Re: STACHY - from what I hear

[Guest guest]

I would never slam anyone that brings valid information to the table.

Try to tell me it's all in my head and I might get a little pissed.

I find that interesting. Of course you don't have to have something

growing in your body to cause a reaction. People react to a wide

range of substances none of which have to grow in our body to make us

react to it. There is lots of talk about mycotoxin. Their not alive,

or at least their not " growing inside of us " . Pollen, certain insect

venoms, latex gloves, peanut butter etc. None of those grow inside of

us but it's fact that certain people are highly allergic to them.

I am assuming his take is that if black mold doesn't infect us it

can't hurt us.

I am surprised that someone with his credentials would give that a

whole lot of credence. Interesting if true yes but hardly a reason to

think that black mold is not extreemly dangerous.

>Don't all slam me at once for saying something unpopular, but I wanted to add

this to the Stachy discussion

>The pathologist who is working with us on my neighbor's case

>(he died from Trichothecene issues) says he has ALMOST NEVER finds Stachy in

his patients live or dead

[Guest guest]

Thanks, . ;-)

No one is contesting the danger of Stachy by any means...it's just that as far

as mycotoxins go, when he's found them in people's tissues, they haven't been

from Stachy - that's all. It was not a position on Stachy's treachery or

potential at all. It's just that Stachy gets a lot of press and it's been other

stuff that has really been the source of mycotoxin contamination that has made

folks ill at least in his experience. It was a 'fun mycotoxin fact,' if there

is such a thing.

Stachy bad - Danger, stay away! Beware. Keep Out. Turn back.

-Haley

Christ <antares41-41@...> wrote:

I would never slam anyone that brings valid information to the table.

Try to tell me it's all in my head and I might get a little pissed.

I find that interesting. Of course you don't have to have something

growing in your body to cause a reaction. People react to a wide

range of substances none of which have to grow in our body to make us

react to it. There is lots of talk about mycotoxin. Their not alive,

or at least their not " growing inside of us " . Pollen, certain insect

venoms, latex gloves, peanut butter etc. None of those grow inside of

us but it's fact that certain people are highly allergic to them.

I am assuming his take is that if black mold doesn't infect us it

can't hurt us.

I am surprised that someone with his credentials would give that a

whole lot of credence. Interesting if true yes but hardly a reason to

think that black mold is not extreemly dangerous.

>Don't all slam me at once for saying something unpopular, but I wanted to add

this to the Stachy discussion

>The pathologist who is working with us on my neighbor's case

>(he died from Trichothecene issues) says he has ALMOST NEVER finds Stachy in

his patients live or dead

FAIR USE NOTICE:

[Guest guest]

Haley,

I was exposed to Stachybotrys Mold and am very ill. I have Granuloma lesions

growing all in my body from the exposure to Stachybotrys. If you hear me talk,

you will also notice that my voice is very raspy from the same lesions from

Stachybotrys growing on my vocal cords. Maybe your Pathologist guy needs to

look at me then maybe, just MAYBE your idea would change.( and his!)

Marcie

Haley <myhaze@...> wrote:

Thanks, . ;-)

No one is contesting the danger of Stachy by any means...it's just that as far

as mycotoxins go, when he's found them in people's tissues, they haven't been

from Stachy - that's all. It was not a position on Stachy's treachery or

potential at all. It's just that Stachy gets a lot of press and it's been other

stuff that has really been the source of mycotoxin contamination that has made

folks ill at least in his experience. It was a 'fun mycotoxin fact,' if there

is such a thing.

Stachy bad - Danger, stay away! Beware. Keep Out. Turn back.

-Haley

Christ <antares41-41@...> wrote:

I would never slam anyone that brings valid information to the table.

Try to tell me it's all in my head and I might get a little pissed.

I find that interesting. Of course you don't have to have something

growing in your body to cause a reaction. People react to a wide

range of substances none of which have to grow in our body to make us

react to it. There is lots of talk about mycotoxin. Their not alive,

or at least their not " growing inside of us " . Pollen, certain insect

venoms, latex gloves, peanut butter etc. None of those grow inside of

us but it's fact that certain people are highly allergic to them.

