Re: excellent reading and math programs

[Guest guest]

Hi, Amy P,

I seem to remember that some kids whose parents are on the list are using

at school—you mentioned some research counter indicating kids with ds using

“rigid rule based†programs like —can you direct to the source/

research itself?

Inquiring minds always…

Judi

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

amyp98@...

Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 2:38 PM

Subject: excellent reading and math programs

Hi there. Some of you may remember that I posted something before, asking about

any good reading or math programs. We have a fabulous high school inclusion

teacher, who is God's reward to me for not killing anyone in middle school, and

she has come up with a great math computer program, and we also finally took my

SIL the ed expert's advice on a reading program, which was the best thing we've

ever done for reading. So I wanted to share them with you, in case they can

help someone else.

Re: math, ever since elementary school, I have been pushing the school to teach

his math tables, with poor results. For the most part, the took the

position that he could use a calculator and so why did he need to memorize math

tables? (to which I of course replied by asking them the same question about

their own children), and when I insisted, they put little effort into it, with

the result that the highest he ever got was mastering 0'1, 1's and 2's and

working on the 3's tables, and that was when I was working with him myself over

the summer one year in elementary school; when he got back to school and it

became their responsibility, he backslid to the point he didn't even have his

2's memorized. It was the source of much frustration. So anyway, his high

school teacher found this computer program called FASTT Math. In one school

year, he memorized addition tables 0-9, and polished off 10-12 over the summer.

It takes a baseline, uses repetition and games, and measures the time it takes

him to answer so it knows whether he's answering from memory or just counting on

his fingers (I think TouchMath is much more complicated than simply using

fingers, so we just used fingers up until then), it categorizes into study facts

and focus facts, so that they are working on a specific set of numbers at a

time, although it still throws in other problems occasionally so they don't

forget what they've already learned. I can't say enough good things about it.

They don't use it at school (although school purchased it : )- it is part of

what we do nightly for homework, but it only takes a few minutes and likes

it because the second half of it is always a game of his choosing. It also has

subtraction, multiplication and division. He does it by himself, without any

need of my assistance.

Re: reading, the computer program we use is also a supplement that we use

strictly for homework (also school-purchased), as they work on another program

during the school day. The program we use at home is Read Naturally, which is

not specific to kids with disabilities, but because it starts at whatever level

your child is on, from kindergarten (level 0) on up, it will be work appropriate

for your child. started out at upper first grade at the beginning of last

school year, and by the end of the school year- both according to the Read

Naturally testing, and standardized testing- he was reading at the upper third

grade level- 2 years of progress in a year! He is now working on the lower

fifth grade level. Read Naturally works not only on speed, but also

comprehension and fluency, as it has a quiz and short retell at the end of the

short stories, and has a read-along section. The stories are high interest-

things like PT Barnum and Bigfoot and giant squid, as well as historical figures

like Lincoln and Amelia Earhart and Billie King. He does it for the most

part by himself, although on the 1 minute timed sections, I move the cursor for

him (just because otherwise, it slows him down, and cursor-moving is not a

reading skill). I used to sit with him during the quiz part and help prompt

him, but I decided that made him rely too much on me, so usually I walk away

while he does that, and only assist if he seems to be getting stuck on

something, by pointing out a section for him to re-read.

During the day, they use a program based on the Vanderbilt PALS (Peer Assisted

Learning System) reading program (you can find info on it at the Vanderbilt

site, or just google it). The Vanderbilt program is very cheap to purchase. It

is not a computer program but rather print materials, and it covers the Big Five

for reading- I can't remember what all the 5 are, but I know it includes sight

words, phonetics (recent testing has disproved the long-held theory that kids

with DS can't learn phonetically- just don't try using a rigid rule-based system

like to teach it), fluency, comprehension, and ??? something else that

has to do with sounds. The teacher or aide, rather than a peer, does it with

him, although it COULD be implemented by a peer with training.

Anyway, I hope this helps some other folks!

Amy Petulla

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

Has anyone had any type of experience with a reading program called edmark? My

grandson is in second grade and this is what they are using for him. I don't see

much difference in his abilities, so far.

Thank you...Becky Moreno

excellent reading and math programs

Hi there. Some of you may remember that I posted something before, asking

about any good reading or math programs. We have a fabulous high school

inclusion teacher, who is God's reward to me for not killing anyone in middle

school, and she has come up with a great math computer program, and we also

finally took my SIL the ed expert's advice on a reading program, which was the

best thing we've ever done for reading. So I wanted to share them with you, in

case they can help someone else.

Re: math, ever since elementary school, I have been pushing the school to

teach his math tables, with poor results. For the most part, the took the

position that he could use a calculator and so why did he need to memorize math

tables? (to which I of course replied by asking them the same question about

their own children), and when I insisted, they put little effort into it, with

the result that the highest he ever got was mastering 0'1, 1's and 2's and

working on the 3's tables, and that was when I was working with him myself over

the summer one year in elementary school; when he got back to school and it

became their responsibility, he backslid to the point he didn't even have his

2's memorized. It was the source of much frustration. So anyway, his high

school teacher found this computer program called FASTT Math. In one school

year, he memorized addition tables 0-9, and polished off 10-12 over the summer.

It takes a baseline, uses repetition and games, and measures the time it takes

him to answer so it knows whether he's answering from memory or just counting on

his fingers (I think TouchMath is much more complicated than simply using

fingers, so we just used fingers up until then), it categorizes into study facts

and focus facts, so that they are working on a specific set of numbers at a

time, although it still throws in other problems occasionally so they don't

forget what they've already learned. I can't say enough good things about it.

They don't use it at school (although school purchased it : )- it is part of

what we do nightly for homework, but it only takes a few minutes and likes

it because the second half of it is always a game of his choosing. It also has

subtraction, multiplication and division. He does it by himself, without any

need of my assistance.

Re: reading, the computer program we use is also a supplement that we use

strictly for homework (also school-purchased), as they work on another program

during the school day. The program we use at home is Read Naturally, which is

not specific to kids with disabilities, but because it starts at whatever level

your child is on, from kindergarten (level 0) on up, it will be work appropriate

for your child. started out at upper first grade at the beginning of last

school year, and by the end of the school year- both according to the Read

Naturally testing, and standardized testing- he was reading at the upper third

grade level- 2 years of progress in a year! He is now working on the lower

fifth grade level. Read Naturally works not only on speed, but also

comprehension and fluency, as it has a quiz and short retell at the end of the

short stories, and has a read-along section. The stories are high interest-

things like PT Barnum and Bigfoot and giant squid, as well as historical figures

like Lincoln and Amelia Earhart and Billie King. He does it for the most

part by himself, although on the 1 minute timed sections, I move the cursor for

him (just because otherwise, it slows him down, and cursor-moving is not a

reading skill). I used to sit with him during the quiz part and help prompt

him, but I decided that made him rely too much on me, so usually I walk away

while he does that, and only assist if he seems to be getting stuck on

something, by pointing out a section for him to re-read.

During the day, they use a program based on the Vanderbilt PALS (Peer Assisted

Learning System) reading program (you can find info on it at the Vanderbilt

site, or just google it). The Vanderbilt program is very cheap to purchase. It

is not a computer program but rather print materials, and it covers the Big Five

for reading- I can't remember what all the 5 are, but I know it includes sight

words, phonetics (recent testing has disproved the long-held theory that kids

with DS can't learn phonetically- just don't try using a rigid rule-based system

like to teach it), fluency, comprehension, and ??? something else that

has to do with sounds. The teacher or aide, rather than a peer, does it with

him, although it COULD be implemented by a peer with training.

Anyway, I hope this helps some other folks!

