Guest guest Posted April 22, 2001 Report Share Posted April 22, 2001 Vilik If RF is healthy and doing well on his meatless diet, then I would also like to know more. Have you actually seen him and can verify that he is " healthy " ? Is he robust, not underweight or enemic or sallow in appearance? I think that there IS adequate protein to be had from sources other than meat. However, there are other dietary elements that may be obtainable only from meat. I don't know what they are, but my own health improvements since leaving behind the various permutations of vegetarianism and including eating meat (mostly raw) is all I needed to convince me that theory is, indeed, fact. Corny On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 17:35:32 -0700 Vilik Rapheles <vilik@...> writes: > Here's an interesting story, especially given our list bias towards > meat. > > I know someone very prominant in the raw foods movement (whom I will > just call RF). RF healed self of a number of diseases on the raw > foods > diet, has a well-selling book out on it, teaches workshops, classes, > > etc. But RF continued to cleanse, and was getting weaker and weaker. > > Finally RF was advised by another wholistic healer to eat meat. RF > did, > and felt better. > > But RF is so philosophically committed to not eating meat...RF went > on the road and found a doctor/healer who worked with RF using > homeopathy and herbs...and ways to get protein without meat. > > RF wrote to me... " I am getting my protein from almonds, seeds, > legumes, > bell pollen and lots of greens including powdered wheat grass, > barley > grass, and chlorella. " > > Anyway, sounds like RF is doing great, and is full of energy again. > > This is interesting to me because, much as I enjoy meat and feel I > need it, I would love to not HAVE to eat it. I am in my heart of > hearts a vegeterian, I think.... > > ~^^V^^~ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2001 Report Share Posted April 22, 2001 Just overheard on a health discussion on tv that a daily diet composed of 30% legumes over a period of 3 months or more can be unhealthy and disrupt enzyme production and in some cases can case paralysis of the legs. Don't know how much merit there is to that but thought I'd throw it out there and maybe someone will have some comments about it. Legumes are, in fact, fruit and I imagine that it could be detrimental to eat too many especially if one does consume lots of fruit etc...? Deanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2001 Report Share Posted April 23, 2001 In the process of reading about enzymes I read a short bit of information that said if you do not have adequate protein, or if you do not well digest the protein you do eat that you will become hypoglycemic and if that is not corrected the next stage is low thyroid. I thought I was reading my diary. First I was a vegetarian, then a hypoglcemic and then I had low thyroid. Fortunately I was healed of both with prayer. Wish everything went away first time everytime with prayer. Smile. I would hesitate to go vegetarian again because I supposedly did it right the first time and it did not take me to good places. And, according to eat right or your blood type, I am supposed to be vegetarian. Hum? Donna Re: Protein without meat Vilik If RF is healthy and doing well on his meatless diet, then I would also like to know more. Have you actually seen him and can verify that he is " healthy " ? Is he robust, not underweight or enemic or sallow in appearance? I think that there IS adequate protein to be had from sources other than meat. However, there are other dietary elements that may be obtainable only from meat. I don't know what they are, but my own health improvements since leaving behind the various permutations of vegetarianism and including eating meat (mostly raw) is all I needed to convince me that theory is, indeed, fact. Corny On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 17:35:32 -0700 Vilik Rapheles <vilik@...