Re: Where are the experts? [was: Charlotte Teen with MCS]

[Guest guest]

I agree with answering the same questions OVER & OVER again....

The professionals I was referring to also have full schedules, but, are

making awareness a priority as you are with helping your clients.

It's true, it's a prioritizing agenda.

I have a firm and set policy when I field phone queries. Don't try to

tell me why the other people differ from my recommendations, if you value

their info then why are you bothering me.

I have no time to pussyfoot around anymore.

I have a case that if it goes the way I hopeI want it to...the fecal

matter is going to hit the oscillating motor. nothing like takingon the

worlds largest cosemtic company and one of the high end department chains

in the US. I am playing attorney and have gotten my ducks so far in line

for the attack.

So, when I do answeer anything I don't like to have to repeat myself.

It's counterproductive and it's not in my make-up to mollycoddle anyone

anymore. Did that and thats left for the cheap whores..oops, I'm sorry

the psychologists to play that nuturing role.....

I did not earn my moniker by being Donna or June Cleaver.

Everyone has their own effective way of transmitting information...thats

what makes educators/activists effective...diversity.

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006, Carl E. Grimes wrote:

> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 17:42:17 -0700

> From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

> Reply-

>

> Subject: [] Where are the experts? [was: Charlotte Teen with MCS]

>

> Angel and Group,

>

> The reason more experts aren't on this and other boards is because

> responding takes an incredible amount of time by people that are

> already busy. Their work calendars are often full for several weeks

> or months in advance with critical deadlines. I already have meetings

> scheduled in October.

>

> For example, I have made this group a priority for several months.

> But I didn't respond most of last week because I was traveling and

> had meetings with two groups in three days. Both were intense with

> critical issues that required initial preparation and after-hours

> work. I got 5-6 hours of sleep each night only because I made it

> happen. If I had included this or other groups I wouldn't have gotten

> any sleep. I'm paying the price this weekend.

>

> Also, it requires patience to answer the same questions over and over

> and still have the same issues come up again and again. It takes

> patience to explain vocabulary and concepts that took years of

> experience to obtain and do it in a non-teaching situation in a few

> lines of e-mail. But what is most frustrating is when information is

> ignored because of nonsense from sales people.

>

> Please understand that sales promotion is often the most appealing

> and convincing because that is their purpose. But that doesn't make

> them accurate or harmless.

>

> For example, while I was gone last week a client called to check on

> an ad in the local paper for an air purifier. She is severely

> reactive and the ad spoke directly to her needs. She wanted and

> NEEDED the results it promised. But the ad was patently false. There

> is absolutely no way it could do what it claimed. It could not remove

> carbon monoxide, it could not " hunt down pollutants like a guided

> missle, finding them where they hide, " it could not remove the

> acetone from fingernail clippings. (?) But when I finished

> explaining all this she asked, " But who does make one that does all

> that? " All she heard was " this " ad was a lie, not that the whole

> claim was a lie, regardless of who made it. She was bitterly

> disappointed when I said that no one does because it is impossible.

> Yes, this is what would help, yes this is exactly what she needed but

> it is impossible to do.

>

> I also realize that if someone does their due diligence and checks

> for information that they will become incredibly confused. Everyone

> says something different and there is no good way to qualify who you

> are listening to. It takes time and experience to earn trust. It

> takes time and experience - sometimes learning the hard way - to

> understand and trust what you decide to take a risk with. It is

> incredibly hard with sometimes terrible consequences.

>

> I hope Rhonda doesn't mind my using her as an example but look at how

> she did it. And for every post on-line there were 2 or 3 off-line.

> KC, myself and others spent the time with her because she was trying

> so hard and making progress. She didn't know who I was or why she

> should believe me. She wouldn't just " obey " an expert, she had to

> understand it for herself. Which is what we all should do. Do you

> know why I admire Rhonda so much? She verified her information and

> then made her own choices even though some of them didn't agree with

> my advise. That takes courage and hard work. The result is that she

> successfully solved the primary source of the problem and is now

> working of the secondary issues.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLc

>

> ----->

>> The case closed reference was to stop that the mold is the ONLY

>> trigger for MCS theory. It's not and those who adhere to it are no

>> better than the skeptics who say it's a psychological illness. Take

>> CFS for example, go to a neutologist and he see a nervous system

>> disorder, go to a rheumatoligist and he sees arthrisit etc. Those who

>> only see it as being related to their illness are harming others by

>> not allowing for the probability that one...as I stated is the

>> conduit/gateway for other immune system dysfunctions.