I am assuming his take is that if black mold doesn't infect us it

can't hurt us.

I am surprised that someone with his credentials would give that a

whole lot of credence. Interesting if true yes but hardly a reason to

think that black mold is not extreemly dangerous.

>Don't all slam me at once for saying something unpopular, but I wanted to add

this to the Stachy discussion

>The pathologist who is working with us on my neighbor's case

>(he died from Trichothecene issues) says he has ALMOST NEVER finds Stachy in

his patients live or dead

FAIR USE NOTICE:

[Guest guest]

Point taken, If I sounded hostile I did not mean to. I am one whom

tries to adhere to scientific methods so I don't sound like a

hypocrite when I rip on the medical community for not doing the same.

Good scientific methodology always takes in the facts and is willing

to rethink their views based on any new information, and at the same

time avoid basing theories on unsubstantiated views or hunches. Like

the psychosomatic one for instance which is never substantiated just

assumed.

It would be stupid of me to ignore this information especially if it

can be verified by other sources. My main goal here is the truth if it

leads me somewhere other than where I think it should I have to be

willing to accept this.

[Guest guest]

When you have stachybotrys, you always have had/have lots of other mold

species in the environment as well.

I think that the illnesses caused by mold exposure are extremely cumulative

and also they seem to be additive.

We need to take that into account, but it seems the 'honor system' we are

using to deal with it doesn't.

We trust landlords and builders to do the right thing, but then we make it

so difficult to punish those who don't they ignore health needs with

impunity.

This system is terrible in SO many ways, with ragard to mold issues. In

order for the 'honor system' to work, a significant percentage of the people

who are injured NEED to sue and win. To make up for those who don't. Right

now, probably less than 1/10 of 1 percent can.

That is so so wrong. We are probably looking at millions of people walking

around with permanent issues, with tens or even hundreds of thousands of

serious ones nationally.. How many actually get a lawyer and go to court..

Very few..

Whatever it takes to fix the system, so that landlords and builders stop

ruining lives, we need to do it. The only way we can within our system is to

dramatically increase penalties when they are caught red handed..

If anyone has any better suggestion, lets hear it. But as far as I can see,

that is the only way..

Why is the government fighting us when we are just trying to ensure that all

Americans get to have secure lives without being poisoned? Something is

wrong in Washington.

[Guest guest]

Marcie,

I'm curious and I mean no disrespect. I also understand the

seriousness of mold exposure. However, Stachybotrys is a very finicky

eater, limited to cellulose. It also has a defined temperature and

moisture range. Did your doctor explain how Stachybotrys can grow on

human tissue at 98 degrees? We need to know this.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Haley,

> I was exposed to Stachybotrys Mold and am very ill. I have Granuloma

> lesions growing all in my body from the exposure to Stachybotrys. If

> you hear me talk, you will also notice that my voice is very raspy

> from the same lesions from Stachybotrys growing on my vocal cords.

> Maybe your Pathologist guy needs to look at me then maybe, just

> MAYBE your idea would change.( and his!) Marcie

>

> Haley <myhaze@...> wrote:

> Thanks, . ;-)

>

> No one is contesting the danger of Stachy by any means...it's just

> that as far as mycotoxins go, when he's found them in people's

> tissues, they haven't been from Stachy - that's all. It was not a

> position on Stachy's treachery or potential at all. It's just that

> Stachy gets a lot of press and it's been other stuff that has really

> been the source of mycotoxin contamination that has made folks ill

> at least in his experience. It was a 'fun mycotoxin fact,' if there

> is such a thing.

>

> Stachy bad - Danger, stay away! Beware. Keep Out. Turn back.

>

> -Haley

>

>

>

> Christ <antares41-41@...> wrote:

> I would never slam anyone that brings valid information to the

> table.

> Try to tell me it's all in my head and I might get a little pissed.

