RE: external coccygeal adjustment

[Guest guest]

I have had success on multiple anterior

coccyx using the external procedure. Using ligament tension to create movement

in the coccyx causes a reflex reaction of increased blood flow and muscle

relaxation in the involved muscles. I have also had patients with an anterior

coccyx that did not respond to external adjusting and referred to a DC willing

to perform the internal procedure. Hopefully you can still find a chiro

utilizing this procedure.

Kehr

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of JPedersen DC

Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008

11:56 AM

or

Subject: external

coccygeal adjustment

re: " Tissue pull I to S then thrust P to A

and I to S. "

What does this accomplish for the coccygeal ligaments and/or spasmed coccygeus

muscles that are in fact holding the coccyx in an anterior position?

and " ANTERIOR coccyx, which is about the onyly way it moves

without fracture. "

I agree with this observation.

The anterior coccyx requires careful evaluation to determine which choice to

make.

Years ago there was a sharp difference of opinion on how to correct anterior

coccyx. Appearantly the discussion continues.

J. Pedersen DC

[Guest guest]

I have had success on multiple anterior

coccyx using the external procedure. Using ligament tension to create movement

in the coccyx causes a reflex reaction of increased blood flow and muscle

relaxation in the involved muscles. I have also had patients with an anterior

coccyx that did not respond to external adjusting and referred to a DC willing

to perform the internal procedure. Hopefully you can still find a chiro

utilizing this procedure.

Kehr

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of JPedersen DC

Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008

11:56 AM

or

Subject: external

coccygeal adjustment

re: " Tissue pull I to S then thrust P to A

and I to S. "

What does this accomplish for the coccygeal ligaments and/or spasmed coccygeus

muscles that are in fact holding the coccyx in an anterior position?

and " ANTERIOR coccyx, which is about the onyly way it moves

without fracture. "

I agree with this observation.

The anterior coccyx requires careful evaluation to determine which choice to

make.

Years ago there was a sharp difference of opinion on how to correct anterior

coccyx. Appearantly the discussion continues.

J. Pedersen DC

[Guest guest]

Why is it that so few docs are willing to do this procedure?! It is so simple and so rewarding to the patient ... and, when needed, it is the only thing that twill work. How can you walk away knowing you have not served your patient? Doctors need to get past the perceived notion that it is invasive -and that is all that is stopping you is the perception that it is a 'nasty' - put on a glove and make the correction. Yes, you want to have your CA in the office but so what .... when a patient needs this service, they need that service THEN...not a week down the road.

me 2 cents...

Sunny

Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: jkehr@...Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:14:34 -0700Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

I have had success on multiple anterior coccyx using the external procedure. Using ligament tension to create movement in the coccyx causes a reflex reaction of increased blood flow and muscle relaxation in the involved muscles. I have also had patients with an anterior coccyx that did not respond to external adjusting and referred to a DC willing to perform the internal procedure. Hopefully you can still find a chiro utilizing this procedure.

Kehr

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of JPedersen DCSent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:56 AMorSubject: external coccygeal adjustment

re: "Tissue pull I to S then thrust P to A and I to S."What does this accomplish for the coccygeal ligaments and/or spasmed coccygeus muscles that are in fact holding the coccyx in an anterior position?and "ANTERIOR coccyx, which is about the onyly way it moves without fracture."I agree with this observation.The anterior coccyx requires careful evaluation to determine which choice to make. Years ago there was a sharp difference of opinion on how to correct anterior coccyx. Appearantly the discussion continues.J. Pedersen DC

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[Guest guest]

Why is it that so few docs are willing to do this procedure?! It is so simple and so rewarding to the patient ... and, when needed, it is the only thing that twill work. How can you walk away knowing you have not served your patient? Doctors need to get past the perceived notion that it is invasive -and that is all that is stopping you is the perception that it is a 'nasty' - put on a glove and make the correction. Yes, you want to have your CA in the office but so what .... when a patient needs this service, they need that service THEN...not a week down the road.

me 2 cents...

Sunny

Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: jkehr@...Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:14:34 -0700Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

I have had success on multiple anterior coccyx using the external procedure. Using ligament tension to create movement in the coccyx causes a reflex reaction of increased blood flow and muscle relaxation in the involved muscles. I have also had patients with an anterior coccyx that did not respond to external adjusting and referred to a DC willing to perform the internal procedure. Hopefully you can still find a chiro utilizing this procedure.

