Re: fermented drinks without whey

[Guest guest]

You can make a ginger starter out of bacteria indigenous to ginger. Do you

get Wise Traditions? Eisenstein has a recent article in it about how

to do this. Basically you start with 2 tbsp ginger and 2 tbsp sugar, and you

grind up the ginger and let them sit together for a day, and then for a week

add 2 tbsp each every day.

Easier solution for electrolyte-rich drinks: 1) put some salt in your water

(ik) 2) lemon-water, 3)small amount of vinegar in water.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Oh good, it's online now. This is the end of the article, about methods.

doesn't use whey, and I've had his drinks before-- they are absolutely

superb and better than anything I've ever made with whey. I haven't tried his

method yet but intend do in the future. The full article is at <A

HREF= " http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/Realthing.html " >Weston A.

Price Foundation: Reak Soft Drinks</A>

Chris

ARTISANAL HOME SODA FERMENTATION

So let’s get down to making lacto-fermented soda—the real thing. The first

step is simply to realize that it is very easy. The minimum equipment is a

glass fermentation vessel and the minimum ingredients are sugar, water and the

culture. Mix them together and fermentation happens. To make it really

delicious,

though, some pointers are in order.

Step 1: Bring approximately 50 percent of your water to a boil and dissolve

1.5 cups of sugar in it for each gallon of soda you plan to make. If you are

boiling roots in the water (see below), remove them before adding sugar. The

sweet, somewhat viscous liquid you have now is called “syrup.â€

Step 2: Pour the syrup and the remaining water into your fermentation vessel.

I like to use the scalding hot syrup to sterilize my vessel, but be careful

not to pour it in too fast or it could crack. The resulting diluted syrup is

still too hot for the culture. You can either wait, or cool the syrup first by

letting the pot sit in a sinkful of cold water before adding it to the vessel.

Step 3: Add any other flavorings, such as lemon juice (see below) to the

diluted syrup.

Step 4: Making sure the syrup has cooled to body temperature, add about a

cupful of culture for each gallon of water. You could add less culture, but the

more you add, the greater the head start your beneficial bacteria have over any

opportunistic invaders, such as alcohol-producing yeasts.

Step 5: Cover the vessel (it need not be completely airtight, but it can be)

and let it ferment. Fermentation rate is highly variable. If you like a

sweeter soda, four or five days might be sufficient. If you want to ferment out

most

of the sugar, allow at least 10 days. Some additives such as mint and honey

tend to inhibit bacteria and drastically slow fermentation.

Step 6: Time to bottle! Brewing supply stores carry siphon tubes to siphon

the soda directly from carboy to bottle, but if you are fermenting in a jar you

can simply pour it into bottles or scoop it in with a glass measuring cup. You

must have some way to seal the bottles, either with a bottle capper or

stoppered bottles (both available at brewing supply stores). Do not bottle the

thick

layer of sediment at the bottom of the fermentation vessel.

Step 7: Carbonation. The soda continues to ferment in the bottles, giving off

carbon dioxide gas. Since the bottles are sealed, the gas has nowhere to go.

In stays in the bottle and makes the soda fizzy. Depending on how fast it is

fermenting, 2-5 days is usually enough time to create the optimum level of

carbonation. You can always open a bottle and check.

Step 8: Stopping fermentation. Now we have a problem, because if the soda

continues to ferment the bottles will foam over or spray when opened. The

bottles

might even explode if left out long enough. So when carbonation is

sufficient, it is time to stop fermentation by putting the bottles in the

refrigerator.

Not enough room? A cold basement will work too, slowing down fermentation but

not quite stopping it. Usually soda will keep just fine in the basement for a

month or more.

Step 9: Drink it! Lacto-fermented soda is an excellent thirst quencher and

contains beneficial lactic acid, vitamins, enzymes and beneficial lactobacilli

that can inhabit your gut, where they protect you against pathogenic bacteria

and yeast.