Amy Petulla

[Guest guest]

Get Orton-Gillingham! The sooner, the better. Whatever it takes, get that

program. That, plus “Read Naturally,†have been huge bonuses for my

daughter. The educational specialist at the DS clinic at Children’s Cincinnati

said she has never seen a better program for kids with ds (and other kids too)

than O-G. I now teach it to all grade levels, ages, and developmental needs. I

became a Reading Interventionist this year at one of our local elementary

schools. I think Edmark is good and has merit, but I believe O-G is better. One

other thought for you, my experience has been that children w ds seem to go

along not making much progress…not much progress…not much progress…and

then! A huge leap happens! So don’t give up! Is your child in an included

classroom? I believe that helps too – to be surrounded by age appropriate

peers who are modeling good reading…it’s good for everyone.

Good luck.

Eleanor Green

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

Moreno

Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:40 PM

; amyp98@...

Subject: Re: excellent reading and math programs

Hi all,

Has anyone had any type of experience with a reading program called edmark? My

grandson is in second grade and this is what they are using for him. I don't see

much difference in his abilities, so far.

Thank you...Becky Moreno

excellent reading and math programs

Hi there. Some of you may remember that I posted something before, asking about

any good reading or math programs. We have a fabulous high school inclusion

teacher, who is God's reward to me for not killing anyone in middle school, and

she has come up with a great math computer program, and we also finally took my

SIL the ed expert's advice on a reading program, which was the best thing we've

ever done for reading. So I wanted to share them with you, in case they can help

someone else.

Re: math, ever since elementary school, I have been pushing the school to teach

his math tables, with poor results. For the most part, the took the

position that he could use a calculator and so why did he need to memorize math

tables? (to which I of course replied by asking them the same question about

their own children), and when I insisted, they put little effort into it, with

the result that the highest he ever got was mastering 0'1, 1's and 2's and

working on the 3's tables, and that was when I was working with him myself over

the summer one year in elementary school; when he got back to school and it

became their responsibility, he backslid to the point he didn't even have his

2's memorized. It was the source of much frustration. So anyway, his high school

teacher found this computer program called FASTT Math. In one school year, he

memorized addition tables 0-9, and polished off 10-12 over the summer. It takes

a baseline, uses repetition and games, and measures the time it takes him to

answer so it knows whether he's answering from memory or just counting on his

fingers (I think TouchMath is much more complicated than simply using fingers,

so we just used fingers up until then), it categorizes into study facts and

focus facts, so that they are working on a specific set of numbers at a time,

although it still throws in other problems occasionally so they don't forget

what they've already learned. I can't say enough good things about it. They

don't use it at school (although school purchased it : )- it is part of what we

do nightly for homework, but it only takes a few minutes and likes it

because the second half of it is always a game of his choosing. It also has

subtraction, multiplication and division. He does it by himself, without any

need of my assistance.

Re: reading, the computer program we use is also a supplement that we use

strictly for homework (also school-purchased), as they work on another program

during the school day. The program we use at home is Read Naturally, which is

not specific to kids with disabilities, but because it starts at whatever level

your child is on, from kindergarten (level 0) on up, it will be work appropriate

for your child. started out at upper first grade at the beginning of last

school year, and by the end of the school year- both according to the Read

Naturally testing, and standardized testing- he was reading at the upper third

grade level- 2 years of progress in a year! He is now working on the lower fifth

grade level. Read Naturally works not only on speed, but also comprehension and

fluency, as it has a quiz and short retell at the end of the short stories, and

has a read-along section. The stories are high interest- things like PT Barnum

and Bigfoot and giant squid, as well as historical figures like Lincoln and

Amelia Earhart and Billie King. He does it for the most part by himself,

although on the 1 minute timed sections, I move the cursor for him (just because

otherwise, it slows him down, and cursor-moving is not a reading skill). I used

to sit with him during the quiz part and help prompt him, but I decided that

made him rely too much on me, so usually I walk away while he does that, and

only assist if he seems to be getting stuck on something, by pointing out a

section for him to re-read.

During the day, they use a program based on the Vanderbilt PALS (Peer Assisted

Learning System) reading program (you can find info on it at the Vanderbilt

site, or just google it). The Vanderbilt program is very cheap to purchase. It

is not a computer program but rather print materials, and it covers the Big Five

for reading- I can't remember what all the 5 are, but I know it includes sight

words, phonetics (recent testing has disproved the long-held theory that kids

with DS can't learn phonetically- just don't try using a rigid rule-based system

like to teach it), fluency, comprehension, and ??? something else that

has to do with sounds. The teacher or aide, rather than a peer, does it with

him, although it COULD be implemented by a peer with training.

Anyway, I hope this helps some other folks!

Amy Petulla

[Guest guest]

Yes my son has been using Edmark.  This is his third year.  He is nine. He

started off slowly but this year he is reading sentences.  I had a neuro psych

done on him this year by a very good neuro psych in a center of excellence

devoted to children with autism and developmental disabilities.  He said the

Edmark program is very good.  I am very excited about the progress I am seeing

this year. They have been using the fundations program also which teaches

phonetics.  I also have been using the headsprout program myself on line.  I

am happy with Edmark.  I know there are others on here whose kids have used it

and you will hear from them.  Hope this helps.

 

Loree

Re: excellent reading and math programs

  Hi all,

Has anyone had any type of experience with a reading program called edmark? My

grandson is in second grade and this is what they are using for him. I don't see

much difference in his abilities, so far.

Thank you...Becky Moreno

excellent reading and math programs

Hi there. Some of you may remember that I posted something before, asking about

any good reading or math programs. We have a fabulous high school inclusion

teacher, who is God's reward to me for not killing anyone in middle school, and

she has come up with a great math computer program, and we also finally took my

SIL the ed expert's advice on a reading program, which was the best thing we've

ever done for reading. So I wanted to share them with you, in case they can help

someone else.

Re: math, ever since elementary school, I have been pushing the school to teach

his math tables, with poor results. For the most part, the took the

position that he could use a calculator and so why did he need to memorize math

tables? (to which I of course replied by asking them the same question about

their own children), and when I insisted, they put little effort into it, with

the result that the highest he ever got was mastering 0'1, 1's and 2's and

working on the 3's tables, and that was when I was working with him myself over

the summer one year in elementary school; when he got back to school and it

became their responsibility, he backslid to the point he didn't even have his

2's memorized. It was the source of much frustration. So anyway, his high school

teacher found this computer program called FASTT Math. In one school year, he

memorized addition tables 0-9, and polished off 10-12 over the summer. It takes

a baseline, uses repetition and games, and measures the time it takes him to

answer so it knows whether he's answering from memory or just counting on his

fingers (I think TouchMath is much more complicated than simply using fingers,

so we just used fingers up until then), it categorizes into study facts and

focus facts, so that they are working on a specific set of numbers at a time,

although it still throws in other problems occasionally so they don't forget

what they've already learned. I can't say enough good things about it. They

don't use it at school (although school purchased it : )- it is part of what we

do nightly for homework, but it only takes a few minutes and likes it

because the second half of it is always a game of his choosing. It also has

subtraction, multiplication and division. He does it by himself, without any

need of my assistance.

Re: reading, the computer program we use is also a supplement that we use

strictly for homework (also school-purchased), as they work on another program

during the school day. The program we use at home is Read Naturally, which is

not specific to kids with disabilities, but because it starts at whatever level

your child is on, from kindergarten (level 0) on up, it will be work appropriate

for your child. started out at upper first grade at the beginning of last

school year, and by the end of the school year- both according to the Read

Naturally testing, and standardized testing- he was reading at the upper third

grade level- 2 years of progress in a year! He is now working on the lower fifth

grade level. Read Naturally works not only on speed, but also comprehension and

fluency, as it has a quiz and short retell at the end of the short stories, and

has a read-along section. The stories are high interest- things like PT Barnum

and Bigfoot and giant squid, as well as historical figures like Lincoln and

Amelia Earhart and Billie King. He does it for the most part by himself,

although on the 1 minute timed sections, I move the cursor for him (just because

otherwise, it slows him down, and cursor-moving is not a reading skill). I used

to sit with him during the quiz part and help prompt him, but I decided that

made him rely too much on me, so usually I walk away while he does that, and

only assist if he seems to be getting stuck on something, by pointing out a

section for him to re-read.

