Thuja occidentalis (Cedar Leaf)

[Guest guest]

Hi , other good folks ..

Been a while since I checked digests .. lots of fun things going down

here in Turkey now .. ;-p But today I did and when I scanned over your

comment that one should never use Thuja I felt a need to post.

I don't sell Cedar Leaf EO .... so I'm not pushing it. And there is a

need for knowledgeable and responsible use of this oil .. as is the case

with all EOs - to include Lavenders and Tea Tree, which have picked up

an erronous reputation as being safe when used neat. It's my opinion

that to say any EO should never be used is not doing anybody any favors

- nor is saying that neat use of Tea Tree and/or the Lavenders is safe.

In the absence of information (not unusual in aromatherapy) one should

always err on the side of safety ... that is not a problem. The problem

is dealing with the Boogie Men that have been created by many writers

and carried forward by readers and other writers. It's these Boogie Men

that help to keep aromatherapy at the level of a cottage-industry.

> If you are talking about Thuja occidentalis (cedar leaf), you should

> never use it! it is considerd to dangerous because it's highly toxic,

> promote miscarrriage, epileptic-type fits, serious damage to the skin

> and is highly toxic! The same goes for Thuja Plicata. Use essential oil

> of tea tree, use neat directly on the wart, put a bandaid over it and

> keep it covered. Repeat every day until the wart is gone. Some

> dissapear in less than a week, and others take a month or so. Once the

> wart is gone put a couple drop of essential oil of lavender (Lavendula

> officinalis) in a teaspoon base oil and massage onto it until soreness

> is gone.

I think there is need for concern when using Cedar Leaf ... gotta ensure

we clearly define the difference twixt Safe Use and Irresponsible Abuse,

but the writers prefer to avoid this so they tell us about Boogie Men.

Many oils have picked up undeserved reputations for contraindications

that are not supportable - they are purely rumor and are often based on

extrapolation of known effects of isolated chemical components .. not

the same as what we can expect from the synergy of the WHOLE EO.

RESPONSIBLE use of these oils is the key .. IRRESPONSIBLE use causes

problems but even then the problems are often different from the

reported rumors - with the exception of ingestion of oral toxins -

poisoning is poisoning.

A couple of EO that have picked up unfounded bad reputations are

Rosemary and Pennyroyal. Irresponsible tales of Rosemary causing high

blood pressure and bringing on seizures, and Pennyroyal being an

abortifacient. There's no support for either of these - please prove me

wrong y'all. ;-p

On Rosemary, I have challenged folks to show me support for these

rumors.

This challenge has been posed to many AT lists - to include Idma - for

many years - so far, no support has been provided. However, I can show

testimonials and even research data to the contrary.

On Pennyroyal being an abortificient .. it's just not true - it is an

emmenagogue .. and an ORAL TOXIN ... but not an abortifacient any more

than any other essential oil. A mother can poison herself by ingesting

the oil and that might harm a fetus ... might not too ... the fetus

might survive even if the mother doesn't. But use of Pennyroyal is not

going to cause an abortion by accident - it has to be a conscious act -

as is the case with a 9MM round to the brain pan. Responsible use and

not drinking the stuff will preclude toxicity. Pennyroyal has been

tested as safe (no irritation or sensitization) at a 6% dilution .. the

dangerous chemical component .. d-pulegone .. doesn't penetrate the skin

well so we are talking safe use in avoiding irritation and sensitization

when we talk 6% - we're not even approaching dermal absorption as a

potential hazard. How did Pennyroyal get a bad reputation? It was

helped a lot by folks putting out bad information in AT novels and young

dumb girls with unwanted pregnancies trying it and poisoning themselves

.... :-(

If I am challenged on the above two off-subject paragraphs it will give

me a chance to more fully support what I've written ... ;-p

Back to the subject - Cedar Leaf.

