Re: Hyperaldosteronism and Secondary Health Impacts

December 30, 2006

Jeff, I had my adrenalectomy on November 3rd and I am noticing a lot of changes as well. I have tons of energy, no more naps, very calm, no brain fog, memory is better, pains are less, hair is growing faster and is healthier, no more late day eye blurriness, hands do not shake anymore, and I could probably list a few other positive notes. I actually have excitement about life where prior to surgery, I was planning on my death because I felt so horrible. I had made all my funeral arrangements, got a living will and power of attorney because I knew I would not live much longer. I feel so blessed. I also am not sure how much of the bad I felt before was due to 11 pills a day for BP alone (and still didn't phase my HT). My lipids are better, my catechols are normal now, and at last check, even my elevated 5-HIAAs were normal (not sure about that one but I'll have it rechecked later). All my blood levels are normal now (CBC, K, liver and kidney functions.....all normal).

So yes, I tend to agree with you that a whole lot of my problems were due to the elevated aldo and I also believe taking a lot of meds doesn't help with our chemistry. I am looking forward to losing some weight and getting active again.

peace out,

Debi in Knoxville

December 30, 2006

In a message dated 12/30/06 1:36:48 PM, moonium@... writes:

So yes, I tend to agree with you that a whole lot of my problems were due to the elevated aldo and I also believe taking a lot of meds doesn't help with our chemistry. I am looking forward to losing some weight and getting active again.

peace out,

Debi in Knoxville

Your story is one classical for PA and a good response. One reason I have spent my life looking for this is pts with difficult HTN.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

December 30, 2006

In a message dated 12/30/06 12:21:57 PM, datawrhsdoc@... writes:

1) Symptoms of Metabolic Syndrome / Insulin Cycle - No longer have

periods of hypoglycemia. Fasting blood sugar is no longer

pre-diabetic. Also, my lipid profile is much improved but needs some

work.

Low K impairs insulin release

2) Sleep apnea - I no longer appear to have it. Without CPAP,

according to my wife, I no longer have sleep-disordered breathing.

I'll be getting a sleep study to confirm, but I'm pretty sure this is

fully resolved.

This would be a great report. Suggest a repeat sleep study after 6 months or so. Keep good records and we will write it up.

3) Anxiety/rages - The intense anxiety and rages from nowhere have

disappeared. I have been able to discontinue psychiatric medications

prescribed to deal with this.

Few have reported this but the data has never been gathered systematically in this area.

4) Lethargy - Tons of energy. I'm actually interested in working out

at the gym. All the other above items resolved before I went back to

the gym.

Classical problem in low K and correction by ADX.

Anybody else have a similar experience or have something to add?

-Jeff

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

December 30, 2006

Debi,

Yep, brain fog gone for me as well. Also, I'm not sure if this is

temporary, but the chronic cystic acne on my chest and back has

cleared up post-surgery. I suspect it's related to change in lipid

chemistry.

I was commenting to my daughter today that I've been feeling grand

(even with a sinus infection -- LOL) since coming home from the

hospital on 12/12. Prior to the surgery, I can't remember feeling

this good for maybe a day or two at a time.

It's rather nice to look forward to the future with excitement rather

than dread what's going to go wrong with my body next! I bet you feel

the same.

Happiest of New Years,

Jeff

>

> Jeff, I had my adrenalectomy on November 3rd and I am noticing a lot

of

> changes as well.

> ....

> Debi in Knoxville

>

December 30, 2006

Your recovery sounds like a miracle to me. I have alot of similar problems, and I am taking 75mg Inspra twice a day to control my blood pressure, but no relief from the other symptoms.

1) I still have Metabolic Syndrome / Insulin Resistance for which I am loosing weight. I am 5'6" and was 196 pounds and am now 173 pounds, but I want to get to 145 pounds to get to my ideal weight. Loosing weight for me is a struggle with lots of hunger feelings, and an up and down process - loose a few pounds, gain a few back, loose a few more pounds etc.

