Re: Inhibit the 7Hz

[Guest guest]

Rob, From what I have read and heard at trainings, the 6.5-7.5 hz

range is important to several cognitive tasks and there are some

potential shortcomings to training it down. Marvin Sams talks about

this a great deal, a paper of his is in the archives at

www.snr-jnt.org. It is quite long but has a lot of good information

in it.

At 3:32 PM +0000 12/9/02, robc11374 <ecummings@...> wrote:

>Hello Pete,

>

>I was looking at you assessments and noticed that you've increased

>Theta up to 8Hz. However, I recall in your March practicum in Ohio

>that you don't want to inhibit the 7Hz. Is the Theta setting just for

>the assessment or is it also used for training as well?

>

>Thanks,

>Rob

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, , I thought my memory hadn't abandoned me. I thought

with all this talk about squash protocols things may have changed. So

if one is doing a squash protocol does that mean you `notch-out' the

7Hz range?

I went to the sight you listed and did a search on Marvin Sams, but

didn't see the article you mention. Do you know the name of it?

Thanks,

Rob

> >Hello Pete,

> >

> >I was looking at you assessments and noticed that you've increased

> >Theta up to 8Hz. However, I recall in your March practicum in Ohio

> >that you don't want to inhibit the 7Hz. Is the Theta setting just

for

> >the assessment or is it also used for training as well?

> >

> >Thanks,

> >Rob

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Although 7 Hz (called frontal midline theta or FMT) does seem to be related

to memory function and recall, the issue with training it down would be more

of a concern at Fz, Afz or FCz. If you are training at the 3 or 4 sites

over the left or right hemispheres, it should not make much difference.

I do use 8Hz as a high end of theta in the assessment, and I do usually

train lower frequencies (2.5-6.5 as you mentioned) when I am working with a

client, but that is largely to pick up the slow theta and high delta.

Pete

Re: Inhibit the 7Hz

Thanks, , I thought my memory hadn't abandoned me. I thought

with all this talk about squash protocols things may have changed. So

if one is doing a squash protocol does that mean you `notch-out' the

7Hz range?

I went to the sight you listed and did a search on Marvin Sams, but

didn't see the article you mention. Do you know the name of it?

Thanks,

Rob

> >Hello Pete,

> >

> >I was looking at you assessments and noticed that you've increased

> >Theta up to 8Hz. However, I recall in your March practicum in Ohio

> >that you don't want to inhibit the 7Hz. Is the Theta setting just

for

> >the assessment or is it also used for training as well?

> >

> >Thanks,

> >Rob

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I believe the paper in question by Marvin Sams is:

Mathematically Derived Frequency Correlates in Cerebral Function: Theoretical

and Clinical Implications for Neurofeedback Training (whew!)

It ain't as stuffy as it sounds. It's a good read.

Find it at: http://www.greatbrain.com/mathematics.html

HH

Re: Inhibit the 7Hz

Thanks, , I thought my memory hadn't abandoned me. I thought

with all this talk about squash protocols things may have changed. So

if one is doing a squash protocol does that mean you `notch-out' the

7Hz range?

I went to the sight you listed and did a search on Marvin Sams, but

didn't see the article you mention. Do you know the name of it?

Thanks,

Rob

> >Hello Pete,

> >

> >I was looking at you assessments and noticed that you've increased

> >Theta up to 8Hz. However, I recall in your March practicum in Ohio

> >that you don't want to inhibit the 7Hz. Is the Theta setting just

for

> >the assessment or is it also used for training as well?

> >

> >Thanks,

> >Rob

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/9/02 5:36:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,

gmartin@... writes:

> The way it is set

> up is that it reads from the BMr software delta theta alpha and

> hibeta. I set delta 2-6, theta 8-12(or 11), alpha 22-32, and

> hibeta 32-36. That leaves the traditional lobeta and beta

> frequencies free to do their own thing.

Do you train all those frequencies down? And always leave beta/smr to do as

it pleases?

Thanks,

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Rob,

Some folks squash the whole band, and it does seem to be effective.

The squash will, as a general rule, bring down the highest peaks

first and results in a " leveling " of the spectrum as seen on the

brainmirror. if teh 6-8 hz is not peaking the chances it will be

squahsed are low. The things I have read refer to teh activity more

in teh central frontal areas so training at other locations may not

be such an issue. I used to do a whole spectrum 3-38hz squash with

the BAPro until I got my hands on the BMScope and learned how to use

it. I got very good results that way. I occasionally do the same

thing now but not as often. The " windowed squash " , as Long

called it, notches (windows) off several different frequencies and

can be easily modified to suit your needs. I window it a little

different depending on the results of assessment. The way it is set

up is that it reads from the BMr software delta theta alpha and

hibeta. I set delta 2-6, theta 8-12(or 11), alpha 22-32, and

hibeta 32-36. That leaves the traditional lobeta and beta

frequencies free to do their own thing. Long spent some time

with teh script and found that the rations theta/smr on the rightr

and theat/beta on the left changed at times more reliabley than with

a more traditional approach.