Sidebar Article

HOMEMADE SODA BASICS

THE VESSEL: A one- or two-gallon glass jar is fine, but if you want to make

larger quantities you’ll need a glass carboy, readily available at brewing

supply stores for under $20. The five-gallon size works best. For a few cents

you

can also purchase a water lock, which bubbles merrily away as your soda

ferments. All utensils should be clean, but antiseptic cleanliness is

unnecessary.

Usually we rinse the vessel a few times with water and sterilize it with the

hot syrup for next batch.

OTHER EQUIPMENT: You will need bottles with good stoppers—a strong, tight

cork, a beer bottle top, or a stopper held down with a wire. These are available

at brewing stores and also at places like the Container Store. You will also

need a funnel or siphon for transfering the soda from the vessel into bottles.

THE WATER: Do not use chlorinated tap water, as this will inhibit

fermentation. Most filtered or bottled water works fine. If you must use

straight tap

water, boil it to evaporate off the chlorine.

THE SUGAR: We have gotten good results with sucanat, rice malt, maple sugar,

jaggery, honey, and apple cider. The flavor from rapadura or molasses is too

strong for most people. Honey is delicious but is best used as a flavoring

rather than the main sugar source, because apparently honey inhibits bacterial

growth. Even at half strength, honey soda can take months to finish. You can use

fruit juice, but for some reason commercial canned fruit juice, even organic

brands, produce noxious results. Fresh-pressed apple cider produces delicious

soda, although it will probably be slightly alcoholic (1-2%) due to natural

yeasts on the apples. Remember that most of the sugar will be converted into

lactic acid in the fermentation process. Use about 1.5 cups of sugar per gallon

of

water.

THE CULTURE: You can use a bottle of soda from the last batch as culture, or

you can make your own from scratch. Dice fresh ginger root into tiny cubes and

put a tablespoon of it into a mason jar 3/4 full of water, along with 2

teaspoons white sugar. Add another 2 teaspoons each sugar and ginger every day

for

a week, at which time it should become bubbly with a pleasant odor. If it gets

moldy, dump it and start over. Even a small amount of culture will start a

batch of soda going, but it’s best to use at least a cup per gallon so that

these beneficial lactobacilli can dominate before less desirable microorganisms

have a chance.

FLAVORINGS: The water used to dissolve the sugar need not be just water! You

can use any herbal decoction to make soda with the flavor or medicinal

qualities you are seeking. For example, to make ginger beer, boil sliced ginger

root

in the water, about one thumb’s-length per gallon of soda, for twenty minutes.

Peppermint, spearmint, or other mint can also be used to flavor soda. Put the

mint in boiling water, turn off the heat immediately, cover and steep. Lemon

juice is a good addition to almost any soda flavor and seems to help preserve

the syrup before fermentation gets going. Use approximately two lemons per

gallon of soda, depending on juiciness. One of the favorite beverages in

colonial

America was root beer. Any roots can go into root beer, but the essential

ones for flavor are sassafras and sarsaparilla. Sassafras in particular lends a

pungent aroma and beautiful reddish color to soda, and is readily available

throughout the Eastern US. Common medicinal roots like burdock, chicory,

dandelion, and so forth tend to impart a strong mediciney “herbal†flavor to

the

soda. It’s the sassafras or sarsaparilla that make people say “Yum!â€

 

This article appeared in Wise Traditions in Food, Farming and the Healing

Arts, the quarterly magazine of the Weston A. Price Foundation, Spring 2003

This page was posted on 06/30/03

[Guest guest]

cric,

You have to use sugar for a lacto-fermented drink, or there's nothing for the

bacteria to feed off of. It probably *wouldn't* be strong, because the

bacteria wouldn't be able to make much lactic acid.

If you don't want to use sugar, use dehydrated cane juice (Rapadura), maple

syrup, maple sugar, etc. Or you could use some sort of fruit juice if you

want. But you need carbs for the bacteria to feed off of. Carrots are pretty

carby and might produce a good drink, as the sugars/starches that don't get made

into lactic acid will probably be broken down into sugars, so it would

probably taste good, but I'd use sugar for the starter to get it going.