2) I have Sleep Apnea, and I thought loosing weight is the only possible solution. I did not know it had anything to do with hyperaldosteronism.

3) I definitely have anxiety, rage, depression and more. I am taking a psychiatric mediation called Cymbalta 30 mg (duloxetine) but it does not help., and I cannot get off of it.

4) Lethargy - I am always tired and have to take multiple naps each day. I have a hard time getting things done, because I am so tired that I just put them off. I definitely have NO ENERGY at all, and I have to force myself to take walks to exercise.

How did you reverse your hyperaldosteronism problem?

Did you get a tumor removed?

Are you taking any medication?

Did you loose weight?

Did you use a CPAP machine for sleep apnea?

Please explain your situation in more detail.

________________________________________________

Hyperaldosteronism and Secondary Health Impacts

Seems to me that there are many more symptoms of hyperaldosteronismthan appear to be documented clearly in the literature. While curingthe aldo problem is not a cure all (I'm haven't instantly gainedathletic conditioning), in addition to the hypertension I've noticedseveral other major health issues rapidly disappear:1) Symptoms of Metabolic Syndrome / Insulin Cycle - No longer haveperiods of hypoglycemia. Fasting blood sugar is no longerpre-diabetic. Also, my lipid profile is much improved but needs somework.2) Sleep apnea - I no longer appear to have it. Without CPAP,according to my wife, I no longer have sleep-disordered breathing.I'll be getting a sleep study to confirm, but I'm pretty sure this isfully resolved.3) Anxiety/rages - The intense anxiety and rages from nowhere havedisappeared. I have been able to discontinue psychiatric medicationsprescribed to deal with this.4) Lethargy - Tons of energy. I'm actually interested in working outat the gym. All the other above items resolved before I went back tothe gym.Anybody else have a similar experience or have something to add?-Jeff

December 31, 2006

I would like someone to collect these sleep apnea stories in a file and update it as they come in. I think we are on to something here.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

December 31, 2006

Again another thread we need to be gathering data on with an anxiety stories file.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

December 31, 2006

In a message dated 12/31/06 11:02:18 AM, shotzie@... writes:

>

> . He commented that my airway was

> clear except for continued tissue swelling that was probably edema

from

> the PA. Interestingly, I've haven't been able to breath through my

> right nostril for years...at least until after the adrenalectomy.

>

WOW!! For years I had swelling of the soft palate and around the

back of my throat, also frequent swelling of my left nostril without

any cold or allergy symptoms. Haven't had that since surgery either.

Very interesting. We need a detailed Shotzie before and after story.

I lost an extra chin without weight loss, I regained cheekbones I

haven't seen in years, I have a jawline again.

And the frequent headaches that were attributed to my menstrual cycle

haven't occured since the Oct 25th surgery either.

In my experience this is a classic response to ADX when all things work well.

Headaches stop in most cases. Again we need to build a database to document this today.

You also mentioned the acne..I had acne like bumps occuring

sporatically on my shoulders, chest , buttocks and thighs. Never

developed into pustules, didn't respond to any topical therapy

offered. Would remain for a month or more than slowly fade away only

to develop in a different area.

Also all gone with the surgery, old spots fading out, no new ones

developed.

It is just amazing how many symptoms are fading away post op and how

many we all seem to have shared.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

December 31, 2006

> > 3) Anxiety/rages - The intense anxiety and rages from nowhere have

> > disappeared. I have been able to discontinue psychiatric medications

> > prescribed to deal with this.

> >

> Few have reported this but the data has never been gathered

systematically in

> this area.

>

There seems to be a common theme on the discussion group in this area.

While controlled data is rather sparse, below are a couple of

recent citations that suggest a link between aldosterone and anxiety:

1. Psychother Psychosom. 2006;75(5):327-30

Psychological aspects of primary aldosteronism.

