Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Yona Have you done " Pete's Assessment " on him. Your description sounds like you're gonna find a lot of hi-beta activity, and/or beta (hibeta) where is shouldn't be. I'd also be interested in Mom's pregnancy, and his early development years. My " guessasessment " is that the you are absolutely right the ADHD-like behavior is not pure ADHD, but rather masking an underlying problem, or not the root cause of his behavior. If you want to train before doing the assessment, you might start at T3/T4 inhibit theta, reward SMR might be too high and you might try stepping it down. It would be what Pete refers to as Tone training. Keep us posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Yona, Has he been tested for any learning disabilities? Is he manipulative at home? Have you tried T3/T4/A2, reward 12- 15, and keep lowering reward until he's not " complaining" Just curious-my son was like that and this is what helped him Marsha yona fisher wrote: i am working with a 10 year old boy who carries an adhd diagnosis, but does not realy fit the profile from my point of view. he has difficulty at school with tests and assignments, mostly because he fills his time with avoidance behaviors (bathroom breaks, pencil sharpening, drinks, etc). he has the lowest frustration tolerance of any child i have ever seen. if he perceives a task to be the least bit challenging he launches into avoidance mode. this is his most prominent and consistent characteristic. during neurofeedback, he coughs, yawns, fidgets, states he's tired and needs to go home to sleep, etc. often he pulls his own hair. i have recently discovered that allowing him to look at a book in his lap seems to calm/distract him and he gets more consistent feedback. he is very negative, frequently making statements such as "my life is awful, i hate my life" or "everybody hates me." his doctor has put him on prozac, and that combined with neurofeedback has seemed to cheer him up a bit, but he still seems anxious. initial treatment was at F3, which did improve his mood. then a change to C4 in an attempt to bring down some anxiety, without success. this seems to have made things worse, as he became negative again. i have switched back to F3 but have the nagging feeling i am missing something. any ideas from anyone?? i have seen lots of children and adults, but never had someone who simply didn't seem to respond (although i realize it happens...) thanks for your time, yona fisher, ms _____________________________________________________________ Get Free Web Based Email @ NeuroNet ---> http://www.neuronet.com _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@... w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Dear Yona & Marsha, I hate to see children with meds, but I hate more to see children bad medicated. If he is in Prozac he must be better , how is his dose? How long has he been taking Prozac until now? Meds are like surgery, better not to have surgery, but If you have to do this, do it well. One of the benefits of medication in children to protect them from what I call, the "disease of the disease". And that is as times goes by....he self imprint this "Selfimages in his brain" : "..frequently making statements such as "my life is awful, i hate my life" or "everybody hates me..." "..he has difficulty at school with tests and assignments, mostly because he fills his time with avoidance behaviors (bathroom breaks, pencil sharpening, drinks, etc)...." So how long are the Dr responsible for his meds are planing to be on Prozac and on this ? "..frequently making statements such as "my life is awful, i hate my life" or "everybody hates me..." "..he has difficulty at school with tests and assignments, mostly because he fills his time with avoidance behaviors (bathroom breaks, pencil sharpening, drinks, etc)...." Warm regards -- Re: 10 year old boy Yona,Has he been tested for any learning disabilities? Is he manipulative at home?Have you tried T3/T4/A2, reward 12- 15, and keep lowering reward until he's not " complaining"Just curious-my son was like that and this is what helped himMarsha yona fisher wrote: i am working with a 10 year old boy who carries an adhd diagnosis, but does not realy fit the profile from my point of view.he has the lowest frustration tolerance of any child i have ever seen. if he perceives a task to be the least bit challenging he launches into avoidance mode. this is his most prominent and consistent characteristic.during neurofeedback, he coughs, yawns, fidgets, states he's tired and needs to go home to sleep, etc. often he pulls his own hair. i have recently discovered that allowing him to look at a book in his lap seems to calm/distract him and he gets more consistent feedback.he is very negative, frequently making statements such as "my life is awful, i hate my life" or "everybody hates me."his doctor has put him on prozac, and that combined with neurofeedback has seemed to cheer him up a bit, but he still seems anxious. initial treatment was at F3, which did improve his mood. then a change to C4 in an attempt to bring down some anxiety, without success. this seems to have made things worse, as he became negative again. i have switched back to F3 but have the nagging feeling i am missing something.any ideas from anyone??i have seen lots of children and adults, but never had someone who simply didn't seem to respond (although i realize it happens...)thanks for your time,yona fisher, ms_____________________________________________________________Get