Guest guest Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Hi Group and Mandi: Sorry to jump right in here. Will post introduction in a few days, but wanted to comment Interesting, I have heard that td-dmps IS pulling lead. And this not just from Buttar, as you would suspect. A couple of people said their kid have gotten good lead pulls with that. Also the doctor that posted about the 30/20/50 results said he also got lead pulls. That doctor also said the kids that got the improvement clinically/behaviorally with the td-dmps were NOT necessarily the kids who were pulling anything. I thought that was interesting/confusing. Also, troubling what Dr. McC wrote about the possibility of td-dmps causing kidney problems. Like Mandi, we use the td-dmps with the ala. Unlike Mandi, we are using an every 6 hour during the day, every 8 hours at night, with minerals all the time protocol. Anxiously awaiting results from a fecal test I did (boy that was fun!!). But don't know what that will prove as the chelators were both td-dmps and ala. Also, I may be wrong, but I didn't get the impression that Dr. Buttar used anything on his son for that long. Am I wrong? Anyone aware of the actual time table? Looking forward to collaborating with all of you toward our children's continued success. Re: TD_DMPS/DMSA Thanks Nevin. Our listmate has done some analysis on the CK2 postings and come up with better stats than this. However, because of the way that list works I wonder how many posted that didn;t have improvements. I was never happy to put all my eggs in the TD DMPS basket, which is why we continue with Oral ALA on 3/11 schedule (my version of REAL chelation LOL). I also think so many of these kids have Lead issues also, DMPS is going to do much for that. Folks give up to soon when chelating, don't expect to be done is less than 2 years, plan for 4 IMHO. I think the kids who had chelated with other stuff in the past do better on it, just my gut feeling, and most of those will have done DMSA, which will pull Lead and Mercury. Bear in mind also, Buttar says, he TRIED EVERYTHING for Abe, so that kid had a whole lot of metals removed before he ver started the DMPS. Now we have the 12 month anniversay of TD DMPS presentation at Autism One and more folks have been on it that long, we shall know more. J McC I don;t think has any patients doign ti longer than 13 months. My thoughts anyways, we are 6 months into TD DMPS, nearly 80 round sof oral, mostly DMSA/ALA, a couple of round with Cilantro on day one and half a dozen with oral EDTA. NDF+ made him an even stimmier stim monster, Biochelate made him yeasty - but that may have been a good thing - as in yeast = metals moving out IMHO, not the chelator thing at all. If you loolk at it this way you can be happy about yeast! Works for me LOL MAndi In a message dated 09/08/2005 20:52:18 GMT Daylight Time, Nevin.Penny@... writes: agree with what a doctor I respect posted on another list: 30% improve, 20% get worse, and about 50% show no significant response to TD-DMPS. At the present time, I am looking into several kids on it (who improved clinically) who have what looks like possible kidney problems. We don't really know where this Hg is going that doesn't seem to show up in the urine tests, though a little better on the stool tests. Skin? Kidneys? Bones? I am not sure TD-DMSA will show any better statistics, but I feel it is safer, maybe slower but better than unsafe, less expensive, FDA approved, etc. and now that we have the transdermal and don't have to worry about increased fungal and other gut pathogens being stimulated as oral DMSA caused, I prefer it now to TD-DMPS. However, if labs are good and benefits are good and parents want to continue, I am not removing kids from it who are doing OK. However, in spite of what Buttar says, DMSA is a very good chelator and I and many other docs have mainstreamed kids on this chelation protocol for years with great safety records.Labs are very sporadic, and I hardly use them for guidance anymore, going by the clinical picture more, except for the mineralization issue with the DMPS which requires regular chemistry and RBC element panels.Dr. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 About the time on the chelators, I think it depends on how seriously poisoned the kid is. Andy reports that in his first book. I also think that if lead is present, that seriously complicates/prolongs the chelation. Maybe lead is a cover for the mercury? I also witnessed one of the docs on the one of the biochats say that when she gives chelators to an ADHD kid, the stuff just pours out of them, and quickly. Which would also lend credence to the theory that the more poisoned, the longer time needed on the chelator. And, of course, it would depend on each child's particular reaction to the chelator/s chosen. Interesting how some kids respond to a given chelator and their different response to a different chelator. Thinking of Sam, Mandi, and how he put on weight with the td-dmps. We added weight with the dmsa/ala and are continuing to put weight on with the td-dmps/ala combo. Now smack dab in the 50% with the weight. So nice to see a little bit of pudginess for the first time since she was 18 months old. Of course it could be the common denominator of the ala. Am loving the getting to comment without the irritating interference of the Circus act, Mandi!! Re: Re: TD_DMPS/DMSA In a message dated 10/08/2005 01:02:02 GMT Daylight Time, weinert@... writes: Does anyone think this might be a cause of the kidney damage Dr. M. isreporting? Is everyone carefully monitoring urine pH? I know we juststarted. >>>Could be..........big