Guest guest Posted March 15, 2000 Report Share Posted March 15, 2000 My daughter, Ava, got Bse's on both Zoloft and Luvox and neither of her doctors mentioned that they might be temporary either so I took her off them, maybe too soon. She is taking Paxil now, which has helped with her mood/depression and somewhat with her OCD, but not that much. We're in the process of seeing a new doc and maybe we'll have better success with this one. Dana in NC SEnLE@... wrote: > From: SEnLE@... > > Dear Kathy R., > I was very interested in your great post (not too long at all! btw) to > Terri about Evan taking zoloft and having his impulsivity increased etc. > > That has happened to my daughter (as I mentioned in a post to Terri too) > and we always ended up dropping her dose and/or changing meds. The > psychiatrist never talked about these BSEs being " temporary " like other side > effects might be. But I have always wondered about this because if, indeed, > the SSRIs need generally to be at higher doses for OCD (than say for > depression) then how do we get to the higher dose when the BSE gets pretty > severe on the way there. I would love to have any info that I could show the > pdoc about this phenomena....if you know where I could find it online, or in > research, or in books, etc. > > Thanks again, kathy R. > > take care, > laurie in WI > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > PERFORM CPR ON YOUR APR! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > 1/2121/2/_/531051/_/953098008/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing > listserv@... . > In the body of your message write: > subscribe OCD-L your name. > The Archives and Links List for the OCD and > Parenting List may be accessed by going to > / . > Enter your email address and password. > Click on the highlighted list name and then click on message archives by month or links located in the toolbar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2000 Report Share Posted March 15, 2000 Hi Laurie, I can't think of anything you could print out and take to your doc, but tonight I'll try to take a look through my bookmarks, or maybe someone else can help here. I know the OC Foundation website has some information about med BSEs in children, but I remember reading it shortly after Kel was diagnosed--when we were in middle of her titrating up on Prozac--and not finding much comfort there. Kel's first doctor just kept saying " that's very unusual " when I would describe some of the things she was doing--but she was the first young child he'd treated. It was Kel's current doctor (who has several younger kids with OC/TS in his practice) who wrote out a list of things I might notice while she was titering up on her second SSRI, Luvox, and who told me that many if not all the behavior things would probably fall away over time, but certainly to call if she was doing anything that particularly concerned me, etc. He also told me that BSEs are often more pronounced in younger kids, less so in teens for example, which he said is due to younger kids' lower levels of impulse control, whether taking an SSRI or not. We have an appointment with Kel's doctor this afternoon, I'll ask if he can point me toward a reference of SSRI BSEs diminishing after the initial titering up phase. I believe it was who raised her daughter's Prozac on a very gradual schedule and was able to avoid BSEs altogether. Probably using the liquid Prozac would make it possible to make tiny adjustments in dose--I'm not sure if any other SSRI is available in liquid form. Kathy R. in Indiana > From: SEnLE@... > > Dear Kathy R., > I was very interested in your great post (not too long at all! btw) to > Terri about Evan taking zoloft and having his impulsivity increased etc. > > That has happened to my daughter (as I mentioned in a post to Terri too) > and we always ended up dropping her dose and/or changing meds. The > psychiatrist never talked about these BSEs being " temporary " like other side > effects might be. But I have always wondered about this because if, indeed, > the SSRIs need generally to be at higher doses for OCD (than say for > depression) then how do we get to the higher dose when the BSE gets pretty > severe on the way there. I would love to have any info that I could show the > pdoc about this phenomena....if you know where I could find it online, or in > research, or in books, etc. > > Thanks again, kathy R. > > take care, > laurie in WI > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > PERFORM CPR ON YOUR APR! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > 1/2121/2/_/531051/_/953098008/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing > listserv@... . > In the body of your message write: > subscribe OCD-L your name. > The Archives and Links List for the OCD and > Parenting List may be accessed by going to > / . > Enter your email address and password. > Click on the highlighted list name and then click on message archives by month or links located in the toolbar. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2000 Report Share Posted March 15, 2000 Dear List, BSE's seem to be an issue that effect most of our children. We recently experienced a major onset of BSE's in our OCD'er, but, as our backs were figuratively against a wall, we "kept on keeping on" and stuck with the new medication, Depakote, and it has made a major difference thus far. As many of us have noted previously I hesitate to relate any news about success for fear of the concomitant reality check that so often follows. Our experience mirrors that of many who have stuck with a medication through tough times only to find that the initial resistance to the medication signalled a therapeutic outcome. Louis takes Zoloft, Buspar, Wellbutrin, and, now, Depakote. These medications have been effective to different degrees in improving his quality of life with Zoloft and Depakote seemingly having the best effect, but we continue with the other meds because of an awareness of their possible augmentative benefits. Take care. Louis harkins@... Re: Re: meds and BSEs From: Dana Carvalho <clayvon@...