During the day, they use a program based on the Vanderbilt PALS (Peer Assisted

Learning System) reading program (you can find info on it at the Vanderbilt

site, or just google it). The Vanderbilt program is very cheap to purchase. It

is not a computer program but rather print materials, and it covers the Big Five

for reading- I can't remember what all the 5 are, but I know it includes sight

words, phonetics (recent testing has disproved the long-held theory that kids

with DS can't learn phonetically- just don't try using a rigid rule-based system

like to teach it), fluency, comprehension, and ??? something else that

has to do with sounds. The teacher or aide, rather than a peer, does it with

him, although it COULD be implemented by a peer with training.

Anyway, I hope this helps some other folks!

Amy Petulla

[Guest guest]

Edmark used to be the standard for teaching “functional†(sight) reading in

sped. It doesn’t address phonics instruction, so the kids do not learn to

decode, just to recognize a menu of sight words. It probably isn’t a bad thing

to use in conjunction with beginning a phonics program, but historically it

becomes the only reading program educators think about.

Judi

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

Moreno

Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:40 PM

; amyp98@...

Subject: Re: excellent reading and math programs

Hi all,

Has anyone had any type of experience with a reading program called edmark? My

grandson is in second grade and this is what they are using for him. I don't see

much difference in his abilities, so far.

Thank you...Becky Moreno

excellent reading and math programs

Hi there. Some of you may remember that I posted something before, asking about

any good reading or math programs. We have a fabulous high school inclusion

teacher, who is God's reward to me for not killing anyone in middle school, and

she has come up with a great math computer program, and we also finally took my

SIL the ed expert's advice on a reading program, which was the best thing we've

ever done for reading. So I wanted to share them with you, in case they can help

someone else.

Re: math, ever since elementary school, I have been pushing the school to teach

his math tables, with poor results. For the most part, the took the

position that he could use a calculator and so why did he need to memorize math

tables? (to which I of course replied by asking them the same question about

their own children), and when I insisted, they put little effort into it, with

the result that the highest he ever got was mastering 0'1, 1's and 2's and

working on the 3's tables, and that was when I was working with him myself over

the summer one year in elementary school; when he got back to school and it

became their responsibility, he backslid to the point he didn't even have his

2's memorized. It was the source of much frustration. So anyway, his high school

teacher found this computer program called FASTT Math. In one school year, he

memorized addition tables 0-9, and polished off 10-12 over the summer. It takes

a baseline, uses repetition and games, and measures the time it takes him to

answer so it knows whether he's answering from memory or just counting on his

fingers (I think TouchMath is much more complicated than simply using fingers,

so we just used fingers up until then), it categorizes into study facts and

focus facts, so that they are working on a specific set of numbers at a time,

although it still throws in other problems occasionally so they don't forget

what they've already learned. I can't say enough good things about it. They

don't use it at school (although school purchased it : )- it is part of what we

do nightly for homework, but it only takes a few minutes and likes it

because the second half of it is always a game of his choosing. It also has

subtraction, multiplication and division. He does it by himself, without any

need of my assistance.

Re: reading, the computer program we use is also a supplement that we use

strictly for homework (also school-purchased), as they work on another program

during the school day. The program we use at home is Read Naturally, which is

not specific to kids with disabilities, but because it starts at whatever level

your child is on, from kindergarten (level 0) on up, it will be work appropriate

for your child. started out at upper first grade at the beginning of last

school year, and by the end of the school year- both according to the Read

Naturally testing, and standardized testing- he was reading at the upper third

grade level- 2 years of progress in a year! He is now working on the lower fifth

grade level. Read Naturally works not only on speed, but also comprehension and

fluency, as it has a quiz and short retell at the end of the short stories, and

has a read-along section. The stories are high interest- things like PT Barnum

and Bigfoot and giant squid, as well as historical figures like Lincoln and

Amelia Earhart and Billie King. He does it for the most part by himself,

although on the 1 minute timed sections, I move the cursor for him (just because

otherwise, it slows him down, and cursor-moving is not a reading skill). I used

to sit with him during the quiz part and help prompt him, but I decided that

made him rely too much on me, so usually I walk away while he does that, and

only assist if he seems to be getting stuck on something, by pointing out a

section for him to re-read.

During the day, they use a program based on the Vanderbilt PALS (Peer Assisted

Learning System) reading program (you can find info on it at the Vanderbilt

site, or just google it). The Vanderbilt program is very cheap to purchase. It

is not a computer program but rather print materials, and it covers the Big Five

for reading- I can't remember what all the 5 are, but I know it includes sight

words, phonetics (recent testing has disproved the long-held theory that kids

with DS can't learn phonetically- just don't try using a rigid rule-based system

like to teach it), fluency, comprehension, and ??? something else that

has to do with sounds. The teacher or aide, rather than a peer, does it with

him, although it COULD be implemented by a peer with training.

Anyway, I hope this helps some other folks!

Amy Petulla

[Guest guest]

Maverick did edmark... finished the whole program.

He did very well with the sight words, but the problem is, he was not able to

change them into any other work. Like ALL was ALL.. and he could not say " B

-a-l-l or W-a-ll. There was no phonics teaching.

The school district pretty much refused to teach him phonic until he was a Jr.

and we moved him to a new school.. same district.. different school.

They started teaching him phonics and he caught on well, but not as well as he

would have had he gotten it earlier, or along side the edmark.

[Guest guest]

Amy is saying isn’t good with ds, but it’s supposedly based on OG—

???

Judi

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

Eleanor Green

Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:50 PM

' Moreno'; ; amyp98@...

Subject: RE: excellent reading and math programs

Get Orton-Gillingham! The sooner, the better. Whatever it takes, get that

program. That, plus “Read Naturally,†have been huge bonuses for my

daughter. The educational specialist at the DS clinic at Children’s Cincinnati

said she has never seen a better program for kids with ds (and other kids too)

than O-G. I now teach it to all grade levels, ages, and developmental needs. I

became a Reading Interventionist this year at one of our local elementary

schools. I think Edmark is good and has merit, but I believe O-G is better. One

other thought for you, my experience has been that children w ds seem to go

along not making much progress…not much progress…not much progress…and

then! A huge leap happens! So don’t give up! Is your child in an included

classroom? I believe that helps too – to be surrounded by age appropriate

peers who are modeling good reading…it’s good for everyone.

Good luck.

Eleanor Green

From: <mailto:%40>

[mailto: <mailto:%40> ] On

Behalf Of Moreno

Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:40 PM

<mailto:%40> ;

amyp98@... <mailto:amyp98%40comcast.net>

Subject: Re: excellent reading and math programs

Hi all,

Has anyone had any type of experience with a reading program called edmark? My

grandson is in second grade and this is what they are using for him. I don't see

much difference in his abilities, so far.

Thank you...Becky Moreno

excellent reading and math programs

Hi there. Some of you may remember that I posted something before, asking about

any good reading or math programs. We have a fabulous high school inclusion

teacher, who is God's reward to me for not killing anyone in middle school, and

she has come up with a great math computer program, and we also finally took my

SIL the ed expert's advice on a reading program, which was the best thing we've

ever done for reading. So I wanted to share them with you, in case they can help

someone else.