Free Web Based Email @ NeuroNet ---> http://www.neuronet.com_____________________________________________________________Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@... w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2003 Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 hi marie and daniel, thanks for the responses. yes, this child is somewhat asperger's like, he has some social maturity delays and often resorts to very immature behavior (like having small toys talk to each other, instead of talking to the people around him.) the school has tested for autism, and related issues. they feel he is average intelligence, and very stubborn - he refuses to do what he is capable of. (he does have an older brother who has been diagnosed with mild autism...i have not met him so i don't know exactly what this means) i understand the school's attitude and frustration with him. i am trying to take two steps back and figure out why he would be behaving this way. as for the assessment, i have procomp equipment, so i can't use daniel's assessment per se. however, he has overwhelming amounts of delts and theta frontally both left and right. i had not thought to try temporal training, but i will check for beta temporally when i see him, and try a training session to see what results we get. thanks for your thoughts, yona fisher > >Does this child have any sensory integration issues, fine motor skills >problems or social skills delay? He has a few Asperger's traits. > >Marie > >--- > >________________________________________________________________________ >________________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________ >________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:47:11 -0000 > From: " Key " <danielkey@...> >Subject: Re: 10 year old boy > > >Yona > >Have you done " Pete's Assessment " on him. Your description sounds >like you're gonna find a lot of hi-beta activity, and/or beta >(hibeta) where is shouldn't be. I'd also be interested in Mom's >pregnancy, and his early development years. My " guessasessment " is >that the you are absolutely right the ADHD-like behavior is not pure >ADHD, but rather masking an underlying problem, or not the root cause >of his behavior. If you want to train before doing the assessment, >you might start at T3/T4 inhibit theta, reward SMR might be too high >and you might try stepping it down. It would be what Pete refers to >as Tone training. >Keep us posted > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________ Get Free Web Based Email @ NeuroNet ---> http://www.neuronet.com _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@... w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2003 Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 Since he is saying everyone hates him, I wonder what his home situation really is. Foxx > > i understand the school's attitude and frustration with him. i am trying to take two steps back and figure out why he would be behaving this way. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2003 Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 Dear Fox GOOD POINT !!! Last night after I post my mail, I got this children in my mind, while trying to sleep and just thought that I had missed to ask that issue. Really good you question, MAIN QUESTION, otherwise we are working on the last link of the suffering chain. What is going on in his home to produce this result? = ".... my life is awful, I hate my life" or "everybody hates me..." It would be very important if we include this info in the mails. We are so concentrated and place the focus on brainwaves, thresholds and 10/20 sites & protocols, that we forgot there is a human being there! Sometimes we cant believe what a children have to undergo. I have seen a child of 5 years old with 50 old sore cigarette burning...done from his father! Of course he had a " very bad bahaviour". Fortunatelly! I have posted this but I will repeat, ¿How many of the Therapist , NFK trainers, Counseling people, Shrinks & Psychologist, have taken the time to read The Universal Declaration of Children Rights? As I have asked some privately...very few. And is really of Absolute Importance. It may change our minds in lot of issues and make our Therapeutic actions & decisions faster and more accurate. Re: Re:10 year old boy Since he is saying everyone hates him, I wonder what his home situationreally is.Foxx>> i understand the school's attitude and frustration with him. i am tryingto take two steps back and figure out why he would be behaving this way.>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2003 Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 wow - i am glad to see this generating a virtual conversation, it is what i hoped. this boy has a professional father and a stay at home mom. they live in an upscale community. he has never made any commments about his family in a negative way. he has one older brother and one older sister, one younger. the family vacations together often, and he seems to like these outings. they seem very busy, but have made time to bring him to me twice a week. if asked what he likes to do, he says " nothing " and if asked what he likes about himself or what he's good at, he says " nothing. " in fact, some of his homework has been to come up with things he likes about himself - he said: " i'm good at playing with legos " etc. he does not play on a sports team, or get involved with special projects/clubs at school. he seems to spend alot of his spare time watching tv or playing