>

> I find that interesting. Of course you don't have to have something

> growing in your body to cause a reaction. People react to a wide

> range of substances none of which have to grow in our body to make us

> react to it. There is lots of talk about mycotoxin. Their not alive,

> or at least their not " growing inside of us " . Pollen, certain insect

> venoms, latex gloves, peanut butter etc. None of those grow inside of

> us but it's fact that certain people are highly allergic to them. I am

> assuming his take is that if black mold doesn't infect us it can't

> hurt us. I am surprised that someone with his credentials would give

> that a whole lot of credence. Interesting if true yes but hardly a

> reason to think that black mold is not extreemly dangerous.

>

>

>

> >Don't all slam me at once for saying something unpopular, but I

> >wanted to add this to the Stachy discussion The pathologist who is

> >working with us on my neighbor's case (he died from Trichothecene

> >issues) says he has ALMOST NEVER finds Stachy in his patients live or

> >dead

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

" This system is terrible in SO many ways, with ragard

to mold issues. In

order for the 'honor system' to work, a significant

percentage of the people

who are injured NEED to sue and win "

What you said is SO TRUE. Also teachers like myself

who have been affected in the classroom and parents

whose kids are getting sick in the school buildings

need to start lining up the right lawyers who have the

courage to stand against school districts who are

continuing the cover up of their sick buildings across

America.

> When you have stachybotrys, you always have had/have

> lots of other mold

> species in the environment as well.

>

> I think that the illnesses caused by mold exposure

> are extremely cumulative

> and also they seem to be additive.

>

> We need to take that into account, but it seems the

> 'honor system' we are

> using to deal with it doesn't.

>

> We trust landlords and builders to do the right

> thing, but then we make it

> so difficult to punish those who don't they ignore

> health needs with

> impunity.

>

> This system is terrible in SO many ways, with ragard

> to mold issues. In

> order for the 'honor system' to work, a significant

> percentage of the people

> who are injured NEED to sue and win. To make up for

> those who don't. Right

> now, probably less than 1/10 of 1 percent can.

>

> That is so so wrong. We are probably looking at

> millions of people walking

> around with permanent issues, with tens or even

> hundreds of thousands of

> serious ones nationally.. How many actually get a

> lawyer and go to court..

> Very few..

>

> Whatever it takes to fix the system, so that

> landlords and builders stop

> ruining lives, we need to do it. The only way we can

> within our system is to

> dramatically increase penalties when they are caught

> red handed..

>

> If anyone has any better suggestion, lets hear it.

> But as far as I can see,

> that is the only way..

>

> Why is the government fighting us when we are just

> trying to ensure that all

> Americans get to have secure lives without being

> poisoned? Something is

> wrong in Washington.

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I think we need to focus on who is the villain here. If it wasn't for

the institutionalized medical fraud being perpetuated by the medical

industrial complex so to speak we would have a proper diagnosis.

The public officials would have to heed our advice. They would

want to because they would recognize the hazard. They would want to

do the right thing for us and themselves.

When they are getting mixed signals and in such a legal phobic

society they assume the worst that we are lying and the medical

community has no reason to lie. It is preposterous for someone that

has not been enlightened like ourselves to ever even consider such a

possibility. It would be like mother teresa heading up a child

prostitution ring, it's preposterous.

If every Medical Dr knew that when they or their peers resort to

pseudo science and they get a false prognosis on a wholesale level

they are liable. It's not only their patients asses on the line but

theirs too. It might force them to practice scientific method even

when theirs kick backs to be had and intense pressure not to.

I have suggested that their should be a class action suite or at the

very least a threat of it against all 600,000 physicians for their

participation. Ignorance is not ignorance when it's purposeful. I

didn't know is not an excuse. When their are wild claims like agent

orange causes a psychological problem, or depleted uranium, or breast

implants or mold, or organophosphate's. Their should be a review and

if physicians stand by the wild claim they should be held responsible

if they are wrong. All 600,000 of them.