> My daughter, Ava, got Bse's on both Zoloft and Luvox and neither of her doctors mentioned that they might betemporary either so I took her off them, maybe too soon. She is taking Paxil now, which has helped with hermood/depression and somewhat with her OCD, but not that much. We're in the process of seeing a new doc and maybewe'll have better success with this one.Dana in NCSEnLE@... wrote:> From: SEnLE@...>> Dear Kathy R.,> I was very interested in your great post (not too long at all! btw) to> Terri about Evan taking zoloft and having his impulsivity increased etc.>> That has happened to my daughter (as I mentioned in a post to Terri too)> and we always ended up dropping her dose and/or changing meds. The> psychiatrist never talked about these BSEs being "temporary" like other side> effects might be. But I have always wondered about this because if, indeed,> the SSRIs need generally to be at higher doses for OCD (than say for> depression) then how do we get to the higher dose when the BSE gets pretty> severe on the way there. I would love to have any info that I could show the> pdoc about this phenomena....if you know where I could find it online, or in> research, or in books, etc.>> Thanks again, kathy R.>> take care,> laurie in WI>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------> PERFORM CPR ON YOUR APR!> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as> 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.> Apply NOW!> 1/2121/2/_/531051/_/953098008/> ------------------------------------------------------------------------>> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing> listserv@... .> In the body of your message write:> subscribe OCD-L your name.> The Archives and Links List for the OCD and> Parenting List may be accessed by going to> / .> Enter your email address and password.> Click on the highlighted list name and then click on message archives by month or links located in the toolbar. You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name.The Archives and Links List for the OCD andParenting List may be accessed by going to/ . Enter your email address and password. Click on the highlighted list name and then click on message archives by month or links located in the toolbar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2000 Report Share Posted March 15, 2000 Laurie: There is a very helpful book (out in paperback now) called Straight Talk About Psychiatric Medications for Kids -- E. Wilens. You might be able to get it at your local library or bookstore. Jule in Cleveland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 Hi Laurie and list, I wondered recently that since the SSRI's are newish and newly approved for use in children, there may not be much in the literature regarding BSEs, their duration, when or whether they can be expected to diminish, etc. This may account for the differing ideas of our kid's doctors--their opinions may be based mainly on their individual judgement and their clinical experiences. Based on our experience of three SSRI trials with our daughter, we didn't know much about their effects, or side effects, after only two weeks. No doubt BSEs and other SSRI side effects, like their positive anti-obsessional effects, are specific to the individual. Personally I would put up with more BSEs (depending on what, exactly, they were!!) if a particular drug did a wonderful job of diminishing OCD symptoms. Laurie, perhaps you can share the advice you receive from your psychopharmacologist on the BSE issue. Kathy R. in Indiana > From: SEnLE@... > > Dear Kathy R in Ind., Louis, and Jule in Cleveland > Thanks for all the responses on the SSRIs and the BSEs. Interestingly, we > saw 's psychiatrist last Thursday and posed the question to him too. He > doesn't feel BSEs should last more than 2 weeks (period!). He was really not > that interested in " learning " more about the info we have been finding out. > I guess that is why we are going for a psycho-pharmacology opinion at the U > of Wisc next week. and because now the paxil is back down to 20 mg becasue > of these BSE he added another med, anafranil. (that means she is on paxil, > trazadone, depakote, dexedrine, anafranil (and singulair for asthma)---this > seems crazy. > And I will be reviewing that book you recommended Jule (or was it Kathy R.) > on medications for children. I actually have that one----haven't looked at > in a while. > Thanks to all on the list, > Laurie in WI, mom to (13 with OCD, possible BP, ADHD) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 Hi: I asked Steve's psychiatrist about this at Steve's appointment last Saturday. He told me that psychopharmacologists/psychiatrists know from working with their patients, particularly kids, that many meds can have the effect of initially worsening symptoms for a condition they are trying to treat. It seems this is part of their clinical experience. Steve's psychiatrist was head of the UH Psychiatry department for about 30 years. There has been quite a bit of discussion on the OCD-L about titrating up slowly with liquid forms of SSRIs or splitting the pills. Paxil and Prozac both come in liquid form so this should be very possible to do. Take care, aloha, Kathy (H) kathyh@... At 06:23 PM 03/21/2000 -0500, you wrote: >From: " Kathy " <klr@...