Re: B Vitamins on Grain Free Diet in Pregnancy

[Guest guest]

Hi Daphne,

there were two issues of the price-pottenger health and healing wisdom

journal--vol. 26 nos. 2 and 3 (summer and fall 2002) that listed foods for each

vitamin and some minerals (issue no. 2 had vitamins). the list is lengthy but i

could start listing some if you like. the info is reprinted from dr. stephen

byrnes' book " the lazy person's whole food's cookbook " . the article says you can

get the book from his website www.Powerhealth.net

sonya

B Vitamins on Grain Free Diet in Pregnancy

As I said in previous post I am on SCD now. I believe I need B

vitamin supplementation. My folic acid/mag stearate pill gives me

heartburn. I got a yeast powder from Now Foods ('pleasant tasing')

that I have to choke down, it's gross, and probably not SCD legal

(probably has starch in it). What should I do for B-Vitamins,

preferably something I can get locally in San Francisco?

Can I get too much B-12, since my diet is high in animal foods? The

reason I ask is, most B combination supplements have like 800% RDA of

B-12 since they assume everyone health oriented is vegetarian. Maybe

I'm better off buying individual B's?

Is there a natural (not synthethetic) source of B's? I've read even

with many yeast products they feed synthethetic B's to the yeast and

that's what's in the final product. I always worry that synthetic B6

will harm my nervous system.

Food suggestions for B's, that do not include grains or starch, are

also welcome.

Thanks,

Daphne

[Guest guest]

Hello, I posted a few days ago on the Pregnancy thread and mentioned

that I was on a mostly grain/starch free diet during pregnancy. I

also did not take multivitamins or folic acid. What I took for B

vitamins was lots of fresh greens, like having a big salad every day

and raw liver and kidney. I eat the raw liver and kidney in a

smoothie with fruit, kefir or yogurt, honey, avocado and sometimes

butter. I know it sounds yucky, but it tastes good. As for getting

too much B12, I don't really know about this, but I would assume that

as long as the B12 is not in artificial supplement form, then you

probably will be okay. My midwife did a 4 day diet analysis and

found that my B12 intake was way high and seemed kind of freaked out

by it(she has a vegan orientation) but didn't say that I could OD on

it or anything.

Rebekah

> As I said in previous post I am on SCD now. I believe I need B

> vitamin supplementation. My folic acid/mag stearate pill gives me

> heartburn. I got a yeast powder from Now Foods ('pleasant tasing')

> that I have to choke down, it's gross, and probably not SCD legal

> (probably has starch in it). What should I do for B-Vitamins,

> preferably something I can get locally in San Francisco?

>

> Can I get too much B-12, since my diet is high in animal foods?

The

> reason I ask is, most B combination supplements have like 800% RDA

of

> B-12 since they assume everyone health oriented is vegetarian.

Maybe

> I'm better off buying individual B's?

>

> Is there a natural (not synthethetic) source of B's? I've read

even

> with many yeast products they feed synthethetic B's to the yeast

and

> that's what's in the final product. I always worry that synthetic

B6

> will harm my nervous system.

>

> Food suggestions for B's, that do not include grains or starch, are

> also welcome.

>

> Thanks,

> Daphne

[Guest guest]

Rebekah

<<As for getting too much B12, I don't really know about this...>

AFAIK, since B vitamins are 'water soluble' any excess will be secreted OUT of

the body.

Dedy

[Guest guest]

Daphne-

Raw liver!!!

>Is there a natural (not synthethetic) source of B's?

>Food suggestions for B's, that do not include grains or starch, are

>also welcome.

- Idol

oops! i mean " suze fisher " ;-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Suze-

LOL!