Re: math, ever since elementary school, I have been pushing the school to teach

his math tables, with poor results. For the most part, the took the

position that he could use a calculator and so why did he need to memorize math

tables? (to which I of course replied by asking them the same question about

their own children), and when I insisted, they put little effort into it, with

the result that the highest he ever got was mastering 0'1, 1's and 2's and

working on the 3's tables, and that was when I was working with him myself over

the summer one year in elementary school; when he got back to school and it

became their responsibility, he backslid to the point he didn't even have his

2's memorized. It was the source of much frustration. So anyway, his high school

teacher found this computer program called FASTT Math. In one school year, he

memorized addition tables 0-9, and polished off 10-12 over the summer. It takes

a baseline, uses repetition and games, and measures the time it takes him to

answer so it knows whether he's answering from memory or just counting on his

fingers (I think TouchMath is much more complicated than simply using fingers,

so we just used fingers up until then), it categorizes into study facts and

focus facts, so that they are working on a specific set of numbers at a time,

although it still throws in other problems occasionally so they don't forget

what they've already learned. I can't say enough good things about it. They

don't use it at school (although school purchased it : )- it is part of what we

do nightly for homework, but it only takes a few minutes and likes it

because the second half of it is always a game of his choosing. It also has

subtraction, multiplication and division. He does it by himself, without any

need of my assistance.

Re: reading, the computer program we use is also a supplement that we use

strictly for homework (also school-purchased), as they work on another program

during the school day. The program we use at home is Read Naturally, which is

not specific to kids with disabilities, but because it starts at whatever level

your child is on, from kindergarten (level 0) on up, it will be work appropriate

for your child. started out at upper first grade at the beginning of last

school year, and by the end of the school year- both according to the Read

Naturally testing, and standardized testing- he was reading at the upper third

grade level- 2 years of progress in a year! He is now working on the lower fifth

grade level. Read Naturally works not only on speed, but also comprehension and

fluency, as it has a quiz and short retell at the end of the short stories, and

has a read-along section. The stories are high interest- things like PT Barnum

and Bigfoot and giant squid, as well as historical figures like Lincoln and

Amelia Earhart and Billie King. He does it for the most part by himself,

although on the 1 minute timed sections, I move the cursor for him (just because

otherwise, it slows him down, and cursor-moving is not a reading skill). I used

to sit with him during the quiz part and help prompt him, but I decided that

made him rely too much on me, so usually I walk away while he does that, and

only assist if he seems to be getting stuck on something, by pointing out a

section for him to re-read.

During the day, they use a program based on the Vanderbilt PALS (Peer Assisted

Learning System) reading program (you can find info on it at the Vanderbilt

site, or just google it). The Vanderbilt program is very cheap to purchase. It

is not a computer program but rather print materials, and it covers the Big Five

for reading- I can't remember what all the 5 are, but I know it includes sight

words, phonetics (recent testing has disproved the long-held theory that kids

with DS can't learn phonetically- just don't try using a rigid rule-based system

like to teach it), fluency, comprehension, and ??? something else that

has to do with sounds. The teacher or aide, rather than a peer, does it with

him, although it COULD be implemented by a peer with training.

Anyway, I hope this helps some other folks!

Amy Petulla

[Guest guest]

Karrie is " reading " Edmark words...but I want her to be able to read a book, not

just sight words or only edmark books...any suggestions? I've been creating

books for her, based on characters she likes, scanning and scaling down

pictures...I'd like to find a program that the school could actually use...

Sue mom to Kate 20 and Karrie 13 w/ds and mild autism

> He did very well with the sight words, but the problem is, he was not able to

change them into any other work. Like ALL was ALL.. and he could not say " B

-a-l-l or W-a-ll. There was no phonics teaching.

> The school district pretty much refused to teach him phonic until he was a Jr.

and we moved him to a new school.. same district.. different school.

> They started teaching him phonics and he caught on well, but not as well as he

would have had he gotten it earlier, or along side the edmark.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think there is an O-G component to the reading. O-G has been around for

70 years, but a number of programs are offshoots from it…I will say I think

there is value in the program too. Anything that marries up tactile, with

auditory, with kinesthetic, with visual, has to be helpful to ‘hit’ a child

on every sensory level in order to learn. But that O-G stuff is making believers

out of long time teachers in a big way in the 4 years since our school system

brought it in.

Eleanor

From: FireRose [mailto:FireRose@...]

Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 8:18 PM

'Eleanor Green'; ' Moreno'; ;

amyp98@...

Subject: RE: excellent reading and math programs

Amy is saying isn’t good with ds, but it’s supposedly based on OG—

???

Judi

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

Eleanor Green

Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:50 PM

' Moreno'; ; amyp98@...

Subject: RE: excellent reading and math programs

Get Orton-Gillingham! The sooner, the better. Whatever it takes, get that

program. That, plus “Read Naturally,†have been huge bonuses for my

daughter. The educational specialist at the DS clinic at Children’s Cincinnati

said she has never seen a better program for kids with ds (and other kids too)

than O-G. I now teach it to all grade levels, ages, and developmental needs. I

became a Reading Interventionist this year at one of our local elementary

schools. I think Edmark is good and has merit, but I believe O-G is better. One

other thought for you, my experience has been that children w ds seem to go

along not making much progress…not much progress…not much progress…and

then! A huge leap happens! So don’t give up! Is your child in an included

classroom? I believe that helps too – to be surrounded by age appropriate

peers who are modeling good reading…it’s good for everyone.

Good luck.

Eleanor Green

From: <mailto:%40>

[mailto: <mailto:%40> ] On

Behalf Of Moreno

Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:40 PM

<mailto:%40> ;

amyp98@... <mailto:amyp98%40comcast.net>

Subject: Re: excellent reading and math programs

Hi all,

Has anyone had any type of experience with a reading program called edmark? My

grandson is in second grade and this is what they are using for him. I don't see

much difference in his abilities, so far.

Thank you...Becky Moreno

excellent reading and math programs

Hi there. Some of you may remember that I posted something before, asking about

any good reading or math programs. We have a fabulous high school inclusion

teacher, who is God's reward to me for not killing anyone in middle school, and

she has come up with a great math computer program, and we also finally took my

SIL the ed expert's advice on a reading program, which was the best thing we've

ever done for reading. So I wanted to share them with you, in case they can help

someone else.

Re: math, ever since elementary school, I have been pushing the school to teach

his math tables, with poor results. For the most part, the took the

position that he could use a calculator and so why did he need to memorize math

tables? (to which I of course replied by asking them the same question about

their own children), and when I insisted, they put little effort into it, with

the result that the highest he ever got was mastering 0'1, 1's and 2's and

working on the 3's tables, and that was when I was working with him myself over

the summer one year in elementary school; when he got back to school and it

became their responsibility, he backslid to the point he didn't even have his

2's memorized. It was the source of much frustration. So anyway, his high school

teacher found this computer program called FASTT Math. In one school year, he

memorized addition tables 0-9, and polished off 10-12 over the summer. It takes

a baseline, uses repetition and games, and measures the time it takes him to

answer so it knows whether he's answering from memory or just counting on his

fingers (I think TouchMath is much more complicated than simply using fingers,

so we just used fingers up until then), it categorizes into study facts and

focus facts, so that they are working on a specific set of numbers at a time,

although it still throws in other problems occasionally so they don't forget

what they've already learned. I can't say enough good things about it. They

don't use it at school (although school purchased it : )- it is part of what we

do nightly for homework, but it only takes a few minutes and likes it

because the second half of it is always a game of his choosing. It also has

subtraction, multiplication and division. He does it by himself, without any

need of my assistance.

