Re: Re: Supplements, was Weight loss and Vitamix

[Guest guest]

Thank you Lynn for your links but I was looking for some information that was more independent. I wouldn't expect a trade organization to say their products in anything outer then in high regards. I am really suspicious of people that want to sell you something because they have the most to gain with giving information that is not necessarily the whole truth. I guess I am looking for something like Consumers Reports that doesn't have an ax to grind one way or the other. Thanks again,tom From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lynn GandySent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:23 PM Subject: Re: Supplements, was Weight loss and Vitamix Tom,One of my favorite websites, and the largest one I know of, is Dr. ph Mercola's site: www.mercola.com. Dr. Mercola's medical certification is a DO (Doctor of Osteopathy, similar to an MD degree), and he has been working in the alternative medicine field (sometimes known as " complementary and alternative medicine " or CAM) for a long time. He is one of the most well-known and respected doctors in the CAM field. His website, which has been in existence since the mid-1990's), contains thousands and thousands of pages of articles, which he offers to the public for free (no subscription is required). His site has a very good search engine (search field at the top of every page). All of his articles contain references to studies conducted all around the world. In fact, many of his articles in recent years are direct responses to studies that he comes across or ones that get a lot of mainstream press attention (some of these studies are deeply flawed, some are only slightly flawed, and some are well designed). He has a comment forum for every article. Some of the readers in the mercola.com discussion forum have criticized the fact that Dr. Mercola sells supplements under his own name. He says that in trying to find effective supplements in years past for his sometimes very sick patients at his clinic (located near Chicago, IL, and open for about 25 years), he often had trouble locating high-quality supplements to recommend to his patients. So, over the years, he and his staff have worked with the best manufacturers they could find to make sure that he could provide high-quality supplements to his patients and readers of his site. I do use some of his supplements, as well as supplements from other sources.So, I recommend that you go to Dr. Mercola's site, and try entering different search strings that return the desired search results. For example, enter " organic foods benefits " or something similar. You can also search his site for specific health conditions.BTW, careful washing of conventionally grown produce does not always reduce the pesticide load. I have read that some plants take up pesticides internally into the plant tissues. Thus, washing the food does not necessarily remove the pesticide threat. Also, more and more conventionally grown food plants are genetically modified organisms (GMO), which are potentially very dangerous to humans, livestock, and the hundreds of thousands of wildlife and plant species on Planet Earth. There are a number of good websites you can visit on this subject, such as the Environmental Working Group's site (www.ewg.org) and the Organic Consumers Association's site (www.organicconsumers.org). To locate sources of organic and local food in your area, go to Local Harvest's site (www.localharvest.org). These three websites are all widely read and well respected.Hope this helps,Lynn G>> Can someone direct me to an independent study that states organic foods are> vastly superior to non organic. I searched " is organic food better for you " > and most of what I read is that organic foods are mostly only marginally> better and pesticides as being the primary benefit but careful washing> reduces much of that threat. > > > > Tom

[Guest guest]

