Guest guest Posted October 18, 2000 Report Share Posted October 18, 2000 > There are 612 dietary laws that make up kashruth, also known as Kosher. > Not drinking blood is one of them. > And not eating an animal that doesn't have a cloven hoof (horses are out). > And not eating seafood that has no scales is another (no lobster, clams, > shrimp). > The large femoral vein in the hind quarters of cows/steers must be cut out, > which > mostly ruins all the popular hind cuts. > No eating of milk/dairy after consumption of meat, for a minimum six hours. > Separate dishes for meat and milk/dairy meals. I tend to stay away from the uncleans, but I do bacon or sausage a few times a month. I don't do ham because it reminds me of human flesh - the other white meat. I can't eat shrimp at all - severe reaction to it. More and more though, I've realized that the Bible does say that if we give thanks in prayer over our food, that it is sanctified, so if I can remember to pray before eating, perhaps the " harmful " foods wont harm me. I'm still staying from shrimp.... and horse. All this blood discussion turns my stomach. I'm glad I've already finished my barbecue beef sandwich. Burp. JP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2000 Report Share Posted October 18, 2000 Dear , There are 612 dietary laws that make up kashruth, also known as Kosher. Not drinking blood is one of them. And not eating an animal that doesn't have a cloven hoof (horses are out). And not eating seafood that has no scales is another (no lobster, clams, shrimp). The large femoral vein in the hind quarters of cows/steers must be cut out, which mostly ruins all the popular hind cuts. No eating of milk/dairy after consumption of meat, for a minimum six hours. Separate dishes for meat and milk/dairy meals. Tough rules. Some of them even nonsensical. The origin of them all is one phrase in the Torah: " Thou shall not seethe a calf in its mother's milk. " From that the Hebrew, and later Jewish, priests extrapolated to 612 laws. These are now known to be priestly inventions (read control), and not handed down from Moses, because there are black Jews in Ethiopia (Falashas, who might also be called Paleo-Hebrews) who follow the precepts of Moses, but were separated from the mainstream shortly after the Exodus from Egypt in 1453 BCE, and who do not have the Kosher rules. They DO have the worship of Ashera, which was driven underground in Judea (but not extinguished) after the time of (d.932 BCE). They worshipped Ashera and Yahweh in open forest groves, much as the Druids are said to have done in Britain (info from the Romans who conquered them). There is a lot more I could say, so don't get me started ! Best of Health! Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh URL: http://www.plasmafire.com email: saul@... " The problems of today cannot be solved using the same thinking that created them " . - Einstein Re: Hydergine > With all this talk about eating raw meat, I have to ask: Isn't that what the > Old Testament talks about when it mentions not eating the blood? I'm not > Jewish so I'm not sure exactly what Kosher is, but I do know I like my meat > well done. The only raw meats I would " eat " would be glandular tablets or > New Zealand beef liver powder (from a can). > > > I > > love raw beef, even as a kid, I wanted my steak bloody and we used > > to eat raw meatballs with pepper and salt at the lake if the water > > level got so high, the beaches were covered. Someone told me once, > > craving raw meat meant you had diabetes. I believe I do have > > insulin resistance??? Cooked meat is so unhealthy though, still > > does not make me want to eat sushi . Deb > > > > > > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and > other alternative self-help subjects. > > > > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > > > > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here > are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing > information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your > own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to > take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to > hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found > here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher > or health care provider. > > > > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following > address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > > DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of > the message! : > > > > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups > > > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. > > > > > > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other alternative self-help subjects. > > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care provider. > > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! : > > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2000 Report Share Posted October 18, 2000 Dear Saul, then give it to us in small doses. Thansk, Jeff On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Saul Pressman wrote: > Dear , > > There are 612 dietary laws that make up kashruth, also known as Kosher. > Not drinking blood is one of them. > And not eating an animal that doesn't have a cloven hoof (horses are out). > And not eating seafood that has no scales is another (no lobster, clams, > shrimp). > The large femoral vein in the hind quarters of cows/steers must be cut out, > which > mostly ruins all the popular hind cuts. > No eating of milk/dairy after consumption of meat, for a minimum six hours. > Separate dishes for meat and milk/dairy meals. > > Tough rules. Some of them even nonsensical. > > The origin of them all is one phrase in the Torah: > " Thou shall not seethe a calf in its mother's milk. " > > >From that the Hebrew, and