Re: support for MMR families

[Guest guest]

Hi Jacqui

Am just thinking about your suggestion of setting up a petition to

re-instate the legal aid. I think re-instating the legal aid may be

a matter for the justice (or in this case, injustice) system and

therefore not something that will be altered by means of a petition,

since the justice system cant respond to petitions, which are meant

to influence the political/democratic process.

However, there is nothing to stop us setting up a petition to lobby

the government to make public the data relating to the safety trials

on MMR that were undertaken prior to its introduction and also

asking the govt to ensure that the Department of Health is mandated

to investigate the bowel, immune system and related health problems

suffered by the children whose families maintain that their child's

autism was triggered by the MMR vaccination....

.......or something like that....something that will go to the heart

of the issue and support the MMR families.....any more ideas on this?

And yes we could certainly e mail Downing St - would we want to do

it in a way that didnt just result in a stock response being issued

to all of us.....make them spend lots of time answering e mails?

Good ideas Jacqui - lets see what other people think as well?

Zoe x

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The Government is also considering flu jabs for under-twos -

> not

> > > to protect

> > > > the children, but adults they may infect

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > A former Government medical officer responsible for

deciding

> > > whether

> > > > medicines are safe has accused the Government of " utterly

> > > inexplicable complacency "

> > > > over the MMR triple vaccine for children.

> > > > Dr Fletcher, who was Chief Scientific Officer at the

> > > Department of

> > > > Health, said if it is proven that the jab causes

autism, " the

> > > refusal by

> > > > governments to evaluate the risks properly will make this

one

> of

> > > the greatest

> > > > scandals in medical history " .

> > > > He added that after agreeing to be an expert witness on drug-

> > > safety trials

> > > > for parents' lawyers, he had received and studied thousands

of

> > > documents

> > > > relating to the case which he believed the public had a

right

> to

> > > see.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > He said he has seen a " steady accumulation of evidence " from

> > > scientists

> > > > worldwide that the measles, mumps and rubella jab is causing

> > brain

> > > damage in

> > > > certain children.

> > > > But he added: " There are very powerful people in positions

of

> > > great authority

> > > > in Britain and elsewhere who have staked their reputations

> and

> > > careers on

> > > > the safety of MMR and they are willing to do almost

anything

> to

> > > protect

> > > > themselves. "

> > > > His warning follows reports that the Government is this week

> > > planning to

> > > > announce the addition of a jab against pneumococcal

meningitis

> > for

> > > babies,

> > > > probably from next April. It is also considering flu jabs

for

> > > under-twos - not to

> > > > protect the children, but adults they may infect.

> > > > In the late Seventies, Dr Fletcher served as Chief

Scientific

> > > Officer at the

> > > > DoH and Medical Assessor to the Committee on Safety of

> > Medicines,

> > > meaning he

> > > > was responsible for deciding if new vaccines were safe.

> > > > He first expressed concerns about MMR in 2001, saying safety

> > > trials before

> > > > the vaccine's introduction in Britain were inadequate.

> > > > Now he says the theoretical fears he raised appear to be

> > becoming

> > > reality.

> > > > He said the rising tide of autism cases and growing

scientific

> > > understanding

> > > > of autism-related bowel disease have convinced him the MMR

> > vaccine

> > > may be to

> > > > blame.

> > > > " Clinical and scientific data is steadily accumulating that

> the

> > > live measles

> > > > virus in MMR can cause brain, gut and immune system damage

in

> a

> > > subset of

> > > > vulnerable children, " he said. " There's no one conclusive

> piece

> > of

> > > scientific

> > > > evidence, no 'smoking gun', because there very rarely is

when

> > > adverse drug

> > > > reactions are first suspected. When vaccine damage in very

> young

> > > children is

> > > > involved, it is harder to prove the links.

> > > > " But it is the steady accumulation of evidence, from a

number

> of

> > > respected

> > > > universities, teaching hospitals and laboratories around the

> > > world, that

> > > > matters here. There's far too much to ignore. Yet

government

> > > health authorities

> > > > are, it seems, more than happy to do so. "

> > > > 'Why isn't the Government taking this massive public health

> > > problem more

> > > > seriously?'

> > > > Dr Fletcher said he found " this official complacency utterly

> > > inexplicable " in

> > > > the light of an explosive worldwide increase in regressive

> > autism

> > > and

> > > > inflammatory bowel disease in children, which was first

linked

> > to

> > > the live measles

> > > > virus in the MMR jab by clinical researcher Dr

> Wakefield

> > in

> > > 1998.

> > > > " When scientists first raised fears of a possible link

between

> > mad

> > > cow

> > > > disease and an apparently new, variant form of CJD they had

> > > detected in just 20 or

> > > > 30 patients, everybody panicked and millions of cows were

> > > slaughtered, " said

> > > > Dr Fletcher.

> > > > " Yet there has been a tenfold increase in autism and related

> > forms

> > > of brain

> > > > damage over the past 15 years, roughly coinciding with MMR's

> > > introduction, and

> > > > an extremely worrying increase in childhood inflammatory

> bowel

> > > diseases and

> > > > immune disorders such as diabetes, and no one in authority

> will

> > > even admit

> > > > it's happening, let alone try to investigate the causes. "

> > > > He said there was " no way " the tenfold leap in autistic

> children

> > > could be the

> > > > result of better recognition and definitional changes, as

> > claimed

> > > by health

> > > > authorities.

> > > > " It is highly likely that at least part of this increase is

a

> > > vaccinerelated

> > > > problem. " he said. " But whatever it is, why isn't the

> Government

> > > taking this

> > > > massive public health problem more seriously? "

> > > > His outspokenness will infuriate health authorities, who

have

> > > spent millions

> > > > of pounds shoring up confidence in MMR since Dr Wakefield's

> 1998

> > > statement.