>>

>> Even in the chemical injury arena no one has the same symptoms, as

>> each chemical creates it s own unique set of symptoms. Pesticide

>> poisoinings are usually more neuologically centered as the pesticide

>> is designed to attack the bugs cns....that is my opnion why they can

>> not clearly define what exactly MCS is. No 2 peoples exposures are

>> from the same chemicals in the same ratio etc. Only those who we

>> injured in a common setting, it would APPEAR would have the same

>> symptoms, lab tests etc.

>>

>> This is a mold board so everyone apparently is convinced that mold is

>> the ultimate trigger. Wrong and people need to understand that one

>> can LEAD to the other, not only one causes the other.

>>

>> What I find ironic, is why there are so few mold medical

>> professionals/researchers on this board. The ones I deal with on

>> chemcial injury the top players are on it internationally. Why are so

>> many of the names (aside from Dr. Lipsey and Dr. Shaller) not on here?

>>

>> There are a very few on this board who are genuinely pro-active....why

>> aren't the rest?

>>

>> If am not sure, if there are any, people on here who have groups

>> intheir area educating people. If not, this board will serve to

>> preach to the choir, rather than educate the ones who need it.

>> Exchange of info is vital in any area of activism and by keeping it

>> betweem those who already are aware serves no purpose, at least in my

>> book.

>>

>> I will reitierate it again...ad nauseum....there is not ONE cause for

>> any of this!

>>

>>

>> On Sat, 4 Feb 2006, Carl E. Grimes wrote:

>>

>>> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 15:45:06 -0700

>>> From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

>>> Reply-

>>>

>>> Subject: Re: [] Charlotte Teen with MCS

>>>

>>> Angel,

>>>

>>> I wouldn't say " case closed " necessarily. Most of my clients that

>>> are reactive to both mold and chemicals receive more benefit by

>>> stopping the exposure to mold rather than to chemicals. I have

>>> clients that are reactive to mold but not chemicals and also some

>>> that have no mold reactivity and no history of mold exposure -

>>> beyond what we all have, i.e. normal fungal ecology - but severely

>>> react to chemicals. Could they have had a previous mold exposure

>>> that triggered it? We may never know. It may end up being similar to

>>> the nature vs nuture argument with the finding that it is the

>>> interaction between the two. One or the other predominates for one

>>> individual but the other for another. All I can do is work with what

>>> I have as I find it.

>>>

>>> Carl Grimes

>>> Healthy Habitats LLC

>>>

>>> -----

>>>> Did I miss the DIRECT correlation of her MCS to mold anywhere?

>>>>

>>>> Chemicals/mold etc are GATEWAYS for a compromised immune system to

>>>> be further injured.

>>>>

>>>> Case closed!

>>>>

>>>> Angel

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> On Sat, 4 Feb 2006, Carl E. Grimes wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 13:13:14 -0700

>>>>> From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

>>>>> Reply-

>>>>>

>>>>> Subject: [] Charlotte Teen with MCS

>>>>>

>>>>> I post this for two reasons: 1. As part of the discussion about

>>>>> the role of mold in MCS; and, 2. An idea for increasing awareness

>>>>> about the effects of mold.

>>>>>

>>>>> The news story is at:

>>>>> http://www.wsoctv.com/family/6281497/detail.html

>>>>>

>>>>> At the bottom is a link to the Chemical Sensitivity Foundation. A

>>>>> Mold Sensitivity Foundation could work. There is already some

>>>>> action at this level, including 's FDRC (any word

>>>>> on its current status?).

>>>>>

>>>>> Carl Grimes

>>>>> Healthy Habitats LLC

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Angel,

I guess my point is that anyone, but especially people in need, have

an extra challenge to learn from a crash course of " hard knocks. "

Learning and communication can't take place with transmission alone.

It needs feedback and interaction. Which is nearly impossible with

text only - but I'm working on it!