>oops! i mean " suze fisher "

-

[Guest guest]

Hi again,

or of course you could order a reprint of the issue. their website is

www.price-pottenger.org and check under the journals link.

sonya

B Vitamins on Grain Free Diet in Pregnancy

As I said in previous post I am on SCD now. I believe I need B

vitamin supplementation. My folic acid/mag stearate pill gives me

heartburn. I got a yeast powder from Now Foods ('pleasant tasing')

that I have to choke down, it's gross, and probably not SCD legal

(probably has starch in it). What should I do for B-Vitamins,

preferably something I can get locally in San Francisco?

Can I get too much B-12, since my diet is high in animal foods? The

reason I ask is, most B combination supplements have like 800% RDA of

B-12 since they assume everyone health oriented is vegetarian. Maybe

I'm better off buying individual B's?

Is there a natural (not synthethetic) source of B's? I've read even

with many yeast products they feed synthethetic B's to the yeast and

that's what's in the final product. I always worry that synthetic B6

will harm my nervous system.

Food suggestions for B's, that do not include grains or starch, are

also welcome.

Thanks,

Daphne

[Guest guest]

Hi - Er, Suze -

Right now in my freezer I have two enormous beef hearts, a kidney,

sweetbreads, tongue, oxtail, shanks, and cheeks (I think that's it).

I drove 1.5 to a grass-fed farm to buy all this, and went a bit

overboard with stuff I've never cooked before.

Made beef cheeks the first night which are very fat, and I

overindulged. Now the thought of all this meat in my freezer is

frankly grossing me out. I don't usually have food aversions so

pregnancy may have something to do with it.

I had hamburger from the farm which we went through fast. I

defrosted one of the kidneys in my fridge, left it too long, and

threw it away.

So is any of the stuff still in my freezer as good as liver (which I

did not get)? Heart, maybe? Can I defrost it and use some and re-

freeze? I don't know what I'm going to do with an enormous heart.

Honestly something about that farm scene freaked me out... it did not

match my idylic picture. The cows were black in color (didn't

recognize the breed the farmer told me) and looked kind of droopy

(skinny almost) and sad. More so than cows normally look, that is.

The farmer told me all the meat comes from steers which surprised me -

- I never thought about the sex of the beef I eat, but assumed

female. The grass was dry and yellow and sparse. I know these cows

are better off then corn-fed barn-raised cows but.... I wonder if

California, not being grassland, is not really a good place for

cows. And maybe my body is seeking foods more indigenous to the

environment I'm in. Just a thought.

Anyway I'll probably tackle the oxtail for soup, then the tongue. Is

tongue nutritious? I loved tongue as a kid but I'm now worried about

(1) small bones and gristle which according to joy of cooking will be

in the tongue and (2) hubbie's reaction. And it is a big tongue, I

hope he helps me eat it.

As for liver. Calf's liver from the store is just icky, haven't made

it taste good yet. Need to find some kosher chicken liver locally

and make chopped liver. Raw liver I just don't think I can handle.

If someone could tell me specifically (and I've posted about this

before) why raw meat is so much better than cooked I might be talked

into it. But all the advocates (and I heard Ron Schmidt at the

conference, in fact I met you there, Suze) are rather vague, though

speak glowingly, from a subjective standpoint, about the befits of

raw meat.

I do intent to try some raw ground lamb or maybe raw grassfed

hamburger, frozen 2 weeks, pretty soon.

Sorry for the mile long post but my freezer contents are bothering me.

Daphne

> Daphne-

>

> Raw liver!!!

>

>

> >Is there a natural (not synthethetic) source of B's?

>

> >Food suggestions for B's, that do not include grains or starch,

are

> >also welcome.

>

>

>

> - Idol

>

>

>

>

> oops! i mean " suze fisher " ;-)

>

> Suze Fisher

> Lapdog Design, Inc.

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

> mailto:s.fisher22@v...

[Guest guest]

Hi - Er, Suze -

----> ;-)

So is any of the stuff still in my freezer as good as liver (which I

did not get)? Heart, maybe?

---->it's all good :-) but liver is the best source of b vitamins

specifically. i'm not sure how these other organ meats stack up in terms of

b's. maybe the real paul idol (or someone else) knows...