later Jewish, priests extrapolated to 612 laws. > > These are now known to be priestly inventions (read control), and not handed > down from Moses, because there are black Jews in Ethiopia (Falashas, who > might also be called Paleo-Hebrews) who follow the precepts of Moses, but > were separated from the mainstream shortly after the Exodus from Egypt in > 1453 BCE, and who do not have the Kosher rules. They DO have the worship of > Ashera, which was driven underground in Judea (but not extinguished) after > the time of (d.932 BCE). They worshipped Ashera and Yahweh in open > forest groves, much as the Druids are said to have done in Britain (info > from the Romans who conquered them). > > There is a lot more I could say, so don't get me started ! > > Best of Health! > Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh > > URL: http://www.plasmafire.com > email: saul@... > > " The problems of today cannot be solved using the same thinking that created > them " . - Einstein > > > Re: Hydergine > > > > With all this talk about eating raw meat, I have to ask: Isn't that what > the > > Old Testament talks about when it mentions not eating the blood? I'm not > > Jewish so I'm not sure exactly what Kosher is, but I do know I like my > meat > > well done. The only raw meats I would " eat " would be glandular tablets or > > New Zealand beef liver powder (from a can). > > > > > > I > > > love raw beef, even as a kid, I wanted my steak bloody and we used > > > to eat raw meatballs with pepper and salt at the lake if the water > > > level got so high, the beaches were covered. Someone told me once, > > > craving raw meat meant you had diabetes. I believe I do have > > > insulin resistance??? Cooked meat is so unhealthy though, still > > > does not make me want to eat sushi . Deb > > > > > > > > > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and > > other alternative self-help subjects. > > > > > > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > > > > > > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here > > are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing > > information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at > your > > own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability > to > > take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to > > hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found > > here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a > researcher > > or health care provider. > > > > > > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following > > address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > > > DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of > > the message! : > > > > > > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups > > > > > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal > mode. > > > > > > > > > > > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and > other alternative self-help subjects. > > > > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > > > > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here > are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing > information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your > own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to > take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to > hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found > here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher > or health care provider. > > > > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following > address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > > DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of > the message! : > > > > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups > > > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. > > > > > > > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other alternative self-help subjects. > > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care provider. > > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! : > > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2000 Report Share Posted October 18, 2000 A Hatcher wrote: > > Dear Saul, then give it to us in small doses. Thansk, Jeff > > On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Saul Pressman wrote: > > > Dear , > > > > There are 612 dietary laws that make up kashruth, also known as Kosher. > > Not drinking blood is one of them. I'm with Jeff. Saul, you whetted the apetite for more of the story. Please! Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2000 Report Share Posted October 18, 2000 I agree! Except I know it takes moments to write the request, and hours to write the answer. Also, I have to say something about list policy on religion. Because, the discussion of the history of kosher rules is, IMO, definitely on-topic, and therefore an exception to my rule about not discussing specific tenets of any religion, a stand I take out of respect for people of other religions who don't want to be proselytised. Dietary rules in religion come from, IMO, the needs of the times in which they were instituted, not the religious traditions of their faith per se. And, any history of the reasons for them is germaine in deciding whether or not to give them credence. For instance, when eating trash I prefer kosher hot dogs because at least somebody was paying attention to something! I am curious to learn health wisdom from any source, even if it was discovered by priests of a religion I do not follow. Sometimes I have to dance on the head of the pin with the angels to make decisions, but that's what moderators do. That's my official opinion on this subject. I say things like this to attempt to clarify the list policy on discussing religion. I am confounded when someone says something that shows they