> > > > But Dr Fletcher said the Government is undermining public

> > > confidence in

> > > > vaccine safety by refusing to do in-depth clinical research

to

> > > rule out fears of

> > > > MMR damage to children.

> > > > He added that the risks of brain and gut damage from MMR

> > > injections seem to

> > > > be much higher in children where a brother or sister has

> > diabetes,

> > > an immune

> > > > disorder.

> > > > " That is a very strong clinical signal that some children

are

> > > immunologically

> > > > at risk from MMR, " he said. " Why is the Government not

> > > investigating it

> > > > further - diverting some of the millions of pounds spent on

> > > advertising and PR

> > > > campaigns to promote MMR uptake into detailed clinical

> research

> > > instead? "

> > > > Now retired after a distinguished 40-year career in science

> and

> > > medicine in

> > > > Britain, Europe and the US, Dr Fletcher said that without

such

> > > research,

> > > > health authorities could not possibly rule out fears about

> > MMR.

> > > > He said: " It is entirely possible that the immune systems of

a

> > > small minority

> > > > simply cannot cope with the challenge of the three live

> viruses

> > > in the MMR

> > > > jab, and the ever-increasing vaccine load in general. "

> > > > He said he had decided to speak out because of his deep

> concern

> > at

> > > the lack

> > > > of treatment for autistic children with bowel disease, as

> > revealed

> > > in The Mail

> > > > on Sunday two weeks ago.

> > > > He called the sudden termination of legal aid to parents of

> > > allegedly

> > > > vaccine-damaged children in late 2003 " a monstrous

injustice " .

> > > After agreeing to be

> > > > a witness for the parents, he received thousands of

documents

> > > relating to the

> > > > case.

> > > > " Now, it seems, unless the parents force the Government to

> > restore

> > > legal aid,

> > > > much of this revealing evidence may never come out, " he

> said.

> > > > The Department of Health said: " MMR remains the best

> protection

> > > against

> > > > measles, mumps and rubella. It is recognised by the World

> Health

> > > Organisation as

> > > > having an outstanding safety record and there is a wealth of

> > > evidence showing

> > > > children who receive the MMR vaccine are no more at risk of

> > autism

> > > than those

> > > > who don't. "

> > > >

> > > > _Add your comment_

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.htm

> > > l?

> >

in_article_id=376203 & in_page_id=1766 & in_a_source= & ito=1490#AddComm

> > > > ent) Reader comments (1)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Here's what readers have had to say so far. Why not add

your

> > > thoughts below?

> > > >

> > > > I have not vaccinated my 2 sons. This is after much

research

> > and

> > > soul

> > > > searching. We cannot ignore the fact that vaccine companies

in

> > > Japan for example

> > > > have paid out millions in damages for children damaged by

> > > vaccines. Parents

> > > > need to arm themselves with information and GPs should NOT

be

> > > given government

> > > > money for each vaccine jab they give (yes they are paid

> bonuses

> > > for

> > > > vaccinating!) We are sitting on a time bomb and I don`t want

> to

> > > risk my children`s

> > > > health by giving them a jab which may harm them when they

are

> > > perfectly healthy.

> > > >

> > > > - , Bedfordshire, UK

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

_http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.htm

> > > l?in_arti

> > > > cle_id=376203 & in_page_id=1766 & in_a_source= & ito=1490_

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.htm

> > > l?in_article_id=376203 & in_page_id=

> > > > 1766 & in_a_source= & ito=1490) Add your comment

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > DISCLAIMER

> > > No information contained in this post is to be construed as

> > medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from

a

> > suitably qualified practitioner.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Zoe

What you say makes perfect sense to me. I for one will be writing

an email and firing it off to everyone I can think of - from my

local MP to Downing St et al. I may also send it to the Daily Mail

as they have been writing so much to keep the MMR in the news.

It would be interesting to havve other thoughts as well though.

Jacqui X

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The Government is also considering flu jabs for under-

twos -

> > not

> > > > to protect

> > > > > the children, but adults they may infect

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > A former Government medical officer responsible for

> deciding

> > > > whether

> > > > > medicines are safe has accused the Government of " utterly

> > > > inexplicable complacency "

> > > > > over the MMR triple vaccine for children.

> > > > > Dr Fletcher, who was Chief Scientific Officer at the

> > > > Department of

> > > > > Health, said if it is proven that the jab causes

> autism, " the

> > > > refusal by

> > > > > governments to evaluate the risks properly will make this

> one

> > of

> > > > the greatest

> > > > > scandals in medical history " .

> > > > > He added that after agreeing to be an expert witness on

drug-

> > > > safety trials

> > > > > for parents' lawyers, he had received and studied

thousands

> of

> > > > documents

> > > > > relating to the case which he believed the public had a

> right

> > to

> > > > see.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > He said he has seen a " steady accumulation of evidence "

from

> > > > scientists

> > > > > worldwide that the measles, mumps and rubella jab is

causing

> > > brain

> > > > damage in

> > > > > certain children.

> > > > > But he added: " There are very powerful people in positions

> of

> > > > great authority

> > > > > in Britain and elsewhere who have staked their

reputations

> > and

> > > > careers on

> > > > > the safety of MMR and they are willing to do almost

> anything

> > to

> > > > protect

> > > > > themselves. "

> > > > > His warning follows reports that the Government is this

week

> > > > planning to

> > > > > announce the addition of a jab against pneumococcal

> meningitis

> > > for

> > > > babies,

> > > > > probably from next April. It is also considering flu jabs

> for

> > > > under-twos - not to

> > > > > protect the children, but adults they may infect.

> > > > > In the late Seventies, Dr Fletcher served as Chief

> Scientific

> > > > Officer at the

> > > > > DoH and Medical Assessor to the Committee on Safety of

> > > Medicines,

> > > > meaning he

> > > > > was responsible for deciding if new vaccines were safe.

> > > > > He first expressed concerns about MMR in 2001, saying

safety

> > > > trials before

> > > > > the vaccine's introduction in Britain were inadequate.

