Re: , and other outdoor sleepers

[Guest guest]

" <barb1283@...> wrote:

My question to you who are experienced.

I don't want to loose fingers or nose to frost bite. What

temperature should I come inside? If overnight temperatures are

going to be above freezing, is that good enough, or can wind chill

affect temperature enough to freeze flesh above freezing?

Any advice on sleeping bags or where you got yours? One I have is

from KMart. I got it long ago just in case my heat ever went out in

house or area.

> Thanks, Barb b in Cinci

OUTDOOR SLEEPERS???

Not me. It's too damned cold out there.

I only went to the desert to get a baseline for exposure and " get

clear " so that I could perceive mold better.

When I returned to town, I could then locate an area between spore

plumes where I could live safely - as long as I decontaminate after

passing through.

After I located the areas of spore plumage in Incline Village, I

didn't even have to leave town. Just not sleep in those areas and

avoid them when they are acting up.

The really funny part is, when I found a " safe house " to live, it was

directly across the street from Dr s office.

Heres the most famous CFS doctor looking for something to help CFSers,

and here's a CFS survivor of the epidemic that started it all who is

practicing something that helps - right across the street - and it

took Dr Shoemaker all the way across the country to zero in on this

and listen to me.

How strange! But no, I don't sleep outside.

Snowed last night. About twenty degrees outside, Brrrr,

but I've got a roaring fire in my fireplace.

It takes a lot of work to locate places that are tolerable and not

being plumed - but infinitely preferable to the alternative.

-

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 17:18:36 +0000, you wrote:

> " <barb1283@...> wrote:

> My question to you who are experienced.

> I don't want to loose fingers or nose to frost bite. What

>temperature should I come inside? If overnight temperatures are

>going to be above freezing, is that good enough, or can wind chill

>affect temperature enough to freeze flesh above freezing?

> Any advice on sleeping bags or where you got yours? One I have is

>from KMart. I got it long ago just in case my heat ever went out in

>house or area.

>> Thanks, Barb b in Cinci

>

Well I have some experience here!

Slept two years underneath a carport next to my mold pit!

I live just above the freezing line in clearwater fl. It still feels

cold here though becuase of the high humidity. It's funny how the

fist day of a cold front always feels a lot colder becuase the air is

still humid. The second and third days are generally not as bad

becuase the front pushes in dryer air.

I have been though quite a few fronts that were just below 32 degrees

for a few hours and many that were in the 50's for days on end.

Wear a lot of thermal underware, and sweaters, the last sweater

shoud have a hood and be a little thicker than the others.

Go to costco buy a sleeping bag and a heated blanket (you will have

to decide which is worse the electromagnitic field or freezing to

death) Put the heated blanket inside the bag and even a couple of

regular blankets if you can fit them. Keep the thermostate close so

you can turn it off when you get to hot. It's a very pleasent feeling

breathing in the cold clean air and being warm and toasty at the same

time.

I never close the windows in my trailer or turn off the ventalation

fan so in a sense It's still like if I am sleeping outside. The one

drawback is the beding material can make you sick (dust mites mold

spores and the like) . Not as sick as a moldy house is the way I look

at it.

[Guest guest]

Rhonda. I do the same with weather fronts with my sinuses and lungs. My mom

says I am better than the weatherman.

Janet

[Guest guest]

I don't know where I got the idea you guys were sleeping outside???

I wondered how that was working, so I misread something. If anyone is

sleeping outside or know what temperature is safe, let me know. I

don't want to get pneumonia but I thought I would try it. I get freq

migraines which is a sign of lack of enough oxygen to tissues.

Perhaps I will just try to get out more during the daytime. My

daytime hours just fly though, so thought I could get the extra oxygen

at night. If it's too cold, I will stick with my windows open

technique.

>

> OUTDOOR SLEEPERS???

> Not me. It's too damned cold out there.

>

[Guest guest]

Fequent migraines were one of my worst symptoms, have not had one in

a year since living clean. I slept outside a bit when I was first

recovering- till I got blown off a friends porch- A long heavy duty

extention cord and an electric blanket inside that sleeping bag and

you should be fine- and enjoy 8 hrs of clean air- the best for

recovery. My grandfather went to a TB clinic in the mountains in the

40's, before antibiotics- they all slept outside-with piles of

blankets on them- my grandfather recovered- one of very few- and PS-

athen did sleep outside for over a year in very cold conditions

> >

> > OUTDOOR SLEEPERS???