Anything that is penned by Pollan is worth reading http://michaelpollan.com/I particularly like this book of his http://michaelpollan.com/books/food-rules/...also a book called TomatoLand by Barry Estabrook http://www.amazon.com/Tomatoland-Industrial-Agriculture-Destroyed-Alluring/dp/1449401090Then there is the oldie but goodie Diet For a Small PLanet by Frances Lappe'http://www.amazon.com/Diet-Small-Planet-20th-Anniversary/dp/0345321200http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_for_a_Small_PlanetCan you tell I am a book junkie?JaneOn Jan 7, 2012, at 12:29 PM, MO wrote: Tom - there's an excellent documentary called "Food, Inc." that I recommend watching. Very well done. It's been awhile since I watched it, but I believe Pollan, author of The Omnivore's Dilemma and other books is in it. Others have answered very well in regards to other reasons to eat organic. I have read extensive articles on the subject myself. I know there was a consumer reports study done, and they basically concluded that it's worth the expense for everything but the items like bananas that have a very thick peel, or grains. I don't know if they were accounting for genetically engineered ingredients when they did the study, however, or if they were just checking pesticide content. Environne produce wash is sold at Trader Joe's and is supposed to remove a lot of pesticide residue. I agree with others, though, that many items grown outside of the USA using pesticides outlawed here are better avoided. And esp. avoid the gmo/gei items. Corn and soy are the two most prevalent crops in this category. > > > > > > Healthy soil, soil that has not been subjected to "shock and awe" > applications of herbicides and pesticides and burning chemical fertilizers > for years, is host to millions of micro-organisms per cubic foot. And it's > the micro-organisms that process organic material and make the nutrient > materials available for uptake into food crops. That's one of the primary > reasons factory-farmed food crops are impoverished of so much of their > nutritive value: the soil has been sterilized and burned to a crisp. > If you're eating organic, from farms that protect and nourish the living > soil, your produce may be an excellent source of all the nutrition you need. > Otherwise, informed, wise supplementation may be a good idea, depending on > your own unique health profile. And, by the way, cheapo vitamins that are > merely compounds of dead chemicals are pretty much a waste of money and a > waste of good sewer space. Our bodies are NOT machines; they are living > beings and need to be feed living food (and possibly living supplements.) > Neil on the left coast in Calif. > > Supplements, was Weight loss and Vitamix > > There are a couple of reasons I know of for using supplemental products. > > If you are not certain of your foodstuffs and their growers, it is > likely that they were commercially grown. Land used for decades (and > longer) becomes depleted of nutrient content and therefore has no > nutrient to convey to plant material. Generally, so long as the plant > grows well enough to sell a product, this fact is ignored--only if the > plant dies or produces poorly or slowly is money wasted on fertilizers > and other soil amendments are almost never considered in a commercial > situation. Much of our commercially-available food supply is produced > on just such land, therefor is apt to be deficient in many if not all > the good things we think we're getting. The defense on this one is to > either grow your own, organically, so that the soil is cared for/fed, > yielding a healthy soil with nutrient material to make available for > transfer to plant material, or to know well your grower and his/her > practices and reliability. > > The "organic" foods "certified" by the USDA are not even close to what > we've actually known to be organic over the past 50 years or so....if > you are curious about what they consider to be organic and to be organic > practices and growing conditions, go to their website and you will see a > giant disconnect there....the point, rather, seems to have been to > provide a way for agribusiness to cut into the existing (actual) organic > market. If you must purchase foods when you don't know the grower, find > a certification agent that you can trust (takes a fair amount of > research, I know) and then stick with it. The main reason I moved 25 > years ago to where I am now was for the active organic farming and > gardening activity, with an excellent certification program, and I've > never regretted that. > > Other than sick soil, problems that prevent our foodstuffs from being as > nutritious as we'd like to think are pesticides and herbicides, some of > which interfere with the processes by which materials are transferred to > plants, air pollution with some of the same problems, contaminated water > supplies (a growing problem), and the practice of breeding for and > harvesting unripe plant material so that it can withstand the trip to > market while it "ripens". > > As to tablets/capsules not dissolving.....that's another big mixed-up > mess, with some things not even designed to dissolve in the stomach but > in the lower parts of the tract, each of which has it's own digestive > "aids", and any (or all) of which may well be out of kilter due to any > number of digestive/nutrient causes...or other unrelated causes such as > physical (even a hernia can play havoc depending on the location and > degree of/frequency of incarceration) or environmental. So it's all tricky. > > So there are a few of the issues very sketchily outlined. And having > said all that, I reared 3 kiddos and have always maintained myself > without supplements of any kind, including through pregnancies, etc. > But I've been blessed to be able to raise my own food on my own terms. > If I'd not, am not sure what the path should have been....just glad we > didn't have to go there. Each of us has to work it out ourselves. > > SJ, in snowy Maine > > ------------------------------------ > >

[Guest guest]

I can understand all the reasons to go organic, and I slowly am, when I can, I buy from farmers markets ect...  however, when going from a completely bad bad diet (lots of fried foods, fast foods, blah blah) Even the supermarket veggies and fruits are a huge step up for me.  I am easing into it, but using the vitamix whenever I can... for example, we are having a party tonight, and the dinner will be spaghetti and chicken parmasean, I went out early this morning and bought a bushel of tomatoes, and pureed them in the vitamix for the sauce, since they will cook all day I am confident the sauce will be good.. Instead of tomato paste I am using pureed sundried tomatoes.

Using raw tomatoes makes for a light pink sauce originally, but its been on for a couple hours now and is already turning a deep red color.  So I am making a sauce from scratch which is natural, I'm really proud of myself.

