Guest guest Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Dave, Assuming you made a typo when you wrote P3 instead of P4, then it sounds like you are training up the ratio of F3 beta divided by P4 beta, trying to get it above 1.0. I like that idea very much. I have previously focused on training up Beta at F3 and training up alpha at P4 (which would cause beta to decrease), but this makes a lot of sense. I've used the WaveRider with two Balance clients to train something similar (I'm ashamed to admit that I'm WAY behind the curve on BMScope), but there I train the percent of Beta/Total EEG up at F3 in one channel and the percent down at P4 in the other channel. That works fairly well, but your solution gives the client a single number on which to focus! I'm sure others on the list will be able to help with the technical issues relating to BMScope. Pete F/B Beta Balance Dear all: Boy as I start reviewing some of the kids and adults I am working with...many with somewhat challenging family situations...I am finding that many of them have F/B beta balance issues indicated by the spreadsheet. I too have them and didn't notice untill after the last training with Pete. I did a reassessment of my self just to check left/right and front/back balance issues and found that parietally I have more beta than frontally. Not a ton but more than the about 10% variance that the spread sheet allows before making a call. I have been playing then with a couple of ways to work with this. I am a major fan of BMscope because of the ratios you can set up and am trying the following ratio changing script for this: dim first first = 1 plot (l.beta/r.beta)*20 bwhite if (l.beta/r.beta)*20 > ulimit then play c:/brainm/morse.wav I initally am enjoying a sense of calm in this kind of training and am using a pleasant tone I got off the internet to just kind of " thrum " when I am in above the ulimit. Occassionally the script stops and tells me I have a divide by 0 error and I have to stop and restart. I don't get this do you? I am setting up l.beta at F3 and R beta at P3 since I only have 2 channels to work with so I can't sum like the spread sheet does. But I think it is accurate to say that left side activation in general is good for balance issues so I am using opposing sides. I run the scrip over any standard 2 channel set up with standard beta frequency bands on each channel. It obviously doesen't require any fancy band set up like a squash. I would welcome any of your comments. I still think M probably is a genius but I don't think that anymore only just because he can set up BMscope scripts...now I can do it! (I think) I only think he is a genius now because he made those awsome BMPro animations and he has so many good ideas that don't cost much.... Joking aside if any of you who have not used BMscope successfully yet want to ask questions please do. I would love to save anybody the learning curve I had... Also the newest version of BMscope allows you to change the ulimit and llimit on the fly without stopping the program! What an improvement. Best wishes, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Pete, Yes that was a typo. Thanks, Dave > Dave, > > Assuming you made a typo when you wrote P3 instead of P4, then it sounds > like you are training up the ratio of F3 beta divided by P4 beta, trying to > get it above 1.0. I like that idea very much. I have previously focused on > training up Beta at F3 and training up alpha at P4 (which would cause beta > to decrease), but this makes a lot of sense. > > I've used the WaveRider with two Balance clients to train something similar > (I'm ashamed to admit that I'm WAY behind the curve on BMScope), but there I > train the percent of Beta/Total EEG up at F3 in one channel and the percent > down at P4 in the other channel. That works fairly well, but your solution > gives the client a single number on which to focus! > > I'm sure others on the list will be able to help with the technical issues > relating to BMScope. > > Pete > F/B Beta Balance > > > Dear all: > > Boy as I start reviewing some of the kids and adults I am working > with...many with somewhat challenging family situations...I am > finding that many of them have F/B beta balance issues indicated by > the spreadsheet. I too have them and didn't notice untill after the > last training with Pete. > > I did a reassessment of my self just to check left/right and > front/back balance issues and found that parietally I have more beta > than frontally. Not a ton but more than the about 10% variance that > the spread sheet allows before making a call. > > I have been playing then with a couple of ways to work with this. I > am a major fan of BMscope because of the ratios you can set up and > am trying the following ratio changing script for this: > > > > > dim first > > first = 1 > > plot (l.beta/r.beta)*20 bwhite > > if (l.beta/r.beta)*20 > ulimit then play c:/brainm/morse.wav > > > > > I initally am enjoying a sense of calm in this kind of training and > am using a pleasant tone I got off the internet to just kind > of " thrum " when I am in above the ulimit. > > Occassionally the script stops and tells me I have a divide by 0 > error and I have to stop and restart. I don't get this do you? > > I am setting up l.beta at F3 and R beta at P3 since I only have 2 > channels to work with so I can't sum like the spread sheet does. But > I think it is accurate to say that left side activation in general > is good for balance issues so I