believe they cannot say the word god generically, as in, " God bless you! " Or, " I will pray for your recovery! " These are things that are common to all religions. If anyone objects to phrases as innocent as those we can all chuckle in amusement. I hope I have clarified something namaste, jim list moderator Sharon sey wrote: > > A Hatcher wrote: > > > > Dear Saul, then give it to us in small doses. Thansk, Jeff > > > > I'm with Jeff. > > Saul, you whetted the apetite for more of the story. Please! > > Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2000 Report Share Posted October 18, 2000 Jim Lambert wrote: > > I agree! Except I know it takes moments to write the request, and hours > to write the answer. > > Also, I have to say something about list policy on religion. Because, > the discussion of the history of kosher rules is, IMO, definitely > on-topic, and therefore an exception to my rule about not discussing > specific tenets of any religion, a stand I take out of respect for > people of other religions who don't want to be proselytised. I never even thought of this as a 'religious' subject, just a most fascinating historical one. Saul says the Ethiopian Jews are worshipping Ashera in the fashion of the Druids. Now this is leading to all kinds of 'hidden history' and begs to be told. I know one legend insists that the Ark of the Covenant is hidden in a cave in Ethiopia. And what was Haile Selaisse(sp?) called, the " Sun King " ? I don't think that's quite right, but it's something close. If it's too much to put on the list, Saul, can you reference a book? And Jim, get off that sharp pin and just dance with the angels on the ground<G> Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2000 Report Share Posted October 18, 2000 please please please i want a copy of all those laws. i am half jewish on the maternal side of my family for at least two generations back that i can trace. the laws made perfect sense according to modern dietary knowledge. meat takes six hours to digest and milk takes two. mixing the two is like snarfing toxic waste. how dem folk know dat back den? didja also know??? if you shine a light through a three diimensional tetrahedron onto a screen, all the letters of the hebrew alphabet are projected onto a screen set up to recieve the projection when the angle is right? and if you run the analog through an oscilloscope, the resultant whatchamacallit... soniform???.... looks like the hebrew name for the letter? yod looks like a hand, daleth looks like a door, gimel looks like a rope or a camel etc. just a llittle side trip for all you interested in historocity and technological theology. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2000 Report Share Posted October 18, 2000 it's not in a cave, it's in downtown addas abababa if i spelled it right. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2000 Report Share Posted October 19, 2000 Dear Jim, I agree with you 100%. I believe it is the things that are held in common with all religions that are important. And the #1 thing is The Golden Rule. Do not do unto others that which is hateful to you : the rule of common law. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you : the rule of social law. That says it all. Best of Health! Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh URL: http://www.plasmafire.com email: saul@... " The problems of today cannot be solved using the same thinking that created them " . - Einstein Re: Kosher > I agree! Except I know it takes moments to write the request, and hours > to write the answer. > > Also, I have to say something about list policy on religion. Because, > the discussion of the history of kosher rules is, IMO, definitely > on-topic, and therefore an exception to my rule about not discussing > specific tenets of any religion, a stand I take out of respect for > people of other religions who don't want to be proselytised. > > Dietary rules in religion come from, IMO, the needs of the times in > which they were instituted, not the religious traditions of their faith > per se. And, any history of the reasons for them is germaine in deciding > whether or not to give them credence. For instance, when eating trash I > prefer kosher hot dogs because at least somebody was paying attention to > something! I am curious to learn health wisdom from any source, even if > it was discovered by priests of a religion I do not follow. > > Sometimes I have to dance on the head of the pin with the angels to make > decisions, but that's what moderators do. That's my official opinion on > this subject. I say things like this to attempt to clarify the list > policy on discussing religion. I am confounded when someone says > something that shows they believe they cannot say the word god > generically, as in, " God bless you! " Or, " I will pray for your > recovery! " These are things that are common to all religions. If anyone > objects to phrases as innocent as those we can all chuckle in amusement. > > I hope I have clarified something > > namaste, > > jim > list moderator > > Sharon sey wrote: > > > > A Hatcher wrote: > > > > > > Dear Saul, then give it to us in small doses. Thansk, Jeff > > > > > > > I'm with Jeff. > > > > Saul, you whetted the apetite for more of the story. Please! > > > > Sharon > > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other alternative self-help subjects. > > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care provider. > > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! : > > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2000 Report Share Posted October 19, 2000 OK here's one for yas that may provoke some interesting comments. My mom read that when (Catholicism) was being organised, the clergy, in combining existing writings into the first real Bible, deliberately REMOVED all references to reincarnation. After all, thay couldn't have that and still control the people, now, could they?? everything is resonance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2000 Report Share Posted October 19, 2000 read about the council lof nicea, you won't believe the hooey they rang in at that confab. i'd tell you, but it's just to bizzar-O to believe unless you read it yourself. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2000 Report Share Posted October 19, 2000 WOULD YOU PLEASE GET ME OFF YOUR EMAIL LIST PLEASE I'M GETTING ALL KINDS OF EMAIL JUNK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2000 Report Share Posted October 19, 2000 Folks, I found Saul's posts scholarly, informative and non-sectarian. But, this new thread, while also history, is religion-specifix & that, considering the delicacy of the subject, IMO is getting close to an area where some members might reasonably either feel offended or begin to answer in a manner that might then be construed as defensive, which begins a process which ends in a lot of unnecessary anger over a subject that is, in the end, off-topic. If you had been the moderator during the list's religious war 18 months ago you might be as hair-trigger as I am. I realize that trying to draw a line that everyone will find in the same place is not realistic. It's like the legislature trying to define art. Especially for newer members. Sorry, I am an idealist. Don't think I'll let it happen again. ;-) BTW, I HAVE to read every possibility into some things. That is my job description as moderator! I have discovered that, unless I react quickly when I feel I must, the list winds up with at least 50 opinions that are also off topic and we have, at minimum, days of list dischord. Let us not go there! I see three possiblities. First, all posts on religioun-related topics could be sent to me for approval before posting them to the list. I don't like that one. Or, everyone can enter into a ticklish discussion with the greatest of caution, re-reading their answers to this thread before sending them, to give them what I call an " attitude-ectomy. " And, all listmembers who aren't comfortable with a topic would also stop following that thread, deleting them unread. But, this one is not very realistic, is it? Occasionally on a list an off-topic subject comes up that numerous members wish to pursue briefly. I don't have any problem with that. Politically, I am a minarchist, which means I prefer minimum government. So, I try to interfere in the happenings on the list as little as humanly possible to maintain a relatively polite list. What I say is only official if I sign it as the " list moderator " under my name. Otherwise, it's just us chickens. ;-) I would like to allow discussion on a thread like this one, but only if it were done in an adult, informative level, and doesn't come off sounding to some like gossip or disrespect. But, my experience is that too many people's inner child comes out when discussing religion, abortion, politics and all the other hot-button issues. People with short fuses & poor impulse control create the necessity of governing at the level of the lowest common denominator. I'm not talking about the two posts so far, but about the ones that will follow if I don't repair my mistake fast. I shouldn't have tinkered with a running machine. The risk is, IMO, that some sincere listmembers who are here for the stated topic of this list might feel compelled to leave the list and I don't feel that is fair. I am refreshingly astounded every week with the scope and detail of information that passes by here. I feel this has somehow turned into a valuable resource to those of us who find it. I don't want to take the chance on chasing away one person who might find information here that could help them end their own or someone else's misery! While I have faith in people I am also a realist. As the Arabs say, " Trust in the Lord, but tie your camel! " Fortunately, Erma has afforded us a third, and possibly better choice. Those of us who are interested in following threads like this, as I am, can do so on her new list. It can be found at: Oxyplus_OffTopic I joined. I am going to post an answer to the thread that started this there, under the more appropriate title: " new testament origen " In other words, I think we better go back to the old rule avoiding any discussion of religion that is not health-related. Please stop this thread. I have seen the error of my ways. I apologise for the length of this post for busy people, but it takes a lot of words to dance on the head of a pin. ;-) So..... The Great and Powerful Oz has Spoken! Please send all posts on this thread and any reaction to or discussion of my decision privately, even the always appreciated votes of confidence. Or, to Erma's off-topic list. ;-) You can even bash me there because I'm not the moderator! :) Aren't you curious what I'm gonna say? ;-)) P.S.: I have been asked what " namaste " at the bottom of some of my posts means. This is an appropriate time to answer. A search found this: " Namaste " " I honor the place in you where Spirit lives I honor the place in you which is of Love, of Truth, of Light, of Peace, when you are in that place in you, and I am in that place in me, then we are One. " (It is an ancient Sanskrit blessing) The written language lacks all the body language that English requires to demonstrate that one is coming from a place that fully respects the person being addressed. I am frequently considered an odd bird. For crying out loud, my favorite musician is Randy Newman! That's weird enough by itself! But, it is rare that anyone feels threatened by me in person unless I am actually threatening, which is even rarer. children, dogs, women -- almost everyone who meets me likes me. I believe it is because I was a