> writes: > Here's an interesting story, especially given our list bias towards > meat. > > I know someone very prominant in the raw foods movement (whom I will > just call RF). RF healed self of a number of diseases on the raw > foods > diet, has a well-selling book out on it, teaches workshops, classes, > > etc. But RF continued to cleanse, and was getting weaker and weaker. > > Finally RF was advised by another wholistic healer to eat meat. RF > did, > and felt better. > > But RF is so philosophically committed to not eating meat...RF went > on the road and found a doctor/healer who worked with RF using > homeopathy and herbs...and ways to get protein without meat. > > RF wrote to me... " I am getting my protein from almonds, seeds, > legumes, > bell pollen and lots of greens including powdered wheat grass, > barley > grass, and chlorella. " > > Anyway, sounds like RF is doing great, and is full of energy again. > > This is interesting to me because, much as I enjoy meat and feel I > need it, I would love to not HAVE to eat it. I am in my heart of > hearts a vegeterian, I think.... > > ~^^V^^~ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2001 Report Share Posted April 23, 2001 Donna, Have you ever done a metabolic profile for yourself? I am thinking this may be why you need so much protein? Both of my kids and I are of the type that need a lot of protein and have had issues with our blood sugar, just like you described, when we didn't get enough. As usual, I don't remember the specifics (brain fog), but I know there are a few books out on metaboilism and diet. If you happen to run accross one I'd love to hear about what you found out. Donna wrote: > In the process of reading about enzymes I read a short bit of information that said if you do not have adequate protein, or if you do not well digest the protein you do eat that you will become hypoglycemic and if that is not corrected the next stage is low thyroid. > > I thought I was reading my diary. First I was a vegetarian, then a hypoglcemic and then I had low thyroid. Fortunately I was healed of both with prayer. Wish everything went away first time everytime with prayer. Smile. > > I would hesitate to go vegetarian again because I supposedly did it right the first time and it did not take me to good places. And, according to eat right or your blood type, I am supposed to be vegetarian. Hum? > > Donna > Re: Protein without meat > > > Vilik > If RF is healthy and doing well on his meatless diet, then I would also > like to know more. Have you actually seen him and can verify that he is > " healthy " ? Is he robust, not underweight or enemic or sallow in > appearance? > > I think that there IS adequate protein to be had from sources other than > meat. However, there are other dietary elements that may be obtainable > only from meat. I don't know what they are, but my own health > improvements since leaving behind the various permutations of > vegetarianism and including eating meat (mostly raw) is all I needed to > convince me that theory is, indeed, fact. > > Corny > > > > On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 17:35:32 -0700 Vilik Rapheles <vilik@...> > writes: > > Here's an interesting story, especially given our list bias towards > > meat. > > > > I know someone very prominant in the raw foods movement (whom I will > > just call RF). RF healed self of a number of diseases on the raw > > foods > > diet, has a well-selling book out on it, teaches workshops, classes, > > > > etc. But RF continued to cleanse, and was getting weaker and weaker. > > > > Finally RF was advised by another wholistic healer to eat meat. RF > > did, > > and felt better. > > > > But RF is so philosophically committed to not eating meat...RF went > > on the road and found a doctor/healer who worked with RF using > > homeopathy and herbs...and ways to get protein without meat. > > > > RF wrote to me... " I am getting my protein from almonds, seeds, > > legumes, > > bell pollen and lots of greens including powdered wheat grass, > > barley > > grass, and chlorella. " > > > > Anyway, sounds like RF is doing great, and is full of energy again. > > > > This is interesting to me because, much as I enjoy meat and feel I > > need it, I would love to not HAVE to eat it. I am in my heart of > > hearts a vegeterian, I think.... > > > > ~^^V^^~ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 Dear Deanna, Legumes are actually not truly a part of the fruit family. They must be soaked and sprouted even if to be consumed as their are digestive inhibitors which occur naturally to protect them from insect invaders. Eating them cooked, (or anything cooked for that matter), is most definitely detrimental to the body and I personally would not recommend it. All my Love and good eating!!! Wishing you the very best of everything in Life... With you always in Love and Truth, Brandauer energytoawaken@... " Only the ego can be enlightened, the Truth that You Are can never be Unenlightened " -know You Are pure- > > >Just overheard on a health discussion on tv that a daily diet composed of >30% >legumes over a period of 3 months or more can be unhealthy and disrupt >enzyme >production and in some cases can case paralysis of the legs. Don't