> > >Hi Laurie and list, I wondered recently that since the SSRI's are newish and >newly approved for use in children, there may not be much in the literature >regarding BSEs, their duration, when or whether they can be expected to >diminish, etc. This may account for the differing ideas of our kid's >doctors--their opinions may be based mainly on their individual judgement >and their clinical experiences. > >Based on our experience of three SSRI trials with our daughter, we didn't >know much about their effects, or side effects, after only two weeks. No >doubt BSEs and other SSRI side effects, like their positive anti-obsessional >effects, are specific to the individual. Personally I would put up with >more BSEs (depending on what, exactly, they were!!) if a particular drug did >a wonderful job of diminishing OCD symptoms. > >Laurie, perhaps you can share the advice you receive from your >psychopharmacologist on the BSE issue. > >Kathy R. in Indiana > >> From: SEnLE@... >> >> Dear Kathy R in Ind., Louis, and Jule in Cleveland >> Thanks for all the responses on the SSRIs and the BSEs. Interestingly, we >> saw 's psychiatrist last Thursday and posed the question to him too. >He >> doesn't feel BSEs should last more than 2 weeks (period!). He was really >not >> that interested in " learning " more about the info we have been finding >out. >> I guess that is why we are going for a psycho-pharmacology opinion at the >U >> of Wisc next week. and because now the paxil is back down to 20 mg >becasue >> of these BSE he added another med, anafranil. (that means she is on >paxil, >> trazadone, depakote, dexedrine, anafranil (and singulair for >asthma)---this >> seems crazy. >> And I will be reviewing that book you recommended Jule (or was it Kathy >R.) >> on medications for children. I actually have that one----haven't looked >at >> in a while. >> Thanks to all on the list, >> Laurie in WI, mom to (13 with OCD, possible BP, ADHD) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 In a message dated 00-03-21 22:21:03 EST, you write: << working with their patients, particularly kids, that many meds can have the effect of initially worsening symptoms for a condition they are trying to treat >> Kathy, Thanks for this info. Devon is struggling with an increase in intrusive thoughts. What is cool is that he isn't so locked in that he can't, at that moment, comment on how irritated he is with them. I think that bodes well for therapy. Speaking of which, we finally got the new list of approved providers from our insurance company. Devon sees his psych. on Friday and we will settle on whom to " go with " as well as get a scrip for stronger dosage of Paxil. Elaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2000 Report Share Posted March 22, 2000 BSE VS. OCD? Having lived and still living with both, I would rather she did the doorway cha-cha forever rather than have to live with her behavior. Once adorable fun-loving child now totally unpleasant full time, and nastiness coming out of her you wouldn't believe from a 12 year old (or actually this list would believe it). I think contamination OCD would be more difficult to deal with, but I would and could accept anything from her except this abuse I live with. Sorry all-- particularly bad night last night from both the little one and the big one (the one I married). Ellen in NY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2000 Report Share Posted March 22, 2000 > From: elan214@... > Sorry all-- particularly bad night last night from both the little one and > the big one (the one I married). (((hugs Ellen))) it's tough when they gang up on you like that! Next time maybe you should leave them to enjoy each other's company and take in a movie. Kathy R. in Indiana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2000 Report Share Posted March 22, 2000 thanks kathy-- i actually did just that (well I went to the mall) so very proud of myself for not losing it totally, but when I came home way late, they were up and waiting for me. And then insisted on pushing my buttons this morning about walking out last night. Pushed until i exploded. Which seems to make things better for awhile-- just takes alot out of me- but then everyone is nice to me for a while! Ellen in NY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2000 Report Share Posted March 23, 2000 HI Ellen: I am so sorry that you are suffering so much nastiness and abuse. This is so hard to take and I remember how it would upset and almost paralyze me. Please hang in there, it will get better, remember it is the OCD not the person and that takes a little of the sting out. BTW, I got a good chuckle out of your description, " doorway cha-cha " . In our house this could cause physical injury when we were following behind Steve and OCD caused him to back up into us without warning. We found that a professional parenting plan was needed to help lick this abuse. That combined with CBT to address the OCD really helped our family a lot. They are really embarrassed about the abuse but you can't tell by watching them as they act so justified in their indignation and heightened sense of injustice. Take care, aloha, Kathy (H) kathyh@... At 08:18 AM 03/22/2000 -0500, you wrote: >From: elan214@... > >BSE VS. OCD? >Having lived and still living with both, I would rather she did the doorway >cha-cha forever rather than have to live with her behavior. Once adorable >fun-loving child now totally unpleasant full time, and nastiness coming out >of her you wouldn't believe from a 12 year old (or actually this list would >believe it). > >I think contamination OCD would be more difficult to deal with, but I would >and could accept anything from her except this abuse I live with. > >Sorry all-- particularly bad night last night from both the little one and >the big one (the one I married). > >Ellen in NY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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