....Seven patients (2 with aldosterone-producing

adenoma and 5 with idiopathic hyperaldosteronism)

received both DSM-IV and DCPR diagnoses, while 3 had

neither. As to DSM-IV, generalized anxiety disorder

was detected in 6 cases (in 1 it was associated with

panic disorder and in 1 with major depression) and

obsessive-compulsive disorder in 1. The most frequent

DCPR cluster was demoralization (5 cases), while

persistent somatization occurred in 2 cases

(associated with demoralization in 1) and irritable

mood in 1. ...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\

6899970 & dopt=Abstract

2. Neuroendocrinology. 2001 Apr;73(4):261-71

Glucocorticoid and mineralocorticoid receptors are

involved in the facilitation of anxiety-like response

induced by restraint.

Calvo N, Volosin M.

Departamento de Farmacologia, Facultad de Ciencias

Quimicas, Universidad Nacional de Cordoba, Ciudad

Universitaria, Cordoba, Argentina.

In previous studies, we have shown that male Wistar

rats exposed to a single inescapable stressor session

(15 min restraint) exhibited 24 h later an

anxiogenic-like behavior in the elevated plus-maze

(EPM), which was reversed by inhibition of

corticosterone (CS) synthesis with metyrapone (75

mg/kg i.p.) 3 h before stress. Since CS binds to two

central corticosteroid receptors, the

mineralocorticoid (MR) and the glucocorticoid (GR)

receptors, involvement of MR and GR in the modulation

of anxiogenic responses was assessed in the EPM.

Administration of the GR agonist dexamethasone (Dex,

1.25 microg/kg s.c.) to metyrapone-pretreated rats 1 h

before restraint restored the anxiogenic-like response

induced by the stressor. Removal of the adrenals also

inhibited the anxiogenic-like effect, which was

restored by either Dex (1.25 microg/kg s.c.), the MR

agonist deoxycorticosterone (0.8 mg/kg s.c.) or CS,

the common endogenous agonist of MR and GR (5 mg/kg

s.c.) administered 1 h before stress. ...

[To clarify this - a MR agonist means it is like

aldosterone. " Anxiogenic-like effect " means anxiety

inducing. So, part of the abstract is saying, in

effect, aldosterone induces anxiety when we are in

stressful situations involving being trapped.]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\

1340340 & dopt=Abstract

-Jeff

December 31, 2006

>> Your recovery sounds like a miracle to me. I have alot of similar> problems, and I am taking 75mg Inspra twice a day to control my blood> pressure, but no relief from the other symptoms. It feels like a miracle to me as well. I am wondering if it not a miracle at all but rather under-reported.

These changes, other than the HTN, are all post-surgical. I had a 1.2 cm

APA on my left adrenal which was removed laporoscopically on 12/11/06.

Prior to the adrenalectomy, I was taking Spirinolactone.