Chris

[Guest guest]

---If you don't use whey what do you want to ferment with? The small

amount of whey basically provides the micro's for ferment. You might

use the kefir but I've not tried it. You can drink the whey ferment

all day more or less can't you? Dennis

In , " cricjohnson "

<cricjohnson@y...> wrote:

> i am looking to make a fermented drink (possibly beet kvass, or

> something with carrots, celery, and ginger) without using whey.

>

> the purpose is to have an replenishing, electrolyte-rich concoction

> to drink in place of water all day.

>

> does anyone know if this is possible?

>

> thanks,

>

> cric johnson :-)

[Guest guest]

thanks for the reply dennis.

the problem with the whey is that i do not tolerate dairy.

i know, for instance, that with the cultured beets and carrots, i

don't add either whey or salt. i just chop 'em up and toss 'em in the

crock for about a week. they work up great.

it's just that with a drink i don't know if the same rule would apply.

cric :-)

-- In , " dkemnitz2000 "

<dkemnitz2000@y...> wrote:

> ---If you don't use whey what do you want to ferment with? The

small

> amount of whey basically provides the micro's for ferment. You

might

> use the kefir but I've not tried it. You can drink the whey

ferment

> all day more or less can't you? Dennis

>

>

>

>

> In , " cricjohnson "

> <cricjohnson@y...> wrote:

> > i am looking to make a fermented drink (possibly beet kvass, or

> > something with carrots, celery, and ginger) without using whey.

> >

> > the purpose is to have an replenishing, electrolyte-rich

concoction

> > to drink in place of water all day.

> >

> > does anyone know if this is possible?

> >

> > thanks,

> >

> > cric johnson :-)

[Guest guest]

thanks for the reply chris.

i think i have read about this ginger concotion in " nourishing

traditions " .

the thing is, i don't want to use sugar, as the recipe calls for. if

it's just for the starter, and the final product has little sugar,

that would be acceptable.

the only problem is that a ginger drink without sweetener would be

pretty strong.

any ideas?

cric :-)

In , ChrisMasterjohn@a... wrote:

> You can make a ginger starter out of bacteria indigenous to

ginger. Do you

> get Wise Traditions? Eisenstein has a recent article in it

about how

> to do this. Basically you start with 2 tbsp ginger and 2 tbsp

sugar, and you

> grind up the ginger and let them sit together for a day, and then

for a week

> add 2 tbsp each every day.

>

> Easier solution for electrolyte-rich drinks: 1) put some salt in

your water

> (ik) 2) lemon-water, 3)small amount of vinegar in water.

>

> Chris

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>the purpose is to have an replenishing, electrolyte-rich concoction

>to drink in place of water all day.

>

>does anyone know if this is possible?

The pioneers did this -- they called it " cider " . Put some fresh apple

juice in a barrel on the porch, wait a few days.

Personally I put the apple juice in a bottle and add a kefir

grain. Decant the cider after a day or two and drink it,

then add more apple juice (leave the grain and a little

cider in there to start the next batch). If you use diluted

juice, it will probably be better to drink " all day " -- the more

sugar you have to start with, the highter the alcohol content.

You can even use something like cabbage juice to start

with, though I have not tried that. But any juice works,

and slices of ginger make it nice too. You can use the

same kefir grain for a LONG time, so you aren't getting

any great amount of " milk " (rinse the grain before you

start). I ferment mine dry -- there is little if any sugar

left (it doesn't make my teeth mossy, which is my

key to sugar content!).

-- Heidi

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Hi, I have been using a symbiotic culture of organisms called EM in

things like kim chi. I also add it to vegetable juice. Here is

some info.

http://www.rawpaleodiet.org/em/

What about drinking the water of young coconuts?

> i am looking to make a fermented drink (possibly beet kvass, or

> something with carrots, celery, and ginger) without using whey.

>

> the purpose is to have an replenishing, electrolyte-rich

concoction

> to drink in place of water all day.

>

> does anyone know if this is possible?