Re: reading, the computer program we use is also a supplement that we use

strictly for homework (also school-purchased), as they work on another program

during the school day. The program we use at home is Read Naturally, which is

not specific to kids with disabilities, but because it starts at whatever level

your child is on, from kindergarten (level 0) on up, it will be work appropriate

for your child. started out at upper first grade at the beginning of last

school year, and by the end of the school year- both according to the Read

Naturally testing, and standardized testing- he was reading at the upper third

grade level- 2 years of progress in a year! He is now working on the lower fifth

grade level. Read Naturally works not only on speed, but also comprehension and

fluency, as it has a quiz and short retell at the end of the short stories, and

has a read-along section. The stories are high interest- things like PT Barnum

and Bigfoot and giant squid, as well as historical figures like Lincoln and

Amelia Earhart and Billie King. He does it for the most part by himself,

although on the 1 minute timed sections, I move the cursor for him (just because

otherwise, it slows him down, and cursor-moving is not a reading skill). I used

to sit with him during the quiz part and help prompt him, but I decided that

made him rely too much on me, so usually I walk away while he does that, and

only assist if he seems to be getting stuck on something, by pointing out a

section for him to re-read.

During the day, they use a program based on the Vanderbilt PALS (Peer Assisted

Learning System) reading program (you can find info on it at the Vanderbilt

site, or just google it). The Vanderbilt program is very cheap to purchase. It

is not a computer program but rather print materials, and it covers the Big Five

for reading- I can't remember what all the 5 are, but I know it includes sight

words, phonetics (recent testing has disproved the long-held theory that kids

with DS can't learn phonetically- just don't try using a rigid rule-based system

like to teach it), fluency, comprehension, and ??? something else that

has to do with sounds. The teacher or aide, rather than a peer, does it with

him, although it COULD be implemented by a peer with training.

Anyway, I hope this helps some other folks!

Amy Petulla

[Guest guest]

Orton Gillingham does work on phonetics (there are a number of strategies taught

for decoding a word), but it definitely has a method to teach sight (they call

them “redâ€) words in a fashion children really seem to respond to. I believe

O-G, plus “Read Naturally†(or something akin to that) really helps with

fluency, phonetics, comprehension and sight words. Again, I believe

Edmark//and other methods have their merits too. My girl worked in all of

them I think! But this one I’m really keen on. I’m seeing improvement in

fluency/recognition/comprehension.

Eleanor

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

karriemom@...

Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 8:17 PM

and FRANK; Moreno; ;

amyp98@...

Subject: Re: excellent reading and math programs

Karrie is " reading " Edmark words...but I want her to be able to read a book, not

just sight words or only edmark books...any suggestions? I've been creating

books for her, based on characters she likes, scanning and scaling down

pictures...I'd like to find a program that the school could actually use...

Sue mom to Kate 20 and Karrie 13 w/ds and mild autism

> He did very well with the sight words, but the problem is, he was not able to

change them into any other work. Like ALL was ALL.. and he could not say " B

-a-l-l or W-a-ll. There was no phonics teaching.

> The school district pretty much refused to teach him phonic until he was a Jr.

and we moved him to a new school.. same district.. different school.

> They started teaching him phonics and he caught on well, but not as well as he

would have had he gotten it earlier, or along side the edmark.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You know what I don't understand -- most of the children I know with

Down Syndrome take speech (for that matter a lot of special ed children

take speech) so they learn what the letters say. To me with this base,

you'd think someone would have a light bulb moment and realize that

teaching them to read phonetically shouldn't be that difficult (they

already know the sounds). That's basically how I taught Nick in those

early years and how he learned. Then the teacher that knew he could

read phonetically left (didn't leave any good records of what the

children were doing) and the replacement the following year started

them all on Edmark. From that moment on Nick no longer wanted to sound

out the words (instead of reading/saying the movie the minute he saw

the " mov " -- he said " move " ). I'm still struggling to get him to sound

his words out and it's been 8 years. He used to say " too hard " but at

least attempt to sound the word out when I reminded him he knew what

all the letters said -- now he just says " too hard " or " too big " .

His first year of 1st grade the teacher (who had him reading

phonetically) had Nick reciting the alphabet phonetically because Nick

knew it so well he'd reach the end of the alphabet before the rest of

the class was half-way done. Having Nick do it phonetically kept him

with the rest of the class speed-wise. No more -- it is way to easy

just to use sight words.

Cari

Re: excellent reading and math programs

Maverick did edmark... finished the whole program.

He did very well with the sight words, but the problem is, he was not

able to change them into any other work. Like ALL was ALL.. and he

could not say " B -a-l-l or W-a-ll. There was no phonics teaching.

The school district pretty much refused to teach him phonic until he

was a Jr. and we moved him to a new school.. same district.. different

school.

They started teaching him phonics and he caught on well, but not as

well as he would have had he gotten it earlier, or along side the

edmark.

[Guest guest]

Hey Becky.  We used Edmark early on.  It is a good sight-reading program, but

it does not teach phonics, decoding (that was the 5th thing I couldn't think of

before), etc.  Loveandlearning also has a nice sight reading program for very

early on.

Amy

excellent reading and math programs

 

Hi there.  Some of you may remember that I posted something before, asking

about any good reading or math programs.  We have a fabulous high school

inclusion teacher, who is God's reward to me for not killing anyone in middle

school, and she has come up with a great math computer program, and we also

finally took my SIL the ed expert's advice on a reading program, which was the

best thing we've ever done for reading.  So I wanted to share them with you, in

case they can help someone else.

Re: math, ever since elementary school, I have been pushing the school to teach

his math tables, with poor results.  For the most part, the took the

position that he could use a calculator and so why did he need to memorize math

tables? (to which I of course replied by asking them the same question about

their own children), and when I insisted, they put little effort into it, with

the result that the highest he ever got was mastering 0'1, 1's and 2's and

working on the 3's tables, and that was when I was working with him myself over

the summer one year in elementary school; when he got back to school and it

became their responsibility, he backslid to the point he didn't even have his

2's memorized.  It was the source of much frustration.  So anyway, his high

school teacher found this computer program called FASTT Math.  In one school

year, he memorized addition tables 0-9, and polished off 10-12 over the

summer.  It takes a baseline, uses repetition and games, and measures the time

it takes him to answer so it knows whether he's answering from memory or just

counting on his fingers (I think TouchMath is much more complicated than simply

using fingers, so we just used fingers up until then), it categorizes into study

facts and focus facts, so that they are working on a specific set of numbers at

a time, although it still throws in other problems occasionally so they don't

forget what they've already learned.  I can't say enough good things about

it.  They don't use it at school (although school purchased it  : )- it is

part of what we do nightly for homework, but it only takes a few minutes and

likes it because the second half of it is always a game of his choosing. 

It also has subtraction, multiplication and division.  He does it by himself,

without any need of my assistance.

Re: reading, the computer program we use is also a supplement that we use

strictly for homework (also school-purchased), as they work on another program

during the school day.  The program we use at home is Read Naturally, which is

not specific to kids with disabilities, but because it starts at whatever level

your child is on, from kindergarten (level 0) on up, it will be work appropriate

for your child.  started out at upper first grade at the beginning of

last school year, and by the end of the school year- both according to the Read

Naturally testing, and standardized testing- he was reading at the upper third

grade level- 2 years of progress in a year!  He is now working on the lower

fifth grade level.  Read Naturally works not only on speed, but also

comprehension and fluency, as it has a quiz and short retell at the end of the

short stories, and has a read-along section.  The stories are high interest-

things like PT Barnum and Bigfoot and giant squid, as well as historical figures

like Lincoln and Amelia Earhart and Billie King.  He does it for the most

part by himself, although on the 1 minute timed sections, I move the cursor for

him (just because otherwise, it slows him down, and cursor-moving is not a

reading skill).  I used to sit with him during the quiz part and help prompt

him, but I decided that made him rely too much on me, so usually I walk away

while he does that, and only assist if he seems to be getting stuck on

something, by pointing out a section for him to re-read.