>>>Honestly something about that farm scene freaked me out... it did not

match my idylic picture. The cows were black in color (didn't

recognize the breed the farmer told me) and looked kind of droopy

(skinny almost) and sad.

---->that doesn't sound like a good sign....

>>>> More so than cows normally look, that is.

The farmer told me all the meat comes from steers which surprised me -

- I never thought about the sex of the beef I eat, but assumed

female.

----->the females are typically used for milking, the males for beef.

>>>>As for liver. Calf's liver from the store is just icky, haven't made

it taste good yet.

---->my personal feeling is that i wouldn't buy liver from the supermarket

and especially not calf's liver. from a humane standpoint alone, calf's

liver is the thing i'd avoid most. i don't recall exactly how these calves

are raised, but i believe they are isolated in tiny stalls, never see the

light of day, and i thought i'd read something about induced anemia that

results in that pale flesh typical of veal calves. you can get

non-conventionally raised veal liver from a grass farmer in which the calves

are raised naturally outdoors, though. but of course you won't find that in

the supermarket.

>>>>Raw liver I just don't think I can handle.

If someone could tell me specifically (and I've posted about this

before) why raw meat is so much better than cooked I might be talked

into it. But all the advocates (and I heard Ron Schmidt at the

conference, in fact I met you there, Suze) are rather vague, though

speak glowingly, from a subjective standpoint, about the befits of

raw meat.

---->i'm not sure you're going to be able to find *objective* evidence of

the benefits of raw meat over cooked. if you do, please post it here! we

just had a discussion about this on the chapter leader list the past few

days, coincidentally, and all we could come up with were anecdotal

experiences - no proof of raw being easier or harder to digest. so, if

anecdotal evidence means anything to you, i find that i digest raw meat much

better than cooked (am doing almost all raw meat to deal with a digestive

problem for the past several weeks), and as you've probably seen on this

list, a number of other folks have found this too. i don't know *why*

though, and that's why i asked the question of what cooking specifically

does to proteins earlier. but i'm a believer in " what works, works, even

though i don't know why " :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Suze,

>>my personal feeling is that i wouldn't buy liver from the supermarket and

especially not calf's liver. from a humane standpoint alone, calf's liver is the

thing i'd avoid most. i don't recall exactly how these calves are raised, but i

believe they are isolated in tiny stalls, never see the light of day, and i

thought i'd read something about induced anemia that results in that pale flesh

typical of veal calves. you can get non-conventionally raised veal liver from a

grass farmer in which the calves are raised naturally outdoors, though. but of

course you won't find that in the supermarket.>>

----- here in the UK, the organic regulations, by the Soil Association, mean

that you CAN'T get organic calf liver or meat as the calves have to be naturally

weaned [at 8 or 9 months] by which time they do they are no longer considered

'calves' [think that's just a couple of months old or so].

Dedy

[Guest guest]

Try lamb liver in a V8 type juice(blended really well). Practically

tasteless!! And this is coming from a picky pregnant person!!

As far as raw meat goes, there are a few reasons why it is more

digestable. First of all, proteins are altered by heat in such a way

as to resist digestive juices. The more you cook it, the harder it

is to digest it. That's where Pottenger's work with gelatin comes

into play. He found that the properties of gelatin kept the cooked

meat from resisting the digestive juices and it digests much better.

Also when you are cooking something, you are destroying the live

enzymes in the food, which is harder on the body also as it must use

it's own enzymes to digest it.

The raw protein is also much more usable by the body. I found that

when I started a raw diet with lots of raw animal protein (meat,

eggs, fish, milk, etc..) that my muscles got larger and more defined

looking. And I was not working out or anything! I did not tire as

easily either. Raw liver is the *best thing* for energy!!

I would not recommend starting out with raw ground beef. The texture

is really nasty to me. I would do a very rare fillet, then maybe

steak tartar using minced fillet. Corned beef is good too.

