Guest guest Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 I'd like to hear many other folks take on this, but my best guess is that " any " hyperactivity, any excess frequency activity at FZ may reflect that it is a " hot " area continuing to the cingulate maybe basal ganglia areas. If you look (I'm stretching my limited knowledge of SPECT here) at Amen's anxiety scans they show excess activity in the cingulate, sometimes basal ganglia, and parietal areas. Since the SPECT is based on blood perfusion, (activity), my guess would be that hyperactivity (perhaps in any particular frequency) in that area , or even total spectrum activity could produce such an outward symptom... if the midline is more active than the relative R/L sides something is off....hence anxiety. It would seem a question of balance... (didn't the moody blues do that in the 60's) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 I'm pretty sure it was the early 70's. > > > I'd like to hear many other folks take on this, but my best guess is > that " any " hyperactivity, any excess frequency activity at FZ may > reflect that it is a " hot " area continuing to the cingulate maybe basal > ganglia areas. If you look (I'm stretching my limited knowledge of > SPECT here) at Amen's anxiety scans they show excess activity in the > cingulate, sometimes basal ganglia, and parietal areas. Since the SPECT > is based on blood perfusion, (activity), my guess would be that > hyperactivity (perhaps in any particular frequency) in that area , or > even total spectrum activity could produce such an outward symptom... if > the midline is more active than the relative R/L sides something is > off....hence anxiety. > > It would seem a question of balance... > > > (didn't the moody blues do that in the 60's) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 I have seen several presentations that speak of excess alpha anxiety. s comment about the cingulate may be right on target. The spect/pet scans that I have seen with anxiety show a " hot " overactive cingulate that you would think should be (and is at times) associated with excess beta. I heard Bob Gurnee talk about " hot " cingulate and " under-regulated cingulate. The classic 'hot cingulate' does appear to correspond with excess beta or high mean frequency beta. Another group of people with major problems with anxiety (excessive worry, obsessive thinking) show increased slow wave activity. These are the ones he calles under (or un-) regulated cingulate types. The under regulated cingulate not being controlled spins out of control. -- <mailto:gmartin@...> ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 , I agree with and that this is very likely related to the anxiety. It's always worth looking at what happens to the alpha with eyes open. I've seen some folks who had massive EC alpha frontally which dropped to Alpha/Theta ratios around .7 with eyes open, and they generally don't have a problem. But if it stays up around 1 or above, then it's likely a problem. Remember that the cingulate, along with the orbitofrontal cortex and basal ganglia, balance thought and emotion. The overactive cingulate, with lots of beta, tends to push heavy on the thought side at the expense of emotion. The underactive cingulate, with lots of alpha, tends to under-regulate the emotional side. I would certainly work on reducing the Fz alpha and see what kind of response she has. Pete Excess Alpha I have a new patient who is anxious and has atrial fibrillation. The most aberrant feature of her assessment is an alpha of 40% at FZ. this is more than twice as much as F3 or F4. I can't quite see the relevance to anxiety, but I reason that if it is that out of the ordinary, it probably would be good to have less of it. Can excess alpha be a sign of anxiety? She is worried about the AF naturally but has a long history of shyness and Social anxiety. Any ideas would be welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 , I had an article (I can't lay my hands on it right on) that suggested that anxiety, obsessive-compulsive disorder, autism and addictive behaviour were all part of a spectrum related to anterior cingulate dysfunction. It was argued that in such cases SSRIs produced a good response. Prior to NF I saw very good results with my son's autistic behaviour with very small doses of liquid prozac. Given that SSRIs have been known to reduce frontal alpha activity, it might be reasonable to expect alpha downtraining at FZ to be helpful in your case. Mark Darling Sunshine Coast, Australia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Thanks Mark, and all the other kind people who responded to my plea. I will continue to boldly go on reducing alpha and we'll see what follows. I guess i wanted reassurance that this wasn't totally a wild goose chase. On Dec 15, 2003, at 7:57 PM, Mark Darling wrote: , I had an article (I can't lay my hands on it right on) that suggested that anxiety, obsessive-compulsive disorder, autism and addictive behaviour were all part of a spectrum related to anterior cingulate dysfunction. It was argued that in such cases SSRIs produced a good response. Prior to NF I saw very good results with my son's autistic behaviour with very small doses of liquid prozac. Given that SSRIs have been known to reduce frontal alpha activity, it might be reasonable to expect alpha downtraining at FZ to be helpful in your case. Mark Darling Sunshine Coast, Australia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 , In Gurnee's talk did he relate any behavioral or symptom defferences between these two groups? Joan jbullardphd@... <gmartin@...> wrote: I have seen several presentations that speak of excess alpha anxiety. s comment about the cingulate may be right on target.The spect/pet scans that I have seen with anxiety show a "hot" overactive cingulate that you would think should be (and is at times) associated with excess beta. I heard Bob Gurnee talk about "hot" cingulate and "under-regulated cingulate. The classic 'hot cingulate' does appear to correspond with excess beta or high mean frequency beta. Another group of people with major problems with anxiety (excessive worry, obsessive thinking) show increased slow wave activity. These are the ones he calles under (or un-) regulated cingulate types. The under regulated cingulate not being controlled spins out of control.-- <mailto:gmartin@...> ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 I would really just want to know why this alpha really needs to be reduced. Is there much theta and low alpha or betas and high betas here. How do you know that alpha is the problem. Jeff From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of ann Velicky Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 11:44 AM Subject: Re: Excess alpha I'm wondering if a method that I learned from Sharrie Hanley may be applicable to this situation. Set up 2 channel training squish (6-10 or 8-10, depending on where his alpha lives). FZ-CZ/g/PZ-OZ; then move to left hem. F3-C3/g/T3-P3, then move to right hem. F4-C4/g/T4-P4. 10-15 min each section. EC for all. I find I get really nice downtrends of alpha with this. Sometimes, if the spectrum looks kind of wild throughout or if the client is having a difficult time, I'll go to a full squash (2-38)... it seems more gentle, the spectrum quiets, and the alpha still comes down. It sounds like you may need to integrate some other protocols in there but it's important to bring excessive alpha down. Once alpha is trained down a bit, other work may be more effective and stick better. This is my understanding. Sharrie? How does that sound? Best wishes, ann From: Goldring <paul.goldringgmail> Cc: biofeedback Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 8:22:13 AM Subject: Excess alpha I did an assessment on a man with a long history of depression and several suicide attempts. His symptoms include incapacitating anxiety, fatigue and lassitude, mental confusion and mood swings. He doesn't have much to work with and he has wildly excessive alpha (average PF around 9.4) both EC and EO. The highest amplitude alpha is at Cz. It blocks very well but its the highest amplitude by 10-20 uV everywhere I looked (I'm using the Swingle system of 5 electrodes). The question is how to reduce it? Should I just throw a dart at his head and reduce alpha? That's my predeliction but are there any other ideas out there? Goldring paul.goldring@ gmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 tics are usually a C4 thing not squish or squash thing what did the TLC say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 understand a squash is lie Pete says the star wars thing the ceiling is coming down and pushing down only the tall stuff the littel stuf on the bottom will come up a little but the ceiling will stop it from going crazy up when one is in practice that is what they do practice practice until they get it right!!!!! isn't that what MD's do?! watch and learn from each client that comes in observe and ask lots of questions when looking at the TLC use logic look at it like a piece of a puzzle that you have to assemble what goes where ? what do you have to train to move the numbers in the direction that they need to be in order to reach homeostasis or regulation of brain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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