On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 19:39:51 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>What you said is SO TRUE. Also teachers like myself

>who have been affected in the classroom and parents

>whose kids are getting sick in the school buildings

>need to start lining up the right lawyers who have the

>courage to stand against school districts who are

>continuing the cover up of their sick buildings across

>America.

[Guest guest]

--- Christ <antares41-41@...>

wrote:

> I think we need to focus on who is the villain here.

> If it wasn't for

> the institutionalized medical fraud being

> perpetuated by the medical

> industrial complex so to speak we would have a

> proper diagnosis.

> The public officials would have to heed our

> advice. They would

> want to because they would recognize the hazard.

> They would want to

> do the right thing for us and themselves.

> When they are getting mixed signals and in such a

> legal phobic

> society they assume the worst that we are lying and

> the medical

> community has no reason to lie. It is preposterous

> for someone that

> has not been enlightened like ourselves to ever

> even consider such a

> possibility. It would be like mother teresa heading

> up a child

> prostitution ring, it's preposterous.

> If every Medical Dr knew that when they or their

> peers resort to

> pseudo science and they get a false prognosis on a

> wholesale level

> they are liable. It's not only their patients asses

> on the line but

> theirs too. It might force them to practice

> scientific method even

> when theirs kick backs to be had and intense

> pressure not to.

> I have suggested that their should be a class

> action suite or at the

> very least a threat of it against all 600,000

> physicians for their

> participation. Ignorance is not ignorance when it's

> purposeful. I

> didn't know is not an excuse. When their are wild

> claims like agent

> orange causes a psychological problem, or depleted

> uranium, or breast

> implants or mold, or organophosphate's. Their should

> be a review and

> if physicians stand by the wild claim they should be

> held responsible

> if they are wrong. All 600,000 of them.

>

>

>

> On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 19:39:51 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>

> >What you said is SO TRUE. Also teachers like myself

> >who have been affected in the classroom and parents

> >whose kids are getting sick in the school buildings

> >need to start lining up the right lawyers who have

> the

> >courage to stand against school districts who are

> >continuing the cover up of their sick buildings

> across

> >America.

>

>

> Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!! How right you are!!!!!!!!!!

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> if physicians stand by the wild claim they should be held responsible

> if they are wrong. All 600,000 of them.

>

Insurance companies know, and can write exclusions based on mold.

Remediologists know, and can construct methods for addressing

specific cleanup of toxin contamination.

Alternative practitioners know.

Hepa filtration and vacuum purveyors know.

Real estate companies know.

The Construction industry knows.

Snake oil salesmen know.

How can it be that the first profession which should have recognized

the problem turned out to be the very last?

-

[Guest guest]

& ,

I agree.... I want to say follow the money, which you already know,

but maybe I should say follow the stupidity and the junk science

that goes with it.

KC

>

>

> > if physicians stand by the wild claim they should be held

responsible

> > if they are wrong. All 600,000 of them.

> >

>

> Insurance companies know, and can write exclusions based on mold.

> Remediologists know, and can construct methods for

addressing

> specific cleanup of toxin contamination.

> Alternative practitioners know.

> Hepa filtration and vacuum purveyors know.

> Real estate companies know.

> The Construction industry knows.

> Snake oil salesmen know.

>

> How can it be that the first profession which should have

recognized

> the problem turned out to be the very last?

> -

>

[Guest guest]

Donna,

It's call profit on all sides we can change that by sticking together I agree

with you.

Elvira

Re: [] STACHY - from what I hear

--- Christ <antares41-41@...>

wrote:

> I think we need to focus on who is the villain here.

> If it wasn't for

> the institutionalized medical fraud being

> perpetuated by the medical

> industrial complex so to speak we would have a

> proper diagnosis.

> The public officials would have to heed our

> advice. They would

> want to because they would recognize the hazard.

> They would want to

> do the right thing for us and themselves.

> When they are getting mixed signals and in such a

> legal phobic

> society they assume the worst that we are lying and

> the medical

> community has no reason to lie. It is preposterous

> for someone that

> has not been enlightened like ourselves to ever

> even consider such a

> possibility. It would be like mother teresa heading

> up a child

> prostitution ring, it's preposterous.