A 4% solution caused no irritation or sensitization on humans .. Kligman

1973, Report to the R.I.F.M. (From Watt's " Plant Aromatics. " )

This is not to say that 6% would be unsafe - it's saying that there has

been no properly conducted, scientific, peer-reviewed tests using the

oil at a dilution higher than 4% .... it also should clue one who is

making preparations for the skin that they're putting their butt out in

the cold if they exceed this dilution and later find themselves on the

short end of a lawsuit. America is sorta litigation orientated .. :-(

Cedar Leaf is an Oral Toxin ... this is one of the two things that gives

it a bad reputation .. so we don't drink the oil .... ;-p According to

extrapolated LD50 tests, the lethal dosage for a 3 year old child is 10

ml but I defy anyone to get past the first coupl of ml without throwing

it up .... the lethal dose for Pennyroyal is but 3 ml ... and there is

at least one case of a child having died from ingesting Pennyroyal.

The other reason Cedar Leaf has an unjustified bad reputation is the

high thujone content. Cedar Leaf gets up to as high as 60% of this

ketone. Granted, we can abuse this oil - and others - and it is

possible to go into convulsions and cause harm to a mother if we get

above the safe range for toxicity and possibly cause some minor problems

with extremely high dermal application. We can say that harm to a

mother is harm to a fetus but we would not necessarily be correct in

saying that and we could cause a lot of unnecessary worry and guilt to a

mother who was unfortunate enough to have used an oil and then had a

miscarriage due to Mama Nature doing her thing. I steal stew over some

knuckleheads on another list suggesting to a young grieving lady who had

a miscarriage that it could have been caused by the Pennyroyal in some

soap she used ... ;-( That is not only stupid but also heartless and

such folks should be chastised by everyone! Maybe that incident has

sensitized me to bad info on EOs. Toxicity is the issue when we talk of

harm to a mother or fetus and it doesn't happen with soap containing

Pennyroyal - you gotta drink it.

I'm not gonna go into use of EOs during pregnancy now - but I will say

that it is a subject that has wrapped up many a list and generally, the

results of those discussions are cloudy - at best .... so it is safe to

say that pregnant ladies should consult their doctor afore using any EO.

I hate to make this comment but it is prudent to do so.

The potential harmful effects of all EO are the same - some more or less

than others - irritation, sensitization, photo-sensitization and

toxicity. We don't ingest some oils - simple as that. Some we don't

apply dermally and then expose our skin to the sun. Some we can use for

dermal applications as high as 16% - Lavender being one of these ..

others we can't safely use in dilutions higher than 4% - Cedar Leaf

being one of these. ALL of these percentages can be blown with frequent

use .. these figures are not based on frequency - or on continuous use

of an EO.

The beneficial effects of Cedar Leaf far outweigh the hazards IF the

user is informed and uses the oil in a responsible manner. This is true

for ALL essential oils - to include Tea Tree and Lavenders and I think

we must be careful when giving advice on EO because tales of Boogie Men

do end-users of EO and the misinformed cottage-industry of aromatherapy

no favors - the Boogie Men just continue to perpetuate the many rumors,

misinformation/disinformation and tales of horror carried forward from

AT novel to AT novel because writers don't seek recent research or they

cower from fear of litigation ... they regurgitate the previously

published, unreferenced novels containing misinformation on EOs.

I'm convinced that most folks who use EOs avoid sensitization because

they're lucky .. few can quote or even know where to find the studies on

safe levels of dilution. There are folks who have become sensitized to

the so-called safe oils - there's a knowledgable lady on this list who

is sensitized to Lavender and the Aussies have lists of folks who are

now sensitized to Tea Tree. More bad news is that often people avoid

beneficial oils due to fear of the Boogie Men but use other oils that

are allegedly safe .. in an unsafe manner. Somewhere along the line we

MUST start telling it like it is - folks have to start believing that

ALL essential oils are potentially hazardous if abused and safe if used

in a responsible manner by knowledgeable folks - they have to learn how

to identify a Boogie Man when they see one. They have to start doing

some research, or purchase properly referenced publications that will

show them the facts and dispell the rumors. Anyone who decides to take

responsibility for their own health has to start by making informed

decisions ... swallowing information contained in unreferenced novels

written by those who copied previously published unreferenced novels

does nothing to help folks make informed decisions.