During the day, they use a program based on the Vanderbilt PALS (Peer Assisted

Learning System) reading program (you can find info on it at the Vanderbilt

site, or just google it).  The Vanderbilt program is very cheap to purchase. 

It is not a computer program but rather print materials, and it covers the Big

Five for reading- I can't remember what all the 5 are, but I know it includes

sight words, phonetics (recent testing has disproved the long-held theory that

kids with DS can't learn phonetically- just don't try using a rigid rule-based

system like to teach it), fluency, comprehension, and ??? something else

that has to do with sounds.  The teacher or aide, rather than a peer, does it

with him, although it COULD be implemented by a peer with training.

Anyway, I hope this helps some other folks!

Amy Petulla

[Guest guest]

You can create your own books, OR use books other people have created, in a

very effective format, at http://bookbuilder.cast.org/   I created an adapted

version of the first half of Twilight for on there.  It lets you build

in supports, like it will ask your child questions on each page (for

comprehension), or you can create links to definitions of words, or many other

things, like adding pictures and sound to make it interesting.  It is free

software, created by the cast.org folks, who are THE experts on Universal

Design for Learning (which is also now written into the law, although

unfortunately most educators, at least here, have never even heard of it.  If

you don't know about it, you need to learn-- its brings differentiated

instruction, which has been around for 20 years but most teachers still don't

know what it means or how to do it into the 21st century, and expands it past

just instruction to everything involved in learning, including the environment.)

 

Re: excellent reading and math programs

Karrie is " reading " Edmark words...but I want her to be able to read a book, not

just sight words or only edmark books...any suggestions? I've been creating

books for her, based on characters she likes, scanning and scaling down

pictures...I'd like to find a program that the school could actually use...

Sue mom to Kate 20 and Karrie 13 w/ds and mild autism

> He did very well with the sight words, but the problem is, he was not able to

change them into any other work.  Like ALL was ALL.. and he could not say " B

-a-l-l or W-a-ll.   There was no phonics teaching.

> The school district pretty much refused to teach him phonic until he was a Jr.

and we moved him to a new school.. same district.. different school.  

> They started teaching him phonics and he caught on well, but not as well as he

would have had he gotten it earlier, or along side the edmark.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am not sure if I am going to get anything else at this point but all of my

children learned their phonics with The Writing Road To Reading.  It is a great

program, not costly, and has other " helper " books out there for those that want

more scripted assitance.

Alden loves doing rhyme and is utilizing his phonics very well.  I would stress

finding a good phonics program, for sure, and start them with their letter

sounds as early as possible. I taught mine the sounds first and then we learned

the alphabet.  I am not an advocate of whole language approach at all.  

Alden also loves to go online at Starfall.com  It is free and is a nice site

for fun with learning.  

One of his favorite games for Math currently is here:

http://www.ictgames.com/save_the_whale_v4.html

There are literacy games there too, but I have not looked around much yet.  I

try to find things to supplement his education in a fun yet not costly way.  He

loves using the computer and getting instant feedback.

Kiersten

From: karriemom@... <karriemom@...>

Subject: Re: excellent reading and math programs

" and FRANK " <michdock@...>, " Moreno "

<drlmoreno@...>, , amyp98@...

Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 6:17 PM

 

Karrie is " reading " Edmark words...but I want her to be able to read a

book, not just sight words or only edmark books....any suggestions? I've been

creating books for her, based on characters she likes, scanning and scaling down

pictures...I' d like to find a program that the school could actually use...

Sue mom to Kate 20 and Karrie 13 w/ds and mild autism

> He did very well with the sight words, but the problem is, he was not able to

change them into any other work. Like ALL was ALL.. and he could not say " B

-a-l-l or W-a-ll. There was no phonics teaching.

> The school district pretty much refused to teach him phonic until he was a Jr.

and we moved him to a new school.. same district.. different school.

> They started teaching him phonics and he caught on well, but not as well as he

would have had he gotten it earlier, or along side the edmark.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I remember reading or hearing that phonics based would not work for children

with DS, but I do not remember where.  Alden is proving that theory totally

wrong, imho.  Kiersten

From: FireRose <FireRose@...>

Subject: RE: excellent reading and math programs

" 'Eleanor Green' " <eig6@...>, " ' Moreno' " <drlmoreno@...>,

, amyp98@...

Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 6:17 PM

 

Amy is saying isn’t good with ds, but it’s supposedly based on

OG— ???

Judi

From: @grou ps.com [mailto:@grou ps.com] On Behalf

Of Eleanor Green

Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:50 PM

' Moreno'; @grou ps.com; amyp98comcast (DOT) net

Subject: RE: excellent reading and math programs

Get Orton-Gillingham! The sooner, the better. Whatever it takes, get that

program. That, plus “Read Naturally,†have been huge bonuses for my

daughter. The educational specialist at the DS clinic at Children’s Cincinnati

said she has never seen a better program for kids with ds (and other kids too)

than O-G. I now teach it to all grade levels, ages, and developmental needs. I

became a Reading Interventionist this year at one of our local elementary

schools. I think Edmark is good and has merit, but I believe O-G is better. One

other thought for you, my experience has been that children w ds seem to go

along not making much progress…not much progress…not much progress…and

then! A huge leap happens! So don’t give up! Is your child in an included

classroom? I believe that helps too – to be surrounded by age appropriate

peers who are modeling good reading…it’s good for everyone.

Good luck.

Eleanor Green

From: @grou ps.com <mailto:% 40groups. com>

[mailto:@grou ps.com <mailto:% 40groups. com> ] On

Behalf Of Moreno

Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:40 PM

@grou ps.com <mailto:% 40groups. com> ;

amyp98comcast (DOT) net <mailto:amyp98% 40comcast. net>

Subject: Re: excellent reading and math programs

Hi all,

Has anyone had any type of experience with a reading program called edmark? My

grandson is in second grade and this is what they are using for him. I don't see

much difference in his abilities, so far.

Thank you...Becky Moreno

excellent reading and math programs

Hi there. Some of you may remember that I posted something before, asking about

any good reading or math programs. We have a fabulous high school inclusion

teacher, who is God's reward to me for not killing anyone in middle school, and

she has come up with a great math computer program, and we also finally took my

SIL the ed expert's advice on a reading program, which was the best thing we've

ever done for reading. So I wanted to share them with you, in case they can help

someone else.

Re: math, ever since elementary school, I have been pushing the school to teach

his math tables, with poor results. For the most part, the took the

position that he could use a calculator and so why did he need to memorize math

tables? (to which I of course replied by asking them the same question about

their own children), and when I insisted, they put little effort into it, with

the result that the highest he ever got was mastering 0'1, 1's and 2's and

working on the 3's tables, and that was when I was working with him myself over

the summer one year in elementary school; when he got back to school and it

became their responsibility, he backslid to the point he didn't even have his

2's memorized. It was the source of much frustration. So anyway, his high school

teacher found this computer program called FASTT Math. In one school year, he

memorized addition tables 0-9, and polished off 10-12 over the summer. It takes

a baseline, uses repetition

and games, and measures the time it takes him to answer so it knows whether

he's answering from memory or just counting on his fingers (I think TouchMath is

much more complicated than simply using fingers, so we just used fingers up

until then), it categorizes into study facts and focus facts, so that they are

working on a specific set of numbers at a time, although it still throws in

other problems occasionally so they don't forget what they've already learned. I

can't say enough good things about it. They don't use it at school (although

school purchased it : )- it is part of what we do nightly for homework, but it

only takes a few minutes and likes it because the second half of it is

always a game of his choosing. It also has subtraction, multiplication and

division. He does it by himself, without any need of my assistance.