> Loosing weight for me is a struggle with lots of hunger feelings, and an up and down > process - loose a few pounds, gain a few back, loose a few more pounds etc. The lethargy, brain fog and hypoglycemia made weight loss very difficult for me. In fact, my pattern was lose a few pounds and gain back a few more. After a while, I stopped trying as the end result was weight gain rather than weight loss. I don't believe that I'm in that pattern any longer.> I have Sleep Apnea, and I thought loosing weight is the only possible> solution. Several comments on this. I was diagnosed with HTN and sleep apnea within a couple of months of each other. Prior to the PA diagnosis, the theory was that the sleep apnea was causing the HTN since there was a small reduction in HTN and lethargy after I started CPAP therapy.Since being diagnosed with sleep apnea about 4 years ago, I have used CPAP nightly. In fact, my breathing was so disrupted that I would have difficulty falling asleep without CPAP. Using the CPAP was like a lullaby. I went from 210 to 190 about 3 years ago, but there was no let up in the apnea. About 1 year ago, I had sinus and soft palate surgery to eliminate or reduce the apnea. Not only was the surgery ineffective (actually, my pressure had to be increased), the recovery was hellishly painful. I began the spiro about 1 month before my adrenalectomy. The apnea continued but may have reduced somewhat while I was on spiro as I began to find the CPAP a bit uncomfortable. The day after returning home from adrenalectomy, I could no longer tolerate the CPAP and my sleep breathing no longer appears disordered. I'm not even snoring. > I definitely have anxiety, rage, depression and more. I am taking a> psychiatric mediation called Cymbalta 30 mg (duloxetine) but it does> not help., and I cannot get off of it. My drug of choice for anxiety, rage, and depression was also Cymbalta, but at 60mg. I tried to reduce to 30mg before, but the anxiety and rages came back. Last week, I reduced to 30mg, and am no longer taking the Cymbalta. I feel fine and am behaving no differently than when I was on the Cymbalta...perhaps a bit less zombiefied is all.As an aside, I've heard that getting off Cymbalta is a living hell for some. I'm sorry you are having such trouble with it.> Lethargy - I am always> tired and have to take multiple naps each day. I have a hard time> getting things done, because I am so tired that I just put them off. I> definitely have NO ENERGY at all, and I have to force myself to take> walks to exercise. Been there for sure and continued to feel like this on Spiro...perhaps a bit worse, but I had GI side effects which were probably making the lethargy worse. The lethargy is no longer an issue, even before I adjusted my Cymbalta. That said, when I was initially taking the Cymbalta, the lethargy and tiredness became MUCH worse.> Are you taking any medication? Yes, I'm taking an antibiotic for the sinus infection which I think I picked up from the AutoPAP at the hospital. I have ceased taking all HTN meds and Cymbalta.> Did you loose weight? I'm 5'9" and went from 219lb to 209 without even trying. This was probably the extra fluid from the PA. I will lose addtl weight and am targeting 185.> Did you use a CPAP machine for sleep apnea? Yep.

December 31, 2006

I forgot to mention one thing. My ENT was of the belief that my sleep apnea might go away post-adrenalectomy. He commented that my airway was clear except for continued tissue swelling that was probably edema from the PA. Interestingly, I've haven't been able to breath through my right nostril for years...at least until after the adrenalectomy.> > I have Sleep Apnea, and I thought loosing weight is the only possible> > solution.> > Several comments on this. I was diagnosed with HTN and sleep apnea> within a couple of months of each other. Prior to the PA diagnosis, the> theory was that the sleep apnea was causing the HTN since there was a> small reduction in HTN and lethargy after I started CPAP therapy.> > Since being diagnosed with sleep apnea about 4 years ago, I have used> CPAP nightly. In fact, my breathing was so disrupted that I would have> difficulty falling asleep without CPAP. Using the CPAP was like a> lullaby. I went from 210 to 190 about 3 years ago, but there was no let> up in the apnea.> > About 1 year ago, I had sinus and soft palate surgery to eliminate or> reduce the apnea. Not only was the surgery ineffective (actually, my> pressure had to be increased), the recovery was hellishly painful.> > I began the spiro about 1 month before my adrenalectomy. The apnea> continued but may have reduced somewhat while I was on spiro as I began> to find the CPAP a bit uncomfortable. The day after returning home from> adrenalectomy, I could no longer tolerate the CPAP and my sleep> breathing no longer appears disordered. I'm not even snoring.>

December 31, 2006

>

> . He commented that my airway was

> clear except for continued tissue swelling that was probably edema

from

> the PA. Interestingly, I've haven't been able to breath through my

> right nostril for years...at least until after the adrenalectomy.

>

WOW!! For years I had swelling of the soft palate and around the

back of my throat, also frequent swelling of my left nostril without

any cold or allergy symptoms. Haven't had that since surgery either.

I lost an extra chin without weight loss, I regained cheekbones I

haven't seen in years, I have a jawline again.

And the frequent headaches that were attributed to my menstrual cycle

haven't occured since the Oct 25th surgery either.

You also mentioned the acne..I had acne like bumps occuring

sporatically on my shoulders, chest , buttocks and thighs. Never

developed into pustules, didn't respond to any topical therapy

offered. Would remain for a month or more than slowly fade away only

to develop in a different area.

Also all gone with the surgery, old spots fading out, no new ones

developed.

It is just amazing how many symptoms are fading away post op and how

many we all seem to have shared.