Now for the bad part, crusted fried chicken breasts for the chicken parm, and the meatballs will have beef/pork/veal...But I have been really good this week as far as trying to eat well, so I am not feeling any guilt about this....

Have a good day everyone!On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 9:29 AM, MO <olsonmlb@...> wrote:

 

Tom - there's an excellent documentary called " Food, Inc. " that I recommend watching. Very well done. It's been awhile since I watched it, but I believe Pollan, author of The Omnivore's Dilemma and other books is in it. Others have answered very well in regards to other reasons to eat organic. I have read extensive articles on the subject myself. I know there was a consumer reports study done, and they basically concluded that it's worth the expense for everything but the items like bananas that have a very thick peel, or grains. I don't know if they were accounting for genetically engineered ingredients when they did the study, however, or if they were just checking pesticide content. Environne produce wash is sold at Trader Joe's and is supposed to remove a lot of pesticide residue. I agree with others, though, that many items grown outside of the USA using pesticides outlawed here are better avoided. And esp. avoid the gmo/gei items. Corn and soy are the two most prevalent crops in this category.

>

>

>

>

>

> Healthy soil, soil that has not been subjected to " shock and awe "

> applications of herbicides and pesticides and burning chemical fertilizers

> for years, is host to millions of micro-organisms per cubic foot. And it's

> the micro-organisms that process organic material and make the nutrient

> materials available for uptake into food crops. That's one of the primary

> reasons factory-farmed food crops are impoverished of so much of their

> nutritive value: the soil has been sterilized and burned to a crisp.

> If you're eating organic, from farms that protect and nourish the living

> soil, your produce may be an excellent source of all the nutrition you need.

> Otherwise, informed, wise supplementation may be a good idea, depending on

> your own unique health profile. And, by the way, cheapo vitamins that are

> merely compounds of dead chemicals are pretty much a waste of money and a

> waste of good sewer space. Our bodies are NOT machines; they are living

> beings and need to be feed living food (and possibly living supplements.)

> Neil on the left coast in Calif.

>

> Supplements, was Weight loss and Vitamix

>

> There are a couple of reasons I know of for using supplemental products.

>

> If you are not certain of your foodstuffs and their growers, it is

> likely that they were commercially grown. Land used for decades (and

> longer) becomes depleted of nutrient content and therefore has no

> nutrient to convey to plant material. Generally, so long as the plant

> grows well enough to sell a product, this fact is ignored--only if the

> plant dies or produces poorly or slowly is money wasted on fertilizers

> and other soil amendments are almost never considered in a commercial

> situation. Much of our commercially-available food supply is produced

> on just such land, therefor is apt to be deficient in many if not all

> the good things we think we're getting. The defense on this one is to

> either grow your own, organically, so that the soil is cared for/fed,

> yielding a healthy soil with nutrient material to make available for

> transfer to plant material, or to know well your grower and his/her

> practices and reliability.

>

> The " organic " foods " certified " by the USDA are not even close to what

> we've actually known to be organic over the past 50 years or so....if

> you are curious about what they consider to be organic and to be organic

> practices and growing conditions, go to their website and you will see a

> giant disconnect there....the point, rather, seems to have been to

> provide a way for agribusiness to cut into the existing (actual) organic

> market. If you must purchase foods when you don't know the grower, find

> a certification agent that you can trust (takes a fair amount of

> research, I know) and then stick with it. The main reason I moved 25

> years ago to where I am now was for the active organic farming and

> gardening activity, with an excellent certification program, and I've

> never regretted that.

>

> Other than sick soil, problems that prevent our foodstuffs from being as

> nutritious as we'd like to think are pesticides and herbicides, some of

> which interfere with the processes by which materials are transferred to

> plants, air pollution with some of the same problems, contaminated water

> supplies (a growing problem), and the practice of breeding for and

> harvesting unripe plant material so that it can withstand the trip to

> market while it " ripens " .

>

> As to tablets/capsules not dissolving.....that's another big mixed-up

> mess, with some things not even designed to dissolve in the stomach but

> in the lower parts of the tract, each of which has it's own digestive

> " aids " , and any (or all) of which may well be out of kilter due to any

> number of digestive/nutrient causes...or other unrelated causes such as

> physical (even a hernia can play havoc depending on the location and

> degree of/frequency of incarceration) or environmental. So it's all tricky.