>

> thanks,

>

> cric johnson :-)

[Guest guest]

Quoting Joe <jzbozzi@...>:

> Hi, I have been using a symbiotic culture of organisms called EM in

> things like kim chi. I also add it to vegetable juice. Here is

> some info.

>

> http://www.rawpaleodiet.org/em/

Careful with this--I thought my allergies had disappeared, but they came

back pretty strong when I started drinking EM-cultured molasses.

> What about drinking the water of young coconuts?

I tried fermenting coconut water with kefir grains, and that turned out

pretty well.

--

Berg

bberg@...

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

They drank it hard for the most part to my understanding. Would it be hard

cider after a few days? The kefir bacteria would get out most or all of the

alcohol from the kefir yeasts, which would make much better for an all-day

drink!

Chris

In a message dated 7/26/03 1:01:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

>

> The pioneers did this -- they called it " cider " . Put some fresh apple

> juice in a barrel on the porch, wait a few days.

>

> Personally I put the apple juice in a bottle and add a kefir

> grain. Decant the cider after a day or two and drink it,

> then add more apple juice (leave the grain and a little

> cider in there to start the next batch). If you use diluted

> juice, it will probably be better to drink " all day " -- the more

> sugar you have to start with, the highter the alcohol content.

>

> You can even use something like cabbage juice to start

> with, though I have not tried that. But any juice works,

> and slices of ginger make it nice too. You can use the

> same kefir grain for a LONG time, so you aren't getting

> any great amount of " milk " (rinse the grain before you

> start). I ferment mine dry -- there is little if any sugar

> left (it doesn't make my teeth mossy, which is my

> key to sugar content!).

>

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

In a message dated 7/27/03 2:59:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> The bigger the yeast/bacteria ratio, the more alcohol. They DID drink cider

> all day,

> men, women, and children, and Jefferson is said to have started his

> day

> with a quart of the stuff. Which makes me think the alchohol content wasn't

> as high as the pure-yeast cider that is made today. That and it was sitting

> on

> the porch all winter ... I'd guess it was actually pretty sour. However,

> some

> people have said it was very alcoholic.

All I've read about it is a couple articles that mentioned cider consumption

in New England around 1830s, or 1790s-1840s, and what I've read said it was

hard cider, despite that the whole family drank it as their primary drink. Not

feeding kids alcohol is a modern thing ;-)

The Founding Fathers were pot-heads anyway. Yes, I know, hemp has other

uses. But someone in an American Revolution class I took did a research paper

and

presentation on Washington's hemp-growing and found some evidence, such as

writings about separating the males and females (which is useful only if you

want THC-producing buds!), that indicated he was smokin it up.

So Jefferson starting the day with a quart of hard cider doesn't surprise me!

Chris

>

> Anyway, mine seems moderately alcoholic -- not as much as beer, and

> I can drink a quart and not be drunk in any sense. The sugar is all

> converted to *something* though, or most of it. Usually when we make

> beer, we let it ferment at least a week, but that is a pure yeast ferment.

> I've heard numbers in the half to one percent alcohol range for

> kefir-ale, but it would depend on how much sugar was in the juice.

>

>

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

[Guest guest]

>Heidi,

>

>They drank it hard for the most part to my understanding. Would it be hard

>cider after a few days? The kefir bacteria would get out most or all of the

>alcohol from the kefir yeasts, which would make much better for an all-day

>drink!

>

>Chris

The bigger the yeast/bacteria ratio, the more alcohol. They DID drink cider all

day,

men, women, and children, and Jefferson is said to have started his day

with a quart of the stuff. Which makes me think the alchohol content wasn't

as high as the pure-yeast cider that is made today. That and it was sitting on

the porch all winter ... I'd guess it was actually pretty sour. However, some

people have said it was very alcoholic.

Anyway, mine seems moderately alcoholic -- not as much as beer, and

I can drink a quart and not be drunk in any sense. The sugar is all

converted to *something* though, or most of it. Usually when we make

beer, we let it ferment at least a week, but that is a pure yeast ferment.