know >how >much merit there is to that but thought I'd throw it out there and maybe >someone will have some comments about it. >Legumes are, in fact, fruit and I imagine that it could be detrimental to >eat >too many especially if one does consume lots of fruit etc...? > >Deanna Wishing you the very best of everything in Life... With you always in Love and Truth, energytoawaken@... " Only the ego can be enlightened, the Truth that You Are can never be Unenlightened " -know You Are pure- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 michael. check out dr. newbold's books on meat-- some very excellent and insightful information. he was very well versed with dr. price's work and took into into actual practice. the price pottenger foundation has a cookbook called nourishing traditions which might be of great value to you as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 I'd just like to add my weight to the discussion coming very much from the same angle as Donna. About 7 years ago, I'd say I was pretty healthy. No problems to speak of. Mentally and physically strong. I'd work out at the gym 5 nights a week. Soccer (for you crazy Yanks - Football for us Brits!) at weekends. Good muscle structure, skin tone, shiny hair, etc. Ran my own software company. Then I went vegetarian - primarily from a moral perspective. Since then, I've spent the last 6 years in gradual deterioration. So slow that I guess I didn't really notice it but very definite. And before any vegetarians start telling me I should do this or eat that - I did it all by the book. I spent most of my spare time reading and researching diet and nutrition. I'd be soaking and sprouting everything. Juicing, chewing, fasting, detoxing, raw, done it all - tried it all. Making all of my own 'healthy' concoctions. Became a real regular 'fun guy'!! :-) At the end of the day my reward for 'dedicating my life', literally, to this regime, like so many other semi-zealots was ill health. Physically, I became thin and pale. My hair was dull, dry and lifeless - I guess just like my personality too had become! I was weak and had no stamina. My mental acruity was a mess. Sure, I thought I was 'pure' and 'spiritual', that the floating feeling was a kind of awakening and that the 'highs' from juicing, carbs and fruits was real energy. In reality, I think it had more to do with multiple deficiencies and blood sugar problems! I've ended up, like Donna, with hypoglycemia, CFS, thyroid problems, adrenal problems, all manner of digestive and allergy problems. And that's just for starters. Mentally, and spiritually I felt weak and vulnerable. I had lost my 'guts', my inner strength and confidence. I found myself being easily pushed around and dictated to by vultures circuling their weak and dying prey. But at least I was 'spiritually pure'! Yeah right! Fortunately, again like Donna, I've spent the last year beginning to put things right and am getting back to where I used to be. I hope I manage to at least regain the health I once had, I'm not sure I will. But, certainly, I'd recommend anyone thinking of vegetarianism to do some very serious and open-minded thinking and research before they jump on the bandwagon. In my opinion, long term, when the initial detox benefits are over, it is headed for very troubled times. I would love to be able to live as a vegetarian but have to accept the fact that, at least in our current place in evolution, it is not heathy. Again, in my opinion, forget ER4YT and all the other new-founded diet religions. Humans require certain things that they can't obtain in a strict vegetarian diet, whether science has currently pinpointed them all chemically or not. The healthiest and most long-lived cultures have always included at least a little meat in their diets. And dairy too - lots of it. (though it was raw and not the pasteurised, homogenised, chemically filled crap we are now served!!) I cannot recommend highly enough that people check out the work of Weston A. Price, particularly his book 'Nutrition and Physical Degeneration'. The Price foundation at www.westonaprice.org have details or the PricePottenger foundation recommended earlier in this thread. For me, it comes down to what would I eat if I had to live in the wild without supermarkets and all of our modern conveniences. Would I have a GreenPower juicer, a dehydrator ? Could I realistically spend the day picking fruit and nuts, soaking and grinding them all into a palatable meal ? Could I grow and gather sunflower seeds or enough seaweed ? Am I near water for fish or seaweed anyhow ? Even if I could do all of that - would I