> > > > > Now he says the theoretical fears he raised appear to be

> > > becoming

> > > > reality.

> > > > > He said the rising tide of autism cases and growing

> scientific

> > > > understanding

> > > > > of autism-related bowel disease have convinced him the MMR

> > > vaccine

> > > > may be to

> > > > > blame.

> > > > > " Clinical and scientific data is steadily accumulating

that

> > the

> > > > live measles

> > > > > virus in MMR can cause brain, gut and immune system damage

> in

> > a

> > > > subset of

> > > > > vulnerable children, " he said. " There's no one conclusive

> > piece

> > > of

> > > > scientific

> > > > > evidence, no 'smoking gun', because there very rarely is

> when

> > > > adverse drug

> > > > > reactions are first suspected. When vaccine damage in very

> > young

> > > > children is

> > > > > involved, it is harder to prove the links.

> > > > > " But it is the steady accumulation of evidence, from a

> number

> > of

> > > > respected

> > > > > universities, teaching hospitals and laboratories around

the

> > > > world, that

> > > > > matters here. There's far too much to ignore. Yet

> government

> > > > health authorities

> > > > > are, it seems, more than happy to do so. "

> > > > > 'Why isn't the Government taking this massive public

health

> > > > problem more

> > > > > seriously?'

> > > > > Dr Fletcher said he found " this official complacency

utterly

> > > > inexplicable " in

> > > > > the light of an explosive worldwide increase in

regressive

> > > autism

> > > > and

> > > > > inflammatory bowel disease in children, which was first

> linked

> > > to

> > > > the live measles

> > > > > virus in the MMR jab by clinical researcher Dr

> > Wakefield

> > > in

> > > > 1998.

> > > > > " When scientists first raised fears of a possible link

> between

> > > mad

> > > > cow

> > > > > disease and an apparently new, variant form of CJD they

had

> > > > detected in just 20 or

> > > > > 30 patients, everybody panicked and millions of cows were

> > > > slaughtered, " said

> > > > > Dr Fletcher.

> > > > > " Yet there has been a tenfold increase in autism and

related

> > > forms

> > > > of brain

> > > > > damage over the past 15 years, roughly coinciding with

MMR's

> > > > introduction, and

> > > > > an extremely worrying increase in childhood inflammatory

> > bowel

> > > > diseases and

> > > > > immune disorders such as diabetes, and no one in authority

> > will

> > > > even admit

> > > > > it's happening, let alone try to investigate the

causes. "

> > > > > He said there was " no way " the tenfold leap in autistic

> > children

> > > > could be the

> > > > > result of better recognition and definitional changes, as

> > > claimed

> > > > by health

> > > > > authorities.

> > > > > " It is highly likely that at least part of this increase

is

> a

> > > > vaccinerelated

> > > > > problem. " he said. " But whatever it is, why isn't the

> > Government

> > > > taking this

> > > > > massive public health problem more seriously? "

> > > > > His outspokenness will infuriate health authorities, who

> have

> > > > spent millions

> > > > > of pounds shoring up confidence in MMR since Dr

Wakefield's

> > 1998

> > > > statement.

> > > > > But Dr Fletcher said the Government is undermining public

> > > > confidence in

> > > > > vaccine safety by refusing to do in-depth clinical

research

> to

> > > > rule out fears of

> > > > > MMR damage to children.

> > > > > He added that the risks of brain and gut damage from MMR

> > > > injections seem to

> > > > > be much higher in children where a brother or sister has

> > > diabetes,

> > > > an immune

> > > > > disorder.

> > > > > " That is a very strong clinical signal that some children

> are

> > > > immunologically

> > > > > at risk from MMR, " he said. " Why is the Government not

> > > > investigating it

> > > > > further - diverting some of the millions of pounds spent

on

> > > > advertising and PR

> > > > > campaigns to promote MMR uptake into detailed clinical

> > research

> > > > instead? "

> > > > > Now retired after a distinguished 40-year career in

science

> > and

> > > > medicine in

> > > > > Britain, Europe and the US, Dr Fletcher said that without

> such

> > > > research,

> > > > > health authorities could not possibly rule out fears

about

> > > MMR.

> > > > > He said: " It is entirely possible that the immune systems

of

> a

> > > > small minority

> > > > > simply cannot cope with the challenge of the three live

> > viruses

> > > > in the MMR

> > > > > jab, and the ever-increasing vaccine load in general. "

> > > > > He said he had decided to speak out because of his deep

> > concern

> > > at

> > > > the lack

> > > > > of treatment for autistic children with bowel disease, as

> > > revealed

> > > > in The Mail

> > > > > on Sunday two weeks ago.

> > > > > He called the sudden termination of legal aid to parents

of

> > > > allegedly

> > > > > vaccine-damaged children in late 2003 " a monstrous

> injustice " .

> > > > After agreeing to be

> > > > > a witness for the parents, he received thousands of

> documents

> > > > relating to the

> > > > > case.

> > > > > " Now, it seems, unless the parents force the Government to

> > > restore

> > > > legal aid,

> > > > > much of this revealing evidence may never come out, " he

> > said.

> > > > > The Department of Health said: " MMR remains the best

> > protection

> > > > against

> > > > > measles, mumps and rubella. It is recognised by the World

> > Health

> > > > Organisation as

> > > > > having an outstanding safety record and there is a wealth

of

> > > > evidence showing

> > > > > children who receive the MMR vaccine are no more at risk

of

> > > autism

> > > > than those

> > > > > who don't. "

> > > > >

> > > > > _Add your comment_

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.htm

> > > > l?

> > >

> in_article_id=376203 & in_page_id=1766 & in_a_source= & ito=1490#AddComm

> > > > > ent) Reader comments (1)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Here's what readers have had to say so far. Why not add

> your

> > > > thoughts below?