I'll try find a reference to the paper for you.

At 8:56 PM +0000 12/9/02, robc11374 <ecummings@...> wrote:

>Thanks, , I thought my memory hadn't abandoned me. I thought

>with all this talk about squash protocols things may have changed. So

>if one is doing a squash protocol does that mean you `notch-out' the

>7Hz range?

>

>I went to the sight you listed and did a search on Marvin Sams, but

>didn't see the article you mention. Do you know the name of it?

>

>Thanks,

>Rob

>

>

>

>> >Hello Pete,

>> >

>> >I was looking at you assessments and noticed that you've increased

>> >Theta up to 8Hz. However, I recall in your March practicum in Ohio

>> >that you don't want to inhibit the 7Hz. Is the Theta setting just

>for

>> >the assessment or is it also used for training as well?

>> >

>> >Thanks,

>> >Rob

>> >

>> >

>> >

[Guest guest]

Yes, I actually came across this when I was perusing the brainm

group. It was given in regard to gama training. It appears that

Marvin Sams believes strongly in training 40Hz.

Rob

> > >Hello Pete,

> > >

> > >I was looking at you assessments and noticed that you've

increased

> > >Theta up to 8Hz. However, I recall in your March practicum in

Ohio

> > >that you don't want to inhibit the 7Hz. Is the Theta setting

just

> for

> > >the assessment or is it also used for training as well?

> > >

> > >Thanks,

> > >Rob

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Thanks, for the info, .

Rob

> >> >Hello Pete,

> >> >

> >> >I was looking at you assessments and noticed that you've

increased

> >> >Theta up to 8Hz. However, I recall in your March practicum in

Ohio

> >> >that you don't want to inhibit the 7Hz. Is the Theta setting

just

> >for

> >> >the assessment or is it also used for training as well?

> >> >

> >> >Thanks,

> >> >Rob

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

[Guest guest]

I find myself wondering if the concern over frontal midline theta in theta

reduction protocols is really necessary. As far as I can tell, nobody has so far

documented a case of memory impairment following frontal or midline theta down

training, although Jay Gunkelman says that he has heard about a few reports of

this. Lubar and other very experienced clinicians say that they have never

had this problem with theta reduction. Although frontal midline theta supposedly

appears intermitantly during tasks requiring active mental work or with episodic

recall, Lubar states that has observed frontal midline theta, but generally

during math calculations. And, Lubar also states: " However haveing worked with

several thousand cases of ADD/HD since the 1970s I do not recall any cases where

suppression of 4-8 or 6-10hz at either FZ, CZ, or PZ or sequential FCZ-CPZ has

had a negative effect on memory or any other cognitive function. However in our

NFB training we use NFB combined with reading, listenin, and by itself but not

during calculation, so maybe we did not effect the FMT. "

Margaret Ayers, who primarily focuses on reducing theta amplitudes, also has

reported to me that she has never observed any memory problems with frontal

inhibition of 4-7 Hz theta.

Neidermeyer reports that whereas others have reported about frontal midline

theta, he has been unable to produce it in his own subjects. My understanding of

his discussion of this issue is that he wonders if frontal midline theta might

actually be related to mild fatigue or boredom...in other words, some mental

drifting away from the task.

Hope these thoughts are useful.........

Fred

Re: Inhibit the 7Hz

Thanks, , I thought my memory hadn't abandoned me. I thought

with all this talk about squash protocols things may have changed. So

if one is doing a squash protocol does that mean you `notch-out' the

7Hz range?

I went to the sight you listed and did a search on Marvin Sams, but

didn't see the article you mention. Do you know the name of it?

Thanks,

Rob

> >Hello Pete,

> >

> >I was looking at you assessments and noticed that you've increased

> >Theta up to 8Hz. However, I recall in your March practicum in Ohio

> >that you don't want to inhibit the 7Hz. Is the Theta setting just

for

> >the assessment or is it also used for training as well?

> >

> >Thanks,

> >Rob

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I read about this idea a few weeks ago after ordering a back issue of

J_SNR. (Vol4, #2). In Clinical Corner there is a discussion of 40 Hz.

band activity and possible link to pre-attentive binding. That got

me thinking that it might be useful for a learning tool, or to

improve memorization. I am actually looking for data regarding

memory and learning, as I have to help my son learn a lot of stuff

for school. Heck, even this old dog, too!

Look up the back issue if you get a chance. It too is worth the read.

Thank you for the link.

Regards,

Bill

> > I believe the paper in question by Marvin Sams is:

> > Mathematically Derived Frequency Correlates in Cerebral Function:

> Theoretical and Clinical Implications for Neurofeedback Training

> (whew!)

> >

> > It ain't as stuffy as it sounds. It's a good read.

> >

> > Find it at: http://www.greatbrain.com/mathematics.html

> >

> > HH

> >

>