> > Not me. It's too damned cold out there.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I also got frequent migraines with barometer changes. I wonder if

that is linked to the mycotoxins. All those hurricanes went right

thru my head. Of course my nasty heat was on also. Seems

storms/fronts would trigger my migraines. I did have some axert my

neuro gave me that would work pretty good but sometimes come back

when it wore off. I wonder about migraine drugs tho.

Rhonda

> > >

> > > OUTDOOR SLEEPERS???

> > > Not me. It's too damned cold out there.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Oh wow, a heated blanket. I never thought of that. If it gets too

bad, I can always just 'go inside', so it isn't as if I will be really

roughing it. I used to love to sleep outdoors but I haven't since I

was a girl and of course it was summer!

> >

> Well I have some experience here!

> Slept two years underneath a carport next to my mold pit!

> I live just above the freezing line in clearwater fl. It still feels

[Guest guest]

,

I have discovered that I can nip a migraine in the bud if I have

alot of chlorophyll. It boosts the oxygen content of your blood. I

posted article here awhile back. It works well if headache hasn't

gotten full blown yet. I've read on migraines and the most likely

theory behind their cause is high carbon dioxide and low oxygen in

brain tissue. It makes sense since caffeine is said to be helpful

and it does it by increasing your circulation. That would mean more

blood going through your body, and hense more oxygen. If anyone

suffers from them, they might try juicing green leafies to get rid

of them. Second choice is small cup of coffee. Not enough to make

you nervous or can make it worse, but enough to stimulate your

circulation. Off the topic, but noteworthy. barb b

--- In , " carondeen " <kdeanstudios@...>

wrote:

>

> Fequent migraines were one of my worst symptoms, have not had one

in

> a year since living clean. I slept outside a bit when I was first

> recovering- till I got blown off a friends porch- A long heavy

[Guest guest]

This could be oxygen connection also. I heard people with migraines

experence fewer at sea level. So, high altitude has less oxygen. I

don't know about storm fronts but it's dealing with the wind anyway.

I'm not a meteorologist but I imagine very humid air may not be able

to hold as much oxygen as dry air.

--- In , " Rhonda " <rhondaleokitty@...>

wrote:

>

> I also got frequent migraines with barometer changes. I wonder if

> that is linked to the mycotoxins. All those hurricanes went right

> thru my head. Of course my nasty heat was on also. Seems

> storms/fronts would trigger my migraines. I did have some axert my

> neuro gave me that would work pretty good but sometimes come back

> when it wore off. I wonder about migraine drugs tho.

> Rhonda

>

[Guest guest]

I slept outside for two months. I have a deck off of the bedroom of the new

-non mold- house we bought. I went and got one of those rectangular

canopies with the curtains that pull. I feel quite certain this helped me

tremendously to recover. Something about fresh air. I also went to the beach

whenever possible, to have the wind off the ocean blow in my lungs. I could

tell an

immediate difference, not so much in my breathing, but with the brain fog.

I had ceiling fans installed in just about every room of this house. I sleep

with one on most nights. - which presents a challenge as far as my husband.

He doesn't particularly like ceiling fans going in the middle of winter for

odd reason.

I got sick from more of a sudden blast situation and went on antifungals

almost immediately. I was very sick. But now, I am not severely sensitive to

things such as perfume, air fresheners, etc. I think Dr. Shoemaker is right on

with the " six month " rule. Which just proves the importance of early

detection and treatment for these illnesses.

Sharon

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 15:35:16 +0000, you wrote:

>My question to you who are experienced.

>I don't want to loose fingers or nose to frost bite. What temperature

>should I come inside? If overnight temperatures are going to be above

>freezing, is that good enough,

You have absolutly nothing to worry about. Even if it dipped below

freezing you would wake up before you got frost bite I would think

anyways. I have slept in 32 degree weather a few times as I said and

never even experienced any discomfort with the heated blanket. They

are great. My nose gets kind of cold sometimes every other part of my

body is under covers. Again a hoodded sweater is a great asset. I

actually just wrap one of my blankets around my head just keeping my

nose exposed if it gets to cold. Funny evern though I am asleep I

seem to keep it adjusted without even waking up. If you have a porch

you have it made!