> > > > >

> > > > > I have not vaccinated my 2 sons. This is after much

> research

> > > and

> > > > soul

> > > > > searching. We cannot ignore the fact that vaccine

companies

> in

> > > > Japan for example

> > > > > have paid out millions in damages for children damaged by

> > > > vaccines. Parents

> > > > > need to arm themselves with information and GPs should NOT

> be

> > > > given government

> > > > > money for each vaccine jab they give (yes they are paid

> > bonuses

> > > > for

> > > > > vaccinating!) We are sitting on a time bomb and I don`t

want

> > to

> > > > risk my children`s

> > > > > health by giving them a jab which may harm them when they

> are

> > > > perfectly healthy.

> > > > >

> > > > > - , Bedfordshire, UK

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

_http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.htm

> > > > l?in_arti

> > > > > cle_id=376203 & in_page_id=1766 & in_a_source= & ito=1490_

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.htm

> > > > l?in_article_id=376203 & in_page_id=

> > > > > 1766 & in_a_source= & ito=1490) Add your comment

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > DISCLAIMER

> > > > No information contained in this post is to be construed as

> > > medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it

from

> a

> > > suitably qualified practitioner.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Deborah

I think we can do both - gesture of solidarity with a donation, and

political pressure with letters/e mails to MP's and maybe a petition

as has suggested, if others think it is a good idea.

Zoe

>

> hi,

> I was one ofthe MMR claimants who dropped the case and FWIW I think

the

> biggest help is political pressure. Those of us who were involved

didn't just

> have legal aid withdrawn. We were contacted and advised that were we

to persue

> this further then the drugs companies would take steps to recover

their costs

> against us. You can, I am sure, imagine the millions they have spent

and we

> could have become liable for this. With two other children the risk

was two

> much ( my oldest boy has already suffered enough). I was also never

really

> concerned about claiming the money - I just wanted to see the

research tested in

> court in the hope that others ( like my younger daughters friends

)were not

> given this jab under the illuision that it was safe.

> A finacial pot is a great gesture but won't touch the sides of any

costs

> should any parents become liable.

> I am full of admiration for those who have continued and a little

ashamed

> that i dropped out under the obvious bullying tactics of the drugs

companies but

> we each have our limits.

> I hope they do well and again fwiw I wi

ll drop Tony a line shortly to ask

> how much each pharmaceutical company has contributed to the labour

party and if

> he feels that this created any pressure on the legal aid board to

drop the

> case at the last minute...and will Glaxo Kline be sponsoring

sections of

> the labour conference as they did a few years ago ?

> Private Eye are excellent in their desire to see this case go to

trial and

> are always worth a read. Letters to our local MP's are always a good

option -

> especially with the labour back benchers appearing keen to assert

their

> independence ready for the next election which is not likely to be

such a forgone

> conclusion. An MP who is desperate to keep his seat can be a huge help

> best regards

> Deborah

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Zoe

Invite the press to go here .....

Thoughtful house conference in March .

Wakefield , Krigsman etc..all talking about gut.

http://www.mmrthequestions.com/index.htm

A Large presence of parents standing by the front of the building

with support the MMR parents should make the press !

Joanne

> >

> > hi,

> > I was one ofthe MMR claimants who dropped the case and FWIW I

think

> the

> > biggest help is political pressure. Those of us who were involved

> didn't just

> > have legal aid withdrawn. We were contacted and advised that

were we

> to persue

> > this further then the drugs companies would take steps to recover

> their costs

> > against us. You can, I am sure, imagine the millions they have

spent

> and we

> > could have become liable for this. With two other children the

risk

> was two

> > much ( my oldest boy has already suffered enough). I was also

never

> really

> > concerned about claiming the money - I just wanted to see the

> research tested in

> > court in the hope that others ( like my younger daughters

friends

> )were not

> > given this jab under the illuision that it was safe.

> > A finacial pot is a great gesture but won't touch the sides of

any

> costs

> > should any parents become liable.

> > I am full of admiration for those who have continued and a little

> ashamed

> > that i dropped out under the obvious bullying tactics of the

drugs

> companies but

> > we each have our limits.

> > I hope they do well and again fwiw I wi

>

>

>

> ll drop Tony a line shortly to ask

> > how much each pharmaceutical company has contributed to the

labour

> party and if

> > he feels that this created any pressure on the legal aid board

to

> drop the

> > case at the last minute...and will Glaxo Kline be

sponsoring

> sections of

> > the labour conference as they did a few years ago ?

> > Private Eye are excellent in their desire to see this case go to

> trial and

> > are always worth a read. Letters to our local MP's are always a

good

> option -

> > especially with the labour back benchers appearing keen to assert

> their

> > independence ready for the next election which is not likely to

be

> such a forgone

> > conclusion. An MP who is desperate to keep his seat can be a

huge help

> > best regards

> > Deborah

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> Please send cash transfers only, not credit card donations as these

> incur a fee. Thanks.

>

> Sorry Zoe didn't realise I will try again when bank account is

linked to Paypal

[Guest guest]

Thanks - or you can send me a cheque if it's easier - let me know.

Zoe

>

> > Please send cash transfers only, not credit card donations as these

> > incur a fee. Thanks.

> >

> > Sorry Zoe didn't realise I will try again when bank account is

> linked to Paypal

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

perhaps their are regional varaitions?

With all my kids ( oldest 12, youngest 3 ) we had a red childhood development book and I had to sign each page before the vaccine was given.. This was in ham( London), Sidcup (Kent) and the Epsom ( Surrey).

I had repeatedly told the Doctors/midwife/nurses that I did not want any jabs at all when my last babe was born and they were really helpful yet , when Moo arrived, hubby still had to grab a gung-ho nurse who had fired up the vit K and was heading determinedly towards her. I think they are so pre-conditioned......!

FWIW i think that regardless of good practice they should obtain consent ( written or verbal) and clearly did not do so. I think it constitutes an assalult and i would be trotting down to my friendly local solicitor. Perhaps Jackie Fletcher/JABS would be a good place to start?