Having said this, though Cedar Leaf will work on warts .. generally ..

I would not use it. I'd use Oregano and I would not use it neat.

Essential oils are medicine .. folks in aromatherapy avoid saying such

things .. have to walk on eggshells they do .. but the fact remains that

it is true and we have to use just as much caution with EO as we do if

we are taking a prescription or OTC medication. If we wanna self

medicate and that's really what AT is all about, then we gotta become

informed and be responsible enough to disregard rumors, research facts

and learn how to identify the Boogie Men. This is my opinion and I have

no problem with folks disagreeing .... but if anybody wants to disagree

with my opinions on Rosemary and Pennyroyal, they oughta do their

homework first .. ;-p

Y'all keep smiling, Butch http://www.AV-AT.com

Bulk/Wholesale/Retail GC Tested EO, Rose Otto, Hydrosols and other

goodies shipped from beautiful downtown Friendsville, MD .. pop: 600

> On Wed, 24 Oct 2001 05:12:42 -0500, wrote:

>

> > It is the best thing I have found for yeast infections. I think it works

> > better (and is a heck of a lot cheaper) than those expensive creams. I

> must

> > confess I tried using it on a wart, but it didn't really do much (still

> > can't figure out why....Marge?) Then I did some research and found that

> > cedar leaf (thuja?) works miracles!

> >

> > > Tea tree is effective for fungus. I have a medical

> > > study somewhere in my files

[Guest guest]

Hi Butch:

Glad to hear from you! :-) I researched the use of essential oils for warts

after the salicylic acid medications did absolutely nothing except look

disgusting and deplete my pocketbook. The tea tree oil which I adore for

every other type of skin problem did nothing to the wart, unfortunately.

Several books recommended using cedar leaf oil (neat, I might add) on the

wart until gone. I began using it and by the end of the first week I had

noticed a dramatic improvement. By the end of a month, there was no sign of

it, just smooth, clear skin.

As you said, it is not to be handled irresponsibly, and I am not prescribing

it's use. I am merely relating my personal experience with it, but I also

want to add that I did not have a miscarriage, an epileptic seizure nor did

my thumb mutate into a life form of its own! ;-)

Cat

> Been a while since I checked digests .. lots of fun things going down

> here in Turkey now .. ;-p But today I did and when I scanned over your

> comment that one should never use Thuja I felt a need to post.

(edited for brevity)

[Guest guest]

When you not the contraindications of essential oils it is no different than

those of synthetic drugs. Just because something says it CAN cause these

side effects doesn't mean YOU will have that reaction.

Let's say your medical doctor prescribed you a drug and the side effects

were possible seizures, skin damage, headache, and fatigue. And stated -Do

not take while pregnant. Would you chose to take it? Even if you were

pregnant?

It is not wise to take emmenogogues while pregnant. It is not wise to use

oils that have serious contraindications no more than it is wise to take

synthetic prescription drugs with serious contraindications.

aromatherpist

graduate of the Australasian College of Herbal Studies

www.herbed.com

On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 23:14:12 -0500, wrote:

> Hi Butch:

> Glad to hear from you! :-) I researched the use of essential oils for

warts

> after the salicylic acid medications did absolutely nothing except look

> disgusting and deplete my pocketbook. The tea tree oil which I adore for

> every other type of skin problem did nothing to the wart, unfortunately.

> Several books recommended using cedar leaf oil (neat, I might add) on the

> wart until gone. I began using it and by the end of the first week I had

> noticed a dramatic improvement. By the end of a month, there was no sign

of

> it, just smooth, clear skin.

> As you said, it is not to be handled irresponsibly, and I am not

prescribing

> it's use. I am merely relating my personal experience with it, but I

also

> want to add that I did not have a miscarriage, an epileptic seizure nor

did

> my thumb mutate into a life form of its own! ;-)

> Cat

>

> > Been a while since I checked digests .. lots of fun things going down

> > here in Turkey now .. ;-p But today I did and when I scanned over your

> > comment that one should never use Thuja I felt a need to post.

> (edited for brevity)

>

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