January 2, 2007

> > >

> > > . He commented that my airway was

> > > clear except for continued tissue swelling that was probably

edema

> > from

> > > the PA. Interestingly, I've haven't been able to breath through

my

> > > right nostril for years...at least until after the

adrenalectomy.

> > >

> >

> > WOW!! For years I had swelling of the soft palate and around the

> > back of my throat, also frequent swelling of my left nostril

without

> > any cold or allergy symptoms. Haven't had that since surgery

either.

> Very interesting. We need a detailed Shotzie before and after

story.

I had so many puzzling multi-system symptoms the past few years it is

difficult to write a comprehensive story. So many misdiagnoses were

made to explain away what was happening to me. I had over 50 doctor

appointments between my PCP and specialist referrals in both 2005 and

2006. Not one of them ever suspected PA, I found the nephrologist who

finally obtained the correct testing and diagnosis. It took him only

4 weeks to do so with proper testing, then he made sure the endo he

referred me to was familiar with Conn's.

I went from working 4 per diem jobs that I enjoyed to not being able

to work at all over three year period. I loved to travel and I loved

to drive. It was nothing to take a 12 hour trip, I transported both

my kids to and from colleges, hauling and helping move in and out of

dorms and apartments. Gradually I couldn't tolerate any trip at all,

the 1 hour trip to Syracuse to see my doctors was torture.

I kept adding new symptoms, my allergic response kept increasing, I

had headaches almost daily which became debilitating around

menstuation. Overwhelming fatigue, menstrual difficulties,sleep

difficulties, brain fog, blurred vision, hypoglycemic spells, nausea,

crippling muscle pain and spasms, dry eyes, dry mouth, increased

dental decay. I had always looked many years younger than my age but

suddenly I aged before my own eyes, my skin looked puffy and pasty,

my eyes dull. The worse part was that the docs kept telling me " you

look Great! " Fortunately a few of my close friends were more

truthful and supported me in my effort to obtain proper treatment.

Slowly symptoms are diminishing or disappearing. I was like Debi on

this board, before surgery I was ready to die and knew I wouldn't

make it much longer without some totally disabling event like a heart

attack or stroke.

I have read in several articles that it can take 3-6 months post op

for the body to totally adjust. I do keep a daily record of BP

readings and any symptoms occuring that day. So far little is noted

for symptoms whereas pre op I didn't have room in the space for the

day to write all the symptoms I was experiencing that day.

I find it interesting that others who have had the surgery seem to

have experienced many of the same symptoms which are now disappearing

post op. I did ask my endo about the swelling and the breakouts but

he had never heard of it. He said little is written about what

happens post op. The main thing is the potassium normalizes and the

BP falls, that's all he is concerned about.

I did see an integrative physician many years ago who said a body out

of balance cannot function. I believe the excess aldosterone for a

prolonged period threw my body off so much that every system was

affected. I am in the process of rebalancing, rebuilding and recovery

now. It is a developing story.

> May your pressure be low!

>

> Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

> Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

> and the Physiology and History of Survival During

> Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

>

January 2, 2007

In a message dated 1/2/07 11:14:49 AM, shotzie@... writes:

I did see an integrative physician many years ago who said a body out

of balance cannot function.

yeo aldo upsets the balance-how did he miss it?

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

January 3, 2007

In a message dated 1/2/07 11:14:49 AM, shotzie@... writes:

I had so many puzzling multi-system symptoms the past few years it is

difficult to write a comprehensive story. So many misdiagnoses were

made to explain away what was happening to me. I had over 50 doctor

appointments between my PCP and specialist referrals in both 2005 and

2006. Not one of them ever suspected PA, I found the nephrologist who

finally obtained the correct testing and diagnosis.

The history of misdiagnosis if common and adds to the story. When you have time you can detail the gaunlet you have run to get to PA. Very common.