>

> So there are a few of the issues very sketchily outlined. And having

> said all that, I reared 3 kiddos and have always maintained myself

> without supplements of any kind, including through pregnancies, etc.

> But I've been blessed to be able to raise my own food on my own terms.

> If I'd not, am not sure what the path should have been....just glad we

> didn't have to go there. Each of us has to work it out ourselves.

>

> SJ, in snowy Maine

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

EXCELLENT Wes!I've been at this "improving my health via diet" game for over four years now. When I started, I started EXACTLY like you are - just added one Green Smoothie per day (with store bought produce) to my diet (and I did give up wheat and sugar at the same time, but my health condition was debilitating).Your post is exactly what I meant when I said (in an earlier post - the last two sentences...)"The ideal source for food would be what we grow in our own gardens, and some list members do that. Next, would be purchasing from neighbors (Farmer's Markets) where you know the growing conditions. Next would be REAL organic produce sold in a store. Next would be commercially labeled organic produce (hopefully different from conventional) and then finally, conventional. I buy from ALL of these sources. I do the best that I can, and I don't stress about it. Remember, a conventional apple is LOADS better for you than a Snicker's Bar or a Cinnamon Roll!!!"GOOD FOR YOU on the home made tomato sauce!We are all on a journey, and this is a great place for sharing information that will help each of us move in whichever direction our journey takes us. I make Whole Fruit Margaritas in my Vitamix once a year, and Milk Shakes for the kids - it isn't always making Green Juice ;-)Blessings,Lea Ann SavageSatellite Beach, FL(321) 773-7088 (home)(321-961-9219 (cell)))><On'>www.VitamixLady.comwww..com<))><On Jan 7, 2012, at 12:48 PM, Wes Thierry wrote:I can understand all the reasons to go organic, and I slowly am, when I can, I buy from farmers markets ect... however, when going from a completely bad bad diet (lots of fried foods, fast foods, blah blah) Even the supermarket veggies and fruits are a huge step up for me. I am easing into it, but using the vitamix whenever I can... for example, we are having a party tonight, and the dinner will be spaghetti and chicken parmasean, I went out early this morning and bought a bushel of tomatoes, and pureed them in the vitamix for the sauce, since they will cook all day I am confident the sauce will be good.. Instead of tomato paste I am using pureed sundried tomatoes.Using raw tomatoes makes for a light pink sauce originally, but its been on for a couple hours now and is already turning a deep red color. So I am making a sauce from scratch which is natural, I'm really proud of myself.Now for the bad part, crusted fried chicken breasts for the chicken parm, and the meatballs will have beef/pork/veal...But I have been really good this week as far as trying to eat well, so I am not feeling any guilt about this....Have a good day everyone!On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 9:29 AM, MO <olsonmlb@...> wrote: Tom - there's an excellent documentary called "Food, Inc." that I recommend watching. Very well done. It's been awhile since I watched it, but I believe Pollan, author of The Omnivore's Dilemma and other books is in it. Others have answered very well in regards to other reasons to eat organic. I have read extensive articles on the subject myself. I know there was a consumer reports study done, and they basically concluded that it's worth the expense for everything but the items like bananas that have a very thick peel, or grains. I don't know if they were accounting for genetically engineered ingredients when they did the study, however, or if they were just checking pesticide content. Environne produce wash is sold at Trader Joe's and is supposed to remove a lot of pesticide residue. I agree with others, though, that many items grown outside of the USA using pesticides outlawed here are better avoided. And esp. avoid the gmo/gei items. Corn and soy are the two most prevalent crops in this category.