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Everyone has their own effective way of transmitting

> information...thats what makes educators/activists

> effective...diversity.

[Guest guest]

I would not suggest a portable chem chamber to create interaction.

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006, Carl E. Grimes wrote:

> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 18:33:28 -0700

> From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

> Angel!! <jap2bemc@...>

> Cc:

> Subject: Re: [] Where are the experts? [was: Charlotte Teen with

> MCS]

>

> Angel,

>

> I guess my point is that anyone, but especially people in need, have

> an extra challenge to learn from a crash course of " hard knocks. "

> Learning and communication can't take place with transmission alone.

> It needs feedback and interaction. Which is nearly impossible with

> text only - but I'm working on it!

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

>> Everyone has their own effective way of transmitting

>> information...thats what makes educators/activists

>> effective...diversity.

>

>

>

" Disease is the retribution of outraged nature. "

Hosea Ballou

" Some remedies are worse than the disease. "

Pubilius Syrus

" Toliet water was MEANT to be FLUSHED, not WORN! "

Angel

" If having endured much, we at last asserted our 'right to know' and if,

knowing, we have concluded that we are being asked to take senseless and

frightening risks, then we should no longer accept the counsel of those

who tell us that we must fill our world with poisonous chemicals, we

should look around and see what other course is open to us. "

Carson

" My toxicasa (world) is your toxicasa (world). "

Judith Goode

[Guest guest]

What? I don't understand your response.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats

-----

> I would not suggest a portable chem chamber to create interaction.

>

> On Sat, 4 Feb 2006, Carl E. Grimes wrote:

>

> > Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 18:33:28 -0700

> > From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

> > Angel!! <jap2bemc@...>

> > Cc:

> > Subject: Re: [] Where are the experts? [was: Charlotte

> > Teen with

> > MCS]

> >

> > Angel,

> >

> > I guess my point is that anyone, but especially people in need, have

> > an extra challenge to learn from a crash course of " hard knocks. "

> > Learning and communication can't take place with transmission alone.

> > It needs feedback and interaction. Which is nearly impossible with

> > text only - but I'm working on it!

> >

> > Carl Grimes

> > Healthy Habitats LLC

> >

> > -----

> >> Everyone has their own effective way of transmitting

> >> information...thats what makes educators/activists

> >> effective...diversity.

> >

> >

> >

>

> " Disease is the retribution of outraged nature. "

> Hosea Ballou

>

> " Some remedies are worse than the disease. "

> Pubilius Syrus

>

> " Toliet water was MEANT to be FLUSHED, not WORN! "

> Angel

>

> " If having endured much, we at last asserted our 'right to know' and

> if, knowing, we have concluded that we are being asked to take

> senseless and frightening risks, then we should no longer accept the

> counsel of those who tell us that we must fill our world with

> poisonous chemicals, we should look around and see what other course

> is open to us. "

> Carson

>

> " My toxicasa (world) is your toxicasa (world). "

> Judith Goode

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Referencing....the hard knocks.....since most people need

trial/error....and only USUALLY listen when they expereince

something......letting them expereince chem interaction aka chem

chamber...

On Sun, 5 Feb 2006, Carl E. Grimes wrote:

> Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 03:28:33 -0700

> From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

> Angel!! <jap2bemc@...>

> Cc:

> Subject: Re: [] Where are the experts? [was: Charlotte Teen with

> MCS]

>

> What? I don't understand your response.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats

>

> -----

>> I would not suggest a portable chem chamber to create interaction.

>>

>> On Sat, 4 Feb 2006, Carl E. Grimes wrote:

>>

>>> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 18:33:28 -0700

>>> From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

>>> Angel!! <jap2bemc@...>

>>> Cc:

>>> Subject: Re: [] Where are the experts? [was: Charlotte

>>> Teen with

>>> MCS]

>>>

>>> Angel,

>>>

>>> I guess my point is that anyone, but especially people in need, have

>>> an extra challenge to learn from a crash course of " hard knocks. "

>>> Learning and communication can't take place with transmission alone.

>>> It needs feedback and interaction. Which is nearly impossible with

>>> text only - but I'm working on it!