I've heard numbers in the half to one percent alcohol range for

kefir-ale, but it would depend on how much sugar was in the juice.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>All I've read about it is a couple articles that mentioned cider consumption

>in New England around 1830s, or 1790s-1840s, and what I've read said it was

>hard cider, despite that the whole family drank it as their primary drink. Not

>feeding kids alcohol is a modern thing ;-)

Actually I read in one WHO document about fermentation that worldwide,

people get some large percentage of their calories from alcohol, traditionally.

A lot of stuff people eat digests better when fermented, and that means some

percentage of ethanol, plus, heck, people LIKE getting a bit high. I tend

to think though, that drinking drinks like lacto-fermented cider isn't

really as " high " as we tend to associate with booze, and if you drink

the same amount constantly you would tend to get used to that

level of alcohol. Alcohol became a serious problem when people invented

pure yeast ferments and distilling. Chewing coca leaves was never

a great problem either, until folks started extracting pure cocaine!

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/27/03 2:16:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> I tend

> to think though, that drinking drinks like lacto-fermented cider isn't

> really as " high " as we tend to associate with booze, and if you drink

> the same amount constantly you would tend to get used to that

> level of alcohol.

Yeah, like " small beer. "

Alcohol became a serious problem when people invented

> pure yeast ferments and distilling.

Hmm, there were big alcohol problems in the early 19th century, hence the

Temperance Movement. At the shoe shop in OSV, we are proud members of the

Boston

INtemperance Society.

Chewing coca leaves was never

> a great problem either, until folks started extracting pure cocaine!

Indeed, as Price found Aborigines who chewed on coca all day long. Wonder

how that relates to the opioid theory...

Chris

[Guest guest]

>Alcohol became a serious problem when people invented

>> pure yeast ferments and distilling.

>

>Hmm, there were big alcohol problems in the early 19th century, hence the

>Temperance Movement. At the shoe shop in OSV, we are proud members of the

Boston

>INtemperance Society.

Exactly. Around that time every British sailor got his ration of rum too ... and

they were learning to make non-lacto-fermented beer no doubt (much of the

point of modern beer and wine making is to increase the alcohol content,

using specialized yeasts and by preventing the lactobacilli from growing).

People have gotten drunk forever -- the Romans were good at it -- but it

got a lot worse when stills were invented (probably cheap sugar didn't

help either).

Anyway, I can drink kefir cider all night, but one martini

and I'm done for. You CAN make a pretty high-alcohol cider out of apple

juice, but it is more work and looking at the way the pioneers did it, I'd

guess theirs wasn't too high in alcohol.

But what is a " shoe shop in OSV? "

>Chewing coca leaves was never

>> a great problem either, until folks started extracting pure cocaine!

>

>Indeed, as Price found Aborigines who chewed on coca all day long. Wonder

>how that relates to the opioid theory...

Good question. I'd guess if you just chewed the leaves, you'd

get accustomed to that amount of opium, as it would be difficult to

keep increasing the dose. When folks are on morphine for pain

management, the mental effects decrease even though the

pain killing remains the same -- if you are taking morphine

for the " high " you have to keep increasing the dose. Which

is interesting in terms of autistic kids -- if the gluten or casein

was acting like normal opioids, they should just " get used " to

it? Maybe:

A. Gluten and casein act as opioids for EVERYONE, but the autistic

people lack the capacity to adapt to it. Or,

B. Gluten and casein don't act like normal opioids (or like ANY opioids,

maybe it is a different reaction).

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/29/03 1:20:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> Anyway, I can drink kefir cider all night, but one martini

> and I'm done for. You CAN make a pretty high-alcohol cider out of apple

> juice, but it is more work and looking at the way the pioneers did it, I'd

> guess theirs wasn't too high in alcohol.

>

I'm just wondering whether rural people who made their own cider used these

yeasts or not. I have no idea.