> > > > > > Healthy soil, soil that has not been subjected to "shock and awe"> applications of herbicides and pesticides and burning chemical fertilizers> for years, is host to millions of micro-organisms per cubic foot. And it's> the micro-organisms that process organic material and make the nutrient> materials available for uptake into food crops. That's one of the primary> reasons factory-farmed food crops are impoverished of so much of their> nutritive value: the soil has been sterilized and burned to a crisp.> If you're eating organic, from farms that protect and nourish the living> soil, your produce may be an excellent source of all the nutrition you need.> Otherwise, informed, wise supplementation may be a good idea, depending on> your own unique health profile. And, by the way, cheapo vitamins that are> merely compounds of dead chemicals are pretty much a waste of money and a> waste of good sewer space. Our bodies are NOT machines; they are living> beings and need to be feed living food (and possibly living supplements.)> Neil on the left coast in Calif.> > Supplements, was Weight loss and Vitamix> > There are a couple of reasons I know of for using supplemental products.> > If you are not certain of your foodstuffs and their growers, it is > likely that they were commercially grown. Land used for decades (and > longer) becomes depleted of nutrient content and therefore has no > nutrient to convey to plant material. Generally, so long as the plant > grows well enough to sell a product, this fact is ignored--only if the > plant dies or produces poorly or slowly is money wasted on fertilizers > and other soil amendments are almost never considered in a commercial > situation. Much of our commercially-available food supply is produced > on just such land, therefor is apt to be deficient in many if not all > the good things we think we're getting. The defense on this one is to > either grow your own, organically, so that the soil is cared for/fed, > yielding a healthy soil with nutrient material to make available for > transfer to plant material, or to know well your grower and his/her > practices and reliability.> > The "organic" foods "certified" by the USDA are not even close to what > we've actually known to be organic over the past 50 years or so....if > you are curious about what they consider to be organic and to be organic > practices and growing conditions, go to their website and you will see a > giant disconnect there....the point, rather, seems to have been to > provide a way for agribusiness to cut into the existing (actual) organic > market. If you must purchase foods when you don't know the grower, find > a certification agent that you can trust (takes a fair amount of > research, I know) and then stick with it. The main reason I moved 25 > years ago to where I am now was for the active organic farming and > gardening activity, with an excellent certification program, and I've > never regretted that.> > Other than sick soil, problems that prevent our foodstuffs from being as > nutritious as we'd like to think are pesticides and herbicides, some of > which interfere with the processes by which materials are transferred to > plants, air pollution with some of the same problems, contaminated water > supplies (a growing problem), and the practice of breeding for and > harvesting unripe plant material so that it can withstand the trip to > market while it "ripens".> > As to tablets/capsules not dissolving.....that's another big mixed-up > mess, with some things not even designed to dissolve in the stomach but > in the lower parts of the tract, each of which has it's own digestive > "aids", and any (or all) of which may well be out of kilter due to any > number of digestive/nutrient causes...or other unrelated causes such as > physical (even a hernia can play havoc depending on the location and > degree of/frequency of incarceration) or environmental. So it's all tricky.> > So there are a few of the issues very sketchily outlined. And having > said all that, I reared 3 kiddos and have always maintained myself > without supplements of any kind, including through pregnancies, etc. > But I've been blessed to be able to raise my own food on my own terms. > If I'd not, am not sure what the path should have been....just glad we > didn't have to go there. Each of us has to work it out ourselves.> > SJ, in snowy Maine> > ------------------------------------> >