Kehr

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of JPedersen DCSent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:56 AMorSubject: external coccygeal adjustment

re: "Tissue pull I to S then thrust P to A and I to S."What does this accomplish for the coccygeal ligaments and/or spasmed coccygeus muscles that are in fact holding the coccyx in an anterior position?and "ANTERIOR coccyx, which is about the onyly way it moves without fracture."I agree with this observation.The anterior coccyx requires careful evaluation to determine which choice to make. Years ago there was a sharp difference of opinion on how to correct anterior coccyx. Appearantly the discussion continues.J. Pedersen DC

Reveal your inner athlete and share it with friends on Windows Live. Share now!

[Guest guest]

I guess that solves it, Sunny is the gal

for the job! No all of us enjoy bodily fluids. I agree that some patients

need this procedure, but there is some added liability I do not wish to

encounter. I appreciate your skills and confidence Sunny.

Kehr

From: Sunny Kierstyn

[mailto:skrndc1@...]

Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008

12:49 PM

Kehr;

Subject: RE:

external coccygeal adjustment

Why is it that so few docs are willing to do this

procedure?! It is so simple and so rewarding to the patient ... and, when

needed, it is the only thing that twill work. How can you walk away

knowing you have not served your patient? Doctors need to get past the

perceived notion that it is invasive -and that is all that is stopping you is

the perception that it is a 'nasty' - put on a glove and make the

correction. Yes, you want to have your CA in the office but so what ....

when a patient needs this service, they need that service THEN...not a

week down the road.

me 2 cents...

Sunny

Fibromyalgia Care

Center of Oregon

2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541-

344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: jkehr@...

Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:14:34 -0700

Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

I have had success on multiple anterior

coccyx using the external procedure. Using ligament tension to create

movement in the coccyx causes a reflex reaction of increased blood flow and

muscle relaxation in the involved muscles. I have also had patients with

an anterior coccyx that did not respond to external adjusting and referred to a

DC willing to perform the internal procedure. Hopefully you can still

find a chiro utilizing this procedure.

Kehr

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of JPedersen DC

Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008

11:56 AM

or

Subject: external

coccygeal adjustment

re: " Tissue pull I to

S then thrust P to A and I to S. "

What does this accomplish for the coccygeal ligaments and/or spasmed coccygeus

muscles that are in fact holding the coccyx in an anterior position?

and " ANTERIOR coccyx, which is about the onyly way it moves

without fracture. "

I agree with this observation.

The anterior coccyx requires careful evaluation to determine which choice to

make.

Years ago there was a sharp difference of opinion on how to correct anterior

coccyx. Appearantly the discussion continues.

J. Pedersen DC

Reveal your inner athlete and share it with friends on

Windows Live. Share now!

[Guest guest]

Thanks but you are the one that needs to learn this ... no offense intended. The skill part is minimal - next time I see you I will (verbally) walk you through it - and the confidence comes with watching your patient sit up straight and be able to take in a big deep breath. It is such a simple procedure that you will be embarrassed that you didn't rise (no pun intended) to the occasion! ;'-)) it is a good trick to have in your warchest.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: jkehr@...Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 14:56:21 -0700Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

I guess that solves it, Sunny is the gal for the job! No all of us enjoy bodily fluids. I agree that some patients need this procedure, but there is some added liability I do not wish to encounter. I appreciate your skills and confidence Sunny.

Kehr

From: Sunny Kierstyn [mailto:skrndc1msn] Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:49 PM Kehr; Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

Why is it that so few docs are willing to do this procedure?! It is so simple and so rewarding to the patient ... and, when needed, it is the only thing that twill work. How can you walk away knowing you have not served your patient? Doctors need to get past the perceived notion that it is invasive -and that is all that is stopping you is the perception that it is a 'nasty' - put on a glove and make the correction. Yes, you want to have your CA in the office but so what .... when a patient needs this service, they need that service THEN...not a week down the road. me 2 cents... Sunny Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: jkehr@...Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:14:34 -0700Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

I have had success on multiple anterior coccyx using the external procedure. Using ligament tension to create movement in the coccyx causes a reflex reaction of increased blood flow and muscle relaxation in the involved muscles. I have also had patients with an anterior coccyx that did not respond to external adjusting and referred to a DC willing to perform the internal procedure. Hopefully you can still find a chiro utilizing this procedure.

