Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 N Purks wrote: > **Another question: I have another patient with the worst case of > CFS/Fibromyalgia I have ever seen. Her body pains (all over) are so severe > that getting through one day at a time without taking her own life is a big > challenge in itself. Any ideas how to start working with such a case? > Bjorn** > > Hi Bjorn > > I guess you know she should be addressing her mercury/heavy metal load. > > Yes, she removed all fillings 7 years ago. > > She may have a problem with corn too. I would get her off all corn (read > labels) and have her eat a lot of raw celery. > > Could be worth trying > > Particular botanicals are cat's claw, pau d'arco, chanca piedra, > chuchuhuasi, etc. Take a look at www.rainforestbio.com for the Shipibo tea, > Envirozon, Fiberzon, etc. > Another web site is www.rain-tree.com. If you'd like me to e-mail a lengthy > transcript of a lecture related to the botanicals and dark field blood tests > used in treatment of fibromyalgia and heavy metal toxity let me know. > > I can start checking their site out. > Thanks, Bjorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 Removing amalgams is only half the battle. Chelation with saunas & DMSA is necessary. Has the patient had a hair analysis recently? Ozone saunas with electrotherapeutic treatment should make a big difference. Regards, Noel. Prof. Noel P O Box 137 Parkville VIC 3052 Australia Phone 61 03 9639 6090 Fax 61 03 9639 6392 Email noelc@... Web http://www.smile.org.au Re: Fibromyalgia N Purks wrote: > **Another question: I have another patient with the worst case of > CFS/Fibromyalgia I have ever seen. Her body pains (all over) are so severe > that getting through one day at a time without taking her own life is a big > challenge in itself. Any ideas how to start working with such a case? > Bjorn** > > Hi Bjorn > > I guess you know she should be addressing her mercury/heavy metal load. > > Yes, she removed all fillings 7 years ago. > > She may have a problem with corn too. I would get her off all corn (read > labels) and have her eat a lot of raw celery. > > Could be worth trying > > Particular botanicals are cat's claw, pau d'arco, chanca piedra, > chuchuhuasi, etc. Take a look at www.rainforestbio.com for the Shipibo tea, > Envirozon, Fiberzon, etc. > Another web site is www.rain-tree.com. If you'd like me to e-mail a lengthy > transcript of a lecture related to the botanicals and dark field blood tests > used in treatment of fibromyalgia and heavy metal toxity let me know. > > I can start checking their site out. > Thanks, Bjorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 Noel wrote: > Chelation with saunas & DMSA is necessary. > > Using the QXCI diagnosis it doesn't show any significant remaining levels of mercury. This is not 100% of course, but seems credible to me. > > Has the patient had a hair analysis recently? > > No. > > Ozone saunas with electrotherapeutic treatment should make a big difference. > > YEs, unfortunately she does not tolerate even low grade electrotherapeutic treatment at this time. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 Dear Bjorn, Her liver is plugged. Have her do the liver cleanse. It makes a world of difference. Best of Health! Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh, LOH Re: Fibromyalgia > Noel wrote: > > > Chelation with saunas & DMSA is necessary. > > > > Using the QXCI diagnosis it doesn't show any significant remaining levels of mercury. This is not 100% of course, but seems credible to me. > > > > Has the patient had a hair analysis recently? > > > > No. > > > > Ozone saunas with electrotherapeutic treatment should make a big difference. > > > > YEs, unfortunately she does not tolerate even low grade electrotherapeutic treatment at this time. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 I will. Have started with the intestines and feel we need to do a bit more there. Then cal/mag and liver cleanse would be logical steps. Saul Pressman wrote: > Dear Bjorn, > > Her liver is plugged. Have her do the liver cleanse. > It makes a world of difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 Dear Bjorn, Has she tried Cytolog? It is reputed to be very helpful for FM. It is made from colostrum. http://www.cytolog.com/ Best of Health! Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh, LOH Re: Fibromyalgia > Noel wrote: > > > Chelation with saunas & DMSA is necessary. > > > > Using the QXCI diagnosis it doesn't show any significant remaining levels of mercury. This is not 100% of course, but seems credible to me. > > > > Has the patient had a hair analysis recently? > > > > No. > > > > Ozone saunas with electrotherapeutic treatment should make a big difference. > > > > YEs, unfortunately she does not tolerate even low grade electrotherapeutic treatment at this time. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 Get a hair analysis done & send it to me. Regards, Noel. Prof. Noel P O Box 137 Parkville VIC 3052 Australia Phone 61 03 9639 6090 Fax 61 03 9639 6392 Email noelc@... Web http://www.smile.org.au Re: Fibromyalgia Noel wrote: > Chelation with saunas & DMSA is necessary. > > Using the QXCI diagnosis it doesn't show any significant remaining levels of mercury. This is not 100% of course, but seems credible to me. > > Has the patient had a hair analysis recently? > > No. > > Ozone saunas with electrotherapeutic treatment should make a big difference. > > YEs, unfortunately she does not tolerate even low grade electrotherapeutic treatment at this time. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 No she hasn't, but I have experimented with cytolog treatment of some other CFS and allergy/Celiac patients without any noticable results whatsoever. Saul Pressman wrote: > Dear Bjorn, > > Has she tried Cytolog? > It is reputed to be very helpful for FM. > It is made from colostrum. > > http://www.cytolog.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2001 Report Share Posted December 4, 2001 --- Hi Simon! Check out the April 1998 issue of " The Physician & Sportsmedicine " for a good article on fibromyalgia beginning on page 55. Best wishes! Dan Wathen, Youngstown( OH ) State University In Supertraining@y..., callsime@h... wrote: > Dear Group > > Hey what gives?? My last question wasn't even posted on here. > > [Presumably it may have something to do with various and > virus problems that have abounded on the Internet lately - either > that, or you failed to bribe me enough Mel Siff] > > Anyway I'll repeat my question and ask if anyone in here can give me > some good references into fibromyalgia (areas of treatment, > classification, " do's and donts " etc). > > Thanks > > Simon O'Connor > Perth Western Australia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2002 Report Share Posted March 15, 2002 > <My sister has suffered from fibromyalgia for about 16 years now, First step is to remove likely dietary allergens - mainly wheat and pasturised milk products. Try to find raw milk. Make dietary changes first. [The person who referred that letter to us is a scientist, so she will most definitely be interested in some supporting references. Can you please supply any which show a connection between fibromyalgia and dietary allergens? Mel Siff] andrew brisbane australia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 Mel Siff wrote: <Someone sent us this letter anonymously: My sister has suffered from fibromyalgia for about 16 years now, only diagnosed in the last few years, but is in constant pain and the quality of her life becomes more and more eroded with time. The doctors don't seem to know that much about it but she has collected a large number of books on the illness, but to no avail. As a family we feel she needs to look for help further afield - do any of you know of any expert in the field or could you put us on to information which could help. I am putting out feelers and hoping that we will be able to find someone with knowledge, as at this stage she is so depressed that she feels life hardly worth living. A recent overseas trip " for relaxation " was obviously too much for her and she has returned worse than ever.> ****Recently I was looking on http://www.issaonline.com/ they have a course which you can go on. Maybe you could contact Gwen Hyatt. http://www.issaonline.com/Exercise_Fibromyalgia/ With any disease you need to take a multidisciplinary / interdisciplinary approach. E.g not only read about the disease but also look at things which you may think affect the disease, for example, I believe relaxation techniques are used, hence read about Yoga, TaiChi, Sport Psychology. " Exercise and Fibromyalgia (the course), was developed by world- renowned expert, author and fitness professional Gwen Hyatt, MS., and powered by the ISSA. Gwen is highly respected for her work with Exercise in Aging and Special Populations. " [unfortunately, the person concerned lives outside N America and lives in a country whose currency would make it impossible for her to pay for travel to take any course. Since Gwen Hyatt does not appear to be a medical practitioner, medical insurance would not pay a cent towards any such expenses. Moreover, while Hyatt may be acclaimed on the ISSA website, few or if any in the international medical and allied professions seem to have heard of her work or seen any clinical studies or scientific articles by her. Do you have any information besides that ISSA testimonial why she should be regarded as a definitive expert in the treatment of fibromyalgia? Incidentally, I have also just heard that the person who wrote to us has done yoga for years, has regularly jogged or walked in forests near her home for many years, while her diet has not been a typical Western one. This is what is making her case more perplexing. Forgive me if these comments seem a bit ungracious on this person's behalf, but she is a rather rational scientist and generally demands the usual proof and qualifications of anyone offering any treatment, especially if some even fussier medical insurance company is going to be convinced to contribute to possible treatment. Mel Siff] TESTIMONIALS FROM ISSA SITE " Since beginning yoga two years ago, my fibromyalgia symptoms have subsided. I currently teach a class for people with FMS, CFS, and arthritis. It consists of 20 minutes of interval training that includes light aerobic movements and strength exercises using light to medium weights. For example, we perform two minutes of light aerobic work and one minute of strength work. I then spend twenty minutes on yoga exercises focusing on gentle stretching, balance, and coordination. I conclude the class with ten minutes of Chi Gung including breath, centering, and relaxation techniques. " Kathy Sprague, Health/Fitness Professional, Pittsfield, Massachusetts " It may be very difficult when a client is beginning to exercise. I recommend a lot of stretching and starting slow. If your clients overdo it, they could have a relapse. I start clients off walking three to four times a week and light strength training two times a week. Some do not tolerate the strength training at first, until they get stronger with the cardio. I have clients rest longer between sets. As they get stronger, I have them work up to 20-30 minutes of cardio at 60-70 percent MHR. It usually takes about three months to get to that level. My goal is to teach them how to listen to their bodies and help them to gain strength, endurance, and maintain fitness, not to train for a marathon. " Debbie Luz, Personal Trainer, Folsom, California " I pace myself with work and projects and use relaxation, massage, chiropractic techniques, exercise, and nutrition to manage my fibromyalgia. A wellness lifestyle means being committed to nourishing and taking care of your body, mind, and spirit. I can't stress enough the importance of pacing yourself. Drop the all or nothing attitude, pace yourself, and prioritize the important things you need to do. Give yourself permission to heal. Take charge and take the steps you need to manage your life. Find what is important and do things that bring you joy and happiness. " Hope this helps Carruthers Wakefield UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 I would hope that this scientist will not limit herself to insisting on recommendations having a researched scientific basis. Fibromyalgia is not very well understood by mainstream medicine and very possibly some alternative therapies might hold the answer to at least making life more comfortable. [No, but she does insist on something that is " evidence-based " , where the evidence has been assembled under properly controlled and objective circumstances. What we saw on the ISSA site did not provide anything more than the usual testimonials by satisfied practitioners or clients. I have relied to a very great extent on " complementary " methods for my own cardiac rehabilitation, but I do so only if I can find necessary and sufficient evidence for using any given substance. Mel Siff] I used to be very leery of alternative therapies until I got involved in bodybuilding, so I can understand her reticense. A person should not just jump in feet first in desperation, which is so often an unhappy consequence of this sort of illness. However, it may be that symptom relief may come from someone outside the scientific research arena. It sounds like this individual is at a point where she should investigate and try things that are affordable and available where she lives even if they don't have a scientific basis. ISSA is usually a very giving organization and possibly if e-mailed, would send a transcript of Gwen Hyatt's talk or at least her suggestions. I don't see that this unfortunate lady has much to lose and hopefully a great deal to gain. [since there are many fibromyalgia sufferers, it would be even more useful if that sort of information could be shared on this list. Over to anyone else with suggestions! Mel Siff] Rosemary Wedderburn-Vernon Marina del Rey, CA IronRoses@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 I suffered from chronic muscle and tendon pains a few years ago. They weren't all over my body, but in many places throughout my hips and back, and some in the arms and legs. I tried many forms of treatment and looked all over for explanations or cures - I tried everthing from doctors, to PT's, to applied kinesiology, chiropractors, ortho-bionomists... you name it. I considered that my problem might be classified as 'Fibromyalgia'. What eventually worked for me was strength oriented yoga, constant attention to restructuring my basic postural and movement habits, and buying flat shoes 2 sizes bigger. I wonder whether many cases of 'Fibromyalgia' might have their roots in chronic, injurious postural and movement patterns, and that all the other symptoms stem from feedback loops that cascade from there (e.g., feeling constant pain --> increased sensitization to pain --> more profound constant pain --> fatigue and sleep disturbance ---> etc...) When I look over summaries of what is being done about fibromyalgia and the treatments being tried, I don't see anyone suggesting this as a possible explanation, or comprehensive transformation of postural and movement habits being tested as a treatment. What the particular yoga I studied offered that was different from the mainstream physical therapy approach was a paradigm of how the body should be held and how it should be moved, along with a series of progressive exercises to help me approach this ideal. By contrast, the physical therapist seemed to be stabbing in the dark - 'lets stretch this, strengthen that, etc...'