I know there is a really good lady solicitor who has been advocating for the parents who blamed the MMR and were then accused in the family court of munchausens. She was at the Hear The Silence premiere sitting just behind me with some mums but I am so sorry I can't remember her name. Again, maybe JABS would know? Or Private Eye who covered one of her cases when an accused mum died of cancer because her symptoms were ignored ( as she was 'clearly over anxious and attention seeking') . The story was covered in the section called " In The Back" and someone at their desk maybe able to give you the lady solicitors name. The other people I would talk to are Hodge who acted for some of the MMR parents on a legal aid basis - as this is not about MMR safety per se they may be able to help.

Sorry this is waffly - hope something is of use....

Deborah

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 20/02/2006 12:41:02 GMT Standard Time, m.collins9@... writes:

I wondered whether a criminal assault had been committed on your nephew if neither parent had given consent...

>>>Yes I think so. We had all sorts of consent forms when I was at the surgery, don;t you sign one when babe is first born and that counts for the others vaccs. There should be notes in his medical records. I would start by using rights under Data Protection Act and getting copy of his medical records. Get this before the surgery knows anything is amiss.

You know the saddest thing - they will probably say sdo much autism in the family - can;t have had anything to do with vaccines...........................but we know different I think.

Mandi in Dorset

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 20/02/2006 16:07:04 GMT Standard Time, m_d33@... writes:

Even though I signed the consent form when my kids were babies, I am well within my rights to refuse any further vaccination they may receive in the future

>>>absolutely correct

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

My brother has just discovered that his son was given the MMR against his and his wife's wishes, by a health visitor and social worker who visited his home and had the needle in his leg before my SIL knew what was happening. Now, at the age of 4 and a half, he is just beginning to attempt single words, very unclear and only says part of the word, when he gets very excited he has to cover his eyes up, he covers his ears when he hears a loud noise and has yellow coloured diarrhoea. He's absolutely fuming, because they had always said they didn't want the MMR because his first son has autism, both my kids have autism, my sister's son has autism and her daughter died of joubert's syndrome and my SIL has a cousin with ADHD and my Mum has CFS. Where would you begin in a case like this? I can't mention in a public forum where my brother wants to begin with it.

Diane

Re: support for MMR families - Natasa

Zoe, I totally agree...Natasa> >> > Hi> > FWIW I think that Zoe is the best person to comment on how exactly> the money> > will be used - I agree with her entirely that the contribution is> a great> > gesture to the families. I am very admiring of people (like Zoe)> who actually> > gets their hands dirty and does something.> > I was just trying to say that the more this issue is kept in the> public eye> > and rght up our politicians noses the better. i think the two are> compatible> > and i wasn't trying to suggest it should be one or the other.> > hth's> > Deborah> >>

[Guest guest]

Diane,

This is truly appalling. It is of course up to your brother to decide what to do - a formal complaint to the PCT might be a start. I wondered why the social worker was there - if the family had had some difficulties in the past with social services eg threats of child protection measures it might be as well to tread carefully. If no such problemsand happy to go public, perhaps think of contacting at the Daily Mail? I wondered whether a criminal assault had been committed on your nephew if neither parent had given consent...

Margaret

Re: support for MMR families - Natasa

Zoe, I totally agree...Natasa> >> > Hi> > FWIW I think that Zoe is the best person to comment on how exactly> the money> > will be used - I agree with her entirely that the contribution is> a great> > gesture to the families. I am very admiring of people (like Zoe)> who actually> > gets their hands dirty and does something.> > I was just trying to say that the more this issue is kept in the> public eye> > and rght up our politicians noses the better. i think the two are> compatible> > and i wasn't trying to suggest it should be one or the other.> > hth's> > Deborah> >>__________ NOD32 1.1413 (20060217) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your reply. I think they had an over-zealous health visitor who contacted social services because of their first son's speech delay and also their reluctance to have the MMR. Autism wasn't mentioned, they just thought his speech delay was the parents fault!! Social services told the health visitor to stop contacting them, there was no problem with this family. I'll pass on your message to him, I think he feels so angry about this that he wants to do something but doesn't know what to do.

Diane

Re: support for MMR families - Natasa

Zoe, I totally agree...Natasa> >> > Hi> > FWIW I think that Zoe is the best person to comment on how exactly> the money> > will be used - I agree with her entirely that the contribution is> a great> > gesture to the families. I am very admiring of people (like Zoe)> who actually> > gets their hands dirty and does something.> > I was just trying to say that the more this issue is kept in the> public eye> > and rght up our politicians noses the better. i think the two are> compatible> > and i wasn't trying to suggest it should be one or the other.> > hth's> > Deborah> >>__________ NOD32 1.1413 (20060217) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

I don't seem to remember ever being asked to sign any consent forms when both my children were given childhood vaccinations. My children are now 11 and 13 years old so it is a long time ago.

Re: support for MMR families - Natasa

Zoe, I totally agree...Natasa> >> > Hi> > FWIW I think that Zoe is the best person to comment on how exactly> the money> > will be used - I agree with her entirely that the contribution is> a great> > gesture to the families. I am very admiring of people (like Zoe)> who actually> > gets their hands dirty and does something.> > I was just trying to say that the more this issue is kept in the> public eye> > and rght up our politicians noses the better. i think the two are> compatible> > and i wasn't trying to suggest it should be one or the other.> > hth's> > Deborah> >>__________ NOD32 1.1413 (20060217) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

Whether they wanted a consent form or not, they had specifically said they didn't want the MMR because of all the family history I've already mentioned. With my 2, ages 10 and 7, I had to sign my child record book on the immunisations page to give my consent for them to have all the vaccines. I imagine my SIL signed much the same when the lads were born. However, that shouldn't mean that they can just vaccinate your kids without your knowledge. Even though I signed the consent form when my kids were babies, I am well within my rights to refuse any further vaccination they may receive in the future.

