Re: CSM & Chitosan to bind micotoxins

[Guest guest]

I've never seen any studies saying 'chitosan' binds mycotoxins.. Does

anyone have any refs?

And hydrogen peroxide is basically free-radical city... probably not

good for you at all.. (except maybe as a dental rinse.. that you spit

out..)

Just my $0.02..

[Guest guest]

Hi Sharon,

I tried calling Dr.Marquardt just now and no one was available,

please let me know if you get a reply. Maybe he does not even work

there anymore.

The world of animal science may hold the key to micotoxin removal

since they have one up on people who conduct most human studies in

that they believe micotoxins exist. The fact they are researching

CSM alternatives speaks to the fact they want something different

because of cost or side effects? They have animal studies of

activated charcoal removing micotoxins as well. Maybe one should

switch every other week since each one could remove different

micotoxins better than the other? They do remove toxins and a pig's

I would rather go to Dr.Shoemaker, but until I can get the five or

so tests done which he describes, I am not ready to spend the money

to fly across the country, my son's health this winter is great with

no medications, but I am sure we will be back to problems this

spring or upon a mold exposure. I have thought about calling a

pharmacy to see if they sell much CSM and the names of the doctors

who prescribe it. I doubt they would give out that information, but

at least I would know there was a doctor in the area who prescribes

it(granted it could be for mere cholesterol, but with the popularity

of satins, I doubt it). When my son was on Sporanox, they had to

special order it since we were the only ones who used it.

I also saw a link where chitosan was compared to CSM in human

studies for cholesterol and it was promising and had less side

effects.

I have been taking chitosan myself for testing, but do not consider

myself sick. It did tighten me up a little at first. I am taking

only two 750mg tablets a day since around Christmas. I have never

been overweight, but may put on a few pounds during the winter

months. I noticed yesterday I was 172lbs and this is low for this

time of year and I have not been working out. I thought I felt

better since taking it, but that could be nothing more than a

placebo effect.

Fletch

[Guest guest]

Is this chitosan by perscription of health food- how do you know it

is fit for human consumption? It is ground crab shells- I have only

bought it in 20lb bags as a soil additive for killing nematoads

--- In , " fletch_82000 " <fletch_8@h...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Sharon,

>

> I tried calling Dr.Marquardt just now and no one was available,

> please let me know if you get a reply. Maybe he does not even

work

> there anymore.

>

> The world of animal science may hold the key to micotoxin removal

> since they have one up on people who conduct most human studies in

> that they believe micotoxins exist. The fact they are researching

> CSM alternatives speaks to the fact they want something different

> because of cost or side effects? They have animal studies of

> activated charcoal removing micotoxins as well. Maybe one should

> switch every other week since each one could remove different

> micotoxins better than the other? They do remove toxins and a

pig's

>

> I would rather go to Dr.Shoemaker, but until I can get the five or

> so tests done which he describes, I am not ready to spend the

money

> to fly across the country, my son's health this winter is great

with

> no medications, but I am sure we will be back to problems this

> spring or upon a mold exposure. I have thought about calling a

> pharmacy to see if they sell much CSM and the names of the doctors

> who prescribe it. I doubt they would give out that information,

but

> at least I would know there was a doctor in the area who

prescribes

> it(granted it could be for mere cholesterol, but with the

popularity

> of satins, I doubt it). When my son was on Sporanox, they had to

> special order it since we were the only ones who used it.

>

> I also saw a link where chitosan was compared to CSM in human

> studies for cholesterol and it was promising and had less side

> effects.

>

> I have been taking chitosan myself for testing, but do not

consider

> myself sick. It did tighten me up a little at first. I am taking

> only two 750mg tablets a day since around Christmas. I have never

> been overweight, but may put on a few pounds during the winter

> months. I noticed yesterday I was 172lbs and this is low for this

> time of year and I have not been working out. I thought I felt

> better since taking it, but that could be nothing more than a

> placebo effect.

