Re: need advise--sorry so long

[Guest guest]

Noelle,

I would pull him out of school. I pulled my daughter the last month of her 4th

grade year. It was a charter school, their were problems, the teacher had

health problems and her personality

changed, behavior in the school in general was getting out of hand.... whatever.

What I told my daughter was " It's my job to find the best match for you in a

learning environment and it's

your job to learn; this is no longer a good match so I'm doing my job and

changing your learning place and you can do your job of learning at home until I

find another place. " I do not

believe she is capable of evaluating a school as an adult would and so I never

give her the impression this is a joint decision, however I tell her her input

is important to me and I listen

to her opinions. She was adamantly opposed to the school I moved her to in 5th

grade but I knew it was a good place for her and told her I had done my job now

it was time for her to do hers,

period. She loves her school now. Clear limits are essential for her.

Don't worry about ruining school for your son forever, kids live in the present

and they also take your cue. The more matter of fact you can be about " doing

your job " the better.

Also, until his OCD is stabilized with the meds and all, his perceptions about

the world are off kilter anyway, at least that's how it is for my daughter.

Once her meds got right she took

that ability to be okay in the world into her new situation.

Your son is way too young to feel academic pressure - he's lucky to have a mom

who realizes that!

Dana

Noelle136@... wrote:

> From: Noelle136@...

>

> (Sorry if you are reading this twice, I sent it to several lists.)

>

> I am looking for some advise. I will try to explain the situation

briefly:

> My son is five and has been diagnosed with OCD for a yr. He is doing

fairly

> well considering how severe things were before we started medication last

> April. The problem is a school situation. He has a late b-day and is very

> small for his age, for these reasons, as well as the OCD struggle we decided

> long ago that he will repeat kindergarten next yr. He is in a private school

> now and will switch to a public school next year. He HATES school. His

> teacher has extreme expectations and he is just so overwhelmed and miserable.

> I have tried unsuccessfully to work with her but she will not give. He often

> gets no break from 8:30 until 1 PM because he cannot complete the amount of

> work she assigns and is often " in trouble " because he is not where she thinks

> he should be academically. She and I agreed that he could bring the work home

> but that he needs to have play time with the others. She is not following

> that agreement.

> Here is my dilemma. He has soooo much to deal with in his life right

now.

> His daddy just moved out forcing me back to work which is extremely hard on

> him, along with the OCD. Part of me wants to take him out of school for the

> rest of the year. As I said, he will be in kindergarten again next year. I

> do not want him to learn to quit things that he does not like or that are

> difficult for him yet I also do not want to hate school forever. I do fear

> that he will be so overwhelmed that he will feel only failure.

> I know in the end this must be a personal decision but I can't always

> understand the battle he faces with OCD. It has affected his self-esteem

> enough and I want him to feel he has a chance to succeed. Please, if you

can

> offer any advise it would be appreciated. I do not want to raise him to quit

> but I don't want him to see school as a miserable, insurmountable task. If

> more info would help I would welcome private e-mails. Thank you in advance

> for any help you can offer.

> noelle

> noelle136@...

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Come check out our brand new web site!

>

> Onelist: Making the Internet intimate

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> The is sponsored by the OCSDA. You may visit their

web site at http://www.ocdhelp.org/ and view schedules for chatroom support at

http://www.ocdhelp.org/chat.html

[Guest guest]

Excellent advice, Dana!

Re: need advise--sorry so long

From: Dana Carvalho <clayvon@...>

Noelle,

I would pull him out of school. I pulled my daughter the last month of

her 4th grade year. It was a charter school, their were problems, the

teacher had health problems and her personality

changed, behavior in the school in general was getting out of hand....

whatever. What I told my daughter was " It's my job to find the best

match for you in a learning environment and it's

your job to learn; this is no longer a good match so I'm doing my job

and changing your learning place and you can do your job of learning at

home until I find another place. " I do not

believe she is capable of evaluating a school as an adult would and so I

never give her the impression this is a joint decision, however I tell

her her input is important to me and I listen

to her opinions. She was adamantly opposed to the school I moved her to

in 5th grade but I knew it was a good place for her and told her I had

done my job now it was time for her to do hers,

period. She loves her school now. Clear limits are essential for her.

Don't worry about ruining school for your son forever, kids live in the

present and they also take your cue. The more matter of fact you can be

about " doing your job " the better.