Re: support for MMR families - Natasa

Zoe, I totally agree...Natasa> >> > Hi> > FWIW I think that Zoe is the best person to comment on how exactly> the money> > will be used - I agree with her entirely that the contribution is> a great> > gesture to the families. I am very admiring of people (like Zoe)> who actually> > gets their hands dirty and does something.> > I was just trying to say that the more this issue is kept in the> public eye> > and rght up our politicians noses the better. i think the two are> compatible> > and i wasn't trying to suggest it should be one or the other.> > hth's> > Deborah> >>__________ NOD32 1.1413 (20060217) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

They don't ask for written consent. The usual is that mother or father or someone with parental responsibility gets an"invitation" to take their baby for immunisation. Once there some questions are asked eg "Is your baby well today?" and they get on with it. Consent is implied by voluntatrily bringing the baby to the surgery. You can't imply consent the vaccine is given by stealth!

Margaret

Re: support for MMR families - Natasa

Zoe, I totally agree...Natasa> >> > Hi> > FWIW I think that Zoe is the best person to comment on how exactly> the money> > will be used - I agree with her entirely that the contribution is> a great> > gesture to the families. I am very admiring of people (like Zoe)> who actually> > gets their hands dirty and does something.> > I was just trying to say that the more this issue is kept in the> public eye> > and rght up our politicians noses the better. i think the two are> compatible> > and i wasn't trying to suggest it should be one or the other.> > hth's> > Deborah> >>__________ NOD32 1.1413 (20060217) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com__________ NOD32 1.1413 (20060217) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

FYI...

I had dreadful back problems after my daughter was born and visited an orthopaedic specialist who loved giving patients novocaine injections in the spine to relieve pain (each therapy room had a counter lined with novacaine laden needles ready to go!) He boasted he got an easy 14 D.M ( roughly 3 Pounds) for each shot back from the health insurance. The first time I was happy to have something to kill the pain. The second time, I was annoyed and the third time I got outright hostile as the third time I wasn't having any appreciable pain, just discomfort. He said he was giving me the novacaime just in case the pain came back. When I told my husband who is a lawyer about this, he said to let him know if this happened again without my say-so and we would file an assault charge.

Maybe someone should set a precedent and take this behaviour before a judicial court..

Re: support for MMR families - Natasa

Zoe, I totally agree...Natasa> >> > Hi> > FWIW I think that Zoe is the best person to comment on how exactly> the money> > will be used - I agree with her entirely that the contribution is> a great> > gesture to the families. I am very admiring of people (like Zoe)> who actually> > gets their hands dirty and does something.> > I was just trying to say that the more this issue is kept in the> public eye> > and rght up our politicians noses the better. i think the two are> compatible> > and i wasn't trying to suggest it should be one or the other.> > hth's> > Deborah> >>__________ NOD32 1.1413 (20060217) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

Meant to say FWIW ( For What It's Worth)

Re: support for MMR families - Natasa

Zoe, I totally agree...Natasa> >> > Hi> > FWIW I think that Zoe is the best person to comment on how exactly> the money> > will be used - I agree with her entirely that the contribution is> a great> > gesture to the families. I am very admiring of people (like Zoe)> who actually> > gets their hands dirty and does something.> > I was just trying to say that the more this issue is kept in the> public eye> > and rght up our politicians noses the better. i think the two are> compatible> > and i wasn't trying to suggest it should be one or the other.> > hth's> > Deborah> >>__________ NOD32 1.1413 (20060217) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

I don't know how you would get on with an assault charge but there definitely seems to be a deception in respect of NHS funds. It would probably be difficult to prove though.

Jane

Re: support for MMR families - Natasa

Zoe, I totally agree...Natasa> >> > Hi> > FWIW I think that Zoe is the best person to comment on how exactly> the money> > will be used - I agree with her entirely that the contribution is> a great> > gesture to the families. I am very admiring of people (like Zoe)> who actually> > gets their hands dirty and does something.> > I was just trying to say that the more this issue is kept in the> public eye> > and rght up our politicians noses the better. i think the two are> compatible> > and i wasn't trying to suggest it should be one or the other.> > hth's> > Deborah> >>__________ NOD32 1.1413 (20060217) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Diane

Perhaps legal advice would help? Your brother could go to any CAB

and get a free half hour appointment with a solicitor.

Or, he could contact the Childrens Law Centre

http://www.childrenslawcentre.org

Zoe x

> > >

> > > Hi

> > > FWIW I think that Zoe is the best person to comment on

how exactly

> > the money

> > > will be used - I agree with her entirely that the

contribution is

> > a great

> > > gesture to the families. I am very admiring of people

(like Zoe)

> > who actually

> > > gets their hands dirty and does something.

> > > I was just trying to say that the more this issue is

kept in the

> > public eye

> > > and rght up our politicians noses the better. i think

the two are

> > compatible

> > > and i wasn't trying to suggest it should be one or the

other.

> > > hth's

> > > Deborah

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> __________ NOD32 1.1413 (20060217) Information __________

>

> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.

> http://www.eset.com

>

>

>

> DISCLAIMER

> No information contained in this post is to be construed as

medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a

suitably qualified practitioner.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 22/02/2006 22:50:54 GMT Standard Time, mim2free@... writes:

The attitude is quite dictatorial, they don't ask , they pretty much intimate! ("come tomorrow for the MMR!"). We already stopped short of insulting them twice. Has anyone a final word about the legal framework please? BTW our son is waiting for the 'school bust', which we understand has something to do with yet another MMR

>>>They will stop the pressure after his birthday when by his age he will leave the target group on which they get paid, I hope.

Just keep saying no. The pre-school boosters would be more vaccines - Dipetheria, Tetanus, Polio MMr and maybe even something esle these days.

My son has not had the MMR and he didn't have the pre-school boosters either. You have the right to choose and the right to refuse and don;t let anybody tell you different if you are in the UK.