[Guest guest]

Mo I should say first off I am in no way opposed to organic foods, in fact I believe they better than for other non organic foods but are they that much better to support the 50% to 100% you pay more for them? In my opinion there is not enough evidence there is. Again this is my opinion and if yours differs that is fine with me. When I searched " is organic food better for you " in Google these are the first 6 hits.http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/organic-food-betterhttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/weekinreview/22bittman.htmlhttp://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=52420http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2687094 & page=1http://www.science20.com/news_articles/organic_food_better_you_conventionally_produced_foodhttp://www.mayoclinic.com/health/organic-food/NU00255/NSECTIONGROUP=2 I would consider Webmd.com, Medicinenet.com and Mayoclinic.com to be unbiased and the news articles sort of confirm those three articles. I have no clue what sience20.com is but it was a part of that first group. There have been posters on this subject that claim their health has vastly improved by eating organic food and that's great to me. I am not trying to push my opinions off on others but rather I am trying to see if I was missing something in my research because finding unbiased information can be challenging. Tom From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of MOSent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 12:30 PM Subject: Re: Supplements, was Weight loss and Vitamix Tom - there's an excellent documentary called " Food, Inc. " that I recommend watching. Very well done. It's been awhile since I watched it, but I believe Pollan, author of The Omnivore's Dilemma and other books is in it. Others have answered very well in regards to other reasons to eat organic. I have read extensive articles on the subject myself. I know there was a consumer reports study done, and they basically concluded that it's worth the expense for everything but the items like bananas that have a very thick peel, or grains. I don't know if they were accounting for genetically engineered ingredients when they did the study, however, or if they were just checking pesticide content. Environne produce wash is sold at Trader Joe's and is supposed to remove a lot of pesticide residue. I agree with others, though, that many items grown outside of the USA using pesticides outlawed here are better avoided. And esp. avoid the gmo/gei items. Corn and soy are the two most prevalent crops in this category.> > > > > > Healthy soil, soil that has not been subjected to " shock and awe " > applications of herbicides and pesticides and burning chemical fertilizers> for years, is host to millions of micro-organisms per cubic foot. And it's> the micro-organisms that process organic material and make the nutrient> materials available for uptake into food crops. That's one of the primary> reasons factory-farmed food crops are impoverished of so much of their> nutritive value: the soil has been sterilized and burned to a crisp.> If you're eating organic, from farms that protect and nourish the living> soil, your produce may be an excellent source of all the nutrition you need.> Otherwise, informed, wise supplementation may be a good idea, depending on> your own unique health profile. And, by the way, cheapo vitamins that are> merely compounds of dead chemicals are pretty much a waste of money and a> waste of good sewer space. Our bodies are NOT machines; they are living> beings and need to be feed living food (and possibly living supplements.)> Neil on the left coast in Calif.> > Supplements, was Weight loss and Vitamix> > There are a couple of reasons I know of for using supplemental products.> > If you are not certain of your foodstuffs and their growers, it is > likely that they were commercially grown. Land used for decades (and > longer) becomes depleted of nutrient content and therefore has no > nutrient to convey to plant material. Generally, so long as the plant > grows well enough to sell a product, this fact is ignored--only if the > plant dies or produces poorly or slowly is money wasted on fertilizers > and other soil amendments are almost never considered in a commercial > situation. Much of our commercially-available food supply is produced > on just such land, therefor is apt to be deficient in many if not all > the good things we think we're getting. The defense on this one is to > either grow your own, organically, so that the soil is cared for/fed, > yielding a healthy soil with nutrient material to make available for > transfer to plant material, or to know well your grower and his/her > practices and reliability.> > The " organic " foods " certified " by the USDA are not even close to what > we've actually known to be organic over the past 50 years or so....if > you are curious about what they consider to be organic and to be organic > practices and growing conditions, go to their website and you will see a > giant disconnect there....the point, rather, seems to have been to > provide a way for agribusiness to cut into the existing (actual) organic > market. If you must purchase foods when you don't know the grower, find > a certification agent that you can trust (takes a fair amount of > research, I know) and then stick with it. The main reason I moved 25 > years ago to where I am now was for the active organic farming and > gardening activity, with an excellent certification program, and I've > never regretted that.> > Other than sick soil, problems that prevent our foodstuffs from being as > nutritious as we'd like to think are pesticides and herbicides, some of > which interfere with the processes by which materials are transferred to > plants, air pollution with some of the same problems, contaminated water > supplies (a growing problem), and the practice of breeding for and > harvesting unripe plant material so that it can withstand the trip to > market while it " ripens " .> > As to tablets/capsules not dissolving.....that's another big mixed-up > mess, with some things not even designed to dissolve in the stomach but > in the lower parts of the tract, each of which has it's own digestive > " aids " , and any (or all) of which may well be out of kilter due to any > number of digestive/nutrient causes...or other unrelated causes such as > physical (even a hernia can play havoc depending on the location and > degree of/frequency of incarceration) or environmental. So it's all tricky.