Also, until his OCD is stabilized with the meds and all, his perceptions

about the world are off kilter anyway, at least that's how it is for my

daughter. Once her meds got right she took

that ability to be okay in the world into her new situation.

Your son is way too young to feel academic pressure - he's lucky to have

a mom who realizes that!

Dana

Noelle136@... wrote:

> From: Noelle136@...

>

> (Sorry if you are reading this twice, I sent it to several lists.)

>

> I am looking for some advise. I will try to explain the

situation briefly:

> My son is five and has been diagnosed with OCD for a yr. He

is doing fairly

> well considering how severe things were before we started medication

last

> April. The problem is a school situation. He has a late b-day and is

very

> small for his age, for these reasons, as well as the OCD struggle we

decided

> long ago that he will repeat kindergarten next yr. He is in a private

school

> now and will switch to a public school next year. He HATES school.

His

> teacher has extreme expectations and he is just so overwhelmed and

miserable.

> I have tried unsuccessfully to work with her but she will not give.

He often

> gets no break from 8:30 until 1 PM because he cannot complete the

amount of

> work she assigns and is often " in trouble " because he is not where she

thinks

> he should be academically. She and I agreed that he could bring the

work home

> but that he needs to have play time with the others. She is not

following

> that agreement.

> Here is my dilemma. He has soooo much to deal with in his

life right now.

> His daddy just moved out forcing me back to work which is extremely

hard on

> him, along with the OCD. Part of me wants to take him out of school

for the

> rest of the year. As I said, he will be in kindergarten again next

year. I

> do not want him to learn to quit things that he does not like or that

are

> difficult for him yet I also do not want to hate school forever. I do

fear

> that he will be so overwhelmed that he will feel only failure.

> I know in the end this must be a personal decision but I can't

always

> understand the battle he faces with OCD. It has affected his

self-esteem

> enough and I want him to feel he has a chance to succeed.

Please, if you can

> offer any advise it would be appreciated. I do not want to raise him

to quit

> but I don't want him to see school as a miserable, insurmountable

task. If

> more info would help I would welcome private e-mails. Thank you in

advance

> for any help you can offer.

> noelle

> noelle136@...

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Come check out our brand new web site!

>

> Onelist: Making the Internet intimate

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> The is sponsored by the OCSDA. You may visit

their web site at http://www.ocdhelp.org/ and view schedules for

chatroom support at http://www.ocdhelp.org/chat.html

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chatroom support at http://www.ocdhelp.org/chat.html

[Guest guest]

Noelle wrote:

> I am looking for some advise. I will try to explain the situation

briefly:

> My son is five and has been diagnosed with OCD for a yr. He is doing

fairly

> well considering how severe things were before we started medication last

> April. The problem is a school situation. He has a late b-day and is very

> small for his age, for these reasons, as well as the OCD struggle we decided

> long ago that he will repeat kindergarten next yr. He is in a private school

> now and will switch to a public school next year. He HATES school. His

> teacher has extreme expectations and he is just so overwhelmed and miserable.

> I have tried unsuccessfully to work with her but she will not give. He often

> gets no break from 8:30 until 1 PM because he cannot complete the amount of

> work she assigns and is often " in trouble " because he is not where she thinks

> he should be academically. She and I agreed that he could bring the work home

> but that he needs to have play time with the others. She is not following

> that agreement.

Noelle,

I agree with others that this situation sounds extremely stressful and

unhelpful for your son. The teacher sounds very rigid and lacking in

compassion. No child in kindergarten should ever be kept from playing

because he is not where his teacher thinks he " should be " academically.

This is nonsense. Keeping the child from playing, ANY child, not just

one with OCD, at that age, is only going to make the situation worse. I

agree that you can place him in a more appropriate program without

communicating to him that he is 'giving up' due to 'failure'; that's NOT

what this is about. I think that leaving him where he is could cause

him to develop more anxiety about school that will be difficult to

correct later.

I am sorry to hear that your family is going through so much upheaval.

If it is any help to you, I have been single-parenting and working

full-time since day one (except fot the past 5 months, during which I

have been too ill). My son loved day-care and loves his after-school

program, and feels proud of me for working in a challenging profession.

So, difficult as it is, it can work out well for the child. I did have

a run-in last year with his school about getting resource room help for

his dyslexia, but, now that he is receiving reading instruction that is

appropriate for him, he loves school again, too. I wish you and your

son the best.