>>>

>>> Carl Grimes

>>> Healthy Habitats LLC

>>>

>>> -----

>>>> Everyone has their own effective way of transmitting

>>>> information...thats what makes educators/activists

>>>> effective...diversity.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>> " Disease is the retribution of outraged nature. "

>> Hosea Ballou

>>

>> " Some remedies are worse than the disease. "

>> Pubilius Syrus

>>

>> " Toliet water was MEANT to be FLUSHED, not WORN! "

>> Angel

>>

>> " If having endured much, we at last asserted our 'right to know' and

>> if, knowing, we have concluded that we are being asked to take

>> senseless and frightening risks, then we should no longer accept the

>> counsel of those who tell us that we must fill our world with

>> poisonous chemicals, we should look around and see what other course

>> is open to us. "

>> Carson

>>

>> " My toxicasa (world) is your toxicasa (world). "

>> Judith Goode

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

" Disease is the retribution of outraged nature. "

Hosea Ballou

" Some remedies are worse than the disease. "

Pubilius Syrus

" Toliet water was MEANT to be FLUSHED, not WORN! "

Angel

" If having endured much, we at last asserted our 'right to know' and if,

knowing, we have concluded that we are being asked to take senseless and

frightening risks, then we should no longer accept the counsel of those

who tell us that we must fill our world with poisonous chemicals, we

should look around and see what other course is open to us. "

Carson

" My toxicasa (world) is your toxicasa (world). "

Judith Goode

[Guest guest]

Oh. I meant in a communication context - say something, get feedback,

clarify etc. Who, besides Dr Rea has environmental chambers?

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

>

>

> Referencing....the hard knocks.....since most people need

> trial/error....and only USUALLY listen when they expereince

> something......letting them expereince chem interaction aka chem

> chamber...

>

> On Sun, 5 Feb 2006, Carl E. Grimes wrote:

>

> > Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 03:28:33 -0700

> > From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

> > Angel!! <jap2bemc@...>

> > Cc:

> > Subject: Re: [] Where are the experts? [was: Charlotte

> > Teen with

> > MCS]

> >

> > What? I don't understand your response.

> >

> > Carl Grimes

> > Healthy Habitats

> >

> > -----

> >> I would not suggest a portable chem chamber to create interaction.

> >>

> >> On Sat, 4 Feb 2006, Carl E. Grimes wrote:

> >>

> >>> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 18:33:28 -0700

> >>> From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

> >>> Angel!! <jap2bemc@...>

> >>> Cc:

> >>> Subject: Re: [] Where are the experts? [was:

> >>> Charlotte Teen with

> >>> MCS]

> >>>

> >>> Angel,

> >>>

> >>> I guess my point is that anyone, but especially people in need,

> >>> have an extra challenge to learn from a crash course of " hard

> >>> knocks. " Learning and communication can't take place with

> >>> transmission alone. It needs feedback and interaction. Which is

> >>> nearly impossible with text only - but I'm working on it!

> >>>

> >>> Carl Grimes

> >>> Healthy Habitats LLC

> >>>

> >>> -----

> >>>> Everyone has their own effective way of transmitting

> >>>> information...thats what makes educators/activists

> >>>> effective...diversity.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >> " Disease is the retribution of outraged nature. "

> >> Hosea Ballou

> >>

> >> " Some remedies are worse than the disease. "

> >> Pubilius Syrus

> >>

> >> " Toliet water was MEANT to be FLUSHED, not WORN! "

> >> Angel

> >>

> >> " If having endured much, we at last asserted our 'right to know'

> >> and if, knowing, we have concluded that we are being asked to take

> >> senseless and frightening risks, then we should no longer accept

> >> the counsel of those who tell us that we must fill our world with

> >> poisonous chemicals, we should look around and see what other

> >> course is open to us. "

> >> Carson

> >>

> >> " My toxicasa (world) is your toxicasa (world). "

> >> Judith Goode

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> " Disease is the retribution of outraged nature. "

> Hosea Ballou

>

> " Some remedies are worse than the disease. "

> Pubilius Syrus

>

> " Toliet water was MEANT to be FLUSHED, not WORN! "

> Angel

>

> " If having endured much, we at last asserted our 'right to know' and

> if, knowing, we have concluded that we are being asked to take

> senseless and frightening risks, then we should no longer accept the

> counsel of those who tell us that we must fill our world with

> poisonous chemicals, we should look around and see what other course

> is open to us. "

> Carson

>

> " My toxicasa (world) is your toxicasa (world). "

> Judith Goode

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It ws more of a sarcastic response....I have absolutely no idea who has

any other chambers.