Good lets educate your PCP and team so he wont miss anymore. Please take my article to him on both PA and difficult HTN. You could even ask him to visit our site.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

January 3, 2007

In a message dated 1/3/07 3:03:34 PM, shotzie@... writes:

Posted by: "lowerbp2@..." lowerbp2@...

lowerbp2

Tue Jan 2, 2007 9:28 pm (PST)

In a message dated 1/2/07 11:14:49 AM, shotzie (DOT)

com writes:

> I did see an integrative physician many years ago

who said a body out

> of balance cannot function.

>

>yeo aldo upsets the balance-how did he miss it?

>May your pressure be low!

He missed it just like all the others missed it,

putting me into a category and refusing to consider

anything else, I was labeled as chronic fatigue

syndrome but still the physician, again like all the

others, refused to test any hormone levels except

Thyroid and FSH.

Surely K was measured with all this other stuff. Nothing better to cause chronic fatigue than low K.

Adrenals seem to be a forgotten organ in this area of

the country. I did get vitamin, mineral and heavy

metal levels done and was switched on to the benefits

of Omega 3s.

Bet they make a lot measureing heavy metals.

Integrative medicine wasn't even called that when I

saw this physician, but he did help me the most in

teaching me to listen to my body, not block symptoms

with meds, eat correctly, use supplements wisely.

For many years I was able to clear symptoms by eating

a clean diet, avoiding allegy triggers, resting more,

doing yoga or whatever to get back to feeling

"balanced" but the past few years that all stopped

working and this physician also wrote me off as

"nuts".

Prob needed more nuts as in the DASH diet. Did anyone ever tell you about this diet?

The other problem is that the specialists and PCPs

refused to communicate with each other, sent little

info to each other and refused to look at the entire

patient as a whole. When things weren't working they

then blamed the patient, either I was non-compliant or

depressed or stressed. I have copies of some of my

records. What is written and what was really said and

done are totally different. I had stated before, my

medical records read like a "fairy tale" doing little

to convey my actual complaints , condition and

treatment.

good reason to keep your copies of all your records.

Remind them to listen to you listening to your body.

I have come in contact with many patients, in both

the hospital and in office practice, who have

legitimate symptoms but the docs refuse to do anything

because they don't know what to do. It is much easier

to write the patient off as too time consuming or

having a mental problem than to try to think out of

the box, do some research and really try to find out

what is going on.

PA should never be out of the box. They all learned about it in med school.

And if they can give you a

diagnosis code that allows frequent office visits

without question by the HMO (in my case HTN), you are

a gravy train for them, guaranteed income, why would

you want to stop that?

Maybe we need a few lawsuits???

Fortunately I did find a

physician more interested in me than the diagnosis

codes, I only had one office visit with him yet he was

able to obtain the diagnosis and refer for proper

treatment. The drive has to be there and

unfortunately few docs around here have any left.

And my guess is the experience to listen to the patient.

Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood

Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

January 3, 2007

Posted by: " lowerbp2@... " lowerbp2@...

lowerbp2

Tue Jan 2, 2007 9:28 pm (PST)

In a message dated 1/2/07 11:14:49 AM, shotzie (DOT)

com writes:

> I did see an integrative physician many years ago

who said a body out

> of balance cannot function.

>

>yeo aldo upsets the balance-how did he miss it?

>May your pressure be low!

He missed it just like all the others missed it,

putting me into a category and refusing to consider

anything else, I was labeled as chronic fatigue

syndrome but still the physician, again like all the

others, refused to test any hormone levels except

Thyroid and FSH.

Adrenals seem to be a forgotten organ in this area of

the country. I did get vitamin, mineral and heavy

metal levels done and was switched on to the benefits

of Omega 3s.

Integrative medicine wasn't even called that when I

saw this physician, but he did help me the most in

teaching me to listen to my body, not block symptoms

with meds, eat correctly, use supplements wisely.

For many years I was able to clear symptoms by eating

a clean diet, avoiding allegy triggers, resting more,

doing yoga or whatever to get back to feeling

" balanced " but the past few years that all stopped

working and this physician also wrote me off as

" nuts " .