Fran

[Guest guest]

Dear Noelle: As many of us have learned, it is a law that children be

protected when disabled. There is what is called a 504 plan. This plan is

worked out between yourself and the principal or special ed teacher and your

child's teacher. You decide what it is your child needs to feel good and

succeed in school and by law the teachers must abide by it. (They have

virtually no choice). Think of what your child needs in terms of his work day

and devise a plan. Ask for a meeting with the principal and important

players. You can also hire an advocate to go with you or ask her child's dr.

to attend. Good luck. Sheree

[Guest guest]

Noelle,

This is the first year my daughter has had a 504 plan, she's in 5th grade. Up

until that time I was able to work out an understanding with her teachers. This

year she has one of the best

teachers she's had but circumstances escalated to the point where the asst.

principal was involved and he was a complete jerk. My daughter, who is usually

very compliant , partly because she

avoids embarrassment at all costs (we've sometimes seen it as a sign of

improvement when she gets in a little trouble!) got an " obsessional interest "

involving the computer. She heard about

the website altavista.com where you can type in questions. Once when we were at

a friend's house we were asking " what's the meaning of life " and where are the

best shoes " , joking that the

same info would come up. She got " sparked " by the silly energy and became

obssessed with this website. The next week at school she went on the internet

when she was supposed to be looking

up nutrition on the encyclopedia disk and she and 2 other girls started going

all over the web-at her lead. When they got to playboy.com (after hitting

altavista,backstreet boys,playgirl

etc.) someone told on them. The ast principal gave them all a 2 day in school

suspension(ISS).

*I was uncomfortable with this because I knew it would be potentially harmful

for her and it also wouldn't be effective in the sense that ISS would not cure

her of the trance state she gets

in when she's driven by an obbsession. But I decided that all in all it might

not be a bad thing for her to realise that there were some consequences bigger

than what she may have imagined

and I could refer back to this if she questions the need for meds in the future.

I met with the asst. principal and talked with him about the importance of not

humiliating her during the

ISS. I explained that it could trigger an emotional meltdown where she gets

intense intrusive thoughts about her worthlessness, ugliness, need to die. We

made a plan of what to do if this

happened. Then he completely ignored all I said.Part of ISS is sitting in the

middle of the cafeteria with the ISS teacher and eating a silent lunch - with

your own classmates in there and

instructed not to talk or make eye-contact with you! There's more but this is

turning into a book so I'll stop. After 2 days of this she was quite fragile

and when she returned to class she

couldn't cope,imagined that nobody liked her etc. The good that came out of

this was up until now her teacher, school officials etc. had only seen her

little " quirks " (need for order, symetry

etc) and had not really listened to or believed me when I said she had a history

of more than quirks, meds are great but pay attention to these things...When

they saw her lose it they were

shocked. They felt terrible and ended up asking me to write a 504 plan to help

them. Except for the asst.prin. who was a pompous arrogant creep ; I wrote him

a nasty letter. But the

guidance counselor (whose daughter is one of my daughter's best friends) and the

teacher were very upset about it and remorseful and helpful. Her 504 plan

consists of:

* A brief statement from her doctor explaining that her thoughts are

sometimes " internally focused " and so she sometimes misses things said in class

and so assignments need to be written

as well as verbal

* A page written by me regarding her sypmtoms and instuctions about what to

do in case of..... I also describe BSE's and what to look out for and report to

me. I was sure to mention

" obssessional interests " so she would not be punished in such a dumb way in

the future.

* A list of classroom accomadations written by her teacher.

I hope this is helpful , I know our situations and children are all different

but I have gotten some great ideas from reading about other people's

experiences. My daughter is doing great in

school for now and this support group has been really helpful.

Dana

SSacks9021@... wrote:

> From: SSacks9021@...

>

> Dear Noelle: As many of us have learned, it is a law that children be

> protected when disabled. There is what is called a 504 plan. This plan is

> worked out between yourself and the principal or special ed teacher and your

> child's teacher. You decide what it is your child needs to feel good and

> succeed in school and by law the teachers must abide by it. (They have

> virtually no choice). Think of what your child needs in terms of his work day

> and devise a plan. Ask for a meeting with the principal and important

> players. You can also hire an advocate to go with you or ask her child's dr.

> to attend. Good luck. Sheree

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Come check out our brand new web site!