The targets the GP's have to meet to get paid are related to the AGE of the child. I used to be Medical Practice Manager - it used to be Age 2 on last borthday and age 5 on last birthday. So wehn they hit 3 you usually stop getting bothered about the baby vaccs & MMR, then again, after he is 5 and three quarters years old, they will stop bothering you again.

I am sorry you have to go through this, it is not right and it is not fair

Mandi in Dorset

[Guest guest]

Can you advise please? Our son of 4 1/2 has ASD diagnosis, he

developed the symptoms after taking the MMR. At that time we were

told that " in this country it is compulsory to do the MMR " ; at that

time we believed that, mother wasn't very good with english language.

We asked for separated shots and they nearly kicked out the

practise. WE did change the GP but now we are again under a

considerable pressure from the new GP for giving the MMR to our

joungest daughter age 30 months.They called us three times and every

time they ask whether there is a special reason for declinig the

shot. When mother says no, they call father with the same request.

unorganised or just evil? The attitude is quite dictatorial, they

don't ask , they pretty much intimate! ( " come tomorrow for the

MMR! " ). We already stopped short of insulting them twice. Has anyone

a final word about the legal framework please? BTW our son is waiting

for the 'school bust', which we understand has something to do with

yet another MMR. He is on a GFCF diet and under the care of a DAN

doctor, which we used as an excuse for buying some time.we were told

that he needs it for thetanus and other diseases, but will they mix

other stuffincluding - perhaps- poisoning preservatives in the mix?

What did you do with the school bust issue?

thanks a million

Isabel & o

> > > >

> > > > Hi

> > > > FWIW I think that Zoe is the best person to comment on

> how exactly

> > > the money

> > > > will be used - I agree with her entirely that the

> contribution is

> > > a great

> > > > gesture to the families. I am very admiring of people

> (like Zoe)

> > > who actually

> > > > gets their hands dirty and does something.

> > > > I was just trying to say that the more this issue is

> kept in the

> > > public eye

> > > > and rght up our politicians noses the better. i think

> the two are

> > > compatible

> > > > and i wasn't trying to suggest it should be one or the

> other.

> > > > hth's

> > > > Deborah

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > __________ NOD32 1.1413 (20060217) Information __________

> >

> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.

> > http://www.eset.com

> >

> >

> >

> > DISCLAIMER

> > No information contained in this post is to be construed as

> medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a

> suitably qualified practitioner.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I am not an expert but the "pre-school" booster includes MMR. Our son is approaching 5 also but I have just ignored the appointments for the booster shot. I did explain to our GP that I did not trust the NHS when it came to my sons health and that the lack of trust started at the GPs and then extended to the local clinics we have been referred to. I can appear quite steely determined when I want and since they have left me alone. However I have not yet decided about the tetanus shot. If your son had the first MMR he could well still have all the antibodies in his blood stream and the booster would be uneccessary. Great Ormond Street do a blood test for this but the wait is long and most PCTs (Primary Care Trusts) don't let GPs do direct referral but only a specialist can. THis could be a delaying tactic. Another delaying tactis could be that you request all the details of injections received to date (ie ingredients and batch numbers) not sure

what you could do with this information but they tend to get scared when these requests are made because it looks like you are building a case against them. For what it is worth you do not have to inject your child with anything if you so wish. GPs are keen but they do have a financial incentive to having a high proportion of immunisations. They have no legal backing to bullying you especially when they are financially rewarded for it. Mandi is the best person to respond as to what the risks of being taken off the GPs list are, but do you want a GP who bullies you? Just my humble and rambling opinion. mim2free <mim2free@...> wrote: Can you advise please? Our son of 4 1/2 has ASD diagnosis, he developed the symptoms after taking the MMR. At that time we

were told that "in this country it is compulsory to do the MMR"; at that time we believed that, mother wasn't very good with english language. We asked for separated shots and they nearly kicked out the practise. WE did change the GP but now we are again under a considerable pressure from the new GP for giving the MMR to our joungest daughter age 30 months.They called us three times and every time they ask whether there is a special reason for declinig the shot. When mother says no, they call father with the same request. unorganised or just evil? The attitude is quite dictatorial, they don't ask , they pretty much intimate! ("come tomorrow for the MMR!"). We already stopped short of insulting them twice. Has anyone a final word about the legal framework please? BTW our son is waiting for the 'school bust', which we understand has something to do with yet another MMR. He is on a GFCF diet and under the care of a DAN

doctor, which we used as an excuse for buying some time.we were told that he needs it for thetanus and other diseases, but will they mix other stuffincluding - perhaps- poisoning preservatives in the mix?What did you do with the school bust issue?thanks a millionIsabel & o> > > >> > > > Hi> > > > FWIW I think that Zoe is the best person to comment on > how exactly> > > the

money> > > > will be used - I agree with her entirely that the > contribution is> > > a great> > > > gesture to the families. I am very admiring of people > (like Zoe)> > > who actually> > > > gets their hands dirty and does something.> > > > I was just trying to say that the more this issue is > kept in the> > > public eye> > > > and rght up our politicians noses the better. i think > the two are> > > compatible> > > > and i wasn't trying to

suggest it should be one or the > other.> > > > hth's> > > > Deborah> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________ NOD32 1.1413 (20060217) Information __________> > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.> > http://www.eset.com> > > > > > > > DISCLAIMER> > No information contained in this post is to be construed as > medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a > suitably qualified

practitioner.> > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I am not an expert but the "pre-school" booster includes MMR. Our son is approaching 5 also but I have just ignored the appointments for the booster shot. I did explain to our GP that I did not trust the NHS when it came to my sons health and that the lack of trust started at the GPs and then extended to the local clinics we have been referred to. I can appear quite steely determined when I want and since they have left me alone. However I have not yet decided about the tetanus shot. If your son had the first MMR he could well still have all the antibodies in his blood stream and the booster would be uneccessary. Great Ormond Street do a blood test for this but the wait is long and most PCTs (Primary Care Trusts) don't let GPs do direct referral but only a specialist can. THis could be a delaying tactic. Another delaying tactis could be that you request all the details of injections received to date (ie ingredients and batch numbers) not sure