class clown in school and I developed some knack or give off some vibe that tells people I mean no harm! That has been my life experience with at least 85% of the humans I have met, even without spoken language. BUT, whatever this quality is, it does not transfer through the written word well. Or, at least, writing is so inferior at communicating that quality that many folks don't always get me, sort of like Dennis 's Monday Night Football references. And, some take me the wrong way. It happens to me in real life, but not nearly so often. This form of the internet currently runs on the written word, and that limitation is the cause, IMO, of 95% of all misunderstandings. I also believe that a lot of people's skin is too thin and that they are too quick to parry from emotion, or too stubborn to make peace easily, or both. Certain issues just seem to bring this out. In my personal belief system I assume a spark of the Divine in everyone. WHen I feel it is appropriate I use the only expression I have ever heard that conveys who I am and where I'm coming from in one word. Anyone who believes I have been judgmental, uncaring or arrogant with them is encouraged to assume the best of me instead of the worst. I'm more of an intellectual snob than I like about myself and I have strong opinions. BUT, I DON'T expect you to agree! The only people I consider beneath me are those who deliberately abuse others. namaste, jim > OK here's one for yas that may provoke some interesting comments. My mom > read that when (Catholicism) was being organised, the clergy, in combining > existing writings into the first real Bible, deliberately REMOVED all > references to reincarnation. After all, thay couldn't have that and still > control the people, now, could they?? > > everything is resonance. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2000 Report Share Posted October 19, 2000 Jim, To the still mind the whole universe surrenders. PK, new to list. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2000 Report Share Posted October 19, 2000 Phil, Instructions to unsubscribe are at the bottom of every post from the list, including this one. You have to do it. If you can't for some reason, go to www./mygroups, log in, and you can do it there. jim PHILINSS@... wrote: > > WOULD YOU PLEASE GET ME OFF YOUR EMAIL LIST PLEASE I'M GETTING ALL KINDS OF > EMAIL JUNK > > > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other alternative self-help subjects. > > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care provider. > > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! : > > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2000 Report Share Posted October 19, 2000 > Jim, > To the still mind the whole universe surrenders. > PK, new to list. To the still mind, the whole universe is nothing other than what it already is anyway - which makes your observation rather tautological. More to the point, as a fully oxygenated Sufi teacher once said, " Of course we're all one. Now, how are we different? " Welcome to the list. Colin Yardley :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2000 Report Share Posted October 19, 2000 phil... FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS AT THE BOTTOM OF ALMOST EVERY SINGLE BLEEDING POST THAT SHOWS UP ON YOUR SCREEN. AND FOR CRIMMINEY SAKES STOP YELLING AT US!!! Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2000 Report Share Posted October 19, 2000 Jim Lambert wrote: IMO is getting close to an area where some > members might reasonably either feel offended or begin to answer in a > manner that might then be construed as defensive, which begins a process > which ends in a lot of unnecessary anger over a subject that is, in the > end, off-topic. Maybe Saul could start a Kosher list!. I was not offended by any of that. Even made me think about what I eat. Shrimp, lobster, crab, ect. If it is health related coming directly from the Bible, why close our eyes to that? BTW. Jim, I forgot to give you you your proper due with helping your friend yesterday. I have been there too. Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2000 Report Share Posted October 19, 2000 Colin, Indeed, thanks. Of course the still mind does allow us to realize the " namaste " as Jim would say. >From: " Colin Yardley " <cyardley@...> >Reply-oxyplusegroups ><oxyplusegroups> >Subject: Re: Re: Kosher >Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:41:01 -0700 > > > > Jim, > > To the still mind the whole universe surrenders. > > PK, new to list. > >To the still mind, the whole universe is nothing other than what it already >is anyway - which makes your observation rather tautological. More to the >point, as a fully oxygenated Sufi teacher once said, " Of course we're all >one. Now, how are we different? " >Welcome to the list. >Colin Yardley :-) > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2000 Report Share Posted October 19, 2000 Ah, yes..... A pox on those millions of AOL CD's. Chuck Just think of it as a live role-playing game! On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:17:53 EDT, PHILINSS@... wrote: >WOULD YOU PLEASE GET ME OFF YOUR EMAIL LIST PLEASE I'M GETTING ALL KINDS OF >EMAIL JUNK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2000 Report Share Posted November 9, 2000 Kashrut: Jewish Dietary Laws Level: Intermediate Kashrut is the body of Jewish law dealing with what foods we can and cannot eat and how those foods must be prepared and eaten. " Kashrut " comes from the Hebrew root Kaf-Shin-Resh, meaning fit, proper or correct. It is the same root as the more commonly known word " kosher, " which describes food that meets these standards. The word " kosher " can also be used, and often is used, to describe ritual objects that are made in accordance with Jewish law and are fit for ritual use. There