. Unfortunately, I haven't come across any other yoga teachers with an even remotely similar focus or insight, so I can't recommend yoga in general - most of what I see is just a bunch of stretching. Two disciplines with a postural/movement pattern focus that I have read about which might be worth a try are The Technique and Feldenkrais. You probably won't find any studies proving they work, but the only real risk is potentially wasting money. Wilbanks ville, FL > Someone sent us this letter anonymously: > > <My sister has suffered from fibromyalgia for about 16 years now, only > diagnosed in the last few years, but is in constant pain and the quality of > her life becomes more and more eroded with time. The doctors don't seem to > know that much about it but she has collected a large number of books on the > illness, but to no avail. As a family we feel she needs to look for help > further afield - do any of you know of any expert in the field or could you > put us on to information which could help. I am putting out feelers and > hoping that we will be able to find someone with knowledge, as at this stage > she is so depressed that she feels life hardly worth living. A recent > overseas trip " for relaxation " was obviously too much for her and she has > returned worse than ever.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 Wilbanks writes:- <Two disciplines with a postural/movement pattern focus that I have read about which might be worth a try are The Technique and Feldenkrais. You probably won't find any studies proving they work, but the only real risk is potentially wasting money. > **** A few years ago I worked with a woman in her mid fifties diagnosed as suffering from fibromyalgia in my role as an teacher. At the time I knew nothing about the condition but I did notice in her a tendency to use what I thought was excessive effort for every task, even just standing and sitting. Over the weeks we were able to reduce this and slowly her symptoms started to improve. However, it did require constant awareness on her behalf and she would notice her condition worsening again if she resorted back to her old habits. Oddly enough several months after starting lessons, she reported that after suffering from constipation for over ten years she was now a regular person. Whether the excessive tension she held in her body impeded the processing of food and waste disposal is another matter. I do not know of any studies that could back my observations but I know of other therapists who have made similar findings. Roy Palmer Bedford UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 I reviewed the Fibromyalgia course from Desert Southwest by Gwen Hyatt last year for the NSCA certification commission in order to determine if it was appropriate for NSCA CEU's. I found the course to be well referenced and the information to be accurate. I would recommend it to anyone interested in fibromyalgia and exercise. [Does this imply that the medical profession should accept any treatment suggestions which appear in such an article? Being appropriate for NSCA CEUs can be a very different thing from recognising medical validity and convincing medical insurance companies to pay for any procedures. Mel Siff] Dan Wathen, Youngstown (OH) State University -------- Mel Siff wrote: > <Someone sent us this letter anonymously: > > My sister has suffered from fibromyalgia for about 16 years now, only > diagnosed in the last few years, but is in constant pain and the > quality of her life becomes more and more eroded with time. The > doctors don't seem to know that much about it but she has collected a > large number of books on the illness, but to no avail. As a family > we feel she needs to look for help further afield - do any of you > know of any expert in the field or could you put us on to information > which could help. I am putting out feelers and hoping that we will > be able to find someone with knowledge, as at this stage she is so > depressed that she feels life hardly worth living. A recent overseas > trip " for relaxation " was obviously too much for her and she has > returned worse than ever.> Carruthers wrote: >Recently I was looking on http://www.issaonline.com/ they have a > course which you can go on. Maybe you could contact Gwen Hyatt. > > http://www.issaonline.com/Exercise_Fibromyalgia/ > > With any disease you need to take a multidisciplinary / > interdisciplinary approach. E.g not only read about the disease but > also look at things which you may think affect the disease, for > example, I believe relaxation techniques are used, hence read about > Yoga, TaiChi, Sport Psychology. > > " Exercise and Fibromyalgia (the course), was developed by world- > renowned expert, author and fitness professional Gwen Hyatt, MS., and > powered by the ISSA. Gwen is highly respected for her work with > Exercise in Aging and Special Populations. " > > [unfortunately, the person concerned lives outside N America and lives in a country > whose currency would make it impossible for her to pay for travel to take any course. > Since Gwen Hyatt does not appear to be a medical practitioner, medical insurance would > not pay a cent towards any such expenses. Moreover, while Hyatt may be acclaimed on the > ISSA website, few or if any in the international medical and allied professions seem to have > heard of her work or seen any clinical studies or scientific articles by her. Do you have any > information besides that ISSA testimonial why she should be regarded as a definitive > expert in the treatment of fibromyalgia? Incidentally, I have also just heard that > the person who wrote to us has done yoga for years, has regularly jogged or walked in forests > near her home for many years, while her diet has not been a typical Western one. > This is what is making her case more perplexing. Forgive me if these comments seem > a bit ungracious on this person's behalf, but she is a rather rational scientist and > generally demands the usual proof and qualifications of anyone offering any treatment, > especially if some even fussier medical insurance company is going to be convinced to > contribute to possible treatment. Mel Siff] > > TESTIMONIALS FROM ISSA SITE > > " Since beginning yoga two years ago, my fibromyalgia symptoms have > subsided. I currently teach a class for people with FMS, CFS, and > arthritis. It consists of 20 minutes of interval training that > includes light aerobic movements and strength exercises using light > to medium weights. For example, we perform two minutes of light > aerobic work and one minute of strength work. I then spend twenty > minutes on yoga exercises focusing on gentle stretching, balance, and > coordination. I conclude the class with ten minutes of Chi Gung > including breath, centering, and relaxation techniques. " > > Kathy Sprague, Health/Fitness Professional, Pittsfield, Massachusetts > > " It may be very difficult when a client is beginning to exercise. I > recommend a lot of stretching and starting slow. If your clients > overdo it, they could have a relapse. I start clients off walking > three to four times a week and light strength training two times a > week. Some do not tolerate the strength training at first, until they > get stronger with the cardio. I have clients rest longer between > sets. As they get stronger, I have them work up to 20-30 minutes of > cardio at 60-70 percent MHR. It usually takes about three months to > get to that level. My goal is to teach them how to listen to their > bodies and help them to gain strength, endurance, and maintain > fitness, not to train for a marathon. " > > Debbie Luz, Personal Trainer, Folsom, California > > " I pace myself with work and projects and use relaxation, massage, > chiropractic techniques, exercise, and nutrition to manage my > fibromyalgia. A wellness lifestyle means being committed to > nourishing and taking care of your body, mind, and spirit. I can't > stress enough the importance of pacing yourself. Drop the all or > nothing attitude, pace yourself, and prioritize the important things > you need to do. Give yourself permission to heal. Take charge and > take the steps you need to manage your life. Find what is important > and do things that bring you joy and happiness. " > > Carruthers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2002 Report Share Posted March 19, 2002 --- Hi Mel! I was not trying to imply that medical professionals or insurance companies should embrace or blindly follow the Desert Southwest(Hyatt) course. To my recollection it is a rather short workbook with a 40 or so question test at the end. The information deals with fibromyalgia as it relates to exercise program considerations. I don't think it was very expensive and I suspect the workbook could be purchased quite nominally. Best wishes! Dan Wathen, Youngstown(OH) State University In Supertraining@y..., " icp328 " <icp328@y...> wrote: > I reviewed the Fibromyalgia course from Desert Southwest by Gwen Hyatt > last year for the NSCA certification commission in order to determine > if it was appropriate for NSCA CEU's. I found the course to be well > referenced and the information to be accurate. I would recommend it > to anyone interested in fibromyalgia and exercise. > > [Does this imply that the medical profession should accept any treatment > suggestions which appear in such an article? Being appropriate for NSCA > CEUs can be a very different thing from recognising medical validity and > convincing medical insurance companies to pay for any procedures. Mel Siff] > > Dan Wathen, > Youngstown (OH) State University > > -------- > > Mel Siff wrote: > > > <Someone sent us this letter anonymously: > > > > My sister has suffered from fibromyalgia for about 16 years now, only > > diagnosed in the last few years, but is in constant pain and the > > quality of her life becomes more and more eroded with time. The > > doctors don't seem to know that much about it but she has collected a > > large number of books on the illness, but to no avail. As a family > > we feel she needs to look for help further afield - do any of you > > know of any expert in the field or could you put us on to information > > which could help. I am putting out feelers and hoping that we will > > be able to find someone with knowledge, as at this stage she is so > > depressed that she feels life hardly worth living. A recent overseas > > trip " for relaxation " was obviously too much for her and she has > > returned worse than ever.> > > Carruthers wrote: > > >Recently I was looking on http://www.issaonline.com/ they have a > > course which you can go on. Maybe you could contact Gwen Hyatt. > > > > http://www.issaonline.com/Exercise_Fibromyalgia/ > > > > With any disease you need to take a multidisciplinary / > > interdisciplinary approach. E.g not only read about the disease but > > also look at things which you may think affect the disease, for > > example, I believe relaxation techniques are used, hence read about > > Yoga, TaiChi, Sport Psychology. > > > > " Exercise and Fibromyalgia (the course), was developed by world- > > renowned expert, author and fitness professional Gwen Hyatt, MS., and > > powered by the ISSA. Gwen is highly respected for her work with > > Exercise in Aging and Special Populations. " > > > > [unfortunately, the person concerned lives outside N America and lives