> > So there are a few of the issues very sketchily outlined. And having > said all that, I reared 3 kiddos and have always maintained myself > without supplements of any kind, including through pregnancies, etc. > But I've been blessed to be able to raise my own food on my own terms. > If I'd not, am not sure what the path should have been....just glad we > didn't have to go there. Each of us has to work it out ourselves.> > SJ, in snowy Maine> > ------------------------------------> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the link to your coop. It is very interesting and has a ton of recipes. I like that. I was stationed in So Cal myself at AFB, in the desert, but I believe it has been closed. Tom From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Beth ESent: Monday, January 09, 2012 12:09 PM Subject: Re: Supplements, was Weight loss and Vitamix Hi Tom! I've been a part of an organic produce coop in So Cal on and off (as the Air Force has brought us here and moved us away several times) for the last 6 years and the biggest difference I can see right away is the quality of the produce and the TASTE! lol! I personally find comfort in knowing the farmer who grows my food (Vern and a few farmers he carefully selects and contracts with) and having accountability there. Eating local & organic also means that my family eats a highly varied diet of seasonal veg, rather than the same technically/artificially or internationally grown produce year around. Variety is undeniably healthier. Being a part of a coop means that it is more affordable than organic produce in grocery stores.You can link to my coop here:http://www.abundantharvestorganics.com/When we're not in So Cal and I can only get organics at the grocery store, I totally agree with you. The quality is dismal, I am unconvinced that it is truly 'organic' and the price is ridiculous.There is very reliable data that organics are superior for the environment, as use of pesticides over the last years has been detrimental to many species...That matters to me, but I know it might not matter to everyone.Have a great day! Beth> > > > > > > > > > > > Healthy soil, soil that has not been subjected to " shock and awe " > > applications of herbicides and pesticides and burning chemical fertilizers> > for years, is host to millions of micro-organisms per cubic foot. And it's> > the micro-organisms that process organic material and make the nutrient> > materials available for uptake into food crops. That's one of the primary> > reasons factory-farmed food crops are impoverished of so much of their> > nutritive value: the soil has been sterilized and burned to a crisp.> > If you're eating organic, from farms that protect and nourish the living> > soil, your produce may be an excellent source of all the nutrition you> need.> > Otherwise, informed, wise supplementation may be a good idea, depending on> > your own unique health profile. And, by the way, cheapo vitamins that are> > merely compounds of dead chemicals are pretty much a waste of money and a> > waste of good sewer space. Our bodies are NOT machines; they are living> > beings and need to be feed living food (and possibly living supplements.)> > Neil on the left coast in Calif.> > > > Supplements, was Weight loss and Vitamix> > > > There are a couple of reasons I know of for using supplemental products.> > > > If you are not certain of your foodstuffs and their growers, it is > > likely that they were commercially grown. Land used for decades (and > > longer) becomes depleted of nutrient content and therefore has no > > nutrient to convey to plant material. Generally, so long as the plant > > grows well enough to sell a product, this fact is ignored--only if the > > plant dies or produces poorly or slowly is money wasted on fertilizers > > and other soil amendments are almost never considered in a commercial > > situation. Much of our commercially-available food supply is produced > > on just such land, therefor is apt to be deficient in many if not all > > the good things we think we're getting. The defense on this one is to > > either grow your own, organically, so that the soil is cared for/fed, > > yielding a healthy soil with nutrient material to make available for > > transfer to plant material, or to know well your grower and his/her > > practices and reliability.> > > > The " organic " foods " certified " by the USDA are not even close to what > > we've actually known to be organic over the past 50 years or so....if > > you are curious about what they consider to be organic and to be organic > > practices and growing conditions, go to their website and you will see a > > giant disconnect there....the point, rather, seems to have been to > > provide a way for agribusiness to cut into the existing (actual) organic > > market. If you must purchase foods when you don't know the grower, find > > a certification agent that you can trust (takes a fair amount of > > research, I know) and then stick with it. The main reason I moved 25 > > years ago to where I am now was for the active organic farming and > > gardening activity, with an excellent certification program, and I've > > never regretted that.> > > > Other than sick soil, problems that prevent our foodstuffs from being as > > nutritious as we'd like to think are pesticides and herbicides, some of > > which interfere with the processes by which materials are transferred to > > plants, air pollution with some of the same problems, contaminated water > > supplies (a growing problem), and the practice of breeding for and > > harvesting unripe plant material so that it can withstand the trip to > > market while it " ripens " .> > > > As to tablets/capsules not dissolving.....that's another big mixed-up > > mess, with some things not even designed to dissolve in the stomach but > > in the lower parts of the tract, each of which has it's own digestive > > " aids " , and any (or all) of which may well be out of kilter due to any > > number of digestive/nutrient causes...or other unrelated causes such as > > physical (even a hernia can play havoc depending on the location and > > degree of/frequency of incarceration) or environmental. So it's all> tricky.> > > > So there are a few of the issues very sketchily outlined. And having > > said all that, I reared 3 kiddos and have always maintained myself > > without supplements of any kind, including through pregnancies, etc. > > But I've been blessed to be able to raise my own food on my own terms. > > If I'd not, am not sure what the path should have been....just glad we > > didn't have to go there. Each of us has to work it out ourselves.> > > > SJ, in snowy Maine> > > > ------------------------------------> > > >