Kehr

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of JPedersen DCSent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:56 AMorSubject: external coccygeal adjustment

re: "Tissue pull I to S then thrust P to A and I to S."What does this accomplish for the coccygeal ligaments and/or spasmed coccygeus muscles that are in fact holding the coccyx in an anterior position?and "ANTERIOR coccyx, which is about the onyly way it moves without fracture."I agree with this observation.The anterior coccyx requires careful evaluation to determine which choice to make. Years ago there was a sharp difference of opinion on how to correct anterior coccyx. Appearantly the discussion continues.J. Pedersen DC

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[Guest guest]

Sunny:

Do you know if Vogel is still around the PDX area? I know she used to do the procedure along with all womens stuff.....

Rod , DC

external coccygeal adjustment

re: "Tissue pull I to S then thrust P to A and I to S."What does this accomplish for the coccygeal ligaments and/or spasmed coccygeus muscles that are in fact holding the coccyx in an anterior position?and "ANTERIOR coccyx, which is about the onyly way it moves without fracture."I agree with this observation.The anterior coccyx requires careful evaluation to determine which choice to make. Years ago there was a sharp difference of opinion on how to correct anterior coccyx. Appearantly the discussion continues.J. Pedersen DC

Reveal your inner athlete and share it with friends on Windows Live. Share now!

[Guest guest]

In response to the "what does that do for spasmed coccygeal liagament and muscle"? statement. I have three words for you in the

name of D.D PALMER along with the rest of the founding fathers of our profession " MOVE THE BONE"!! Its great to be a CHIROPRACTOR!

From: jkehr@...Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 14:56:21 -0700Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

I guess that solves it, Sunny is the gal for the job! No all of us enjoy bodily fluids. I agree that some patients need this procedure, but there is some added liability I do not wish to encounter. I appreciate your skills and confidence Sunny.

Kehr

From: Sunny Kierstyn [mailto:skrndc1msn] Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:49 PM Kehr; Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

Why is it that so few docs are willing to do this procedure?! It is so simple and so rewarding to the patient ... and, when needed, it is the only thing that twill work. How can you walk away knowing you have not served your patient? Doctors need to get past the perceived notion that it is invasive -and that is all that is stopping you is the perception that it is a 'nasty' - put on a glove and make the correction. Yes, you want to have your CA in the office but so what .... when a patient needs this service, they need that service THEN...not a week down the road. me 2 cents... Sunny Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: jkehr@...Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:14:34 -0700Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

I have had success on multiple anterior coccyx using the external procedure. Using ligament tension to create movement in the coccyx causes a reflex reaction of increased blood flow and muscle relaxation in the involved muscles. I have also had patients with an anterior coccyx that did not respond to external adjusting and referred to a DC willing to perform the internal procedure. Hopefully you can still find a chiro utilizing this procedure.

Kehr

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of JPedersen DCSent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:56 AMorSubject: external coccygeal adjustment

re: "Tissue pull I to S then thrust P to A and I to S."What does this accomplish for the coccygeal ligaments and/or spasmed coccygeus muscles that are in fact holding the coccyx in an anterior position?and "ANTERIOR coccyx, which is about the onyly way it moves without fracture."I agree with this observation.The anterior coccyx requires careful evaluation to determine which choice to make. Years ago there was a sharp difference of opinion on how to correct anterior coccyx. Appearantly the discussion continues.J. Pedersen DC

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[Guest guest]

Hi All,

This internal coccyx maneuver question is an interesting

one. In 1979 I hopped into a classmate’s VW bug and we drove down

Hwy 101 to Long Beach, CA and Dr. Lowell Ward’s Spinal Column Stressology

clinic. I stayed for 4 months and lived in Dr. Ward’s motor home

and did an internship in his office. It was pretty fascinating in a

number of ways. Ward was a curious personality and had some innovative

ideas. He taught an internal coccyx procedure that involved firm pull

against the coccyx with a gloved finger, often while an assistant would bring

the patient’s legs up and down according to the doctor’s

instructions and often with simultaneous neck flexion, extension or other

spinal positioning. The idea was to release dural tension. Ward

referenced Alf Breig’s “Adverse mechanical tension in the central

nervous system: An analysis of cause and effect: relief by functional

neurosurgery” in which Breig discusses the neurology and pathophysiology

of dural tension. I practiced using the internal coccyx maneuver fairly

often with astounding results. I have no question that the internal

coccyx procedure is of value and that the external coccyx adjustment

can’t possibly have the same effect. You just can’t transfer

sufficient movement with an impulse from outside to come near the effect of the

procedure I described.