> But what is a " shoe shop in OSV? "

>

Ha! Old Sturbridge Village, where I'm working right now, is a living history

museum. Sometimes I work in the shoe shop where we bottom shoes. On those

days, I'm actually in Shoes/Pottery or " Shpots " as they now call it, and in all

truth I try to avoid going to shoes and stay in potter if I can :-) Anyway

there is a sign on the wall which I believe to be a copy of an authentic for

the Boston Intemperance Society with a bunch of resolutions bashing the

Temperance Movement. Shoe shops were where people would bottom shoes. They

were

usually young people doing piece work for a manufacturer, and they rented space

in

the shoe shop for social reasons, b/c shoe-making is boring, and they usually

drank some kind of liquor while they worked.

> Good question. I'd guess if you just chewed the leaves, you'd

> get accustomed to that amount of opium, as it would be difficult to

> keep increasing the dose. When folks are on morphine for pain

> management, the mental effects decrease even though the

> pain killing remains the same -- if you are taking morphine

> for the " high " you have to keep increasing the dose. Which

> is interesting in terms of autistic kids -- if the gluten or casein

> was acting like normal opioids, they should just " get used " to

> it? Maybe:

>

> A. Gluten and casein act as opioids for EVERYONE, but the autistic

> people lack the capacity to adapt to it. Or,

>

> B. Gluten and casein don't act like normal opioids (or like ANY opioids,

> maybe it is a different reaction).

So much on which to wonder... :-)

Chris

[Guest guest]

>I'm just wondering whether rural people who made their own cider used these

>yeasts or not. I have no idea.

According to the cookbooks, they saved yeast cultures, sometimes by

drying them into little yeast-balls, when they got a " good one " going. I'm

sure they didn't use cultures like I used to use -- those come in little foil

packets, packaged specially and kept in a fridge. My Mom says when they

made cider, they just pressed it and let it set in barrels -- the apples are

coated in yeast (that's the white stuff that covers apples and grapes).

But unless you boil the cider, you will get lactobacilli in it also, I believe.

>> But what is a " shoe shop in OSV? "

>>

>

>Ha! Old Sturbridge Village, where I'm working right now, is a living history

>museum. Sometimes I work in the shoe shop where we bottom shoes. On those

>days, I'm actually in Shoes/Pottery or " Shpots " as they now call it, and in all

>truth I try to avoid going to shoes and stay in potter if I can :-) Anyway

>there is a sign on the wall which I believe to be a copy of an authentic for

>the Boston Intemperance Society with a bunch of resolutions bashing the

>Temperance Movement. Shoe shops were where people would bottom shoes. They

were

>usually young people doing piece work for a manufacturer, and they rented space

in

>the shoe shop for social reasons, b/c shoe-making is boring, and they usually

>drank some kind of liquor while they worked.

Wow! That sounds like a fun job. So you are " bottoming shoes " like they did

in the old days? And getting paid for it? I could come man the spinning wheel

....

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/29/03 5:38:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> Wow! That sounds like a fun job. So you are " bottoming shoes " like they did

> in the old days? And getting paid for it? I could come man the spinning

> wheel ...

The pay is crap and right now there is a hiring freeze but if you don't mind

dressing in 1830s clothes and you can get used to saying " good day " instead of

hello there's room for a spinner. You can spin the wool I card in the

carding mill ;-)

Chris

[Guest guest]

>The pay is crap and right now there is a hiring freeze but if you don't mind

>dressing in 1830s clothes and you can get used to saying " good day " instead of

>hello there's room for a spinner. You can spin the wool I card in the

>carding mill ;-)

>

>Chris

Well, when I make my second million on our app I'll work for free. Or maybe

we should set up shop in Hawaii as a " Pre captain Cook " Hawaiian village ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

,

How long did you drink the EM brew? Did you switch to another or give it

up entirely?

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:27:32 -0700

Berg <bberg@...> wrote:

> Quoting Joe <jzbozzi@...>:

>

> > Hi, I have been using a symbiotic culture of organisms called EM in

> > things like kim chi. I also add it to vegetable juice. Here is

> > some info.

