Re: Re: Spiro vs Aldactone - insulin & cholesterol, cinnamon & vinegar

December 31, 2007

/For your mom, and others w/insulin, carb problems, Type II diabetes

(and bad cholesterol), look :/

http://diabetes.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ & sdn=diabetes & cdn=health\

& tm=29 & f=

10 & su=p726.2.152.ip_p674.2.400.ip_p284.8.150.ip_ & tt=13 & bt=0 & bts=0 & zu=http%3A//ww\

w.ars.usda.gov/

Research/docs.htm%3Fdocid%3D8877

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/26/12/3215

http://diabetes.about.com/od/whatsonthehorizon/qt/cinnamon.htm

/and Basalmic (strong version of cider) vinegar was stumbled upon too -

back in the 1980's :/

http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/modules.php?name=News & file=article & sid=2475

http://www.apple-cider-vinegar-benefits.com/vinegar-and-diabetes.html

/and recently at AZ State Univ., study found it was same effects as

medications :/

http://researchmag.asu.edu/stories/vinegar.html

Dave

Farah Rahbar wrote:

> Thanks for remembering my mom. She is doing well. Her heart stopped last

> year suddenly but not before being able to dial 911. Thankfully she was

> revived and they put a pace maker on her. She had a pace maker put in few

> months earlier but her doctor said she needed a better device. Her diabetes

> has been out of control with all medications they tried so she is now

> on 1.5units insuline once a day and her sugar level is still a little

> high between

> 150-200 which she is not happy about.

>

> Best Wishes to you,

> Farah

>

> On Dec 31, 2007 12:44 PM, airlinerg <airlinerg@...> wrote:

>

>> Hi Farah,

>>

>> Nice to hear from you and Happy New Year!

>>

>> Since you did not do well with Inspra, it seems like Aldactone is

>> your only choice (or the generic Spironolactone.)

>>

>> How is your mom doing with her diabetes?

>>

>> Be well,

>>

>> Airlinerg

>>

>>> Dear all & Dr. Grim:

>>> Here is my two cents worth; I sent an email over a month ago

>>>

>> asking if

>>

>>> anyone on the group knows differences between Aldactone and its

>>>

>> generic

>>

>>> drug Spironolactone. I have been taking spiro for two yrs now

>>>

>> following my

>>

>>> diagnosis with PA. I took 100 mgs for the most of the 1st year and

>>>

>> reduced

>>

>>> to 75mgs thereafter. Just to give a little background about

>>>

>> myself, thats

>>

>>> all I take plus I DASH. My BP is well controlled with the two to

>>>

>> be under

>>

>>> 120/80 most of the time at home and always under 100/60+ at the

>>>

>> doctors

>>

>>> office.

>>> Last month, I decided to ask for Aldactone when I was up to renew

>>>

>> my

>>

>>> prescription so after taking Aldactone for about a month now, here

>>>

>> it goes,

>>

>>> a summery of the differences I have so far experienced:

>>>

>>> *Spironolactone, 75mgs, 25am, 50 pm + DASH*

>>>

>>> *Aldactone, 75mgs, 25 am, 50 pm + DASH*

>>>

>>> costs $5.00 for the bottle of pills to last a month

>>>

>>> additonal $65.00 that my insurance did not cover.

>>>

>>> Severe flushing and sweating during the days and at nights

>>>

>>> Initially didn't notice much difference-by 2nd week sweating was

>>>

>> gone 80-90%

>>

>>> Occasional heart palpitations

>>>

>>> Initially didn't notice much difference - Much less after the 2nd

>>>

>> week and

>>

>>> after a month its almost gone

>>>

>>> Severe muscle aches specially in my calves during nights and

>>>

>> mornings

>>

>>> muscle aches appear to be reduced-definitely no more in my calves

>>>

>>> - didn't experience this on spiro

>>>

>>> Wake up in mornings with numb little finger in my right hand - I

>>>

>> mean its

>>

>>> really numb with no feeling what so ever for a while

>>>

>>> -

>>>

>>> My right toes and foot go numb when I walk fast- should I be

>>>

>> concerned or

>>

>>> is this a K thing?

