimmage (6 on 6 playing) so she wants to go to that. I think several breaks

during the day within her control is the answer. I wanted to go to check on her

and aid her but I didn't. Yes I walked around

the house in tears for about 30 min or so. I calmed down and realized she would

make the right decision. I told her to call so I would know her plans. She did

and I think they are wonderful. I am proud of her for her decisions considering

she is coming off her meds. What do you think of her being only on effexor

(anti-dep) and off ocd meds. I don't notice a big difference in routines. Heat

has always made her irritable anyway, more so

now though.

This med is supposed to uplift her and give her more positive energy. So they

are taking a different route w/ her cause paxil, luvox and zoloft have pooped

out. We thought zoloft was going so well. Over a period of time, it faded as

if nothing was making a difference. Also by the way FYI-Benadryl or Tylenol

p.m. gives her awful nightmares. She is finding other ways to fall asleep.

Any suggestions from others on the nighttime delemma?

Thanks for caring

Lori-ca

Kathy Hammes wrote:

> HI Lori:

>

> Krysti is doing very well in very difficult circumstances. Lori you are

> doing so well to be supportive but standing back and letting her learn how

> to handle life's challenges on her own. I think this is the most difficult

> part of parenting an OCDer. You just send her an enormous vote of

> confidence that she can handle the tough times and make good decisions.

>

> Hope she recovers from heat stroke really soon. Take care yourself too,

> aloha, Kathy (H)

> kathyh@...

>

> At 06:59 PM 08/01/2000 -0700, you wrote:

> >Dana,

> >Well she came home, after getting heat stroke. They sent her home for the

> night. She will drive herself there a little later after having her own

> breakfast and a good nights sleep in her comfort zone.

> >She will come home for lunch and miss the afternoon session and then

> return to the last evening session. The next and final day (Thursday) is

> just awards and a little graduation type thing over by noon. She made the

> decisions and did all she could! My goodness I felt her just packing and

> leaving things behind were a big deal. Each event now we will know what to

> watch for in limits.

> >Thanks for writing, it helps so much to hear. I didn't even pick her up.

> One of the coaches (happens to be an aquaintance) brought her home and

> helped her w/ decisions. Mom stayed out of most of it. I am proud of her

> for making her right and most important choices!

> >Lori-ca

> >

> >Dana wrote:

> >

> >> This is a hard situation but I think you have all the right instincts

> and priorities. Now you just need some time to see how it plays out.

> Emotions can be so dramatic and change so quickly! She might feel relieved

> just to know it's her choice and so feel less trapped and that might be

> enough to help her stay just one more day to see if it gets better.

> >>

> >> If it doesn't get better you can say that it was a valuable experience

> because she learned something about herself that every athlete has to know:

> their limits. Hers will be that she should not train hard and away from

> home while adjusting her medications. Learning what your limits are

> enables you to work around them and then they aren't so limiting.

> >>

> >> Please let us know how it goes. Good luck.

> >>

> >> Dana in NC

>

>

>

> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the

body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. The Archives, Files,

and Features List for the may be accessed by going to

, enter your email address and password, then point and

click. Subscription issues, problems, or suggestions may be addressed to Louis

Harkins, list owner, at harkins@... .

[Guest guest]

Hi Lori:

You are really asking for trouble asking me about Effexor <VBG>. I have

been taking Effexor for a few weeks and this is my first experience with

medication, other than bc pills and antineoplastic meds. I am definitely a

fan of Effexor as it has helped me calm down a lot, and stopped the eternal

committee meeting about all that needs to be done going on in my head.

Perhaps the CBT I am doing for depression is also responsible but this

medication is really helping me. I found it necessary to take Effexor in

the am with breakfast otherwise getting to bed before midnight was not

possible and I have to get up at 5:30 a.m. Krysti may need to change the

timing to cope with feeling too wide awake. None of my usual strategies,

like watching TV, reading a boring book, would help me go to sleep.