what you could do with this information but they tend to get scared when these requests are made because it looks like you are building a case against them. For what it is worth you do not have to inject your child with anything if you so wish. GPs are keen but they do have a financial incentive to having a high proportion of immunisations. They have no legal backing to bullying you especially when they are financially rewarded for it. Mandi is the best person to respond as to what the risks of being taken off the GPs list are, but do you want a GP who bullies you? Just my humble and rambling opinion. mim2free <mim2free@...> wrote: Can you advise please? Our son of 4 1/2 has ASD diagnosis, he developed the symptoms after taking the MMR. At that time we

were told that "in this country it is compulsory to do the MMR"; at that time we believed that, mother wasn't very good with english language. We asked for separated shots and they nearly kicked out the practise. WE did change the GP but now we are again under a considerable pressure from the new GP for giving the MMR to our joungest daughter age 30 months.They called us three times and every time they ask whether there is a special reason for declinig the shot. When mother says no, they call father with the same request. unorganised or just evil? The attitude is quite dictatorial, they don't ask , they pretty much intimate! ("come tomorrow for the MMR!"). We already stopped short of insulting them twice. Has anyone a final word about the legal framework please? BTW our son is waiting for the 'school bust', which we understand has something to do with yet another MMR. He is on a GFCF diet and under the care of a DAN

doctor, which we used as an excuse for buying some time.we were told that he needs it for thetanus and other diseases, but will they mix other stuffincluding - perhaps- poisoning preservatives in the mix?What did you do with the school bust issue?thanks a millionIsabel & o> > > >> > > > Hi> > > > FWIW I think that Zoe is the best person to comment on > how exactly> > > the

money> > > > will be used - I agree with her entirely that the > contribution is> > > a great> > > > gesture to the families. I am very admiring of people > (like Zoe)> > > who actually> > > > gets their hands dirty and does something.> > > > I was just trying to say that the more this issue is > kept in the> > > public eye> > > > and rght up our politicians noses the better. i think > the two are> > > compatible> > > > and i wasn't trying to

suggest it should be one or the > other.> > > > hth's> > > > Deborah> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________ NOD32 1.1413 (20060217) Information __________> > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.> > http://www.eset.com> > > > > > > > DISCLAIMER> > No information contained in this post is to be construed as > medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a > suitably qualified

practitioner.> > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I am not an expert but the "pre-school" booster includes MMR. Our son is approaching 5 also but I have just ignored the appointments for the booster shot. I did explain to our GP that I did not trust the NHS when it came to my sons health and that the lack of trust started at the GPs and then extended to the local clinics we have been referred to. I can appear quite steely determined when I want and since they have left me alone. However I have not yet decided about the tetanus shot. If your son had the first MMR he could well still have all the antibodies in his blood stream and the booster would be uneccessary. Great Ormond Street do a blood test for this but the wait is long and most PCTs (Primary Care Trusts) don't let GPs do direct referral but only a specialist can. THis could be a delaying tactic. Another delaying tactis could be that you request all the details of injections received to date (ie ingredients and batch numbers) not sure

what you could do with this information but they tend to get scared when these requests are made because it looks like you are building a case against them. For what it is worth you do not have to inject your child with anything if you so wish. GPs are keen but they do have a financial incentive to having a high proportion of immunisations. They have no legal backing to bullying you especially when they are financially rewarded for it. Mandi is the best person to respond as to what the risks of being taken off the GPs list are, but do you want a GP who bullies you? Just my humble and rambling opinion. mim2free <mim2free@...> wrote: Can you advise please? Our son of 4 1/2 has ASD diagnosis, he developed the symptoms after taking the MMR. At that time we

were told that "in this country it is compulsory to do the MMR"; at that time we believed that, mother wasn't very good with english language. We asked for separated shots and they nearly kicked out the practise. WE did change the GP but now we are again under a considerable pressure from the new GP for giving the MMR to our joungest daughter age 30 months.They called us three times and every time they ask whether there is a special reason for declinig the shot. When mother says no, they call father with the same request. unorganised or just evil? The attitude is quite dictatorial, they don't ask , they pretty much intimate! ("come tomorrow for the MMR!"). We already stopped short of insulting them twice. Has anyone a final word about the legal framework please? BTW our son is waiting for the 'school bust', which we understand has something to do with yet another MMR. He is on a GFCF diet and under the care of a DAN

doctor, which we used as an excuse for buying some time.we were told that he needs it for thetanus and other diseases, but will they mix other stuffincluding - perhaps- poisoning preservatives in the mix?What did you do with the school bust issue?thanks a millionIsabel & o> > > >> > > > Hi> > > > FWIW I think that Zoe is the best person to comment on > how exactly> > > the

money> > > > will be used - I agree with her entirely that the > contribution is> > > a great> > > > gesture to the families. I am very admiring of people > (like Zoe)> > > who actually> > > > gets their hands dirty and does something.> > > > I was just trying to say that the more this issue is > kept in the> > > public eye> > > > and rght up our politicians noses the better. i think > the two are> > > compatible> > > > and i wasn't trying to

suggest it should be one or the > other.> > > > hth's> > > > Deborah> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________ NOD32 1.1413 (20060217) Information __________> > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.> > http://www.eset.com> > > > > > > > DISCLAIMER> > No information contained in this post is to be construed as > medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a > suitably qualified

practitioner.> > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

My G.P. won't even go there with me, did not have MMR on the basis that his brother had a dx of autism and the GP practice accepted this fully, no argument.

We do still get all the usual reminders of vaccines but I think this is just a thing that goes out to all parents automatic.

Vicky