Re: Re: GSE as a preservative

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/1/02 6:15:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,

garden@... writes:

> Thanks for your input. I understand about the possible chemicals in

> GSE and that is why I did not use it last time altho I get it from

> FNWL and I believe they said it does not contain any. Also the e-wax

> I get from Rainbow Meadows is supposed to be safe too. I know what

> you mean about chemicals in everything but in order to make a cream I

> try to use as little as possible and what I make is certainly better

> and safer than what I would buy in a store. I am allergic to beeswax

> btw. Any ideas?

>

Hi Annette,

Sounds like you are trying to do all the " right stuff " ! The companies you

mention are certainly reputable and carry quality products. The whole GSE

debate has been going on for some time and I guess will likely continue. The

studies that Jules sited did reveal that the reason the GSE was effective at

controlling the microbes was because it had been adulterated with synthetic

preservatives. The effectiveness of the GSE on it's own was not

demonstrated. So with that info I would just put two and two together. GSE

along with thyme eo, oregano, tea tree, and others will show some

antimicrobial activity, but not enough for us to rely on for effectiveness in

a toiletries product. As Jules said, just because you don't see anything in

your product is no guarantee that it is not there--that's why they call them

microbes. Any professional will tell you that the only way to be sure that

nothing is growing in your product is to have it tested in a lab, which most

folks don't do. So the next best thing in my opinion is to use a synthetic

preservative that is broad-spectrum and that has been tested and tested and

proven to be effective and safe in different conditions, pH levels, etc. and

of course to use good manufacturing practices. I am not allergic to anything

that I know of, but still want to exclude what I call " unnecessaries " in my

bath and body products (as well as my food) and keep " undesirables but

necessaries " to a minimum. This is the reason that most of us like to make

our own products--so that we will know exactly what goes into it and can make

it just the way we want. Whether it is safer or not is up to how we make

it--an inadequately preserved product can be quite harmful. In answer to

your question about ewax, I would guess that it is fine for you to use.

Emulsifying wax is a generic term and the ingredients can vary, but they are

basically non-ionic ethoxylated fatty alcohols. I use Emulsifying Wax NF for

my lotions/creams and feel fine using it.

I think one point that Jules was making about chemicals is that everything in

this world is made up of atoms/elements/molecules. The air we breathe, our

bodies, the soil, etc. I think, too, that we can't assume that " natural " is

always " good " and " chemical " is always " bad " . For example the mold and

bacteria that will surely grow on our lunch if we leave it on the counter for

a week is natural, but not desirable. To me it has to do alot with " balance "

within ourselves and our world, but then that gets into another area

altogether!!

So, what can you do to make a product that best meets your needs? It sounds

like you don't have a negative reaction to the ewax, so I would be inclined

to stick with it. I personally would not choose to use the GSE because of

all the controversy and misinformation surrounding it. I would choose to use

one of the synthetic preservatives that have been tested extensively and that

make the research information on the preservative available to the public.

There are some other " natural " preservatives on the market that claim this

and that, but when I tried to find ANYTHING as far as research to document

the claims it was nowhere to be found. Another option for you may be to make

your own cream in small quantities, refrigerate it and use it for up to a few

days or a week---then toss the unused. That way you can make it without

preservative. I recommend this ONLY for your own use--do not share with

anyone else any product that is unpreserved.

Sorry this is long and perhaps rambling, but I hope it is helpful. Making

your own products is so much fun and I will be very happy to help with any

questions that I may be able to answer--just let me know.

Angie

The Herbarie...Visit us at:  http://www.theherbarie.com for Body Care

Products and Bulk Ingredients...Botanical Extracts and Proteins, Ultra-Mild

Surfactant Blends, Conditioning Emulsifiers.

[Guest guest]

landorganics,

Could the mold be enhanced by the fact that you also used Rose water and

Distilled water???? Both will speed the growth of bacteria and fungi.

Cate

[Guest guest]

I have heard good reports on Rosemary oil extract. Is it not as good

as touted?