Dr. J. has written on the OCD-L about the clinical evidence that Effexor

has anti-obsessional properties, as well as anti-depressant ones. That is

one of the reasons I chose this as a medication I wanted to try for

depression, since I thought it might be a possible for Steve, if he poops

out on Luvox like Paxil.

Sounds like Krysti is prepared to deal with CBT. Is she getting any of

this therapy for her OCD? She really seems to be ready to start taking

charge of things, you must be very proud of her. For Steve, the CBT with

E & RP has been way, way more effective against OCD than any meds. He is

complaining about feeling dumb on Luvox, but is very sweet, not depressed,

and wonderful to live with right now. He told me it is helping with his

obsessions quite a bit, mostly because he feels too dumb to worry about

them much.

Dr. C. wrote on the OCD-L about research looking into what helped people

sleep and CBT was very effective for this, e.g. relaxation, meditation,

etc. What helps me is to play relaxing music, 's Tom uses lavender

oil on his pillow, some take a warm bath, and engage in other " rituals " or

traditions to prepare to sleep (not done over and over of course :-)) ).

Good luck Lori, take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 09:37 PM 08/01/2000 -0700, you wrote:

>Thanks,

>feeling much better, cool, showered and own bed. She wants to go for the

early a.m. session and come home for lunch. Then not return for the

afternoon session because of heat and it is too hard for her she said. The

evening session is scrimmage (6 on 6 playing) so she wants to go to that.

I think several breaks during the day within her control is the answer. I

wanted to go to check on her and aid her but I didn't. Yes I walked around

>the house in tears for about 30 min or so. I calmed down and realized she

would make the right decision. I told her to call so I would know her

plans. She did and I think they are wonderful. I am proud of her for her

decisions considering she is coming off her meds. What do you think of her

being only on effexor (anti-dep) and off ocd meds. I don't notice a big

difference in routines. Heat has always made her irritable anyway, more so

>now though.

>This med is supposed to uplift her and give her more positive energy. So

they are taking a different route w/ her cause paxil, luvox and zoloft have

pooped out. We thought zoloft was going so well. Over a period of time,

it faded as if nothing was making a difference. Also by the way

FYI-Benadryl or Tylenol p.m. gives her awful nightmares. She is finding

other ways to fall asleep.

>Any suggestions from others on the nighttime delemma?

>Thanks for caring

>Lori-ca

[Guest guest]

Lori,ca

Kristi has made a wonderful transition from dependant to independant! She,

and you mom, make some terrific choices - and everything worked out!

Effexor works for depression and ocd. My daughter, adi, was on it for

about a year before she stopped medication. It definatly made her feel more

capable of coping, has few side effects, and helped her to feel more in

control of herself. I cant remember how much she was on, but I think it

was between 150 and 300mg, which falls within the normal range - higher

fitting in for the ocd.

About sleeping, ziv takes 50mg of trazadone to fall asleep since the

zoloft keeps her awake. Adi, without meds remember, takes Nyquil sometimes.

Tom adds a few drops of lavender oil to his pillow at night.

You have done some excellent work lately - keep it up, girl!!

wendy, in canada wb4@...

________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

My son took Melatonin for about a year about 4 years ago. It is sold in

pharmacies, and health food stores. It was okayed by his p-doc and was very

sucessful. He said to give it to him about 12 before I wanted him up in the

morning. took 3 mg. The first night I gave it to him, he fell asleep on

the coach very quickly (he was very sleep deprived). After that, I would give

it to him after dinner, and he was in bed by 8:30 and asleep very quickly. It

seemed to stop working after he switched from Zoloft to Luvox. Now he takes,

Risperdal, and Clonidine with Luvox, and usually doesn't have trouble

sleeping.

Good luck,

Anne in CT

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

Thanks for the comforting words about the new meds. Zoloft was a godsend in the

beginning for her after coming off Luvox. Her biggest challenge right now is

being down, sad and tired (depressed) She seems to be able to change routines

often and that amazes me. Some she can't sway from at all. CBT-NO the

counselour (only one we have found here) saw Krysti 5 times and said she is

handling everything on her own and is bossing back a lot.