[Guest guest]

Do you put sleeping bag on foam rubber mat or something to make

surface less hard outside? I haven't done real camping since I was in

Girl Scouts. I guess if you are on grass, not a problem. My porch

has concrete floor so I guess I will need something like foam rubber

sheet under sleeping bad.

--- In , Christ <antares41-41@...>

wrote:

>

> You have absolutly nothing to worry about. Even if it dipped below

> freezing you would wake up before you got frost bite I would think

> anyways. I have slept in 32 degree weather a few times as I said and

>

[Guest guest]

>>>On Behalf Of barb1283

Do you put sleeping bag on foam rubber mat or something to make

surface less hard outside? I haven't done real camping since I was in

Girl Scouts. I guess if you are on grass, not a problem. My porch

has concrete floor so I guess I will need something like foam rubber

sheet under sleeping bad. >>>>

Hi Barb:

How about an old cot and the sleeping bag could go on top? Or a very thick

foam pad such as a fabric store sells. You are right, concrete floor is

too hard for us. When you temperature goes close to freezing could you

borrow or buy a small tent and put a space heater inside the tent to keep

you warm. Remember to cover your head and feet at all times.

Rosie

[Guest guest]

buy an areo blow up bed- they even make them for camping with a

sleeping bag- the plastic blow up bed wont mold from being outside-

can be washed down as often as you like.

> >

> > You have absolutly nothing to worry about. Even if it dipped below

> > freezing you would wake up before you got frost bite I would think

> > anyways. I have slept in 32 degree weather a few times as I said

and

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I know some people don't really have other options than to sleep

outside but I wouldn't feel safe doing that being a female and it's

not a nice world out there either. I don't know how ya'll do it. I

wouldn't never get to sleep. Spooky.

Rhonda

>

>

> >>>On Behalf Of barb1283

>

> Do you put sleeping bag on foam rubber mat or something to make

> surface less hard outside? I haven't done real camping since I was

in

> Girl Scouts. I guess if you are on grass, not a problem. My porch

> has concrete floor so I guess I will need something like foam

rubber

> sheet under sleeping bad. >>>>

>

> Hi Barb:

>

> How about an old cot and the sleeping bag could go on top? Or a

very thick

> foam pad such as a fabric store sells. You are right, concrete

floor is

> too hard for us. When you temperature goes close to freezing could

you

> borrow or buy a small tent and put a space heater inside the tent

to keep

> you warm. Remember to cover your head and feet at all times.

>

> Rosie

>

[Guest guest]

> Christ wrote:

Well I have some experience here!

Slept two years underneath a carport next to my mold pit!

>

NOW, I remember you!

I saw your website that had the photos of your arrangement, and this

was before you identified mold as the primary toxin.

I was really lucky, for I had a camper to retreat to.

But I soon found that the camper was so cross contaminated and spore

plumed that it was barely even a decrease in exposure.

So I got a new camper and never took it near any known " bad zone " .

Based on the extreme difficulty in really controlling cross

contamination in such circumstances, most people that I've talked to

find this arrangement torturous in that it gives you a sense that

it's a move in the right direction, but not far enough to really get

out of this mess.

In '98 Barbara Spark of the EPA told me about hundreds of people

living in trailers right next to their moldy houses that they dare

not enter, and my thought was " That's too close! They'll NEVER get

out of this that way. "

(See? The government knows all about this. Their inaction isn't

really based on some " lack of knowledge " as is often proposed)

The inflatable air mattresses are horrible for sleeping in cold.

They have no insulation and the cirulatin aire just sucks the warmth

right out of you. I recommend the backpacking solid

foam " Thermarest " mattresses - since they can be easily washed and

quickly dried after cross contamination.

And setting up a tent with one of those safe electric oil-radient

heaters from Home Depot inside is fairly comfortable - plus you can

run a Hepa filtration system inside the tent and reduce overall

spore exposure slightly.

-

[Guest guest]

I couldn't do it either Rhonda, but I'm proposing to sleep on my back

screened in porch. It has further jeolosy windows in aluminum frames

so couldn't even cut through screen and get inside. It is very safe,

except for not protecting myself adequately from weather extremes.

--- In , " Rhonda " <rhondaleokitty@...>

wrote:

>

> I know some people don't really have other options than to sleep

> outside but I wouldn't feel safe doing that being a female and it's

> not a nice world out there either. I don't know how ya'll do it. I

> wouldn't never get to sleep. Spooky.