>

> Fletch

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Rosie,

>>>>>>>>I would be the first to start a massive and aggressive email

campaign to stop dispensation of CSM without a script from a qualified

M.D. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I thought I heard a doctor on this board tell someone who was sick

from taking the CSM to cut back and that cutting back would still

remove toxins, just more slowly. That is the way I look at the

charcoal, it may work, just more slowly. Does not Dr.Shoemaker

believe that the toxins from mold recirculate in our body through the

intestine? So if something removed them 25% as good as CSM, I would

reason that so long as we removed the source of that toxin, we would

need to use it four times as long as CSM to remove it from our body.

CSM is a binder used in livestock as well as others, it is not the

only one which works. I would suppose, depending on the mode of

action, some binders are better at a particular toxin than another

much like some antibiotics are better at different bacteria than

others, depends on what kind are present. I hate the idea of feeding

animals binders for life, it is not natural. Feeding them if they

accidentally were exposed to a micotoxin contaminated feed is one

thing, but being put on a binder full time so as a way to purposely

use contaminated feed is asinine.

Dr.Shoemaker in Mold Warriors sounds like he keeps CSM in the kitchen

cabinet and merely takes it every once in a while if going into a

moldy place, that sounds like a drug that should not require a

prescription. If it were OTC, a doctor would be more apt to tell you

how you should take it knowing you may use it with or without him/her

instead of the way it is now where they tell I don't know about that

and it may be dangerous, here take steriods.

There are no doubt more dangerous drugs OTC than what CSM would be I

am sure.

Fletch

[Guest guest]

Dr Shoemaker clearly described that charcoal and chitosan lack the ion

binding charge of CSM and are ineffective at removing mycotoxins.

I see no further point in discussing their use.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

>>>> Dr Shoemaker clearly described that charcoal and chitosan lack

the ion binding charge of CSM and are ineffective at removing

mycotoxins. I see no further point in discussing their use.<<<<

Charcoal is used and there are studies on it to remove micotoxins in

farm animals who are often exposed to them in feed, but yes its mode

of action is different than CSM. Dr.Shaller's web page has a study

comparing charcoal's abilities on a specific micotoxin to CSM.

http://www.personalconsult.com/articles/moldandbiotoxins/comparingmol

dtoxinbinders.html

Dr.Schaller's book says the Army uses charcoal on micotoxins:

http://www.mold-free.org/whentrad25.pdf

Chitosan, like CSM's mode of action, has a positive charge:

http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/chi_006

7.shtml

\\\\\\\MECHANISM OF ACTION

Chitosan is, at the pH of the gastrointestinal tract, a positively

charged polymer and can bind to negatively charged substances. It is

believed that chitosan, similar to cholestryamine, has bile acid

sequestration activity and that this may be the mechanism for its

hypocholesterolemic effect. There is some evidence that chitosan

binds to bile acids and some evidence that the polymer affects the

metabolism of intestinal bile acids. However, in contrast to

cholestyramine, chitosan does not have consistent

hypocholesterolemic activity. There is also evidence that chitosan

binds to fats in the intestine, blocking their absorption.

The mechanism of action of chitosan's possible beneficial effects on

renal disease in some is unknown. Chitosan can absorb urea and

ammonia, but it is unclear whether this mechanism has anything to do

with its putative renal effects.////////

This is a study of CSM and Chitosan together:

http://www.wilkeresources.com/WILKEresources/ChitosanReferenceSummari

es.htm#6

Fletch

[Guest guest]

Hi Loni,

I don't know if those other things help, I really don't know if CSM

does for that matter. I am just posting information I find on the

net and one need to check it out for his or herself.

I would like to see Dr.Shoemaker, but am not ready to risk such an

investment unless I was sure we fit the protocol and I can not get

that done because no one locally will order the tests. Why are

tests needed to be prescribed if one wanted to spend the money

themselves? Drugs I can understand, not mere tests.