That was it! I have bought books, but I have been too tired to get through

them. The med Dr. really feels Krysti is outgrowing some of her huge

compulsions (is this possible) She is able to do so much more out w/ friends

etc., but it is summer time with sleeping in and no homework. (dreading that

again!) Anyway, she starts effexor tomorrow and probably will take in the a.m.

Zoloft was a.m. also cause she has a hard time falling asleep.

Do you feel more upbeat. Krysti is asking, begging the dr. to help her feel

lifted up and happy. Sometimes cheerful. She says she can handle some of the

compulsions, but where did the happiness go? That is so hard to hear.

Volleyball really showed me how much she is struggling.

I guess the v.b. trainer said her blood pressure went way up and she got a temp.

They iced her down and called. This is when she made the decision(mom already

knew what it would be!) Anyway thanks for the advice I will let you know how

the new med works for her. Pray hard and loud everyone as joy has been so far

away for her.

Love Lori-CA

Kathy Hammes wrote:

> Hi Lori:

>

> You are really asking for trouble asking me about Effexor <VBG>. I have

> been taking Effexor for a few weeks and this is my first experience with

> medication, other than bc pills and antineoplastic meds. I am definitely a

> fan of Effexor as it has helped me calm down a lot, and stopped the eternal

> committee meeting about all that needs to be done going on in my head.

> Perhaps the CBT I am doing for depression is also responsible but this

> medication is really helping me. I found it necessary to take Effexor in

> the am with breakfast otherwise getting to bed before midnight was not

> possible and I have to get up at 5:30 a.m. Krysti may need to change the

> timing to cope with feeling too wide awake. None of my usual strategies,

> like watching TV, reading a boring book, would help me go to sleep.

>

> Dr. J. has written on the OCD-L about the clinical evidence that Effexor

> has anti-obsessional properties, as well as anti-depressant ones. That is

> one of the reasons I chose this as a medication I wanted to try for

> depression, since I thought it might be a possible for Steve, if he poops

> out on Luvox like Paxil.

>

> Sounds like Krysti is prepared to deal with CBT. Is she getting any of

> this therapy for her OCD? She really seems to be ready to start taking

> charge of things, you must be very proud of her. For Steve, the CBT with

> E & RP has been way, way more effective against OCD than any meds. He is

> complaining about feeling dumb on Luvox, but is very sweet, not depressed,

> and wonderful to live with right now. He told me it is helping with his

> obsessions quite a bit, mostly because he feels too dumb to worry about

> them much.

>

> Dr. C. wrote on the OCD-L about research looking into what helped people

> sleep and CBT was very effective for this, e.g. relaxation, meditation,

> etc. What helps me is to play relaxing music, 's Tom uses lavender

> oil on his pillow, some take a warm bath, and engage in other " rituals " or

> traditions to prepare to sleep (not done over and over of course :-)) ).

>

> Good luck Lori, take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

> kathyh@...

>

> At 09:37 PM 08/01/2000 -0700, you wrote:

> >Thanks,

> >feeling much better, cool, showered and own bed. She wants to go for the

> early a.m. session and come home for lunch. Then not return for the

> afternoon session because of heat and it is too hard for her she said. The

> evening session is scrimmage (6 on 6 playing) so she wants to go to that.

> I think several breaks during the day within her control is the answer. I

> wanted to go to check on her and aid her but I didn't. Yes I walked around

> >the house in tears for about 30 min or so. I calmed down and realized she

> would make the right decision. I told her to call so I would know her

> plans. She did and I think they are wonderful. I am proud of her for her

> decisions considering she is coming off her meds. What do you think of her

> being only on effexor (anti-dep) and off ocd meds. I don't notice a big

> difference in routines. Heat has always made her irritable anyway, more so

> >now though.