> Rhonda

[Guest guest]

Thanks . I'll check out the Thermarest Mattresses. I don't think

I would have much contamination on my porch since house is right on

hilltop in one of highest points around so breeze up here is pretty

fresh. Anyway, it may be an improvement over sleeping inside. So far

air tests in my home are good but I still feel 'punk', so I will try

the porch. I have an oil radiant heater and also a water filled

baseboard heater that are very safe to use next to fabrics. My pet

sleeps right up against it. I've had it for years. I'm not sure how

being out in very cold air would affect the heater though. I think I

can be warm enough with the heated blanket and sleeping bad on foam

mattress. If a night is too cold for that, I can move inside for the

night.

I recommend the backpacking solid

> foam " Thermarest " mattresses - since they can be easily washed and

> quickly dried after cross contamination.

> And setting up a tent with one of those safe electric oil-radient

> heaters from Home Depot inside is fairly comfortable - plus you can

> run a Hepa filtration system inside the tent and reduce overall

> spore exposure slightly.

> -

>

[Guest guest]

If you have an electrical outlet on that porch, go to Lowes and get the

radiator heater and think it's $39. My dad got me one when I stoped

using my toxic heat and it heats up a room good. Not sure exactly what

the name of it is. Seems Delonhi brand or something like that. Doesn't

look dangerous. Stands about 2 feet or so. Has casters on it, I

think.

Rhonda

> >

> > I know some people don't really have other options than to sleep

> > outside but I wouldn't feel safe doing that being a female and it's

> > not a nice world out there either. I don't know how ya'll do it.

I

> > wouldn't never get to sleep. Spooky.

> > Rhonda

>

[Guest guest]

One needs to keep in mind, if they have chemical sensitivities there

ofrgassing of the plastic will knock them for a major loop. I bought one

of those with a air prump etc., to use when I had too many people staying

over.

It took 2 months in the Vegas sun in the dead of summer to offgass it

enough to be in my place. Sleeping and inhaling the plastic is going to

create its own unique set of problems.

Caveat Emptor!

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, carondeen wrote:

> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:59:18 -0000

> From: carondeen <kdeanstudios@...>

> Reply-

>

> Subject: [] Re: , and other outdoor sleepers

>

> buy an areo blow up bed- they even make them for camping with a

> sleeping bag- the plastic blow up bed wont mold from being outside-

> can be washed down as often as you like.

>

>

>>>

>>> You have absolutly nothing to worry about. Even if it dipped below

>>> freezing you would wake up before you got frost bite I would think

>>> anyways. I have slept in 32 degree weather a few times as I said

> and

>>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> One needs to keep in mind, if they have chemical sensitivities there

ofrgassing of the plastic will knock them for a major loop. I bought

one of those with a air prump etc., to use when I had too many people

staying over.

>

> It took 2 months in the Vegas sun in the dead of summer to offgass

it enough to be in my place. Sleeping and inhaling the plastic is

going to create its own unique set of problems.

>

Total agreement.

While my chemical intolerances have abated to the point that I could

use a vinyl inflatable, I see absolutely no value in trying to

achieve restorative sleep on such a highly questionable surface when

better alternatives can make such a difference.

Plus the dang things are FREEZING cold and required so

much " insulation " on top that I could pretty much sleep on just

whatever material I used for insulation - so that's what I did.

I washed five or six sleeping bags in a 'good laundromat', kept them

in plastic bags until use - and piled them up to make a mattress.

When the top one became contaminated - I'd just put it to one side

and move to a fresh surface.

By keeping " rotation " going of a pristine sleeping surface, I could

make my nights much more comfortable.

-

[Guest guest]

Yes, that is the trouble with vinyl covers I got for my mattresses and

box spring. I put them right on and they had very strong awful

smell. I should have aired them out. I'm not sensitive to plastic

but the smell told me I should not be breathing it in, or sleeping on

it, at least until smell was disappated.

>

>

> > One needs to keep in mind, if they have chemical sensitivities

there

> ofrgassing of the plastic will knock them for a major loop.

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:19:56 +0000, you wrote:

>

>Do you put sleeping bag on foam rubber mat or something to make

>surface less hard outside? I haven't done real camping since I was in

>Girl Scouts. I guess if you are on grass, not a problem. My porch

>has concrete floor so I guess I will need something like foam rubber

>sheet under sleeping bad.

Actually when I slept on my porch in my rental I used an old couch,

not the greatest idea though especially if you cant find one without

contamination.