>>>

>>> Chest feeling like its being ripped apart into shreds before a

>>>

>> sweating

>>

>>> episode

>>>

>>> I no longer have this feeling - hooray

>>>

>>> Occasional feeling of mild nausea(I would say a 1-2 on a scale of

>>>

>> 0 to

>>

>>> 10)

>>>

>>> no more nausea :-)

>>>

>>> BP well controlled under 120/80 or lower

>>>

>>> BP is well controlled under 120/80 or lower

>>>

>>> occasional bouts of low salt episodes and have to do quick salt

>>>

>> loading to

>>

>>> feel better otherwise can not function or think mentally -- every

>>>

>> few days

>>

>>> Have not experienced any low salt episodes(days) in the past month

>>>

>> and have

>>

>>> maintained a low salt diet

>>>

>>> Feeling tired often

>>>

>>> pain in breasts and increased size

>>>

>>> certainly the pain is gone and I have lost a little though not

>>>

>> measurably on

>>

>>> the scale- my tops feel slightly looser

>>>

>>> My rings fit in my fingers tighter

>>>

>>> My rings are rather loose and come right off my fingers, so

>>>

>> obviously some

>>

>>> kind of less swelling

>>>

>>> Whats interesting is that last week I was traveling and forgot to

>>>

>> take the

>>

>>> Aldactone with me. But no worries, because I had a bottle of extra

>>>

>> Spiro

>>

>>> with me which I took. After the 2nd day all the side effects, in

>>>

>> particular

>>

>>> the weired feeling in my chest and the flushing came back.

>>>

>> Thankfully I

>>

>>> only took it for 4 days and am now back on Aldactone. Now the

>>>

>> challenge

>>

>>> remains to convince my doctor to write a prescription for

>>>

>> Aldactone instead

>>

>>> of spiro so the insurance can cover it. Otherwise I think I have

>>>

>> to invest

>>

>>> in Aldactone by paying $65 each month. The other challenge that

>>>

>> remains is

>>

>>> to do a blood test and get a measurement of the Aldosterone, Renin

>>>

>> and my K.

>>

>>> Once I do that I will keep you all posted but it will be a while

>>>

>> before I am

>>

>>> up for my next blood work.

>>>

>>> By the way, I have checked the chemical compounds of the two on-

>>>

>> line and

>>

>>> they both appear to be the same with minor differences in

>>>

>> ingredients.(I am

>>

>>> not a chemistry kind of a person so I leave this to some of you

>>>

>> experts in

>>

>>> analyzing the chemical compounds of the two

>>>

>>> Happy New Year to all of you,

>>>

>>> Farah

>>>

December 31, 2007

Thanks Dave. I will let her know. I use balsamic vinegar and honey instead

of using salt in most foods I cook specially in stirfrys.

Farah

On Dec 31, 2007 1:05 PM, Dave <riothamus2@...> wrote:

> /For your mom, and others w/insulin, carb problems, Type II diabetes

> (and bad cholesterol), look :/

>

http://diabetes.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ & sdn=diabetes & cdn=health\

& tm=29 & f=

> 10 & su=

>

p726.2.152.ip_p674.2.400.ip_p284.8.150.ip_ & tt=13 & bt=0 & bts=0 & zu=http%3A//www.ars.\

usda.gov/

> Research/docs.htm%3Fdocid%3D8877

>

> http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/26/12/3215

>

> http://diabetes.about.com/od/whatsonthehorizon/qt/cinnamon.htm

>

> /and Basalmic (strong version of cider) vinegar was stumbled upon too -

> back in the 1980's :/

>

> http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/modules.php?name=News & file=article & sid=2475

>

> http://www.apple-cider-vinegar-benefits.com/vinegar-and-diabetes.html

>

> /and recently at AZ State Univ., study found it was same effects as

> medications :/

>

> http://researchmag.asu.edu/stories/vinegar.html

>

> Dave

>

> Farah Rahbar wrote:

> > Thanks for remembering my mom. She is doing well. Her heart stopped last

> > year suddenly but not before being able to dial 911. Thankfully she was

> > revived and they put a pace maker on her. She had a pace maker put in

> few

> > months earlier but her doctor said she needed a better device. Her

> diabetes

> > has been out of control with all medications they tried so she is now

> > on 1.5units insuline once a day and her sugar level is still a little

> > high between

> > 150-200 which she is not happy about.