>

> Onelist: Making the Internet intimate

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> The is sponsored by the OCSDA. You may visit their

web site at http://www.ocdhelp.org/ and view schedules for chatroom support at

http://www.ocdhelp.org/chat.html

[Guest guest]

Dana Carvalho wrote:

>

> This is the first year my daughter has had a 504 plan, she's in 5th

> grade. Up until that time I was able to work out an understanding

> with her teachers. This year she has one of the best teachers she's

> had but circumstances escalated to the point where the asst. principal

> was involved and he was a complete jerk.

> Her

> 504 plan consists of:

>

> * A brief statement from her doctor explaining that her thoughts

> are sometimes " internally focused " and so she sometimes misses

> things said in class and so assignments need to be written as

> well as verbal

> * A page written by me regarding her sypmtoms and instuctions about

> what to do in case of..... I also describe BSE's and what to look

> out for and report to me. I was sure to mention " obssessional

> interests " so she would not be punished in such a dumb way in the

> future.

> * A list of classroom accomadations written by her teacher.

>

> I hope this is helpful , I know our situations and children are all

> different but I have gotten some great ideas from reading about other

> people's experiences. My daughter is doing great in school for now and

> this support group has been really helpful.

Dana,

Thank you so much for sharing this. It is a shame that your daughter

had to go through humiliating punishment in order to get it, but, at

least now she is protected. I am glad that she is now doing great in school.

Fran

[Guest guest]

Hi Dana:

You wrote:

She heard about

>the website altavista.com where you can type in questions. Once when we

>were at a friend's house we were asking " what's the meaning of life " and

>where are the best shoes " , joking that the

>same info would come up. She got " sparked " by the silly energy and became

>obssessed with this website. The next week at school she went on the

>internet when she was supposed to be looking

>up nutrition on the encyclopedia disk and she and 2 other girls started

>going all over the web-at her lead. When they got to playboy.com (after

>hitting altavista,backstreet boys,playgirl

>etc.) someone told on them. The ast principal gave them all a 2 day in

>school suspension(ISS).

>*I was uncomfortable with this because I knew it would be potentially

>harmful for her and it also wouldn't be effective in the sense that ISS

>would not cure her of the trance state she gets

>in when she's driven by an obbsession. But I decided that all in all it

>might not be a bad thing for her to realise that there were some

>consequences bigger than what she may have imagined

>and I could refer back to this if she questions the need for meds in the

>future. I met with the asst. principal and talked with him about the

>importance of not humiliating her during the

>ISS. I explained that it could trigger an emotional meltdown where she

>gets intense intrusive thoughts about her worthlessness, ugliness, need to

>die. We made a plan of what to do if this

>happened. Then he completely ignored all I said.Part of ISS is sitting in

>the middle of the cafeteria with the ISS teacher and eating a silent lunch

>- with your own classmates in there and

>instructed not to talk or make eye-contact with you! There's more but this

>is turning into a book so I'll stop. After 2 days of this she was quite

>fragile and when she returned to class she

>couldn't cope,imagined that nobody liked her etc. The good that came out

>of this was up until now her teacher, school officials etc. had only seen

>her little " quirks " (need for order, symetry

>etc) and had not really listened to or believed me when I said she had a

>history of more than quirks, meds are great but pay attention to these

>things...When they saw her lose it they were

>shocked. They felt terrible and ended up asking me to write a 504 plan to

>help them. Except for the asst.prin. who was a pompous arrogant creep ; I

>wrote him a nasty letter. But the

>guidance counselor (whose daughter is one of my daughter's best friends)

>and the teacher were very upset about it and remorseful and helpful. Her

>504 plan consists of:

>

> * A brief statement from her doctor explaining that her thoughts are

>sometimes " internally focused " and so she sometimes misses things said in

>class and so assignments need to be written

> as well as verbal

> * A page written by me regarding her sypmtoms and instuctions about

>what to do in case of..... I also describe BSE's and what to look out for

>and report to me. I was sure to mention

> " obssessional interests " so she would not be punished in such a dumb

>way in the future.

> * A list of classroom accomadations written by her teacher.

>

This ISS requiring a public shunning of a student sounds incredibly harmful

to me. Not only to our children with NBDs but to any child. In grade 5

peer pressure really does not need to be this severe to get the message

through. It shouldn't take legally sanctioned action, e.g. 504 status, to

stop schools resorting to this form of punishment. After all we don't put

people in the stocks anymore. I do agree there needs to be a consequence

even if the behavior is due to their OCD, or else how will they learn that

society will not be tolerant of " socially unacceptable " behaviors.

Something less humiliating would also work well.