When I slept on the carport I welded together a frame out of angle

iron and put a sheet of plywood in the frame and used a thin camping

type of foam mattress with a vinyl cover. I got from sam's club.

Never really liked the idea of sleeping on the ground.

You might be able to do something similar on your porch using cinder

blocks and a sheet of plywood. Maybe a couple of strong 2x6's (non

pressure treated white pine) You could paint the plywood with a non

toxic latex paint to reduce emissions. I will warn you right now it's

not going to be as comfortable as a Tempur-pedic mattress. But it's

worth roughing it to get an idea of the effects your house is having

on you. Of course if you are coming and going inside during the day

it will be hard to gauge. The best and most unrealistic way is to not

go in your house for anything. Or maybe to think of a hotel for a week

just to give you an idea. That is when it really resonated for me is

when I went to arizona to see dr gray. When I came back it was

undeniable that my house was making me sick.

[Guest guest]

I kept a gun under my pillow, and used those little battery operated

radio shack motion detectors. Still felt very vunerable. Had no

choice though.

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 16:35:41 +0000, you wrote:

>I know some people don't really have other options than to sleep

>outside but I wouldn't feel safe doing that being a female and it's

>not a nice world out there either. I don't know how ya'll do it. I

>wouldn't never get to sleep. Spooky.

[Guest guest]

>NOW, I remember you!

>I saw your website that had the photos of your arrangement, and this

>was before you identified mold as the primary toxin.

>I was really lucky, for I had a camper to retreat to.

That was my web site! Looking back their are so many things I could

have done differently I feel stupid now in hindsight.

> So I got a new camper and never took it near any known " bad zone " .

That's what I'm doing now also. I bought a 28' Kodiak brand new for

17k. bought last march an o5 model with a slide. I regret the slid in

hindsight because they are inviting trouble with moisture. I took it

back once already to get the leak fixed. The seals don't seal well I

was worried about that but the salesman told me I needant be. I need

to get one of those canopies that roll out with the slide. I don't

like the holding tanks either, you have a choice of them stinking to

high heaven or putting in those blue things that are loaded with

fragrances. These units are built really cheap too, I can't complain.

You get what you pay for after all. I have been eying the airstreams,

That was until they told me it listed for 64k anyways. The

international has linoleum floors and all aluminum walls and ceiling.

Can't believe a 28' trailer could actually be that expensive. But

they don't leak and use way less wood in the construction.

http://www.airstream.com/product_line/travel_trailers/intccd_home.html

>Based on the extreme difficulty in really controlling cross

>contamination in such circumstances, most people that I've talked to

>find this arrangement torturous in that it gives you a sense that

>it's a move in the right direction, but not far enough to really get

>out of this mess.

>In '98 Barbara Spark of the EPA told me about hundreds of people

>living in trailers right next to their moldy houses that they dare

>not enter, and my thought was " That's too close! They'll NEVER get

>out of this that way. "

I found this out the hard way, between the rental house I had next

door and the carport in the back yard I was still always sick but

there was no doubt in my mind at this point that my house was making

my sick, NO DOUBT.

Finally sold my house and bought a sailboat because as you say I was

" to close " . I needed to get away. Sold all the houses and got rid of

all my belongings. I thought that would do me good being on the water.

Pissed away a fortune and wasted two more years of my life on that

one.

The boat had pre-existing mold not that It needed any I brought plenty

with me from my house including that monitor on my web site.

)

>The inflatable air mattresses are horrible for sleeping in cold.

>They have no insulation and the cirulatin aire just sucks the warmth

>right out of you. I recommend the backpacking solid

>foam " Thermarest " mattresses - since they can be easily washed and

>quickly dried after cross contamination.

I am planning on throwing out this mattress that came in my trailer.

I was eying those inflatable's at walmart. I was thinking they would

be great because they are plastic and can be washed.

Who is the manufacture of that backpacking solid

foam " Thermarest " mattresses , can I google it? Sounds like a good

solution for me if it can be washed.

I know sam's club sells vinyl covered 2 " thick mattress. I have used

them in the past. They can be wiped down. Funny thing though one of

those things started growing mold on it when I left it sitting unused

for a month or two.

I don't know what it is about plastic products but mold sure does love

them. I think again it's the static electricity attracts dust and the

mold are attracted to the dust. Clearly it's not eating the plastic

alone but it appears that way.