> >

> > Best Wishes to you,

> > Farah

> >

> > On Dec 31, 2007 12:44 PM, airlinerg

<airlinerg@...<airlinerg%40grad.com>>

> wrote:

> >

> >> Hi Farah,

> >>

> >> Nice to hear from you and Happy New Year!

> >>

> >> Since you did not do well with Inspra, it seems like Aldactone is

> >> your only choice (or the generic Spironolactone.)

> >>

> >> How is your mom doing with her diabetes?

> >>

> >> Be well,

> >>

> >> Airlinerg

> >>

> >>> Dear all & Dr. Grim:

> >>> Here is my two cents worth; I sent an email over a month ago

> >>>

> >> asking if

> >>

> >>> anyone on the group knows differences between Aldactone and its

> >>>

> >> generic

> >>

> >>> drug Spironolactone. I have been taking spiro for two yrs now

> >>>

> >> following my

> >>

> >>> diagnosis with PA. I took 100 mgs for the most of the 1st year and

> >>>

> >> reduced

> >>

> >>> to 75mgs thereafter. Just to give a little background about

> >>>

> >> myself, thats

> >>

> >>> all I take plus I DASH. My BP is well controlled with the two to

> >>>

> >> be under

> >>

> >>> 120/80 most of the time at home and always under 100/60+ at the

> >>>

> >> doctors

> >>

> >>> office.

> >>> Last month, I decided to ask for Aldactone when I was up to renew

> >>>

> >> my

> >>

> >>> prescription so after taking Aldactone for about a month now, here

> >>>

> >> it goes,

> >>

> >>> a summery of the differences I have so far experienced:

> >>>

> >>> *Spironolactone, 75mgs, 25am, 50 pm + DASH*

> >>>

> >>> *Aldactone, 75mgs, 25 am, 50 pm + DASH*

> >>>

> >>> costs $5.00 for the bottle of pills to last a month

> >>>

> >>> additonal $65.00 that my insurance did not cover.

> >>>

> >>> Severe flushing and sweating during the days and at nights

> >>>

> >>> Initially didn't notice much difference-by 2nd week sweating was

> >>>

> >> gone 80-90%

> >>

> >>> Occasional heart palpitations

> >>>

> >>> Initially didn't notice much difference - Much less after the 2nd

> >>>

> >> week and

> >>

> >>> after a month its almost gone

> >>>

> >>> Severe muscle aches specially in my calves during nights and

> >>>

> >> mornings

> >>

> >>> muscle aches appear to be reduced-definitely no more in my calves

> >>>

> >>> - didn't experience this on spiro

> >>>

> >>> Wake up in mornings with numb little finger in my right hand - I

> >>>

> >> mean its

> >>

> >>> really numb with no feeling what so ever for a while

> >>>

> >>> -

> >>>

> >>> My right toes and foot go numb when I walk fast- should I be

> >>>

> >> concerned or

> >>

> >>> is this a K thing?

> >>>

> >>> Chest feeling like its being ripped apart into shreds before a

> >>>

> >> sweating

> >>

> >>> episode

> >>>

> >>> I no longer have this feeling - hooray

> >>>

> >>> Occasional feeling of mild nausea(I would say a 1-2 on a scale of

> >>>

> >> 0 to

> >>

> >>> 10)

> >>>

> >>> no more nausea :-)