is no such thing as " kosher-style " food. Kosher is not a style of cooking. Chinese food can be kosher if it is prepared in accordance with Jewish law, and there are many fine kosher Chinese restaurants in Philadelphia and New York. Traditional Ashkenazic Jewish foods like knishes, bagels, blintzes, and matzah ball soup can all be non-kosher if not prepared in accordance with Jewish law. When a restaurant calls itself " kosher-style, " it usually means that the restaurant serves these traditional Jewish foods, and it almost invariably means that the food is not actually kosher. Food that is not kosher is commonly referred to as treyf (lit. torn, from the commandment not to eat animals that have been torn by other animals). Why Do We Observe the Laws of Kashrut? Many modern Jews think that the laws of kashrut are simply primitive health regulations that have become obsolete with modern methods of food preparation. There is no question that some of the dietary laws have some beneficial health effects. For example, the laws regarding kosher slaughter are so sanitary that kosher butchers and slaughterhouses have been exempted from many USDA regulations. However, health is not the only reason for Jewish dietary laws. Many of the laws of kashrut have no known connection with health. To the best of our modern scientific knowledge, there is no reason why camel or rabbit meat (both treyf) is any less healthy than cow or goat meat. In addition, some of the health benefits to be derived from kashrut were not made obsolete by the refrigerator. For example, there is some evidence that eating meat and dairy together interferes with digestion, and no modern food preparation technique reproduces the health benefit of the kosher law of eating them separately. The short answer to why we observe these laws is: because the Torah says so. The Torah does not specify any reason for these laws, and for a Torah-observant, traditional Jew, there is no need for any other reason. Some have suggested that the laws of kashrut fall into the category of " chukkim, " laws for which there is no reason. We show our obedience to G-d by following these laws even though we do not know the reason. Others, however, have tried to ascertain G-d's reason for imposing these laws. In his book " To Be a Jew " (an excellent resource on traditional Judaism), Rabbi Hayim Halevy Donin suggests that the dietary laws are designed as a call to holiness. The ability to distinguish between right and wrong, good and evil, pure and defiled, the sacred and the profane, is very important in Judaism. Imposing rules on what you can and cannot eat ingrains that kind of self control. In addition, it elevates the simple act of eating into a religious ritual. The Jewish dinner table is often compared to the Temple altar in rabbinic literature. How Difficult is it to Keep Kosher? People who do not keep kosher often tell me how difficult it is. Actually, keeping kosher is not particularly difficult in and of itself; what makes it difficult to keep kosher is the fact that the rest of the world does not do so. As we shall see below, the basic underlying rules are fairly simple. If you buy your meat at a kosher butcher and buy only kosher certified products at the market, the only thing you need to think about is the separation of meat and dairy. Keeping kosher only becomes difficult when you try to eat in a non-kosher restaurant, or at the home of a person who does not keep kosher. In those situations, your lack of knowledge about your host's ingredients and the food preparation techniques make it very difficult to keep kosher. Some commentators have pointed out, however, that this may well have been part of what G-d had in mind: to make it more difficult for us to socialize with those who do not share our religion. General Rules Although the details of kashrut are extensive, the laws all derive from a few fairly simple, straightforward rules: Certain animals may not be eaten at all. This restriction includes the flesh, organs, eggs and milk of the forbidden animals. Of the animals that may be eaten, the birds and mammals must be killed in accordance with Jewish law. All blood must be drained from the meat or broiled out of it before it is eaten. Certain parts of permitted animals may not be eaten. Meat (the flesh of birds and mammals) cannot be eaten with dairy. Fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables and grains can be eaten with either meat or dairy. (According to some views, fish may not be eaten with meat). Utensils that have come into contact with meat may not be used with dairy, and vice versa. Utensils that have come into contact with non-kosher food may not be used with kosher food. This applies only where the contact occurred while the food was hot. Grape products made by non-Jews may not be eaten. The Details Animals that may not be eaten Of the " beasts of the earth " (which basically refers to land mammals with the exception of swarming rodents), you may eat any animal that has cloven hooves and chews its cud. Lev. 11:3; Deut. 14:6. Any land mammal that does not have both of these qualities is forbidden. The Torah specifies that the camel, the rock badger, the hare and the pig are not kosher because each lacks one of these two qualifications. Sheep, cattle, goats and deer are kosher. Of the things that are in the waters, you may eat anything that has fins and scales. Lev. 11:9; Deut. 14:9. Thus, shellfish such as lobsters, oysters, shrimp, clams and crabs are all forbidden. Fish like tuna, carp, salmon and herring are all permitted. For birds, the criteria is less clear. The Torah lists forbidden birds (Lev. 11:13-19; Deut. 14:11-18), but does not specify why these particular birds are forbidden. All of the birds on the list are birds of prey or scavengers, thus the rabbis inferred that