When I was working at Dr. Ward’s office I had an acute low

back episode with severe dural pain. Ward did the procedure, which, I

must say as a straight guy felt somewhat unusual, not particularly pleasant

(“What no wine and soft music first?”), but was no big trauma by

any stretch of the imagination. Immediately after the procedure I was

able to stand up straight with only a tiny vestige of the previous severe pain

and antalgic spasm. I saw this sort of response hundreds of times with

patients.

I think this is a very good mechanistic chiropractic procedure

that should be properly taught in our schools. Of course, there is a lot

of great chiropractic out there that our schools don’t know much about.

Having said that, it is an invasive procedure that I

haven’t done for about 6 years. Anticipating Dr. Simard’s

possible question, “Yes, the reason I don’t need to do the internal

coccyx maneuver is NMT. We are able to induce the body to release these

dural tension patterns without force, invasion of body or privacy using

NMT.” I will say, however, that if I didn’t know NMT and felt

the patient needed the internal coccyx procedure I would not hesitate to do it

– after a careful conversation with the patient, draping the patient

appropriately, and making sure to have an assistant in the room during the

procedure.

S. Feinberg, D.C.

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of andrew

cha

Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 7:40 PM

Kehr; oregndcs

Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

In response to the " what does that do for spasmed coccygeal liagament

and muscle " ? statement. I have three words for you in the

name of D.D PALMER along with the rest of the founding fathers of our

profession " MOVE THE BONE " !! Its great to be a CHIROPRACTOR!

From: jkehr@...

Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 14:56:21 -0700

Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

I guess that solves it, Sunny is the gal for the job! No all

of us enjoy bodily fluids. I agree that some patients need this

procedure, but there is some added liability I do not wish to encounter.

I appreciate your skills and confidence Sunny.

Kehr

From: Sunny Kierstyn

[mailto:skrndc1@...]

Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:49 PM

Kehr;

Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

Why

is it that so few docs are willing to do this procedure?! It is so simple

and so rewarding to the patient ... and, when needed, it is the only thing that

twill work. How can you walk away knowing you have not served your

patient? Doctors need to get past the perceived notion that it is

invasive -and that is all that is stopping you is the perception that it is a

'nasty' - put on a glove and make the correction. Yes, you want to have

your CA in the office but so what .... when a patient needs this service,

they need that service THEN...not a week down the road.

me 2 cents...

Sunny

Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon

2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene,

Oregon, 97401

541- 344-

0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

To:

From: jkehr@...

Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:14:34 -0700

Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

I have had success on multiple anterior coccyx using the external

procedure. Using ligament tension to create movement in the coccyx causes

a reflex reaction of increased blood flow and muscle relaxation in the involved

muscles. I have also had patients with an anterior coccyx that did not

respond to external adjusting and referred to a DC willing to perform the

internal procedure. Hopefully you can still find a chiro utilizing this

procedure.

Kehr

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of JPedersen

DC

Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:56 AM

or

Subject: external coccygeal adjustment

re:

" Tissue

pull I to S then thrust P to A and I to S. "

What does this accomplish for the coccygeal ligaments and/or spasmed coccygeus

muscles that are in fact holding the coccyx in an anterior position?

and " ANTERIOR coccyx, which is about the onyly way it moves

without fracture. "

I agree with this observation.

The anterior coccyx requires careful evaluation to determine which choice to

make.

Years ago there was a sharp difference of opinion on how to correct anterior

coccyx. Appearantly the discussion continues.

J. Pedersen DC

Reveal

your inner athlete and share it with friends on Windows Live. Share now!

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are. Start here.

[Guest guest]

I would second everything Sunny said here.

The internal coccyx adj does something very different from external,

its not complicated.