thrive on it well enough to survive the challenges nature would thrust upon me or would I be gobbled up by a less thoughtful but more instinctive and naturally intuitive animal !? As my little girl's Lion King video I was watching with her the other day says, 'It's the Circle of Life'. :-) I guess man has survived largely because of his adaptability. Those sharp teeth can crunch apples AND tear meat. Natural wholefood, be it meat, fish, eggs, veg, fruit, small amount of grain. We've lived on it for millennia. In the last 100 years there has been more radical changes in our diet than in the last few million! Modern man's convenience food. The processed rubbish. The sugar. Not to mention the pesticides, additives, GM, and the rest. These are where the problems lie!! In my humble opinion anyway! (a 6 year reverted vegetarian!) Re: Protein without meat Vilik If RF is healthy and doing well on his meatless diet, then I would also like to know more. Have you actually seen him and can verify that he is " healthy " ? Is he robust, not underweight or enemic or sallow in appearance? I think that there IS adequate protein to be had from sources other than meat. However, there are other dietary elements that may be obtainable only from meat. I don't know what they are, but my own health improvements since leaving behind the various permutations of vegetarianism and including eating meat (mostly raw) is all I needed to convince me that theory is, indeed, fact. Corny On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 17:35:32 -0700 Vilik Rapheles <vilik@...> writes: > Here's an interesting story, especially given our list bias towards > meat. > > I know someone very prominant in the raw foods movement (whom I will > just call RF). RF healed self of a number of diseases on the raw > foods > diet, has a well-selling book out on it, teaches workshops, classes, > > etc. But RF continued to cleanse, and was getting weaker and weaker. > > Finally RF was advised by another wholistic healer to eat meat. RF > did, > and felt better. > > But RF is so philosophically committed to not eating meat...RF went > on the road and found a doctor/healer who worked with RF using > homeopathy and herbs...and ways to get protein without meat. > > RF wrote to me... " I am getting my protein from almonds, seeds, > legumes, > bell pollen and lots of greens including powdered wheat grass, > barley > grass, and chlorella. " > > Anyway, sounds like RF is doing great, and is full of energy again. > > This is interesting to me because, much as I enjoy meat and feel I > need it, I would love to not HAVE to eat it. I am in my heart of > hearts a vegeterian, I think.... > > ~^^V^^~ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 I'd just like to add my weight to the discussion coming very much from the same angle as Donna. About 7 years ago, I'd say I was pretty healthy. No problems to speak of. Mentally and physically strong. I'd work out at the gym 5 nights a week. Soccer (for you crazy Yanks - Football for us Brits!) at weekends. Good muscle structure, skin tone, shiny hair, etc. Ran my own software company. Then I went vegetarian - primarily from a moral perspective. Since then, I've spent the last 6 years in gradual deterioration. So slow that I guess I didn't really notice it but very definite. And before any vegetarians start telling me I should do this or eat that - I did it all by the book. I spent most of my spare time reading and researching diet and nutrition. I'd be soaking and sprouting everything. Juicing, chewing, fasting, detoxing, raw, done it all - tried it all. Making all of my own 'healthy' concoctions. Became a real regular 'fun guy'!! :-) At the end of the day my reward for 'dedicating my life', literally, to this regime, like so many other semi-zealots was ill health. Physically, I became thin and pale. My hair was dull, dry and lifeless - I guess just like my personality too had become! I was weak and had no stamina. My mental acruity was a mess. Sure, I thought I was 'pure' and 'spiritual', that the floating feeling was a kind of awakening and that the 'highs' from juicing, carbs and fruits was real energy. In reality, I think it had more to do with multiple deficiencies and blood sugar problems! I've ended up, like Donna, with hypoglycemia, CFS, thyroid problems, adrenal problems, all manner of digestive and allergy problems. And that's just for starters. Mentally, and spiritually I felt weak and vulnerable. I had lost my 'guts', my inner strength and confidence. I found myself being easily pushed around and dictated to by vultures circuling their weak and dying