in a country > > whose currency would make it impossible for her to pay for travel to take any course. > > Since Gwen Hyatt does not appear to be a medical practitioner, medical insurance would > > not pay a cent towards any such expenses. Moreover, while Hyatt may be acclaimed on the > > ISSA website, few or if any in the international medical and allied professions seem to have > > heard of her work or seen any clinical studies or scientific articles by her. Do you have any > > information besides that ISSA testimonial why she should be regarded as a definitive > > expert in the treatment of fibromyalgia? Incidentally, I have also just heard that > > the person who wrote to us has done yoga for years, has regularly jogged or walked in forests > > near her home for many years, while her diet has not been a typical Western one. > > This is what is making her case more perplexing. Forgive me if these comments seem > > a bit ungracious on this person's behalf, but she is a rather rational scientist and > > generally demands the usual proof and qualifications of anyone offering any treatment, > > especially if some even fussier medical insurance company is going to be convinced to > > contribute to possible treatment. Mel Siff] > > > > TESTIMONIALS FROM ISSA SITE > > > > " Since beginning yoga two years ago, my fibromyalgia symptoms have > > subsided. I currently teach a class for people with FMS, CFS, and > > arthritis. It consists of 20 minutes of interval training that > > includes light aerobic movements and strength exercises using light > > to medium weights. For example, we perform two minutes of light > > aerobic work and one minute of strength work. I then spend twenty > > minutes on yoga exercises focusing on gentle stretching, balance, > and > > coordination. I conclude the class with ten minutes of Chi Gung > > including breath, centering, and relaxation techniques. " > > > > Kathy Sprague, Health/Fitness Professional, Pittsfield, > Massachusetts > > > > " It may be very difficult when a client is beginning to exercise. I > > recommend a lot of stretching and starting slow. If your clients > > overdo it, they could have a relapse. I start clients off walking > > three to four times a week and light strength training two times a > > week. Some do not tolerate the strength training at first, until > they > > get stronger with the cardio. I have clients rest longer between > > sets. As they get stronger, I have them work up to 20-30 minutes of > > cardio at 60-70 percent MHR. It usually takes about three months to > > get to that level. My goal is to teach them how to listen to their > > bodies and help them to gain strength, endurance, and maintain > > fitness, not to train for a marathon. " > > > > Debbie Luz, Personal Trainer, Folsom, California > > > > " I pace myself with work and projects and use relaxation, massage, > > chiropractic techniques, exercise, and nutrition to manage my > > fibromyalgia. A wellness lifestyle means being committed to > > nourishing and taking care of your body, mind, and spirit. I can't > > stress enough the importance of pacing yourself. Drop the all or > > nothing attitude, pace yourself, and prioritize the important things > > you need to do. Give yourself permission to heal. Take charge and > > take the steps you need to manage your life. Find what is important > > and do things that bring you joy and happiness. " > > > > Carruthers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2002 Report Share Posted March 19, 2002 Mel Siff wrote: <This is what is making her case more perplexing. Forgive me if these comments seem a bit ungracious on this person's behalf, but she is a rather rational scientist and generally demands the usual proof and qualifications of anyone offering any treatment, especially if some even fussier medical insurance company is going to be convinced to contribute to possible treatment. > ****Let me just say I agree with both yourself and this lady to a certain extent. However, speaking from my own personal experiences I believe fibromyalgia is very similar to IBS (Irritable bowel syndrome); there is little 'evidence' or so called 'scientific proof' behind the 'diseases' / 'syndromes.' A number of doctors dismiss the disease because they don't know anything about it. 'Well just because a blood test says I'm all right doesn't mean I'm all right.' This can be very demoralising both physically and mentally. I have seen numerous elderly people in huge amounts of pain / suffering / from this type of attitude. For instance just to emphasize this point, I went to see 5 doctors, 4 so called specialists and not one of those could diagnose me!!! I must have tried at least 20 or more medications grounded in so-called hard proof science, yet none of those worked!!! Its about time that doctors understood that their methods are not completely sound - there are a number of diseases which go unrecognised due to these tests. For example, in his " Facts and Fallacies of Fitness " book (p63 and 68) Mel Siff points out the Russian Criticism of Laboratory analysis - in my opinion, the same is true with these so-called gold standard clinical testing methods. Concerning fibromyalgia and IBS there is little if any evidence based practice / few cures / prevention methods. The books which you can buy are often written by individuals who have suffered from the disease. No doubt we could say where is the 'scientific hard proof' behind these methods, yet there is none - so how can one justify the 'books.'