Re: Those hard obsessions

[Guest guest]

Hi Joy:

How is Ian doing now with his croup? I hope he has a speedy recovery.

That embarrassment about OCD seems almost universal unless they have the

flavor of OCD that includes the need to confess. It is such a barrier to

learning how to help them to cope. It sounds like Ian is doing a good job

of telling you and Dr. Hat about his feelings though and this is an

excellent start. Just complimenting him for doing such a good job

explaining about the embarrassment might help him open up a bit more.

One thing I have learned from Steve's CBT therapist is that boys open up

when they are actively doing something. Steve has some fine motor deficits

so we encourage him in model building and craft making as much as possible.

Doing these activities together presents good opportunities for him to

open up rather than confronting him head on about what his OCD is getting

him to do.

Have you started Ian on developing his OCD hierarchy yet? It took me 6

months to get this out of Steve. It only happened because we went for

family therapy and I raised it as an issue and he was put on the spot and

had to confront it. At first he wrote like mad on a piece of paper, passed

it to the psychiatrist and it was just chicken scratch. I was close to

furious and tried to keep my cool and told him to try harder. So he

started to write some items, actually it was very much like what I thought

it would be, but confirming it was very helpful. You might want to try a

system of rewards for Ian when he does share info about his OCD symptoms.

Wishing your family good health, take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 12:19 AM 09/24/1999 EDT, you wrote:

>From: Ianmom@...

>

>Hi Kathy,

>

>The way you said we only see the tip of the iceberg is exactly how I feel

>about Ian and his OCD. We sometimes wonder if he truly has it because he

>doesn't demonstrate the ritualizing very often and it is rarely the ones

>talked about in the books - contamination, counting, checking - although he

>is definitely a hoarder. Just yesterday when (his brother) was making

>part of an Indian village diorama he was using half of a sandwich pick (sort

>of a large flat tooth pick) and Ian had to 'collect' the left over pieces

and

>put them in a special box.

>

>Ian has told me and also Dr. Hatton that his OCD things are his secrets.

Most

>of what he is afraid of or worried about is too difficult to talk about.

>Earlier this summer he could not stand to see any matches and made me put

>them all out of reach. He finally was able to tell me he is sure he will

burn

>something if he goes near matches. That one is too high on his list right

now

>(we can't mention it to the Dr. yet). I get a sense that he is very

>embarrassed about his obsessions.

>

>Some days I feel like most of my energy is directed toward this vast unknown

>territory and I usually pick the action that goes along with the OCD rather

>than the right way to fight it back. I am trying to get a handle on it but

>Ian has so much trouble expressing his fears and concerns.

>

>I think the similarities among the kids are interesting. Ian has a passion

>for small hidey holes and places to escape to. He also went through a period

>when he took a lot of risks that involved high places and precarious

perches.

>His strangest habit was sitting in the corner of the couch upside-down. That

>behavior disappeared during August when we had about four weeks of really

>normal non-OCD time and then the behavior returned about a week before

school

>started.

>

>Ian will sometimes hurt himself in minor ways. He often pokes himself with

>sharp objects (push pins, pencils, nails, we can't leave anything lying

>around). He didn't seem to want to do himself real harm until he had the

>mania and depression. I think those pushed him closer to the edge because

>they can cause such torment.

>

>We've been weathering a storm this week because Ian has croup and seems to

do

>worse when he is sick. He came home from school early on Monday and stayed

>home Tuesday and Wednesday with a terrible cough. He was not sure he could

go

>back to school today (or ever) but he did. I was really proud of him. He

>didn't want to go but he went and he stayed the whole day.

>

>Joy in SD

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Joy, in S.D.

You also describe two of my kids. Like Steve, and Ian, Adi was always

hiding in small spaces. She also liked to hang upside down from furniture,

closet shelves, trees, whatever. She used to wrap things around her neck all

the time so we took away everything that allowed her to do this. She hasnt

done this in 2 years, btw.

Tom is also like Ian. He collects insignificant things like flyers, scrap

paper, bottles, cans, ... He plays with fire, but can resist burning

anything. He is very clever about manipulating this one... at one point he

had a collection of lighters - but for their hockey teams not the fire. \

We took them away. He also had a knife collection - now gone. Tom hurts

himself with pins, sticks, pens,..., nothing to cut the skin, but enough to

leave a red welt. He is chronically suicidal so anti-depressants are a must.

Tom also has thoughts that something will happen to someone. He doesnt

admit it to me, but I have a sense from reading his body language that he is

nervous about me not sleeping enough and being on the road. I work

afternoons and evenings 4 days a week. He worries about everyones personal

safety and is very judgemental of his sisters clothing (adi's skirts are too

short, ziv's clothes are too tight)... anyway, you get my point.

I allow him, and the girls, their secrets. I make myself available to

them to talk when they need it - but within parameters of time. I wont begin

a discussion that will go on for hours at 10:00pm which was tom's favourite

way of avoiding his bedtime rituals! tom writes songs, or poems, and that is

an outlet for him. He is also a fine artist, but will not draw for some

reason.... Perhaps Ian could express himself artistically? Tom also has a

wonderful sense of humour and can tell jokes for any occasion!