Animals are not humans, but I assume Dr.Schaller's study was on

humans with the charcoal.

I was not aware that the book mold warriors said anything about

other binders such as charcoal not working. There was a binder that

starts with " W " that did not work as good I remember being mentioned.

Dr.Schallers book When Traditional Medicine Fails, mentions charcoal

and chitosan, but does not endorse it other than the mention.

I hope CSM is not $2300 that mentions, maybe that included

everything(doctor,testing,etc)

Fletch

[Guest guest]

Fletch,

The CSM that my wife takes costs $50.00 per month (and no we have no

insurance). Her's is not the premade up packets, which I have heard

can cost quite a bit more. Not to mention the price changes from

pharmacy to pharmacy. I know several people who are paying about the

same price as I am. Check with the pharmacies in your area on

pricing. They also may get it from other manufacturers and if you

find one you like, you may have to ask for the product just from

that manufacturer when you refill your prescription.

Hope this helps,

KC

--- In , " fletch_82000 " <fletch_8@h...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Loni,

>

> I don't know if those other things help, I really don't know if

CSM

> does for that matter. I am just posting information I find on the

> net and one need to check it out for his or herself.

>

> I would like to see Dr.Shoemaker, but am not ready to risk such an

> investment unless I was sure we fit the protocol and I can not get

> that done because no one locally will order the tests. Why are

> tests needed to be prescribed if one wanted to spend the money

> themselves? Drugs I can understand, not mere tests.

>

> Animals are not humans, but I assume Dr.Schaller's study was on

> humans with the charcoal.

>

> I was not aware that the book mold warriors said anything about

> other binders such as charcoal not working. There was a binder

that

> starts with " W " that did not work as good I remember being

mentioned.

>

> Dr.Schallers book When Traditional Medicine Fails, mentions

charcoal

> and chitosan, but does not endorse it other than the mention.

>

> I hope CSM is not $2300 that mentions, maybe that

included

> everything(doctor,testing,etc)

>

> Fletch

>

[Guest guest]

Charcoal doesn't appear to have the correct charge.

I've seen enough failures on charcoal to let other people be the test

subjects and keep on trying. I'd be glad to change my view if it

finally works for someone after all these years.

Dr Shoemaker tells me that Chitosan would theoretically work if it

weren't deactivated by stomach acid, and that no amount of blocking

acid appears to work.

Dr Shoemakers word is good enough for me.

-

[Guest guest]

Loni Rosser wrote:

>

> Fletch, I guess other things are worth a try. I'm on the search

like you. Thanks, Loni

>

You know, we're all searching like crazy but there comes a time to

quit beating your head against the same wall that didn't " give " for

all those who have tried it before.

The German Dept of Defense that conducted biowarfare testing of

trichothecene on animals tried Dexamethasone and activated charcoal.

Their results indicated that it really didn't do much, if anything.

This was decades ago and yet because it " seems like it should work "

people are still throwing themselves at it, even though efficacy was

shown to be negligible.

Can't blame people for acting out of desperation, but you CAN point

out that it's been done before under controlled conditions and the

results weren't very encouraging.

-

[Guest guest]

KC,

I have recently discovered that Costco has a pharmacy, and they charge something

like 30

cents a pill for my diflucan, instead of the 13.00 each for name brand. If they

have a good

price for the CSM, the membership fee could end up saving you alot of money,

that is if

you have one near you.

>

> Fletch,

>

> The CSM that my wife takes costs $50.00 per month (and no we have no

> insurance). Her's is not the premade up packets, which I have heard

> can cost quite a bit more. Not to mention the price changes from

> pharmacy to pharmacy. I know several people who are paying about the

> same price as I am. Check with the pharmacies in your area on

> pricing. They also may get it from other manufacturers and if you

> find one you like, you may have to ask for the product just from

> that manufacturer when you refill your prescription.

>

> Hope this helps,

>

> KC