> If every Medical Dr knew that when they or their

> peers resort to

> pseudo science and they get a false prognosis on a

> wholesale level

> they are liable. It's not only their patients asses

> on the line but

> theirs too. It might force them to practice

> scientific method even

> when theirs kick backs to be had and intense

> pressure not to.

> I have suggested that their should be a class

> action suite or at the

> very least a threat of it against all 600,000

> physicians for their

> participation. Ignorance is not ignorance when it's

> purposeful. I

> didn't know is not an excuse. When their are wild

> claims like agent

> orange causes a psychological problem, or depleted

> uranium, or breast

> implants or mold, or organophosphate's. Their should

> be a review and

> if physicians stand by the wild claim they should be

> held responsible

> if they are wrong. All 600,000 of them.

>

>

>

> On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 19:39:51 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>

> >What you said is SO TRUE. Also teachers like myself

> >who have been affected in the classroom and parents

> >whose kids are getting sick in the school buildings

> >need to start lining up the right lawyers who have

> the

> >courage to stand against school districts who are

> >continuing the cover up of their sick buildings

> across

> >America.

>

>

> Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!! How right you are!!!!!!!!!!

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

NO SHIT.... you are rite on the money ..

erikmoldwarrior <erikmoldwarrior@...> wrote:

> if physicians stand by the wild claim they should be held responsible

> if they are wrong. All 600,000 of them.

>

Insurance companies know, and can write exclusions based on mold.

Remediologists know, and can construct methods for addressing

specific cleanup of toxin contamination.

Alternative practitioners know.

Hepa filtration and vacuum purveyors know.

Real estate companies know.

The Construction industry knows.

Snake oil salesmen know.

How can it be that the first profession which should have recognized

the problem turned out to be the very last?

-

FAIR USE NOTICE:

[Guest guest]

AMEN ... Imagine that.

elvira52 <Elvira52@...> wrote: Donna,

It's call profit on all sides we can change that by sticking together I agree

with you.

Elvira

Re: [] STACHY - from what I hear

--- Christ <antares41-41@...>

wrote:

> I think we need to focus on who is the villain here.

> If it wasn't for

> the institutionalized medical fraud being

> perpetuated by the medical

> industrial complex so to speak we would have a

> proper diagnosis.

> The public officials would have to heed our

> advice. They would

> want to because they would recognize the hazard.

> They would want to

> do the right thing for us and themselves.

> When they are getting mixed signals and in such a

> legal phobic

> society they assume the worst that we are lying and

> the medical

> community has no reason to lie. It is preposterous

> for someone that

> has not been enlightened like ourselves to ever

> even consider such a

> possibility. It would be like mother teresa heading

> up a child

> prostitution ring, it's preposterous.

> If every Medical Dr knew that when they or their

> peers resort to

> pseudo science and they get a false prognosis on a

> wholesale level

> they are liable. It's not only their patients asses

> on the line but

> theirs too. It might force them to practice

> scientific method even

> when theirs kick backs to be had and intense

> pressure not to.

> I have suggested that their should be a class

> action suite or at the

> very least a threat of it against all 600,000

> physicians for their

> participation. Ignorance is not ignorance when it's

> purposeful. I

> didn't know is not an excuse. When their are wild

> claims like agent

> orange causes a psychological problem, or depleted

> uranium, or breast

> implants or mold, or organophosphate's. Their should

> be a review and

> if physicians stand by the wild claim they should be

> held responsible

> if they are wrong. All 600,000 of them.

>

>

>

> On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 19:39:51 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>

> >What you said is SO TRUE. Also teachers like myself

> >who have been affected in the classroom and parents

> >whose kids are getting sick in the school buildings

> >need to start lining up the right lawyers who have

> the

> >courage to stand against school districts who are

> >continuing the cover up of their sick buildings

> across

> >America.

>

>

> Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!! How right you are!!!!!!!!!!

>

>

__________________________________________________