My point after such a long explanation is: Kathy and I understand. My

kids are like Ian. there are certain ocd traits in many of our kids that

cross over and are common among many. Sometimes we need to see it in someone

elses child to recognize that its ocd.... The day I met Kathy in California

last May was like a coming home - finally someone who understood me!!!

take care, joy,..... wendy in canada

[Guest guest]

Thank you Kathy and for your encouragement and support. I do think this

list is wonderful. It really is isolating trying to figure out the best way

to fight this monster. Sometimes I think it's all we focus on and I know that

is building up a lot of hostility because of all the attention Ian is

getting.

>>She used to wrap things around her neck all

the time so we took away everything that allowed her to do this. She hasn't

done this in 2 years, btw.>> Ian has done this for the past three years. I

attributed it to my sister's suicide (she hung herself, but we ended up

telling the kids that she stopped breathing by putting something around her

neck. Ian just had to know what happened). I think so many behaviors get

wrapped up in OCD that don't necessarily start out that way.

Well, here's to a new day. Ian went off the school without much of a fuss.

I'm bringing popsicle for the end of the day so he has something to look

forward to.

Take care all

Joy - in SD

[Guest guest]

HI Joy:

You bring up an important issue, the effect of OCD on siblings. I know I

have snapped at Mark that I was just too busy dealing with Steve to help him

with problems and that he must just solve them on his own. It made me feel

really bad and the end result is that they get into their own problems big

time just to get your attention.

Another problem we had was that Mark became almost another parent in helping

us to deal with Steve and his OCD and depression. Finally I had to just

tell him that one day he will be a parent and make all these decisions but

for now he is still a kid and I appreciate his concern and support. We have

taken him for supportive therapy and he seems to be handling ok but

sometimes I don't know.

Good luck to you all, take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 11:47 AM 09/24/1999 EDT, you wrote:

>From: Ianmom@...

>

>Thank you Kathy and for your encouragement and support. I do think this

>list is wonderful. It really is isolating trying to figure out the best way

>to fight this monster. Sometimes I think it's all we focus on and I know that

> is building up a lot of hostility because of all the attention Ian is

>getting.

>

>>>She used to wrap things around her neck all

>the time so we took away everything that allowed her to do this. She hasn't

>done this in 2 years, btw.>> Ian has done this for the past three years. I

>attributed it to my sister's suicide (she hung herself, but we ended up

>telling the kids that she stopped breathing by putting something around her

>neck. Ian just had to know what happened). I think so many behaviors get

>wrapped up in OCD that don't necessarily start out that way.

>

>Well, here's to a new day. Ian went off the school without much of a fuss.

>I'm bringing popsicle for the end of the day so he has something to look

>forward to.

>

>Take care all

>

>Joy - in SD

[Guest guest]

> From: Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...>

> One thing I have learned from Steve's CBT therapist is that boys open up

> when they are actively doing something. Steve has some fine motor

deficits

> so we encourage him in model building and craft making as much as

possible.

> Doing these activities together presents good opportunities for him to

> open up rather than confronting him head on about what his OCD is getting

> him to do.

This is a good approach for small children too, I've found that playing

side-by-side with Kel is when she is most likely to bring up some ocd thing

that's bothering her, usually something I've been clueless about. Asking

her directly about what ocd is bugging her to do is much less fruitful

usually, unless she is extrememly distressed, then she'll sometimes blurt

out the trouble. She also sometimes uses toys to act out her ocd troubles,

not to communicate with me but if I pay attention I might pick up on

something.

Kathy R. in Indiana

[Guest guest]

> From: Ianmom@...

> Some days I feel like most of my energy is directed toward this vast

unknown

> territory and I usually pick the action that goes along with the OCD

rather

> than the right way to fight it back. I am trying to get a handle on it but

> Ian has so much trouble expressing his fears and concerns.

Hi Joy, me too, in quieter moments and in hindsight I can often see how I

should have responded, but my knee-jerk Mommy instincts too often have me

playing right into the ocd, reinforcing it. I'm better than I used to be,

but still often feel overwhelmed by the complexity of this disorder.

About Ian's expressing his fears and concerns: early on in my reading about

ocd I read that we all have weird thoughts, scary thoughts, embarassing

thoughts but without ocd we just let them go, where those with ocd attach

significance to these types of thoughts. I've made a point of telling my

daughter when some strange thought or worry pops in my mind. My hope is to

encourage her to believe that brains just sometimes do that, and that she's

not the only one who experiences this. One of the most helpful things was

when the local parents support group I attend had a family night, and

everyone brought their children. There were several kids of all ages, even

a couple near Kel's age, and she ran around asking them " do you have it?

What are your yucky thoughts? " She had been feeling so alone with ocd I

think, but I noticed a lot of even the older kids talked about their worries

in that setting.

Just some thoughts,

Kathy R. in Indiana

[Guest guest]

HI Kathy:

At 03:50 PM 09/24/1999 -0500, you wrote:

>This is a good approach for small children too, I've found that playing

>side-by-side with Kel is when she is most likely to bring up some ocd thing

>that's bothering her, usually something I've been clueless about. Asking

>her directly about what ocd is bugging her to do is much less fruitful

>usually, unless she is extrememly distressed, then she'll sometimes blurt

>out the trouble. She also sometimes uses toys to act out her ocd troubles,

>not to communicate with me but if I pay attention I might pick up on

>something.

>

>Kathy R. in Indiana

It sounds to me that you are paying very close and careful attention and

have picked up a great deal. Kel is a very lucky girl. Take care, aloha,

Kathy (H)

kathyh@...