Raw meat has done phenomenal things for my health and I highly

recommend it!

Becky

Raw liver I just don't think I can handle.

> If someone could tell me specifically (and I've posted about this

> before) why raw meat is so much better than cooked I might be

talked

> into it. But all the advocates (and I heard Ron Schmidt at the

> conference, in fact I met you there, Suze) are rather vague, though

> speak glowingly, from a subjective standpoint, about the befits of

> raw meat.

>

> I do intent to try some raw ground lamb or maybe raw grassfed

> hamburger, frozen 2 weeks, pretty soon.

[Guest guest]

----- here in the UK, the organic regulations, by the Soil Association, mean

that you CAN'T get organic calf liver or meat as the calves have to be

naturally weaned [at 8 or 9 months] by which time they do they are no longer

considered 'calves' [think that's just a couple of months old or so].

----->oh, that's interesting. my comments were US-centric as usual, i guess.

LOL. when will i remember there's a whole world out there with different

practices/rules/regulations than here at the center of the planet? ;-) but

seriously, now that i think about it, i may have gotten " young cattle "

liver? " teenage calf " liver? " juvenile " liver? i'm pretty sure it wasn't

from a 2-month old, but more like 6-month old, IIRC. so maybe it's not

technically " calves " liver, just the liver of a young bovine. no idea what

they call *that*! just " beef liver " maybe...

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

do you get free range/organic meats locally? and what do you to to

prepare the raw meats for eating? i'm afraid to eat any meat from a

grocery store raw. rare scares me at times, but i do it anyway.

been lucky so far. i'm also planning for pregnancy in the future and

would like to do more raw things, but i just haven't been able to.

suggestions?

> Try lamb liver in a V8 type juice(blended really well).

Practically

> tasteless!! And this is coming from a picky pregnant person!!

>

> As far as raw meat goes, there are a few reasons why it is more

> digestable. First of all, proteins are altered by heat in such a

way

> as to resist digestive juices. The more you cook it, the harder it

> is to digest it. That's where Pottenger's work with gelatin comes

> into play. He found that the properties of gelatin kept the cooked

> meat from resisting the digestive juices and it digests much

better.

>

> Also when you are cooking something, you are destroying the live

> enzymes in the food, which is harder on the body also as it must

use

> it's own enzymes to digest it.

>

> The raw protein is also much more usable by the body. I found that

> when I started a raw diet with lots of raw animal protein (meat,

> eggs, fish, milk, etc..) that my muscles got larger and more

defined

> looking. And I was not working out or anything! I did not tire as

> easily either. Raw liver is the *best thing* for energy!!

>

> I would not recommend starting out with raw ground beef. The

texture

> is really nasty to me. I would do a very rare fillet, then maybe

> steak tartar using minced fillet. Corned beef is good too.

>

> Raw meat has done phenomenal things for my health and I highly

> recommend it!

>

> Becky

>

>

>

> Raw liver I just don't think I can handle.

> > If someone could tell me specifically (and I've posted about this

> > before) why raw meat is so much better than cooked I might be

> talked

> > into it. But all the advocates (and I heard Ron Schmidt at the

> > conference, in fact I met you there, Suze) are rather vague,

though

> > speak glowingly, from a subjective standpoint, about the befits

of

> > raw meat.

> >

> > I do intent to try some raw ground lamb or maybe raw grassfed

> > hamburger, frozen 2 weeks, pretty soon.

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>maybe the real paul idol (or someone else) knows...

Will the real Idol please stand up? <g>

Well, kidney has some B12, but liver is basically THE organ to eat if you

want B vitamins. The other organs and glands are mainly good for other things.

>and all we could come up with were anecdotal

>experiences - no proof of raw being easier or harder to digest. so, if

>anecdotal evidence means anything to you,

AFAIK it's pretty much proven that cooked meat is hydrophobic and thus

doesn't mix as well with acid in the stomach whereas raw meat is mixed into

a pretty homogenous chyme. There's also hard data on gut transit times,

though of course different people draw different conclusions from the

difference in transit times. Our digestive systems expect and are

optimized for specific kinds of proteins denatured in specific ways; other

forms of denaturing range from tolerable to really bad.