this was the basis for the distinction. Other birds are permitted, such as chicken, geese, ducks and turkeys. Of the " winged swarming things " (winged insects), a few are specifically permitted (Lev. 11:22), but the Sages are no longer certain which ones they are, so all have been forbidden. Rodents, reptiles, amphibians, and insects (except as mentioned above) are all forbidden. Lev. 11:29-30, 42-43. Some authorities require a post-mortem examination of the lungs of cattle, to determine whether the lungs are free from adhesions. If the lungs are free from such adhesions, the animal is deemed " glatt " (that is, " smooth " ). In certain circumstances, an animal can be kosher without being glatt; however, the stringency of keeping " glatt kosher " has become increasingly common in recent years. As mentioned above, any product derived from these forbidden animals, such as their milk, eggs, fat, or organs, also cannot be eaten. Rennet, an enzyme used to harden cheese, is often obtained from non-kosher animals, thus kosher hard cheese can be difficult to find. Kosher slaughtering The mammals and birds that may be eaten must be slaughtered in accordance with Jewish law. (Deut. 12:21). We may not eat animals that died of natural causes (Deut. 14:21) or that were killed by other animals. In addition, the animal must have no disease or flaws in the organs at the time of slaughter. These restrictions do not apply to fish; only to the flocks and herds (Num. 11:22). Ritual slaughter is known as shechitah, and the person who performs the slaughter is called a shochet, both from the Hebrew root Shin-Chet-Tav, meaning to destroy or kill. The method of slaughter is a quick, deep stroke across the throat with a perfectly sharp blade with no nicks or unevenness. This method is painless, causes unconsciousness within two seconds, and is widely recognized as the most humane method of slaughter possible. Another advantage of shechitah is that ensures rapid, complete draining of the blood, which is also necessary to render the meat kosher. The shochet is not simply a butcher; he must be a pious man, well-trained in Jewish law, particularly as it relates to kashrut. In smaller, more remote communities, the rabbi and the shochet were often the same person. Draining of Blood The Torah prohibits consumption of blood. Lev. 7:26-27; Lev. 17:10-14. This is the only dietary law that has a reason specified in Torah: we do not eat blood because the life of the animal is contained in the blood. This applies only to the blood of birds and mammals, not to fish blood. Thus, it is necessary to remove all blood from the flesh of kosher animals. The first step in this process occurs at the time of slaughter. As discussed above, shechitah allows for rapid draining of most of the blood. The remaining blood must be removed, either by broiling or soaking and salting. Liver may only be kashered by the broiling method, because it has so much blood in it and such complex blood vessels. This final process must be completed within 72 hours after slaughter, and before the meat is frozen or ground. Most butchers and all frozen food vendors take care of the soaking and salting for you, but you should always check this when you are buying someplace you are unfamiliar with. An egg that contains a blood spot may not be eaten. This isn't very common, but I find them once in a while. It is a good idea to break an egg into a container and check it before you put it into a heated pan, because if you put a blood-stained egg into a heated pan, the pan becomes non-kosher. Forbidden Fats and Nerves The sciatic nerve and its adjoining blood vessels may not be eaten. The process of removing this nerve is time consuming and not cost-effective, so most American slaughterers simply sell the hind quarters to non-kosher butchers. A certain kind of fat, known as chelev, which surrounds the vital organs and the liver, may not be eaten. Kosher butchers remove this. Modern scientists have found biochemical differences between this type of fat and the permissible fat around the muscles and under the skin. Separation of Meat and Dairy On three separate occasions, the Torah tells us not to " boil a kid in its mother's milk. " (Ex. 23:19; Ex. 34:26; Deut. 14:21). The Oral Torah explains that this passage prohibits eating meat and dairy together. The rabbis extended this prohibition to include not eating milk and poultry together. In addition, the Talmud prohibits cooking meat and fish together or serving them on the same plates, because it is considered to be unhealthy. It is, however, permissible to eat fish and dairy together, and it is quite common. It is also permissible to eat dairy and eggs together. This separation includes not only the foods themselves, but the utensils, pots and pans with which they are cooked, the plates and flatware from which they are eaten, the dishwashers or dishpans in which they are cleaned, and the towels on which they are dried. A kosher household will have at least two sets of pots, pans and dishes: one for meat and one for dairy. See Utensils below for more details. One must wait a significant amount of time between eating meat and dairy. Opinions differ, and vary from three to six hours. This is because fatty residues and meat particles tend to cling to the mouth. From dairy to meat, however, one need only rinse one's mouth and eat a neutral solid like bread, unless the dairy product in question is also of a type that tends to stick in the mouth. The Yiddish words fleishig (meat), milchig (dairy) and pareve (neutral) are commonly used to describe food or utensils that fall into one of those categories. Note that even the smallest quantity of dairy (or meat) in something renders it entirely dairy (or meat) for purposes of kashrut. For example, most margarines are dairy for kosher purposes, because