[Guest guest]

Your note brings a question. I know you grow your own food, how do you

protect your plants from cross contamination from gmo that may be in

area. I mean birds can fly a distance, as can bees. I am just curious

how one would do that protection.

thanks for any thoughts

Velda

On 1/10/2012 5:30 AM, wrote:

> The thing to keep in mind if you tend to go by the numbers on produce, is that

if a product was grown on a farm near a GMO crop, it HAS been cross contaminated

with GMO pollens-bees and birds don't discriminate in what they land on, sadly.

Also, GMO seeds are allowed to be labeled as organically GROWN, although the

seed may not be organic and is indeed GMO, so if this of a concern to you (it

is huge for me, due to my allergies) then you need to be more vigilant and find

a local grower...or grow your own.

>

>

>

>

>

>>>> I had the same questions as Tom and did a ton of research a few years ago.

>>>> Best I can remember, there are significant benefits to eating organic.

>>>> However, you don't have to buy all organics. Some fruits have thicker skins

>>>> and therefore the pesticides have minimal, if any, effect. I did find a

>>>> list of the " dirty dozen, " which are those fruits and veggies that you

>>>> should always buy organic. Here's the list:

>>>>

>>>> *Veggies

>>>>

>>>> *celery

>>>> spinach

>>>> potatoes (don't have to peel them)

>>>> bell peppers

>>>>

>>>> *Fruits*

>>>>

>>>> imported grapes

>>>> peaches

>>>> strawberries

>>>> apples

>>>> nectarines

>>>> pears

>>>> cherries

>>>> raspberries

>>>>

>>>> I've pretty much memorized this list and it has saved me money b/c I skip

>>>> over the organic bananas and other fruits and veggies that I don't have to

>>>> buy organic.

>>>>

>>>> When I do buy conventional, I rinse my produce off with a mixture of water

>>>> and apple cider vinegar.

>>>>

>>>> And, don't know if you know, but it's a good idea to check the labels on

>>>> your produce. Produce with a 5 digit number beginning with an " 8 " is GMO

>>>> and should be avoided at all times. A 5 digit number beginning with a " 9 "

>>>> is organic and if it begins with a " 4 " it is conventional.

>>>>

>>>> Hope this helps!

>>>>

>>>> Verria

>>>>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

LOL, with mash, of course!Sent from my iPadOn Jan 10, 2012, at 2:46 PM, "drunkendebbieninjamaster" <drunkendebbieninjamaster@...> wrote:

That's definitely true in the south of England however in the north east, if it ain't pie, people don't care lol (I do!). I'll have to look into the health food store, honestly I don't even know of any!

Debbie

> > > >

> > > > I had the same questions as Tom and did a ton of research a few years ago.

> > > > Best I can remember, there are significant benefits to eating organic.

> > > > However, you don't have to buy all organics. Some fruits have thicker skins

> > > > and therefore the pesticides have minimal, if any, effect. I did find a

> > > > list of the "dirty dozen," which are those fruits and veggies that you

> > > > should always buy organic. Here's the list:

> > > >

> > > > *Veggies

> > > >

> > > > *celery

> > > > spinach

> > > > potatoes (don't have to peel them)

> > > > bell peppers

> > > >

> > > > *Fruits*

> > > >

> > > > imported grapes

> > > > peaches

> > > > strawberries

> > > > apples

> > > > nectarines

> > > > pears

> > > > cherries

> > > > raspberries

> > > >

> > > > I've pretty much memorized this list and it has saved me money b/c I skip

> > > > over the organic bananas and other fruits and veggies that I don't have to

> > > > buy organic.

> > > >

> > > > When I do buy conventional, I rinse my produce off with a mixture of water

> > > > and apple cider vinegar.

> > > >

> > > > And, don't know if you know, but it's a good idea to check the labels on

> > > > your produce. Produce with a 5 digit number beginning with an "8" is GMO

> > > > and should be avoided at all times. A 5 digit number beginning with a "9"

> > > > is organic and if it begins with a "4" it is conventional.

> > > >

> > > > Hope this helps!

> > > >

> > > > Verria

> > > >

> > >

> >

>