Re: theta uptraining

[Guest guest]

Hi Pete:

I have up trained theta in certain situations, with fair to good results.

One place is in alpha/theta up training. Pretty good for dissociative disorders and/or trauma cases. Posterior placements, although not across hemispheres for seizure patients or migraine suffers.

A recent use of training theta up at posterior locations is to help with people who have primary memory problems. Actually, I have used a PZ-FZ serial montage with some fairly good benefits. I realize that with the serial montage you are only getting the difference between the two locations. What probably takes place is both an increase in posterior theta and a possible decrease in anterior theta.

I asked Bob Thatcher what he thought could explain the improvement in primary memory (measured by a list learning task) and he speculated that it enabled the frontal cells to talk better to one another.

The third place I use theta up training is in cases where you have a low amplitude signal. You can see this a bit with the BrainMaster, but it shows up much better with a full EEG and one of the scoring programs.

I usually use 4-8 Hz. I know there are various people who find changing things as much as one hertz changes the training. I haven't been able to get this to work. although I believe Barry Sterman has talked of getting changes with one hertz variations.

Hope this is of some use.

Hal Schaus

[Guest guest]

Very interesting. A recent discussion on another list had people agreeing that there are no reliable protocols for primary memory. What inhibits do you use? - Marged Lindner

Re: theta uptraining

Hi Pete:I have up trained theta in certain situations, with fair to good results.One place is in alpha/theta up training. Pretty good for dissociative disorders and/or trauma cases. Posterior placements, although not across hemispheres for seizure patients or migraine suffers.A recent use of training theta up at posterior locations is to help with people who have primary memory problems. Actually, I have used a PZ-FZ serial montage with some fairly good benefits. I realize that with the serial montage you are only getting the difference between the two locations. What probably takes place is both an increase in posterior theta and a possible decrease in anterior theta.I asked Bob Thatcher what he thought could explain the improvement in primary memory (measured by a list learning task) and he speculated that it enabled the frontal cells to talk better to one another.The third place I use theta up training is in cases where you have a low amplitude signal. You can see this a bit with the BrainMaster, but it shows up much better with a full EEG and one of the scoring programs.I usually use 4-8 Hz. I know there are various people who find changing things as much as one hertz changes the training. I haven't been able to get this to work. although I believe Barry Sterman has talked of getting changes with one hertz variations.Hope this is of some use.Hal Schaus

[Guest guest]

Hal,

Thanks. That's very interesting.

One of the participants at a recent workshop spoke of using theta uptraining in the parietals as a way of breaking up excessive alpha back there. Any experience with that?

Pete

Van DeusenBrainTrainer ()16246 SW 92nd Ave, Miami, FL 33157305/321-1595

Re: theta uptraining

Hi Pete:I have up trained theta in certain situations, with fair to good results.One place is in alpha/theta up training. Pretty good for dissociative disorders and/or trauma cases. Posterior placements, although not across hemispheres for seizure patients or migraine suffers.A recent use of training theta up at posterior locations is to help with people who have primary memory problems. Actually, I have used a PZ-FZ serial montage with some fairly good benefits. I realize that with the serial montage you are only getting the difference between the two locations. What probably takes place is both an increase in posterior theta and a possible decrease in anterior theta.I asked Bob Thatcher what he thought could explain the improvement in primary memory (measured by a list learning task) and he speculated that it enabled the frontal cells to talk better to one another.The third place I use theta up training is in cases where you have a low amplitude signal. You can see this a bit with the BrainMaster, but it shows up much better with a full EEG and one of the scoring programs.I usually use 4-8 Hz. I know there are various people who find changing things as much as one hertz changes the training. I haven't been able to get this to work. although I believe Barry Sterman has talked of getting changes with one hertz variations.Hope this is of some use.Hal Schaus

[Guest guest]

Pete:

I have never tried breaking up alpha in parietals with theta-up training. If

Thatcher's findings that theta involves the hippocampus, it may help normalize

a lot more than has been looked at.

I know one of Margaret Ayers protocols for treating seizure conditions is

theta down training at T3-C3 and then an equal amount of time at T4-C4. I have

used this and pulled people out of some seizure activity. Why this works I don't

know.

My overall impression is that there is much more to the brain than we even

imagine.

I am trying to find a way to look at circuits, rather than specific location

points, but as of now I don't have a lot of answers. Serial montages just look

at the differences between two sites. The best I can do now is look at

coherence and synchrony.

Hope all is well on your end.

Hal

[Guest guest]

Hi Marge:

I don't usually use inhibits when doing theta up training. The exception is

if delta starts to increase I will do one of two things. One, if the delta

represents fatigue, I'll stop and let the person have a rest period. Two, if the

delta isn't fatigue related, I will do some delta down training.

I know that Margaret Ayers and Barry Sterman both regard delta as artifact,

but I disagree with this notion. In the conventional EEG literature, delta is

recognized as a very fundamental brain rhythm. Certain brain chemical/s are

thought to be related to different brain rhythms and I would have to dig it out,

but delta is associated with one of them.

Regards,

Hal Schaus

[Guest guest]

Hal,

I believe there are two sources for theta in the sub-cortical brain: hippocampal theta, which is releated to memory functions, is around 7 Hz. Lower theta is cortical response to rhythms from another area of the thalamus from that which produces the alpha rhythm.

Pete

Van DeusenBrainTrainer ()16246 SW 92nd Ave, Miami, FL 33157305/321-1595

Re: theta uptraining

Pete:I have never tried breaking up alpha in parietals with theta-up training. If Thatcher's findings that theta involves the hippocampus, it may help normalize a lot more than has been looked at.I know one of Margaret Ayers protocols for treating seizure conditions is theta down training at T3-C3 and then an equal amount of time at T4-C4. I have used this and pulled people out of some seizure activity. Why this works I don't know.My overall impression is that there is much more to the brain than we even imagine.I am trying to find a way to look at circuits, rather than specific location points, but as of now I don't have a lot of answers. Serial montages just look at the differences between two sites. The best I can do now is look at coherence and synchrony.Hope all is well on your end.Hal

[Guest guest]

Pete,

I'm just catching up with some old e-mails, so I've been a bit slow to

answer this one. I've used theta uptraining with interhemispheric protocols

like T3-T4, although that isn't really amplitude training as such.

The other instance in which I've used it is at Fz for people who have

problems with ruminating. I think Deckoff- came up with this one

.... Fz-A2, inhibiting 2-5 Hz and 14-30 Hz and rewarding 5-8 Hz. It seems to

work well, even within the session. Although who can say whether the theta

component is the vital aspect of this protocol. One would tend to think that

beta downtraining could play a key role.

Whatever, it seems to work.

Mark Darling