discussion about pH on Willis list at the moment, I could fwd some of it if you like Mandi in Dorset Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Marvelous!! Re: Re: TD_DMPS/DMSA In a message dated 10/08/2005 01:38:27 GMT Daylight Time, Ladyshrink111@... writes: Am loving the getting to comment without the irritating interference of the Circus act, Mandi!! >>>>Oh yes, he tried to join us but was politely declined - phew! Mandi x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Hello Mandi, Here is the Dr McCandless's message regarding with TD_DMPS and labs..Unfortunately I must have deleted the date the message was on the list.However it must be after the 5th of August as she responded to another member's question. Things are changing so quickly, aren't they? Nevin From: "Jaquelyn McCandless" <Subject: Re: td-dmps/td-dmsaI agree with what a doctor I respect posted on another list: 30% improve, 20% get worse, and about 50% show no significant response to TD-DMPS. At the present time, I am looking into several kids on it (who improved clinically) who have what looks like possible kidney problems. We don't really know where this Hg is going that doesn't seem to show up in the urine tests, though a little better on the stool tests. Skin? Kidneys? Bones? I am not sure TD-DMSA will show any better statistics, but I feel it is safer, maybe slower but better than unsafe, less expensive, FDA approved, etc. and now that we have the transdermal and don't have to worry about increased fungal and other gut pathogens being stimulated as oral DMSA caused, I prefer it now to TD-DMPS. However, if labs are good and benefits are good and parents want to continue, I am not removing kids from it who are doing OK. However, in spite of what Buttar says, DMSA is a very good chelator and I and many other docs have mainstreamed kids on this chelation protocol for years with great safety records.Labs are very sporadic, and I hardly use them for guidance anymore, going by the clinical picture more, except for the mineralization issue with the DMPS which requires regular chemistry and RBC element panels.Dr. JM [csb-autism-rx] td-dmps/td-dmsa>> Dr. JM>> Thank you for the clarification re the two chealating agents. In you post > you said that some children are not doing well on dmps. Do you mean not > tolerating or not getting improvements or no metals coming out. We have > been using td-dmps for 11 months have seen improvements over the year but > only lead in the red. we have now added edta to the mix. to be honest > there does not seem to be alot of post with large mercury pulls. But I > have seen two recently haveing good mercury pullsl on td-dmsa. In your > practice have you seen large (red) mercury pulls and are these after other > metal have been eliminated or does mercury come in drabs and dribbles? am > considering changing would value your input. thank you,>> Marlinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 In a message dated 10/08/2005 00:48:11 GMT Daylight Time, Ladyshrink111@... writes: Interesting, I have heard that td-dmps IS pulling lead. And this not just from Buttar, as you would suspect. A couple of people said their kid have gotten good lead pulls with that. Also the doctor that posted about the 30/20/50 results said he also got lead pulls. >>>We had Lead too, in RBC's and fecal. But.......I had stopped the TD DMPS to do an oral DMSA round 7 days before that blood draw. His RBC's were 3 times max ref. Theres a whole lot more Lead in him I am sure, convinced now the biggest culprit was old school a converted early 6-0's house, seberal times painted, they have been in the new one 3 years in November......... Glad you joined us Mandi x PS Not sure about Buttar's kid but he said he had DMPS IV's which for a little kid of 3 must have pulled big time, he must have done a few to be sure it wasn;t working I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 In a message dated 10/08/2005 01:02:02 GMT Daylight Time, weinert@... writes: Does anyone think this might be a cause of the kidney damage Dr. M. isreporting? Is everyone carefully monitoring urine pH? I know we juststarted. >>>Could be..........big discussion about pH on Willis list at the moment, I could fwd some of it if you like Mandi in Dorset Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 In a message dated 10/08/2005 01:38:27 GMT Daylight Time, Ladyshrink111@... writes: Am loving the getting to comment without the irritating interference of the Circus act, Mandi!! >>>>Oh yes, he tried to join us but was politely declined - phew! Mandi x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Hi, One point that leapt out at me when I recently got a chance to re-read Andy Cutler's Hair Test book is that unless you make sure your child's urine is alkaline there is a possibility of dropping off metals in the kidneys. I looked at postings and Andy seems to think this would mainly cause cadnium to be dropped off in the kidneys. He recommends trying to keep a urine pH of 8.0 (neutral is 7.0). He says this might happen with all the " thiol " chelators, by which I think he means DMPS, DMSA and ALA. Does anyone think this might be a cause of the kidney damage Dr. M. is reporting? Is everyone carefully monitoring urine pH? I know we just started. I'm not on CK2, so maybe this is old news there. I have not seen much about it on the A-M list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 > >>>Could be..........big discussion about pH on Willis list at the moment, I > could fwd some of it if you like Hi Mandi, That would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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