? We can't yet sometimes one just has to give them a try and just hope that one of these methods may be able to cure / diminish the effects of the disease. Nevertheless, let's hope science can unfold the mysteries of these diseases. I welcome criticism and debate Carruthers Wakefield UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2002 Report Share Posted March 20, 2002 Dr Siff, regarding this previous post: <My sister has suffered from fibromyalgia for about 16 years now, only diagnosed in the last few years, but is in constant pain and the quality of her life becomes more and more eroded with time. The doctors don't seem...> I have some info and references re: Fibromyalgia, but was wondering if you have an idea what specifically this person was looking for. Research info, exercise guidelines, treatment approaches, practitioners? I'll post what I have, if any of it's pertinent. [That person would be grateful to receive anything which may help. Please go ahead and send us what you have. Many thanks. Mel Siff] Betty Smoot, PT, etc. Sonoma, CA, USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2002 Report Share Posted March 23, 2002 For anyone interested in " fibromyalgia " or other forms of chronic pain I can thoroughly recommend two texts. For an excellent common-language explanation of the causes and treatment of chronic pain, get " Manage Your Pain " by et al. It was written by several of the founding staff at University of Sydney Pain Management Clinic located at Royal North Shore Hospital in Sydney, Australia. For the more academically/clinically inclined, 'The clinical challenge of secondary hyperalgesia' a paper by ML Cohen (1995) in " Moving in on Pain " (published in Adelaide, Australia). This paper goes into some detail in explaining how syndromes like fibromyalgia can be explained in neurophysiological and psychophysical terms. It is interesting to note that most of the letters submitted so far have taken a path following the traditional " medical model " and remain focused on the physical. Current research in pain indicates that the most succesful approach to managing chronic pain is one involving cognitive-behavioural treatment. I believe a recent paper from New Zealand (Otago University I think - sorry, can't recall the details) showed cognitive-behavioural therapy to be more successful than exercise in improving chronic pain. In our Physiotherapy practice we use exercise in combination with a cognitive-behavioural approach in working with rehab patients who show signs of fear-avoidance and perceive themselves to be disabled. My feeling is that a combination of both is likely to be most successful. Regarding the various physical (exercise, stretching, yoga, tai chi,...) approaches to treatment of fibromyalgia my observation is that their success lies not in physical changes (ie tissue or metabolic) but in psycho-emotional changes: shifting towards an internal locus of control, addressing depression with exercise (well established, particularly cardiovascular), reducing feelings of disability and fear of pain. All of these produce positive outcomes for the chronic pain sufferer. It is also interesting to note that many of the respondants report frustration at seeking but not getting a diagnosis or effective help. The reliance on the medical model is such that their locus of control has well and truly shifted externally; and unfortunately well- meaning friends and relatives - and overzealous therapists - often contribute to this by helping too much and showing too much sympathy. Behaviour is shaped by reinforcement: pain behaviour >> sympathy & assitance >> continued pain behaviour. This appears to happen more in some cultures than others. There will be no diagnosis, no pills, no scans, no manual therapy, no answers which will bring relief. This is primarily because their sensitized central nervous system is all that remains of their original damage - the pathology has resolved but the alarm bells are still ringing. (My analogy is this: you're walking down the street and someone taps you on the shoulder - you turn around; you're walking through a haunted house and someone taps you on the shoulder - you go through the roof. The chronic pain sufferer's nervous system is ALWAYS in a haunted house.) It is NOT " all in their heads " - pain is a very real experience which varies with context and meaning. However, managing (and preventing) " fibromyalgia " or many of the other poorly-defined non- cancer pain syndromes begins with reassurance, education and understanding. Chronic pain is an incredibly expensive problem which avoidable through sensitive and thorough assessment by well-informed therapists. I hope the above texts help get the message across. (I'll attempt to post more specific publication details down the track.) Darren Stuchbery BAppSci(Physio),BEd(PhysEd),MAPA -------- Mcsiff@a... wrote: > Someone sent us this letter anonymously: > > <My sister has suffered from fibromyalgia for about 16 years now, only > diagnosed in the last few years, but is in constant pain and the quality of > her life becomes more and more eroded with time. The doctors don't seem to > know that much about it but she has collected a large number of books on the > illness, but to no avail. As a family we feel she needs to look for help > further afield - do any of you know of any expert in the field or could you > put us on to information which could help. I am putting out feelers and > hoping that we will be able to find someone with knowledge, as at this stage > she is so depressed that she feels life hardly worth living. A recent > overseas trip " for relaxation " was obviously too much for her and she has > returned worse than ever.