> >

> > http://www.rawpaleodiet.org/em/

>

> Careful with this--I thought my allergies had disappeared, but they came

> back pretty strong when I started drinking EM-cultured molasses.

>

> > What about drinking the water of young coconuts?

>

> I tried fermenting coconut water with kefir grains, and that turned out

> pretty well.

>

> --

> Berg

> bberg@...

" Humans live on one-quarter of what they eat; on the other three-quarters lives

their doctor. "

--Egyptian pyramid inscription, 3800 B.C.

[Guest guest]

Did you substitute the whey with EM in a 1 to 1 ratio or more or less?

Re: Re: fermented drinks without whey

,

How long did you drink the EM brew? Did you switch to another or give it

up entirely?

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:27:32 -0700

Berg <bberg@...> wrote:

> Quoting Joe <jzbozzi@...>:

>

> > Hi, I have been using a symbiotic culture of organisms called EM in

> > things like kim chi. I also add it to vegetable juice. Here is

> > some info.

> >

> > http://www.rawpaleodiet.org/em/

>

> Careful with this--I thought my allergies had disappeared, but they came

> back pretty strong when I started drinking EM-cultured molasses.

>

> > What about drinking the water of young coconuts?

>

> I tried fermenting coconut water with kefir grains, and that turned out

> pretty well.

>

> --

> Berg

> bberg@...

" Humans live on one-quarter of what they eat; on the other three-quarters lives

their doctor. "

--Egyptian pyramid inscription, 3800 B.C.

[Guest guest]

Fresh cider (apple juice) turns delightfully bubbly just sitting in the

frig. I wouldn't think they worried about any special yeasts.

Peace,

Kris , gardening in harmony with nature in northwest Ohio

http://home.woh.rr.com/billkrisjohnson/

For good news about beef, raised and finished on pasture:

http://home.woh.rr.com/billkrisjohnson/Kris/GoodNewsPage.htm

Re: fermented drinks without whey

> In a message dated 7/29/03 1:20:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> heidis@... writes:

>

> > Anyway, I can drink kefir cider all night, but one martini

> > and I'm done for. You CAN make a pretty high-alcohol cider out of apple

> > juice, but it is more work and looking at the way the pioneers did it,

I'd

> > guess theirs wasn't too high in alcohol.

> >

>

> I'm just wondering whether rural people who made their own cider used

these

> yeasts or not. I have no idea.

>

> > But what is a " shoe shop in OSV? "

> >

>

> Ha! Old Sturbridge Village, where I'm working right now, is a living

history

> museum. Sometimes I work in the shoe shop where we bottom shoes. On

those

> days, I'm actually in Shoes/Pottery or " Shpots " as they now call it, and

in all

> truth I try to avoid going to shoes and stay in potter if I can :-)

Anyway

> there is a sign on the wall which I believe to be a copy of an authentic

for

> the Boston Intemperance Society with a bunch of resolutions bashing the

> Temperance Movement. Shoe shops were where people would bottom shoes.

They were

> usually young people doing piece work for a manufacturer, and they rented

space in

> the shoe shop for social reasons, b/c shoe-making is boring, and they

usually

> drank some kind of liquor while they worked.

>

> > Good question. I'd guess if you just chewed the leaves, you'd

> > get accustomed to that amount of opium, as it would be difficult to

> > keep increasing the dose. When folks are on morphine for pain

> > management, the mental effects decrease even though the

> > pain killing remains the same -- if you are taking morphine

> > for the " high " you have to keep increasing the dose. Which

> > is interesting in terms of autistic kids -- if the gluten or casein

> > was acting like normal opioids, they should just " get used " to

> > it? Maybe:

> >

> > A. Gluten and casein act as opioids for EVERYONE, but the autistic

> > people lack the capacity to adapt to it. Or,

> >

> > B. Gluten and casein don't act like normal opioids (or like ANY opioids,

> > maybe it is a different reaction).

>

>

> So much on which to wonder... :-)

>

> Chris

>

>

>

>