Barb D.

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------

From: lt54@...

Reply-

Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 09:18:09 EST

>In a message dated 1/1/02 6:15:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,

>garden@... writes:

>

>

>> Thanks for your input. I understand about the possible chemicals in

>> GSE and that is why I did not use it last time altho I get it from

>> FNWL and I believe they said it does not contain any. Also the e-wax

>> I get from Rainbow Meadows is supposed to be safe too. I know what

>> you mean about chemicals in everything but in order to make a cream I

>> try to use as little as possible and what I make is certainly better

>> and safer than what I would buy in a store. I am allergic to beeswax

>> btw. Any ideas?

>>

>

>Hi Annette,

>Sounds like you are trying to do all the " right stuff " ! The companies you

>mention are certainly reputable and carry quality products. The whole GSE

>debate has been going on for some time and I guess will likely continue. The

>studies that Jules sited did reveal that the reason the GSE was effective at

>controlling the microbes was because it had been adulterated with synthetic

>preservatives. The effectiveness of the GSE on it's own was not

>demonstrated. So with that info I would just put two and two together. GSE

>along with thyme eo, oregano, tea tree, and others will show some

>antimicrobial activity, but not enough for us to rely on for effectiveness in

>a toiletries product. As Jules said, just because you don't see anything in

>your product is no guarantee that it is not there--that's why they call them

>microbes. Any professional will tell you that the only way to be sure that

>nothing is growing in your product is to have it tested in a lab, which most

>folks don't do. So the next best thing in my opinion is to use a synthetic

>preservative that is broad-spectrum and that has been tested and tested and

>proven to be effective and safe in different conditions, pH levels, etc. and

>of course to use good manufacturing practices. I am not allergic to anything

>that I know of, but still want to exclude what I call " unnecessaries " in my

>bath and body products (as well as my food) and keep " undesirables but

>necessaries " to a minimum. This is the reason that most of us like to make

>our own products--so that we will know exactly what goes into it and can make

>it just the way we want. Whether it is safer or not is up to how we make

>it--an inadequately preserved product can be quite harmful. In answer to

>your question about ewax, I would guess that it is fine for you to use.

>Emulsifying wax is a generic term and the ingredients can vary, but they are

>basically non-ionic ethoxylated fatty alcohols. I use Emulsifying Wax NF for

>my lotions/creams and feel fine using it.

>I think one point that Jules was making about chemicals is that everything in

>this world is made up of atoms/elements/molecules. The air we breathe, our

>bodies, the soil, etc. I think, too, that we can't assume that " natural " is

>always " good " and " chemical " is always " bad " . For example the mold and

>bacteria that will surely grow on our lunch if we leave it on the counter for

>a week is natural, but not desirable. To me it has to do alot with " balance "

>within ourselves and our world, but then that gets into another area

>altogether!!

>So, what can you do to make a product that best meets your needs? It sounds

>like you don't have a negative reaction to the ewax, so I would be inclined

>to stick with it. I personally would not choose to use the GSE because of

>all the controversy and misinformation surrounding it. I would choose to use

>one of the synthetic preservatives that have been tested extensively and that

>make the research information on the preservative available to the public.

>There are some other " natural " preservatives on the market that claim this

>and that, but when I tried to find ANYTHING as far as research to document

>the claims it was nowhere to be found. Another option for you may be to make

>your own cream in small quantities, refrigerate it and use it for up to a few

>days or a week---then toss the unused. That way you can make it without

>preservative. I recommend this ONLY for your own use--do not share with

>anyone else any product that is unpreserved.

>Sorry this is long and perhaps rambling, but I hope it is helpful. Making

>your own products is so much fun and I will be very happy to help with any

>questions that I may be able to answer--just let me know.

>

>Angie

>

>The Herbarie...Visit us at: http://www.theherbarie.com for Body Care

>Products and Bulk Ingredients...Botanical Extracts and Proteins, Ultra-Mild

>Surfactant Blends, Conditioning Emulsifiers.

>

>

>

>