am using opposing sides. > > I run the scrip over any standard 2 channel set up with standard > beta frequency bands on each channel. It obviously doesen't require > any fancy band set up like a squash. > > I would welcome any of your comments. > > I still think M probably is a genius but I don't think that > anymore only just because he can set up BMscope scripts...now I can > do it! (I think) I only think he is a genius now because he made > those awsome BMPro animations and he has so many good ideas that > don't cost much.... > > Joking aside if any of you who have not used BMscope successfully > yet want to ask questions please do. I would love to save anybody > the learning curve I had... > > Also the newest version of BMscope allows you to change the ulimit > and llimit on the fly without stopping the program! What an > improvement. > > Best wishes, > > Dave > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Dave the divide by 0 error occurs if for some reason r.beta=0 I know this should not happen but it does occasionally, maybe a wiggle of some electrical interference. to solve this just make the following modification. change the ratio to ((l.beta/(r.beta+2))*20 each time it occurs in teh script. At 3:59 AM +0000 1/7/03, Kempston <ddlk@...> wrote: >Dear all: > >Boy as I start reviewing some of the kids and adults I am working >with...many with somewhat challenging family situations...I am >finding that many of them have F/B beta balance issues indicated by >the spreadsheet. I too have them and didn't notice untill after the >last training with Pete. > >I did a reassessment of my self just to check left/right and >front/back balance issues and found that parietally I have more beta >than frontally. Not a ton but more than the about 10% variance that >the spread sheet allows before making a call. > >I have been playing then with a couple of ways to work with this. I >am a major fan of BMscope because of the ratios you can set up and >am trying the following ratio changing script for this: > > > > >dim first > >first = 1 > >plot (l.beta/r.beta)*20 bwhite > >if (l.beta/r.beta)*20 > ulimit then play c:/brainm/morse.wav > > > > >I initally am enjoying a sense of calm in this kind of training and >am using a pleasant tone I got off the internet to just kind >of " thrum " when I am in above the ulimit. > >Occassionally the script stops and tells me I have a divide by 0 >error and I have to stop and restart. I don't get this do you? > >I am setting up l.beta at F3 and R beta at P3 since I only have 2 >channels to work with so I can't sum like the spread sheet does. But >I think it is accurate to say that left side activation in general >is good for balance issues so I am using opposing sides. > >I run the scrip over any standard 2 channel set up with standard >beta frequency bands on each channel. It obviously doesen't require >any fancy band set up like a squash. > >I would welcome any of your comments. > >I still think M probably is a genius but I don't think that >anymore only just because he can set up BMscope scripts...now I can >do it! (I think) I only think he is a genius now because he made >those awsome BMPro animations and he has so many good ideas that >don't cost much.... > >Joking aside if any of you who have not used BMscope successfully >yet want to ask questions please do. I would love to save anybody >the learning curve I had... > >Also the newest version of BMscope allows you to change the ulimit >and llimit on the fly without stopping the program! What an >improvement. > >Best wishes, > >Dave > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Dave, I have used a ratio similar to the one you described for left right balance but never even thought about using it for front/back. i used it mostly for kids with alpha or theta imbalance. Two kids in particular had very large differences and did not get rewards for when the ratio>1 was rewarded. I used >upper limit and gradually shaped the response up until it was more balanced. I have had several email conversations with Bob Bussey about the sound handling on the new scope program, the one he calls the " service pack " . Several clients (and me quite frankly) did not like the the way the sounds on the newer versions of scope came more rapidly and did not play to completion if they were a longer sound. The " is busy " variable was put in the newest release to allow sound to be handled in a more flexible manner. you can now have the sounds repeat very rapidly or have longer sounds ( anyting over about .15 seconds) play through to completion. This also allows for playing a long continous tone .wav or .mid if the limits are being met. I can send you a script fragment that illustrates that if you would like. I was reading the " genius " paragraph in your email and burst out laughing, woke up my wife! I am glad you like the work I have done, it is a labor of love. The NFB work I do has really energized me and I love working up new and different ideas. I would echo your comments about the learning curve on the BMScope scripting. I know of severa people who have started writin scripts by mdoifying ones I wrote to suit their own purposes. I too would glad to lend assistance to anyone wanting to write their own scripts. ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 >Dave: >[snip] >I have been playing then with a couple of ways to work with this. I >am a major fan of BMscope because of the ratios you can set up and >am trying the following ratio changing script for this: > the dim first and first=1 are not needed in this script. They can be removed. dividing by 0 is a cardinal mathematical sin and computers always throw up when we try to do it. I must admit to never considering the possibility of a BMr value being exactly 0 so will update BMscope to handle it without the error. In the mean time the problem can be worked around thusly: if r.beta=0 goto DoNotDivide plot (i.beta/r.beta)*20 bwhite if (l.beta/r.beta)*20 > ulimit then play c:/brainm/morse.wav DoNotDivide: Best regards, Bob Bussey >dim first > >first = 1 > >plot (l.beta/r.beta)*20 bwhite > >if (l.beta/r.beta)*20 > ulimit then play c:/brainm/morse.wav > [snip] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 >The author understands most of the BMscope users are not programmers and >is willing to help out also. Best regards, Bob Bussey >[snip] > >I would echo your comments about the learning curve on the BMScope >scripting. I know of severa people who have started writin scripts >by mdoifying ones I wrote to suit their own purposes. I too would >glad to lend assistance to anyone wanting to write their own scripts. > > [snip] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Occasionally the beta in the divisor of your ration will hit zero. I fix this by if beta<>0 then . . . . Foxx > > Occassionally the script stops and tells me I have a divide by 0 > error and I have to stop and restart. I don't get this do you? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Pete & Group: I have been following this thread with some interest. As a result, I went back through Pete's early discussion about changing category names and creating Balance and Tone. I realized that I had a good handle on Tone, but balance left me a little cold. Could we discuss exactly, Pete, what you mean by Balance and what symptoms point toward those issues? It is impossible for me to see in the new checklist, which questions relate to balance. Thanks a lot! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 , I was reading this e-mail and came across your unauthorized use of the term " The Learning Curve " , which, as you know, is the registered and trademarked name of my company. You will be hearing from my attorney!! (Sorry, sometimes I just miss the occasional flame-out in the midst of all this polite and productive dialog...) Pete Re: F/B Beta Balance Dave, I would echo your comments about the learning curve on the BMScope scripting --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 Mark, If you look on the Process tab (at the bottom of the worksheet), you'll see each of the questions with a letter beside it indicating which category it is in. Also, your list of top 20 items on the report page should also have the category listed beside it. That will give you some sense of the symptoms that at least currently I feel are most indicative of each. Balance and Tone both represent ongoing energy drains in the brain: Tone is sub-cortical, Balance is cortical. In Balance problems we generally see beta imbalances with more beta back than front or more beta right than left in the prefrontal area. Both of these have lasting effects on mood: front/back imbalance tends to result in anxiety and a kind of driven quality; left/right imbalance tends to result in a kind of negative worldview, depressive quality. Remember that, if you have one of these category problems fairly significant in a client, you need to deal with it first, even though there are likely to be Filtering or Processing symptoms as well. Fixing the underlying issue tends to resolve or simplify resolution of the higher-level problems. Pete RE: F/B Beta Balance Pete & Group: I have been following this thread with some interest. As a result, I went back through Pete's early discussion about changing category names and creating Balance and Tone. I realized that I had a good handle on Tone, but balance left me a little cold. Could we discuss exactly, Pete, what you mean by Balance and what symptoms point toward those issues? It is impossible for me to see in the new checklist, which questions relate to balance. Thanks a lot! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 Pete, For your information I have submitted a preliminary trademark for the phrase " You will be hearing from my attorney " . This includes but is not limited to the words in this order, and aslo includes uses in italics, upper and lower case, spoken or written in the am or pm. It can also be seen to include the words in any order such as but not limited to " You attorney will hearing from my be " or " will be hearing my You attorney from " . My financial advisor suggests I may be able to retire on this one. You will be hearing from my attorney. oops I owe myself $100. No actually I said it in response to you so you owe me. $$$$$$$$$ At 5:57 AM -0500 1/8/03, Van Deusen wrote: >, > >I was reading this e-mail and came across your unauthorized use of the term > " The Learning Curve " , which, as you know, is the registered and trademarked >name of my company. You will be hearing from my attorney!! > >(Sorry, sometimes I just miss the occasional flame-out in the midst of all >this polite and productive dialog...) > >Pete > Re: F/B Beta Balance > > > Dave, > > I would echo your comments about the learning curve on the BMScope > scripting > > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/02 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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