-

[Guest guest]

Yes, I've come to know a few local grassfed meat producers in my

area. You can check out eatwild.com and I think there is another

site that will give you info in your area. I do not use meat from

the grocery store, except for s beef when I run out of my

source and then I try to make sure it's marinated in whey (corned

beef recipe). As far as preparation goes, I use recipes in

Nourishing Traditions and any others I happen to run across in other

cookbooks, which is very unusual. Steak tartar is pretty good and

you can find recipes on the net I bet. Eggs are easy to eat raw in

fruit/cream smoothies. Just make sure you get them from a local

person who cares about the health of their chickens. Then raw milk

and raw milk cheese are even easier to eat raw....

Feel free to ask me any questions if you need more ideas..

Becky

> do you get free range/organic meats locally? and what do you to to

> prepare the raw meats for eating? i'm afraid to eat any meat from

a

> grocery store raw. rare scares me at times, but i do it anyway.

> been lucky so far. i'm also planning for pregnancy in the future

and

> would like to do more raw things, but i just haven't been able to.

> suggestions?

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

A good source for raw meat recipes and sauces can be found here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~welive/Rcpebook.html

You might find the book's approach way outside of your comfort zone but

the recipes are good and worth adding to your stockpile.

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:37:58 -0000

" floutdoorcpl " <bchbmnsgrbr@...> wrote:

> do you get free range/organic meats locally? and what do you to to

> prepare the raw meats for eating? i'm afraid to eat any meat from a

> grocery store raw. rare scares me at times, but i do it anyway.

> been lucky so far. i'm also planning for pregnancy in the future and

> would like to do more raw things, but i just haven't been able to.

> suggestions?

>

>

>

>

>

> > Try lamb liver in a V8 type juice(blended really well).

> Practically

> > tasteless!! And this is coming from a picky pregnant person!!

> >

> > As far as raw meat goes, there are a few reasons why it is more

> > digestable. First of all, proteins are altered by heat in such a

> way

> > as to resist digestive juices. The more you cook it, the harder it

> > is to digest it. That's where Pottenger's work with gelatin comes

> > into play. He found that the properties of gelatin kept the cooked

> > meat from resisting the digestive juices and it digests much

> better.

> >

> > Also when you are cooking something, you are destroying the live

> > enzymes in the food, which is harder on the body also as it must

> use

> > it's own enzymes to digest it.

> >

> > The raw protein is also much more usable by the body. I found that

> > when I started a raw diet with lots of raw animal protein (meat,

> > eggs, fish, milk, etc..) that my muscles got larger and more

> defined

> > looking. And I was not working out or anything! I did not tire as

> > easily either. Raw liver is the *best thing* for energy!!

> >

> > I would not recommend starting out with raw ground beef. The

> texture

> > is really nasty to me. I would do a very rare fillet, then maybe

> > steak tartar using minced fillet. Corned beef is good too.

> >

> > Raw meat has done phenomenal things for my health and I highly

> > recommend it!

> >

> > Becky

> >

> >

> >

> > Raw liver I just don't think I can handle.

> > > If someone could tell me specifically (and I've posted about this

> > > before) why raw meat is so much better than cooked I might be

> > talked

> > > into it. But all the advocates (and I heard Ron Schmidt at the

> > > conference, in fact I met you there, Suze) are rather vague,

> though

> > > speak glowingly, from a subjective standpoint, about the befits

> of

> > > raw meat.

> > >

> > > I do intent to try some raw ground lamb or maybe raw grassfed

> > > hamburger, frozen 2 weeks, pretty soon.

>

" Humans live on one-quarter of what they eat; on the other three-quarters lives

their doctor. "

--Egyptian pyramid inscription, 3800 B.C.