> >This med is supposed to uplift her and give her more positive energy. So

> they are taking a different route w/ her cause paxil, luvox and zoloft have

> pooped out. We thought zoloft was going so well. Over a period of time,

> it faded as if nothing was making a difference. Also by the way

> FYI-Benadryl or Tylenol p.m. gives her awful nightmares. She is finding

> other ways to fall asleep.

> >Any suggestions from others on the nighttime delemma?

> >Thanks for caring

> >Lori-ca

>

>

>

> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the

body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. The Archives, Files,

and Features List for the may be accessed by going to

, enter your email address and password, then point and

click. Subscription issues, problems, or suggestions may be addressed to Louis

Harkins, list owner, at harkins@... .

[Guest guest]

At 06:23 PM 8/2/00 -0400, you wrote:

>

>My son took Melatonin for about a year about 4 years ago. It is sold in

>pharmacies, and health food stores. It was okayed by his p-doc and was very

>sucessful. He said to give it to him about 12 before I wanted him up in the

>morning. took 3 mg. The first night I gave it to him, he fell asleep on

>the coach very quickly (he was very sleep deprived). After that, I would give

>it to him after dinner, and he was in bed by 8:30 and asleep very quickly. It

>seemed to stop working after he switched from Zoloft to Luvox. Now he takes,

>Risperdal, and Clonidine with Luvox, and usually doesn't have trouble

>sleeping.

>

>Good luck,

>

>Anne in CT

>

Anne and all,

I have a son who was on Elavil for sleep and didn't sleep well with it...he

added Melatonin with the Dr.s okay and began to sleep, WHEN he was

ready..it didn't knock him out. He is 14 and recalled that when he was on

clonidine he slept fine and asked to be changed back...and he usually does

okay, but if he doesn't have the " feel " of being ready to sleep he will

still take a melatonin, again with the Dr.s okay....it has also helped me

in the past, no hangover either....Dee

>

>

>You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the

>body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. The Archives,

>Files, and Features List for the may be accessed by

>going to , enter your email address and password,

>then point and click. Subscription issues, problems, or suggestions may be

>addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at harkins@... .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello

One of Krysti's problems is at night not being able to sleep. Since we switched

zoloft to a.m. she has been better. The benadryl or tylenol p.m. gave her

terrible nightmares. That really scared her.

The dr. gave her klonopin at one point but it didn't work, well she now can take

one to sleep and it helps peacefully.

Krysti is working so hard, but I have seen such a change. She is independent,

but more withdrawn. She was always the silly one. I haven't seen a real smile

in months. Mom is definately learning to back away. It is difficult for me.

One thing Krysti really obsesses about is hurts and bruises etc.

Since her leg surgery that compulsion is strong. We say " it will get better w/

ice " and walk away as not to give to much attention to it, she then will get

over it faster.

Thanks for all the advice and comments. I haven't talked on here lately, but I

do read everyday. I am trying to let ocd be more a natural learning process for

me, as I became obsessed with fixing my daughter and that only made me depressed

as I realized " I can't fix her "

Lori-ca

" W. Birkhan " wrote:

> Lori,ca

>

> Kristi has made a wonderful transition from dependant to independant! She,

> and you mom, make some terrific choices - and everything worked out!

>

> Effexor works for depression and ocd. My daughter, adi, was on it for

> about a year before she stopped medication. It definatly made her feel more

> capable of coping, has few side effects, and helped her to feel more in

> control of herself. I cant remember how much she was on, but I think it

> was between 150 and 300mg, which falls within the normal range - higher

> fitting in for the ocd.

>

> About sleeping, ziv takes 50mg of trazadone to fall asleep since the

> zoloft keeps her awake. Adi, without meds remember, takes Nyquil sometimes.

> Tom adds a few drops of lavender oil to his pillow at night.

>

> You have done some excellent work lately - keep it up, girl!!

>

> wendy, in canada wb4@...

> ________________________________________________________________________

> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

>

>

>

> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the

body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. The Archives, Files,

and Features List for the may be accessed by going to

, enter your email address and password, then point and

click. Subscription issues, problems, or suggestions may be addressed to Louis

Harkins, list owner, at harkins@... .