with toys - legos, or the latest fads such as " tech deck dudes " etc. one day he was playing with a dinosaur and said " this is the raptor that is going to eat the smart kid who's teasing him. " most of his upset seems to surround school failures, or " having to do stuff " like coming to see me! if he could, he would just play, sleep and watch tv. his parents have to persuade (ignore his stated wishes) to get him to do anything else. sometimes he talks about himself in the third person " 'davey' isn't very good at this " or " 'davey' doesn't like school... " as for the doctor, i don't know how long they intend to keep him on prozac. my guess is indefinetely. he was on concerta 1st, then switched to prozac. i had done 20 sessions at F3 ( reward 13-18 Hz) and mom noted improvement in 19 areas on the conner's rating scale. i thought - great, we have progress. then she said they switched to prozac and now i have no way of knowing which was responsible for the change... i think that covers all your questions. let me know what you think. yona --- wrote: > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2003 Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 Hi Yona "..as for the doctor, i don't know how long they intend to keep him on prozac.." Here is not the time span he is recieven the Prozac, not the dose in mg of fluoxetine he is taking, Best Re:10 year old boy wow - i am glad to see this generating a virtual conversation, it is what i hoped.this boy has a professional father and a stay at home mom. they live in an upscale community. he has never made any commments about his family in a negative way. he has one older brother and one older sister, one younger. the family vacations together often, and he seems to like these outings. they seem very busy, but have made time to bring him to me twice a week.if asked what he likes to do, he says "nothing" and if asked what he likes about himself or what he's good at, he says "nothing." in fact, some of his homework has been to come up with things he likes about himself - he said: "i'm good at playing with legos" etc. he does not play on a sports team, or get involved with special projects/clubs at school. he seems to spend alot of his spare time watching tv or playing with toys - legos, or the latest fads such as "tech deck dudes" etc.one day he was playing with a dinosaur and said "this is the raptor that is going to eat the smart kid who's teasing him." most of his upset seems to surround school failures, or "having to do stuff" like coming to see me! if he could, he would just play, sleep and watch tv. his parents have to persuade (ignore his stated wishes) to get him to do anything else.sometimes he talks about himself in the third person "'davey' isn't very good at this" or "'davey' doesn't like school..."as for the doctor, i don't know how long they intend to keep him on prozac. my guess is indefinetely. he was on concerta 1st, then switched to prozac. i had done 20 sessions at F3 ( reward 13-18 Hz) and mom noted improvement in 19 areas on the conner's rating scale. i thought - great, we have progress. then she said they switched to prozac and now i have no way of knowing which was responsible for the change...i think that covers all your questions. let me know what you think.yona--- wrote:> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2003 Report Share Posted March 17, 2003 eduardo, the dose of prozac is 20 mg/day (one dose). no history of head injury and no signs of depression apart from school issues, according to his mother. any thoughts? yona _____________________________________________________________ Get Free Web Based Email @ NeuroNet ---> http://www.neuronet.com _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@... w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2003 Report Share Posted March 17, 2003 HI Yona, Yes , which is the weight of the children? I ask you this because, If he has to take it , you may have to increase the dose to the maximum possible for his age. As you describe his situation , if he has been taken this does for 2 month and have this behavior, that level is useless. So or you increase of switch to other Meds. The only good thing that have MEds is if they produce an real change. I am tired of seen so many people taking meds, but being under therapeutic level, so this meds are useless.Better not to take them. Tell me his weight and for how long is he taking it. You cant change an ATD before 2 month. Warm regards QDS Subscribe: QeegDataSwitch-subscribe QDS Website: Qeeg for Small EGG 2 Channel Devices http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/2133/QeegDataSwitch.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2003 Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 It sounds very much like this client has a reversal problem, at least front/back and perhaps left/right frontally as well. What you are seeing as ADD is likely secondary to the mood issues. Try training for the reversal first (which would change alpha levels and improve serotonin as well) and you may see a much more compliant client as well. Pete -- 10 year old boy eduardo, the dose of prozac is 20 mg/day (one dose). no history of head injury and no signs of depression apart from school issues, according to his mother. any thoughts? yona _____________________________________________________________ Get Free Web Based Email @ NeuroNet ---> http://www.neuronet.com _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@... w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.