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2002 Report Share Posted August 27, 2002 Ann, Diseases have triggers and we all would agree that Stills definately has its triggers, even if it may be different in different individuals. I for one, have had fibromyalgia for a long time before I ever took my first Prednisone pill. I wonder if it gets worse as you try to get off the steroids? (hmmmmm) ... I hope not. Mine burns all day long now. I don't want worse. Smiles, Caroline annjohn wrote:Withdrawal from medications, especially steroids, can set it off. " Well, a lot of us here know that it is associated with ASOD, but I never thought of it in association with getting off Prednisone!! I will go back to my diary and see for sure, but I think that I first had symptoms of Fibro when I weaned off Pred. the first time. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 I have seen one Chronic Fatigue patient and she definitely has a lot of slow wave activity. I have been using F3 to inhibit 2-5 (she has very little hibeta) and reward Beta. I also have her performing tasks such as naming (to herself) categories of words. Without this stimulation, she barely produces any beta. This protocol makes her more energetic and less likely to need to sleep during the day. Hiatt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Steve, I have seen bursts of slow wave activity, which in many of my clients happen more frequently when pain is higher. I check for clenching or other artifact but many times that is not the issue. I think it may be a dissociative mechanism for reduction of pain, part of the " fibro fog " . I have not trained these freqauencies initially as I do not want to knock away any coping mechanisms before they have others. IF you look over the subjective assessment and the rest of the eeg assessment you may well find other areas to work with as well. With clients such as these I find it especially important to constantly check in with them regarding their ongoing experience during training, At 9:27 AM +0000 2/29/04, Shuel wrote: Listmates, A question for those of you measuring EEG levels, Whether the TLC assess or some other method. Do you typically see large amounts (60-65 % of total) of Low Hz (Delta- Theta ) with fibromyalgia – chronic fatigue patients? I'm new to the TLC evaluation and new to neurofeedback in general...After performing evals on several Of these patients I've been surprised at the level of the lower frequencies showing up. Steve Shuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Steve, I have seen bursts of slow wave activity, which in many of my clients happen more frequently when pain is higher. I check for clenching or other artifact but many times that is not the issue. I think it may be a dissociative mechanism for reduction of pain, part of the " fibro fog " . I have not trained these freqauencies initially as I do not want to knock away any coping mechanisms before they have others. IF you look over the subjective assessment and the rest of the eeg assessment you may well find other areas to work with as well. With clients such as these I find it especially important to constantly check in with them regarding their ongoing experience during training, At 9:27 AM +0000 2/29/04, Shuel wrote: Listmates, A question for those of you measuring EEG levels, Whether the TLC assess or some other method. Do you typically see large amounts (60-65 % of total) of Low Hz (Delta- Theta ) with fibromyalgia – chronic fatigue patients? I'm new to the TLC evaluation and new to neurofeedback in general...After performing evals on several Of these patients I've been surprised at the level of the lower frequencies showing up. Steve Shuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2004 Report Share Posted April 7, 2004 I THINK IT IS CALLED THE ANTI-INFLAMMATORY DIET. WORKS WELL IN MY EXPERIENCE. Dick In a message dated 4/1/04 3:03:08 PM, kimwetzler@... writes: Does anyone have any good handouts or resources on diet/eating for fibromyalgia. I'm leading a Fibro support group and would love any specific dietary recommendations anyone may have based on personal experience with patients such as triggers, etc..  Thanks, Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 In message <BAY21-F1825B7611934E9954F0C2CCFC70@...> you wrote: > > I would liike to know if anyone has any information about KT to help in > fibromyalgia. > I used to suffer from it five years ago and now it's back. Hello Viviana, http://w3.trib.com/~kombu/konnection/Fibromyalgia.html Fibromyalgia This URL might be helpful to you. It makes also enjoyable reading. Hope you will be feeling better soon! Margret:-) -- +---------------------------------------------------------------+ Minstrel@... <)))<>< www.therpc.f9.co.uk <)))<>< +---------------------------------------------------------------+ Carpenter of Nazareth requires joiners ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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