Meaning...sometimes people have to get whacked enough times to finally see

the light (whacked=exposed)....so, to speed up their learning

process...just pop 'em into a chamber and it saves times (again, a

sarcastic comment).

Even though the entire fragrance industry is technically putting all of us

in a chem chamber when people apply their toxins to their bodies.

On Sun, 5 Feb 2006, Carl E. Grimes wrote:

> Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 16:27:16 -0700

> From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

> Angel!! <jap2bemc@...>,

> Cc:

> Subject: Re: [] Where are the experts? [was: Charlotte Teen with

> MCS]

>

> Oh. I meant in a communication context - say something, get feedback,

> clarify etc. Who, besides Dr Rea has environmental chambers?

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

>>

>>

>> Referencing....the hard knocks.....since most people need

>> trial/error....and only USUALLY listen when they expereince

>> something......letting them expereince chem interaction aka chem

>> chamber...

>>

>> On Sun, 5 Feb 2006, Carl E. Grimes wrote:

>>

>>> Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 03:28:33 -0700

>>> From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

>>> Angel!! <jap2bemc@...>

>>> Cc:

>>> Subject: Re: [] Where are the experts? [was: Charlotte

>>> Teen with

>>> MCS]

>>>

>>> What? I don't understand your response.

>>>

>>> Carl Grimes

>>> Healthy Habitats

>>>

>>> -----

>>>> I would not suggest a portable chem chamber to create interaction.

>>>>

>>>> On Sat, 4 Feb 2006, Carl E. Grimes wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 18:33:28 -0700

>>>>> From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

>>>>> Angel!! <jap2bemc@...>

>>>>> Cc:

>>>>> Subject: Re: [] Where are the experts? [was:

>>>>> Charlotte Teen with

>>>>> MCS]

>>>>>

>>>>> Angel,

>>>>>

>>>>> I guess my point is that anyone, but especially people in need,

>>>>> have an extra challenge to learn from a crash course of " hard

>>>>> knocks. " Learning and communication can't take place with

>>>>> transmission alone. It needs feedback and interaction. Which is

>>>>> nearly impossible with text only - but I'm working on it!

>>>>>

>>>>> Carl Grimes

>>>>> Healthy Habitats LLC

>>>>>

>>>>> -----

>>>>>> Everyone has their own effective way of transmitting

>>>>>> information...thats what makes educators/activists

>>>>>> effective...diversity.

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> " Disease is the retribution of outraged nature. "

>>>> Hosea Ballou

>>>>

>>>> " Some remedies are worse than the disease. "

>>>> Pubilius Syrus

>>>>

>>>> " Toliet water was MEANT to be FLUSHED, not WORN! "

>>>> Angel

>>>>

>>>> " If having endured much, we at last asserted our 'right to know'

>>>> and if, knowing, we have concluded that we are being asked to take

>>>> senseless and frightening risks, then we should no longer accept

>>>> the counsel of those who tell us that we must fill our world with

>>>> poisonous chemicals, we should look around and see what other

>>>> course is open to us. "

>>>> Carson

>>>>

>>>> " My toxicasa (world) is your toxicasa (world). "

>>>> Judith Goode

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>> " Disease is the retribution of outraged nature. "

>> Hosea Ballou

>>

>> " Some remedies are worse than the disease. "

>> Pubilius Syrus

>>

>> " Toliet water was MEANT to be FLUSHED, not WORN! "

>> Angel

>>

>> " If having endured much, we at last asserted our 'right to know' and

>> if, knowing, we have concluded that we are being asked to take

>> senseless and frightening risks, then we should no longer accept the

>> counsel of those who tell us that we must fill our world with

>> poisonous chemicals, we should look around and see what other course

>> is open to us. "

>> Carson

>>

>> " My toxicasa (world) is your toxicasa (world). "

>> Judith Goode

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>>

>>

>>