Dana, it sounds like you really know how to write a 504 plan. Are there

any parts that you think every parent of a 504 child should include in

their plans? Thanks for sharing, I hope your daughter has found a way of

understanding this ISS. Aloha, Kathy

kathyh@...

[Guest guest]

It sounds like your daughter's school practices " shunning " and

humiliation as a means to control behavior.  This is an unacceptable

punishment for ANY child - how cruel!.

Re: need advise--sorry so long

Noelle,

This is the first year my daughter has had a 504 plan, she's in 5th

grade.  Up until that time I was able to work out an understanding with

her teachers.  This year she has one of the best teachers she's had but

circumstances escalated to the point where the asst. principal was

involved and he was a complete jerk.  My daughter, who is usually very

compliant , partly because she avoids embarrassment at all costs (we've

sometimes seen it as a sign of improvement when she gets in a little

trouble!) got an " obsessional interest " involving the computer.  She

heard about the website altavista.com where you can type in questions. 

Once when we were at a friend's house we were asking " what's the meaning

of life " and where are the best shoes " , joking that the same info would

come up.  She got " sparked " by the silly energy and became obssessed

with this website.  The next week at school she went on the internet

when she was supposed to be looking up nutrition on the encyclopedia

disk and she and 2 other girls started going all over the web-at her

lead.  When they got to playboy.com (after hitting altavista,backstreet

boys,playgirl etc.) someone told on them.  The ast principal gave them

all a 2 day in school suspension(ISS).

* I was uncomfortable with this because I knew it would be

potentially harmful for her and it also wouldn't be effective in the

sense that ISS would not cure her of the trance state she gets in when

she's driven by an obbsession.  But I decided that all in all it might

not be a bad thing for her to realise that there were some consequences

bigger than what she may have imagined and I could refer back to this if

she questions the need for meds in the future.  I met with the asst.

principal and talked with him about the importance of not humiliating

her during the ISS. I explained that it could trigger an emotional

meltdown where she gets intense intrusive thoughts about her

worthlessness, ugliness, need to die.  We made a plan of what to do if

this happened.  Then he completely ignored all I said.Part of ISS is

sitting in the middle of the cafeteria with the ISS teacher and eating a

silent lunch - with your own classmates in there and instructed not to

talk or make eye-contact with you! There's more but this is turning into

a book so I'll stop.  After 2 days of this she was quite fragile and

when she returned to class she couldn't cope,imagined that nobody liked

her etc.  The good that came out of this was up until now her teacher,

school officials etc. had only seen her little " quirks " (need for order,

symetry etc) and had not really listened to or believed me when I said

she had a history of more than quirks, meds are great but pay attention

to these things...When they saw her lose it they were shocked.  They

felt terrible and ended up asking me to write a 504 plan to help them. 

Except for the asst.prin. who was a pompous arrogant creep ; I wrote him

a nasty letter.  But the guidance counselor (whose daughter is one of my

daughter's best friends) and the teacher were very upset about it and

remorseful and helpful. Her 504 plan consists of:

* A brief statement from her doctor explaining that her thoughts

are sometimes " internally focused " and so she sometimes misses things

said in class and so assignments need to be written as well as verbal

* A page written by me regarding her sypmtoms and instuctions

about what to do in case of..... I also describe BSE's and what to look

out for and report to me.  I was sure to mention " obssessional

interests " so she would not be punished in such a dumb way in the

future.

* A list of classroom accomadations written by her teacher.

I hope this is helpful , I know our situations and children are all

different but I have gotten some great ideas from reading about other

people's experiences. My daughter is doing great in school for now and

this support group has been really helpful.

Dana

SSacks9021@... wrote:

From: SSacks9021@...

Dear Noelle:  As many of us have learned, it is a law that children be

protected when disabled.  There is what is called a 504 plan.  This plan

is

worked out between yourself and the principal or special ed teacher and

your

child's teacher.  You decide what it is your child needs to feel good

and

succeed in school and by law the teachers must abide by it.  (They have

virtually no choice).  Think of what your child needs in terms of his

work day

and devise a plan.  Ask for a meeting with the principal and important

players.  You can also hire an advocate to go with you or ask her

child's dr.

to attend.  Good luck. Sheree

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Come check out our brand new web site!

Onelist: Making the Internet intimate

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The is sponsored by the OCSDA.   You may visit

their web site at http://www.ocdhelp.org/ and view schedules for

chatroom support at http://www.ocdhelp.org/chat.html