> >>>

> >>> BP well controlled under 120/80 or lower

> >>>

> >>> BP is well controlled under 120/80 or lower

> >>>

> >>> occasional bouts of low salt episodes and have to do quick salt

> >>>

> >> loading to

> >>

> >>> feel better otherwise can not function or think mentally -- every

> >>>

> >> few days

> >>

> >>> Have not experienced any low salt episodes(days) in the past month

> >>>

> >> and have

> >>

> >>> maintained a low salt diet

> >>>

> >>> Feeling tired often

> >>>

> >>> pain in breasts and increased size

> >>>

> >>> certainly the pain is gone and I have lost a little though not

> >>>

> >> measurably on

> >>

> >>> the scale- my tops feel slightly looser

> >>>

> >>> My rings fit in my fingers tighter

> >>>

> >>> My rings are rather loose and come right off my fingers, so

> >>>

> >> obviously some

> >>

> >>> kind of less swelling

> >>>

> >>> Whats interesting is that last week I was traveling and forgot to

> >>>

> >> take the

> >>

> >>> Aldactone with me. But no worries, because I had a bottle of extra

> >>>

> >> Spiro

> >>

> >>> with me which I took. After the 2nd day all the side effects, in

> >>>

> >> particular

> >>

> >>> the weired feeling in my chest and the flushing came back.

> >>>

> >> Thankfully I

> >>

> >>> only took it for 4 days and am now back on Aldactone. Now the

> >>>

> >> challenge

> >>

> >>> remains to convince my doctor to write a prescription for

> >>>

> >> Aldactone instead

> >>

> >>> of spiro so the insurance can cover it. Otherwise I think I have

> >>>

> >> to invest

> >>

> >>> in Aldactone by paying $65 each month. The other challenge that

> >>>

> >> remains is

> >>

> >>> to do a blood test and get a measurement of the Aldosterone, Renin

> >>>

> >> and my K.

> >>

> >>> Once I do that I will keep you all posted but it will be a while

> >>>

> >> before I am

> >>

> >>> up for my next blood work.

> >>>

> >>> By the way, I have checked the chemical compounds of the two on-

> >>>

> >> line and

> >>

> >>> they both appear to be the same with minor differences in

> >>>

> >> ingredients.(I am

> >>

> >>> not a chemistry kind of a person so I leave this to some of you

> >>>

> >> experts in

> >>

> >>> analyzing the chemical compounds of the two

> >>>

> >>> Happy New Year to all of you,

> >>>

> >>> Farah

> >>>

>

January 1, 2008

If you mother can DASH she will help her DM.

Are you of Indian (Asian) heritage. I have just advanced a Ho that the

major health problems in Indians is a result of their history or starvation and

salt deficiency. I think I sent a copy to everyone about a year ago. I just

gave a talk in Hyderabad and Agra and Delhi on it.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD

Senior Consultant to Shared Care Research and Consulting, Inc.

(sharedcareinc.com)

Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine and Epidemiology Med. Col. WI

Clinical Professor of Nursing, Univ. of WI, Milwaukee

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

**************************************

See AOL's top rated recipes

(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

January 1, 2008

Please always do a pubmed search on topic like this first. eg. most recent

article on cinnamon.

Med Oral Patol Oral Cir Bucal.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD

Senior Consultant to Shared Care Research and Consulting, Inc.

(sharedcareinc.com)

Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine and Epidemiology Med. Col. WI

Clinical Professor of Nursing, Univ. of WI, Milwaukee

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

2007 Oct 1;12(6):E440-4. Links

Cinnamon products as a possible etiologic factor in orofacial granulomatosis.

Endo H, Rees TD.

Department of Periodontology, Nihon University, School of Dentistry at

Matsudo, Chiba, Japan. endo.hiroyasu@....

OBJECTIVES: It has been reported that clinical changes due to

hypersensitivity reactions to various foods, preservatives, and oral hygiene

products may be

consistent with the characteristic signs of orofacial granulomatosis (OFG).

The objective of this study was to examine 37 well-documented cases of

cinnamon-induced contact stomatitis for clinical and histological features

consistent

with a diagnosis of OFG. STUDY DESIGN: We reviewed the records of the 37 cases

to screen them for the clinical and histopathologic features of OFG. RESULTS:

Twelve patients showed clinical characteristics of OFG. The most commonly

affected site was the gingiva. Focal non-caseating, epitheloid granulomas were

observed in four histologic specimens. Multinucleated giant cells were observed

in an additional four cases. CONCLUSIONS: Although OFG may have multiple

etiologies, it is clear that, in some instances, a hypersensitivity reaction to

cinnamon products can elicit lesions consistent with OFG.

J Med Assoc Thai. 2006 Sep;89 Suppl 3:S200-5.

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