Re: reading, the computer program we use is also a supplement that we use

strictly for homework (also school-purchased) , as they work on another program

during the school day. The program we use at home is Read Naturally, which is

not specific to kids with disabilities, but because it starts at whatever level

your child is on, from kindergarten (level 0) on up, it will be work appropriate

for your child. started out at upper first grade at the beginning of last

school year, and by the end of the school year- both according to the Read

Naturally testing, and standardized testing- he was reading at the upper third

grade level- 2 years of progress in a year! He is now working on the lower fifth

grade level. Read Naturally works not only on speed, but also comprehension and

fluency, as it has a quiz and short retell at the end of the short stories, and

has a read-along section. The stories are high interest- things like PT Barnum

and Bigfoot and giant

squid, as well as historical figures like Lincoln and Amelia Earhart and Billie

King. He does it for the most part by himself, although on the 1 minute

timed sections, I move the cursor for him (just because otherwise, it slows him

down, and cursor-moving is not a reading skill). I used to sit with him during

the quiz part and help prompt him, but I decided that made him rely too much on

me, so usually I walk away while he does that, and only assist if he seems to be

getting stuck on something, by pointing out a section for him to re-read.

During the day, they use a program based on the Vanderbilt PALS (Peer Assisted

Learning System) reading program (you can find info on it at the Vanderbilt

site, or just google it). The Vanderbilt program is very cheap to purchase. It

is not a computer program but rather print materials, and it covers the Big Five

for reading- I can't remember what all the 5 are, but I know it includes sight

words, phonetics (recent testing has disproved the long-held theory that kids

with DS can't learn phonetically- just don't try using a rigid rule-based system

like to teach it), fluency, comprehension, and ??? something else that

has to do with sounds. The teacher or aide, rather than a peer, does it with

him, although it COULD be implemented by a peer with training.

Anyway, I hope this helps some other folks!

Amy Petulla

[Guest guest]

What worries me with the sight words is that if the children do not learn

phonics first, they cap out at a lower reading level.

What I read through my studies was that while some children will figure out the

phonics on their own, when taught whole language approach... many will be stuck

at a lower reading level than if they had been taught phonics first.

The whole language that teaches babies to read cards does cap out on its own.

 The children may pick up on the phonetics of the language and move on as they

learn... but some will not.  Especially some visual learners, like my daughter

with dyslexia... if she did not have strong phonics she would be in a world of

hurt.  She sees the word " horse " and in her mind she pictures a horse.  When

she sees the words, the/was/but etc. she either needs to fall back on her

phonics to some extent and memorize.  You can only memorize so much... if you

want fluent, strong readers with any disability... phonics is important.

Also... whole language may get the children reading faster at first but then

there is that point where they are slower.  With phonics... some may start out

slowly but as they advance they are ferocious readers!  OK.... just my opinion

from my own reading and experience.  

Kiersten

 

From: CMancari@... <CMancari@...>

Subject: Re: excellent reading and math programs

michdock@..., , amyp98@...,

drlmoreno@...

Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 6:36 PM

 

You know what I don't understand -- most of the children I know with

Down Syndrome take speech (for that matter a lot of special ed children

take speech) so they learn what the letters say. To me with this base,

you'd think someone would have a light bulb moment and realize that

teaching them to read phonetically shouldn't be that difficult (they

already know the sounds). That's basically how I taught Nick in those

early years and how he learned. Then the teacher that knew he could

read phonetically left (didn't leave any good records of what the

children were doing) and the replacement the following year started

them all on Edmark. From that moment on Nick no longer wanted to sound

out the words (instead of reading/saying the movie the minute he saw

the " mov " -- he said " move " ). I'm still struggling to get him to sound

his words out and it's been 8 years. He used to say " too hard " but at

least attempt to sound the word out when I reminded him he knew what

all the letters said -- now he just says " too hard " or " too big " .

His first year of 1st grade the teacher (who had him reading

phonetically) had Nick reciting the alphabet phonetically because Nick

knew it so well he'd reach the end of the alphabet before the rest of

the class was half-way done. Having Nick do it phonetically kept him

with the rest of the class speed-wise. No more -- it is way to easy

just to use sight words.

Cari

Re: excellent reading and math programs

Maverick did edmark... finished the whole program.

He did very well with the sight words, but the problem is, he was not

able to change them into any other work. Like ALL was ALL.. and he

could not say " B -a-l-l or W-a-ll. There was no phonics teaching.

The school district pretty much refused to teach him phonic until he

was a Jr. and we moved him to a new school.. same district.. different

school.

They started teaching him phonics and he caught on well, but not as

well as he would have had he gotten it earlier, or along side the

edmark.

[Guest guest]

Olewein has a section in her book that describes how teachers were being trained

to believe children with ds couldn’t be taught to read and that it was a waste

of time—I think it’s more of a stereotype than a theory tho.

Judi

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

Kiersten

Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:21 PM

'Eleanor Green'; ' Moreno'; ;

amyp98@...; FireRose

Subject: RE: excellent reading and math programs

I remember reading or hearing that phonics based would not work for children

with DS, but I do not remember where. Alden is proving that theory totally

wrong, imho. Kiersten

From: FireRose <FireRose@... <mailto:FireRose%40hughes.net> >

Subject: RE: excellent reading and math programs

" 'Eleanor Green' " <eig6@... <mailto:eig6%40comcast.net> >, " '

Moreno' " <drlmoreno@... <mailto:drlmoreno%40cox.net> >,

<mailto:%40> ,

amyp98@... <mailto:amyp98%40comcast.net>

Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 6:17 PM

Amy is saying isn’t good with ds, but it’s supposedly based on OG—

???

Judi

From: @grou ps.com [mailto:@grou ps.com] On Behalf

Of Eleanor Green

Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:50 PM

' Moreno'; @grou ps.com; amyp98comcast (DOT) net

Subject: RE: excellent reading and math programs

Get Orton-Gillingham! The sooner, the better. Whatever it takes, get that

program. That, plus “Read Naturally,†have been huge bonuses for my

daughter. The educational specialist at the DS clinic at Children’s Cincinnati

said she has never seen a better program for kids with ds (and other kids too)

than O-G. I now teach it to all grade levels, ages, and developmental needs. I

became a Reading Interventionist this year at one of our local elementary

schools. I think Edmark is good and has merit, but I believe O-G is better. One

other thought for you, my experience has been that children w ds seem to go

along not making much progress…not much progress…not much progress…and

then! A huge leap happens! So don’t give up! Is your child in an included

classroom? I believe that helps too – to be surrounded by age appropriate

peers who are modeling good reading…it’s good for everyone.

Good luck.

Eleanor Green

From: @grou ps.com <mailto:% 40groups. com>

[mailto:@grou ps.com <mailto:% 40groups. com> ] On

Behalf Of Moreno

Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:40 PM

@grou ps.com <mailto:% 40groups. com> ;

amyp98comcast (DOT) net <mailto:amyp98% 40comcast. net>

Subject: Re: excellent reading and math programs

Hi all,

Has anyone had any type of experience with a reading program called edmark? My

grandson is in second grade and this is what they are using for him. I don't see

much difference in his abilities, so far.

Thank you...Becky Moreno

excellent reading and math programs

Hi there. Some of you may remember that I posted something before, asking about

any good reading or math programs. We have a fabulous high school inclusion

teacher, who is God's reward to me for not killing anyone in middle school, and

she has come up with a great math computer program, and we also finally took my

SIL the ed expert's advice on a reading program, which was the best thing we've

ever done for reading. So I wanted to share them with you, in case they can help

someone else.