they contain a small quantity of whey or other dairy products to give it a dairy-like taste. Animal fat is considered meat for purposes of kashrut. You should read the ingredients very carefully, even if the product is kosher-certified. Utensils Utensils (pots, pans, plates, flatware, etc., etc.) must also be kosher. A utensil picks up the kosher " status " (meat, dairy, pareve, or treyf) of the food that is cooked in it or eaten off of it, and transmits that status back to the next food that is cooked in it or eaten off of it. Thus, if you cook chicken soup in a saucepan, the pan becomes meat. If you thereafter use the same saucepan to heat up some warm milk, the fleishig status of the pan is transmitted to the milk, and the milchig status of the milk is transmitted to the pan, making both the pan and the milk a forbidden mixture. Kosher status can be transmitted from the food to the utensil or from the utensil to the food only in the presence of heat, thus if you are eating cold food in a non-kosher establishment, the condition of the plates is not an issue. Likewise, you could use the same knife to slice cold cuts and cheese, as long as you clean it in between, but this is not really a recommended procedure, because it increases the likelihood of mistakes. Stove tops and sinks routinely become non-kosher utensils, because they routinely come in contact with both meat and dairy in the presence of heat. It is necessary, therefore, to use dishpans when cleaning dishes (don't soak them directly in the sink) and to use separate spoon rests and trivets when putting things down on the stove top. Dishwashers are a kashrut problem. If you are going to use a dishwasher in a kosher home, you either need to have separate dish racks or you need to run the dishwasher in between meat and dairy loads. You should use separate towels and pot holders for meat and dairy. Routine laundering kashers such items, so you can simply launder them between using them for meat and dairy. Certain kinds of utensils can be " kashered " if you make a mistake and use it with both meat and dairy. Consult a rabbi for guidance if this situation occurs. Grape Products The restrictions on grape products derive from the laws against using products of idolatry. Wine was commonly used in the rituals of all ancient religions, and wine was routinely sanctified for pagan purposes while it was being processed. For this reason, use of wines and other grape products made by non-Jews was prohibited. (Whole grapes are not a problem, nor are whole grapes in fruit cocktail). For the most part, this rule only affects wine and grape juice. This becomes a concern with many fruit drinks or fruit-flavored drinks, which are often sweetened with grape juice. You may also notice that it is virtually impossible to find kosher baking powder, because baking powder is made with cream of tartar, a by-product of wine making. Kashrut Certification The task of keeping kosher is greatly simplified by widespread kashrut certification. Approximately 3/4 of all prepackaged foods have some kind of kosher certification, and most major brands have reliable Orthodox certification. The symbols at right are all widely-accepted kashrut certifications commonly found on products throughout the United States. Click the symbols to visit the websites of these organizations. With a little practice, it is very easy to spot these marks on food labels, usually near the product name, occasionally near the list of ingredients. There are many other certifications available, of varying degrees of strictness. The most controversial certification is the K, a plain letter K found on products asserted to be kosher. All other kosher certification marks are trademarked and cannot be used without the permission of the certifying organization. The certifying organization stands behind the kashrut of the product. But you cannot trademark a letter of the alphabet, so any manufacturer can put a K on a product. For example, Jell-O brand gelatin puts a K on its product, even though every reliable Orthodox authority agrees that Jell-O is not kosher. It is becoming increasingly common for kosher certifying organizations to indicate whether the product is fleishig, milchig or pareve. If the product is dairy, it will frequently have a D or the word Dairy next to the kashrut symbol. If it is meat, the word Meat or an M may appear near the symbol. If it is pareve, the word Pareve (or Parev) may appear near the symbol (Not a P! That means kosher for Passover!). If no such clarification appears, you should read the ingredient list carefully to determine whether the product is meat, dairy or pareve. Kosher Links You can find more information about kashrut at the websites of major kosher certification organizations. The Orthodox Union, which is responsible for " OU " certification, has some excellent information on its website, including a kosher primer, an explanation of their kosher policy, a philosophical discussion about " thinking kosher " and a questions and answers section. (Please note: the " Judaism 101 " listed on some of their pages is not this website and has no connection with this website). The Star-K Kosher Certification organization also has an excellent website. The wonderful thing about Star-K is, they give you an incredible amount of detail about the research that they put into determining whether a product is kosher. They tell you what products may be used without kosher certification, and they explain why such products can or cannot be used without kosher certification, giving complete detail about the research that went into making their determination. It also has articles about kashering appliances, and other useful information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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