prey. But at least I was 'spiritually pure'! Yeah right! Fortunately, again like Donna, I've spent the last year beginning to put things right and am getting back to where I used to be. I hope I manage to at least regain the health I once had, I'm not sure I will. But, certainly, I'd recommend anyone thinking of vegetarianism to do some very serious and open-minded thinking and research before they jump on the bandwagon. In my opinion, long term, when the initial detox benefits are over, it is headed for very troubled times. I would love to be able to live as a vegetarian but have to accept the fact that, at least in our current place in evolution, it is not heathy. Again, in my opinion, forget ER4YT and all the other new-founded diet religions. Humans require certain things that they can't obtain in a strict vegetarian diet, whether science has currently pinpointed them all chemically or not. The healthiest and most long-lived cultures have always included at least a little meat in their diets. And dairy too - lots of it. (though it was raw and not the pasteurised, homogenised, chemically filled crap we are now served!!) I cannot recommend highly enough that people check out the work of Weston A. Price, particularly his book 'Nutrition and Physical Degeneration'. The Price foundation at www.westonaprice.org have details or the PricePottenger foundation recommended earlier in this thread. For me, it comes down to what would I eat if I had to live in the wild without supermarkets and all of our modern conveniences. Would I have a GreenPower juicer, a dehydrator ? Could I realistically spend the day picking fruit and nuts, soaking and grinding them all into a palatable meal ? Could I grow and gather sunflower seeds or enough seaweed ? Am I near water for fish or seaweed anyhow ? Even if I could do all of that - would I thrive on it well enough to survive the challenges nature would thrust upon me or would I be gobbled up by a less thoughtful but more instinctive and naturally intuitive animal !? As my little girl's Lion King video I was watching with her the other day says, 'It's the Circle of Life'. :-) I guess man has survived largely because of his adaptability. Those sharp teeth can crunch apples AND tear meat. Natural wholefood, be it meat, fish, eggs, veg, fruit, small amount of grain. We've lived on it for millennia. In the last 100 years there has been more radical changes in our diet than in the last few million! Modern man's convenience food. The processed rubbish. The sugar. Not to mention the pesticides, additives, GM, and the rest. These are where the problems lie!! In my humble opinion anyway! (a 6 year reverted vegetarian!) Re: Protein without meat Vilik If RF is healthy and doing well on his meatless diet, then I would also like to know more. Have you actually seen him and can verify that he is " healthy " ? Is he robust, not underweight or enemic or sallow in appearance? I think that there IS adequate protein to be had from sources other than meat. However, there are other dietary elements that may be obtainable only from meat. I don't know what they are, but my own health improvements since leaving behind the various permutations of vegetarianism and including eating meat (mostly raw) is all I needed to convince me that theory is, indeed, fact. Corny On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 17:35:32 -0700 Vilik Rapheles <vilik@...> writes: > Here's an interesting story, especially given our list bias towards > meat. > > I know someone very prominant in the raw foods movement (whom I will > just call RF). RF healed self of a number of diseases on the raw > foods > diet, has a well-selling book out on it, teaches workshops, classes, > > etc. But RF continued to cleanse, and was getting weaker and weaker. > > Finally RF was advised by another wholistic healer to eat meat. RF > did, > and felt better. > > But RF is so philosophically committed to not eating meat...RF went > on the road and found a doctor/healer who worked with RF using > homeopathy and herbs...and ways to get protein without meat. > > RF wrote to me... " I am getting my protein from almonds, seeds, > legumes, > bell pollen and lots of greens including powdered wheat grass, > barley > grass, and chlorella. " > > Anyway, sounds like RF is doing great, and is full of energy again. > > This is interesting to me because, much as I enjoy meat and feel I > need it, I would love to not HAVE to eat it. I am in my heart of > hearts a vegeterian, I think.... > > ~^^V^^~ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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