Re: math, ever since elementary school, I have been pushing the school to teach

his math tables, with poor results. For the most part, the took the

position that he could use a calculator and so why did he need to memorize math

tables? (to which I of course replied by asking them the same question about

their own children), and when I insisted, they put little effort into it, with

the result that the highest he ever got was mastering 0'1, 1's and 2's and

working on the 3's tables, and that was when I was working with him myself over

the summer one year in elementary school; when he got back to school and it

became their responsibility, he backslid to the point he didn't even have his

2's memorized. It was the source of much frustration. So anyway, his high school

teacher found this computer program called FASTT Math. In one school year, he

memorized addition tables 0-9, and polished off 10-12 over the summer. It takes

a baseline, uses repetition

and games, and measures the time it takes him to answer so it knows whether he's

answering from memory or just counting on his fingers (I think TouchMath is much

more complicated than simply using fingers, so we just used fingers up until

then), it categorizes into study facts and focus facts, so that they are working

on a specific set of numbers at a time, although it still throws in other

problems occasionally so they don't forget what they've already learned. I can't

say enough good things about it. They don't use it at school (although school

purchased it : )- it is part of what we do nightly for homework, but it only

takes a few minutes and likes it because the second half of it is always a

game of his choosing. It also has subtraction, multiplication and division. He

does it by himself, without any need of my assistance.

Re: reading, the computer program we use is also a supplement that we use

strictly for homework (also school-purchased) , as they work on another program

during the school day. The program we use at home is Read Naturally, which is

not specific to kids with disabilities, but because it starts at whatever level

your child is on, from kindergarten (level 0) on up, it will be work appropriate

for your child. started out at upper first grade at the beginning of last

school year, and by the end of the school year- both according to the Read

Naturally testing, and standardized testing- he was reading at the upper third

grade level- 2 years of progress in a year! He is now working on the lower fifth

grade level. Read Naturally works not only on speed, but also comprehension and

fluency, as it has a quiz and short retell at the end of the short stories, and

has a read-along section. The stories are high interest- things like PT Barnum

and Bigfoot and giant

squid, as well as historical figures like Lincoln and Amelia Earhart and Billie

King. He does it for the most part by himself, although on the 1 minute

timed sections, I move the cursor for him (just because otherwise, it slows him

down, and cursor-moving is not a reading skill). I used to sit with him during

the quiz part and help prompt him, but I decided that made him rely too much on

me, so usually I walk away while he does that, and only assist if he seems to be

getting stuck on something, by pointing out a section for him to re-read.

During the day, they use a program based on the Vanderbilt PALS (Peer Assisted

Learning System) reading program (you can find info on it at the Vanderbilt

site, or just google it). The Vanderbilt program is very cheap to purchase. It

is not a computer program but rather print materials, and it covers the Big Five

for reading- I can't remember what all the 5 are, but I know it includes sight

words, phonetics (recent testing has disproved the long-held theory that kids

with DS can't learn phonetically- just don't try using a rigid rule-based system

like to teach it), fluency, comprehension, and ??? something else that

has to do with sounds. The teacher or aide, rather than a peer, does it with

him, although it COULD be implemented by a peer with training.

Anyway, I hope this helps some other folks!

Amy Petulla

[Guest guest]

I read that myself, years ago, when Mav was a baby. Phonics and DS do not mix.

THAT is why I pushed so hard for him to get the Edmark program. THEN, they

didn't even TRY phonics.

Let's look at Edmark like sign language with kids with DS. Most of them don't

need it forever, but it's a nice bridge. And we NEVER just sign, we use whole

language, sign and speech. So, once the kids get the reading sight words... and

are hooked.. some type of phonics program should be introduced.

[Guest guest]

When I entered Maverick into public school in first grade we told them we wanted

him to learn to read. (We had observed the sped classroom and they were not

teaching them reading.)

Mav was fully included in a 1st grade classroom. We had him enter the school

knowing 30 sight words and we had made 3 books that he could read. We used

polaroids and put pics in there with simple sentences. We knew that I we didn't

have him reading, they wouldn't do it. We also bought them the book, Teaching

Children with DS to read.

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

Thank you so very much for your quick answers! I didn't see where Edmark taught

phonics, so I am glad to see that it has use as a bridge to further reading

readiness.

Thanks again!

Becky Moreno

excellent reading and math programs

Hi there. Some of you may remember that I posted something before, asking

about any good reading or math programs. We have a fabulous high school

inclusion teacher, who is God's reward to me for not killing anyone in middle

school, and she has come up with a great math computer program, and we also

finally took my SIL the ed expert's advice on a reading program, which was the

best thing we've ever done for reading. So I wanted to share them with you, in

case they can help someone else.

Re: math, ever since elementary school, I have been pushing the school to

teach his math tables, with poor results. For the most part, the took the

position that he could use a calculator and so why did he need to memorize math

tables? (to which I of course replied by asking them the same question about

their own children), and when I insisted, they put little effort into it, with

the result that the highest he ever got was mastering 0'1, 1's and 2's and

working on the 3's tables, and that was when I was working with him myself over

the summer one year in elementary school; when he got back to school and it

became their responsibility, he backslid to the point he didn't even have his

2's memorized. It was the source of much frustration. So anyway, his high

school teacher found this computer program called FASTT Math. In one school

year, he memorized addition tables 0-9, and polished off 10-12 over the summer.

It takes a baseline, uses repetition and games, and measures the time it takes

him to answer so it knows whether he's answering from memory or just counting on

his fingers (I think TouchMath is much more complicated than simply using

fingers, so we just used fingers up until then), it categorizes into study facts

and focus facts, so that they are working on a specific set of numbers at a

time, although it still throws in other problems occasionally so they don't

forget what they've already learned. I can't say enough good things about it.

They don't use it at school (although school purchased it : )- it is part of

what we do nightly for homework, but it only takes a few minutes and likes

it because the second half of it is always a game of his choosing. It also has

subtraction, multiplication and division. He does it by himself, without any

need of my assistance.

Re: reading, the computer program we use is also a supplement that we use

strictly for homework (also school-purchased), as they work on another program

during the school day. The program we use at home is Read Naturally, which is

not specific to kids with disabilities, but because it starts at whatever level

your child is on, from kindergarten (level 0) on up, it will be work appropriate

for your child. started out at upper first grade at the beginning of last

school year, and by the end of the school year- both according to the Read

Naturally testing, and standardized testing- he was reading at the upper third

grade level- 2 years of progress in a year! He is now working on the lower

fifth grade level. Read Naturally works not only on speed, but also

comprehension and fluency, as it has a quiz and short retell at the end of the

short stories, and has a read-along section. The stories are high interest-

things like PT Barnum and Bigfoot and giant squid, as well as historical figures

like Lincoln and Amelia Earhart and Billie King. He does it for the most

part by himself, although on the 1 minute timed sections, I move the cursor for

him (just because otherwise, it slows him down, and cursor-moving is not a

reading skill). I used to sit with him during the quiz part and help prompt

him, but I decided that made him rely too much on me, so usually I walk away

while he does that, and only assist if he seems to be getting stuck on

something, by pointing out a section for him to re-read.

During the day, they use a program based on the Vanderbilt PALS (Peer

Assisted Learning System) reading program (you can find info on it at the

Vanderbilt site, or just google it). The Vanderbilt program is very cheap to

purchase. It is not a computer program but rather print materials, and it

covers the Big Five for reading- I can't remember what all the 5 are, but I know

it includes sight words, phonetics (recent testing has disproved the long-held

theory that kids with DS can't learn phonetically- just don't try using a rigid

rule-based system like to teach it), fluency, comprehension, and ???

something else that has to do with sounds. The teacher or aide, rather than a

peer, does it with him, although it COULD be implemented by a peer with

training.

Anyway, I hope this helps some other folks!

Amy Petulla