As far as uncomfortable, invasive, etc,

at least 50% of the issue is in the doctor's mind set,

if you get comfortable with the procedure, are confident that it will

help the patient,

the pt. will usually be fine with it. i alway make sure that I explain

what I am going to do, and get their permission,

document this as a PARQ- Procedures, alternative, risks, questions.

Definitely have an assistant in the room!

Marc

Marc Heller, DC

mheller@...

www.MarcHellerDC.com

Sunny Kierstyn wrote:

Why is it that so few docs are willing to do this procedure?! It

is so simple and so rewarding to the patient ... and, when needed, it

is the only thing that twill work. How can you walk away knowing you

have not served your patient? Doctors need to get past the perceived

notion that it is invasive -and that is all that is stopping you is the

perception that it is a 'nasty' - put on a glove and make the

correction. Yes, you want to have your CA in the office but so what

..... when a patient needs this service, they need that service

THEN...not a week down the road.

me 2 cents...

Sunny

Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon

2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: jkehr@...

Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:14:34 -0700

Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

I have had

success on multiple anterior coccyx using the external procedure.

Using ligament tension to create movement in the coccyx causes a reflex

reaction of increased blood flow and muscle relaxation in the involved

muscles. I have also had patients with an anterior coccyx that did not

respond to external adjusting and referred to a DC willing to perform

the internal procedure. Hopefully you can still find a chiro utilizing

this procedure.

Kehr

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of JPedersen DC

Sent: Tuesday, August

05, 2008 11:56 AM

or

Subject: [From

OregonDCs] external coccygeal adjustment

re: "Tissue

pull I to S then thrust P to A and I to S."

What does this accomplish for the coccygeal ligaments and/or spasmed

coccygeus muscles that are in fact holding the coccyx in an anterior

position?

and "ANTERIOR coccyx, which is about the onyly way it moves

without fracture."

I agree with this observation.

The anterior coccyx requires careful evaluation to determine which

choice to make.

Years ago there was a sharp difference of opinion on how to correct

anterior coccyx. Appearantly the discussion continues.

J. Pedersen DC

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Live. Share now!

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[Guest guest]

That's what blows my mind aboaut it, .... on the rother side of the fence, its invasiveness is an absolut so-what. NOT to do it would never be considered. On our side of the fence, internet-wide referral searches are necessary. ANd it is only our own mind set that is stopping us.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: dcdocbrian@...Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:19:10 -0700Subject: FW: external coccygeal adjustment

From: dcdocbrianmsnTo: mhellermarchellerdcSubject: RE: external coccygeal adjustmentDate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:18:24 -0700I totally agree with Dr. Heller regarding mindset. I have performed the internal procedure maybe 3 x in my practice lifetime. I was uneasy about it d/t my apprehensions plus what I felt my patients "expected" from a chiro regarding procedures. In the "end" everything was fine on each occasion by making sure I fully explained the procedure and rationale. On another note, I recently had a patient referred for what turned out to be a SI sprain. Prior to referral the MD performed a rectal exam. He felt he needed too and just did it. A totally different mindset. Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724

skrndc1msnCC: jkehr@...; From: mhellermarchellerdcDate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 06:40:34 -0700Subject: Re: external coccygeal adjustment

I would second everything Sunny said here.The internal coccyx adj does something very different from external,its not complicated.As far as uncomfortable, invasive, etc,at least 50% of the issue is in the doctor's mind set,if you get comfortable with the procedure, are confident that it will help the patient,the pt. will usually be fine with it. i alway make sure that I explain what I am going to do, and get their permission,document this as a PARQ- Procedures, alternative, risks, questions.Definitely have an assistant in the room!MarcMarc Heller, DC

mhellerMarcHellerDC

www.MarcHellerDC.com

Sunny Kierstyn wrote:

Why is it that so few docs are willing to do this procedure?! It is so simple and so rewarding to the patient ... and, when needed, it is the only thing that twill work. How can you walk away knowing you have not served your patient? Doctors need to get past the perceived notion that it is invasive -and that is all that is stopping you is the perception that it is a 'nasty' - put on a glove and make the correction. Yes, you want to have your CA in the office but so what .... when a patient needs this service, they need that service THEN...not a week down the road. me 2 cents... Sunny Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: jkehr@...Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:14:34 -0700Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

I have had success on multiple anterior coccyx using the external procedure. Using ligament tension to create movement in the coccyx causes a reflex reaction of increased blood flow and muscle relaxation in the involved muscles. I have also had patients with an anterior coccyx that did not respond to external adjusting and referred to a DC willing to perform the internal procedure. Hopefully you can still find a chiro utilizing this procedure.

Kehr

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of JPedersen DCSent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:56 AMorSubject: external coccygeal adjustment

re: "Tissue pull I to S then thrust P to A and I to S."What does this accomplish for the coccygeal ligaments and/or spasmed coccygeus muscles that are in fact holding the coccyx in an anterior position?and "ANTERIOR coccyx, which is about the onyly way it moves without fracture."I agree with this observation.The anterior coccyx requires careful evaluation to determine which choice to make. Years ago there was a sharp difference of opinion on how to correct anterior coccyx. Appearantly the discussion continues.J. Pedersen DC

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[Guest guest]

Yup!!!

S. Feinberg, D.C.

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 3:46 PM

BRIAN SEITZ; oregon DCs

Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

That's what blows my mind aboaut it, ....

on the rother side of the fence, its invasiveness is an absolut

so-what. NOT to do it would never be considered. On our side

of the fence, internet-wide referral searches are necessary. ANd it

is only our own mind set that is stopping us.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC

Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon

2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: dcdocbrian@...

Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:19:10 -0700

Subject: FW: external coccygeal adjustment

From: dcdocbrian@...

mheller@...

Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:18:24 -0700

I totally agree with Dr. Heller regarding mindset. I have performed the

internal procedure maybe 3 x in my practice lifetime. I was uneasy about

it d/t my apprehensions plus what I felt my patients " expected " from

a chiro regarding procedures. In the " end " everything was fine

on each occasion by making sure I fully explained the procedure and

rationale. On another note, I recently had a patient referred for what

turned out to be a SI sprain. Prior to referral the MD performed a rectal

exam. He felt he needed too and just did it. A totally different

mindset.

Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians

730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123

(503)640-3724

skrndc1@...

CC: jkehr@...;

From: mheller@...

Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 06:40:34 -0700

Subject: Re: external coccygeal adjustment

I would second everything Sunny said here.

The internal coccyx adj does something very different from external,

its not complicated.

As far as uncomfortable, invasive, etc,

at least 50% of the issue is in the doctor's mind set,

if you get comfortable with the procedure, are confident that it will help the

patient,

the pt. will usually be fine with it. i alway make sure that I explain what I

am going to do, and get their permission,

document this as a PARQ- Procedures, alternative, risks, questions.

Definitely have an assistant in the room!

Marc

Marc Heller, DCmheller@...www.MarcHellerDC.com

Sunny Kierstyn wrote:

Why is it that so few docs are

willing to do this procedure?! It is so simple and so rewarding to the

patient ... and, when needed, it is the only thing that twill work. How

can you walk away knowing you have not served your patient? Doctors need

to get past the perceived notion that it is invasive -and that is all that is

stopping you is the perception that it is a 'nasty' - put on a glove and make

the correction. Yes, you want to have your CA in the office but so what

..... when a patient needs this service, they need that service THEN...not

a week down the road.

me 2 cents...

Sunny

Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon

2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: jkehr@...

Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:14:34 -0700

Subject: RE: external coccygeal adjustment

I have had success on

multiple anterior coccyx using the external procedure. Using ligament

tension to create movement in the coccyx causes a reflex reaction of increased

blood flow and muscle relaxation in the involved muscles. I have also had

patients with an anterior coccyx that did not respond to external adjusting and

referred to a DC willing to perform the internal procedure. Hopefully you

can still find a chiro utilizing this procedure.

Kehr

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf

Of JPedersen DC

Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:56 AM

or

Subject: external coccygeal adjustment

re:

" Tissue pull I to S then thrust P to A and I to S. "

What does this accomplish for the coccygeal ligaments and/or spasmed coccygeus

muscles that are in fact holding the coccyx in an anterior position?

and " ANTERIOR coccyx, which is about the onyly way it moves

without fracture. "

I agree with this observation.

The anterior coccyx requires careful evaluation to determine which choice to

make.

Years ago there was a sharp difference of opinion on how to correct anterior

coccyx. Appearantly the discussion continues.

J. Pedersen DC

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