The other problem is that the specialists and PCPs

refused to communicate with each other, sent little

info to each other and refused to look at the entire

patient as a whole. When things weren't working they

then blamed the patient, either I was non-compliant or

depressed or stressed. I have copies of some of my

records. What is written and what was really said and

done are totally different. I had stated before, my

medical records read like a " fairy tale " doing little

to convey my actual complaints , condition and

treatment.

I have come in contact with many patients, in both

the hospital and in office practice, who have

legitimate symptoms but the docs refuse to do anything

because they don't know what to do. It is much easier

to write the patient off as too time consuming or

having a mental problem than to try to think out of

the box, do some research and really try to find out

what is going on. And if they can give you a

diagnosis code that allows frequent office visits

without question by the HMO (in my case HTN), you are

a gravy train for them, guaranteed income, why would

you want to stop that? Fortunately I did find a

physician more interested in me than the diagnosis

codes, I only had one office visit with him yet he was

able to obtain the diagnosis and refer for proper

treatment. The drive has to be there and

unfortunately few docs around here have any left.

Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood

Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

__________________________________________________

January 3, 2007

In my case, my -former- internist did listen. Unfortunatley, he didn't know

what he was doing and apparently didn't bother to look up testing protocols.

For example, about 4 years ago, he " tested " for PA by ordering an aldo and low

specifity renin. Of course, there was no way to do an ARR because the renin

came back as '<2'. He didn't bother to pursue.

Since I 'clearly' didn't have PA, he treated each problem indepently. The result

was run-away HTN, numerous ER visits, hospital stays, and specialist of the

month. The best part of this was the white matter lesions in my brain (aka

brain damage) from silent ischemic attacks and vascular damage...the gift that

keeps on giving.

The last straw was when I spent a week in the hospital with wires hooked up to

my head. Although I liked him personally, the best healthcare decision i've

ever made was to fire him.

> The drive has to be there and

> unfortunately few docs around here have any left.

>

> Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

> Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood

> Pressure

> and the Physiology and History of Survival During

> Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

January 8, 2007

, after almost seven years struggling to get a correct Dx and Tx,

I learned along the way that isolated nutrients (vitamins, and

especially minerals) stimulate the adrenals in ways decidedly unhelpful

to PA pts. In fact, people with too much aldo may create or exacerbate

alkalosis when using most supplements. This can include terrible

kidney stone problems - as if all the other ones weren't enough.

This finally culminated in adoption of the DASH diet per 's

little paperback, and lowering sodium to minimize my need for aldactone

(which for men can cause hormone problems). I lowered my need for meds

by 2/3 (to keep BP below 120.80) with DASH, and got WAY more nutrients

from simply limiting myself to whole foods. Exercise and sleep rounded

out the approach, and I feel amazingly well these days.

Sigh,

Dave

On Jan 3, 2007, at 12:51 PM, shotzie wrote:

> Posted by: " lowerbp2@... " lowerbp2@...

> lowerbp2

> Tue Jan 2, 2007 9:28 pm (PST)

>

> In a message dated 1/2/07 11:14:49 AM, shotzie (DOT)

> com writes:

>

> > I did see an integrative physician many years ago

> who said a body out

> > of balance cannot function.

> >

>

> >yeo aldo upsets the balance-how did he miss it?

>

> >May your pressure be low!

>

> He missed it just like all the others missed it,

> putting me into a category and refusing to consider

> anything else, I was labeled as chronic fatigue

> syndrome but still the physician, again like all the

> others, refused to test any hormone levels except

> Thyroid and FSH.

> Adrenals seem to be a forgotten organ in this area of

> the country. I did get vitamin, mineral and heavy

> metal levels done and was switched on to the benefits

> of Omega 3s.

>

> Integrative medicine wasn't even called that when I

> saw this physician, but he did help me the most in

> teaching me to listen to my body, not block symptoms

> with meds, eat correctly, use supplements wisely.

> For many years I was able to clear symptoms by eating

> a clean diet, avoiding allegy triggers, resting more,

> doing yoga or whatever to get back to feeling

> " balanced " but the past few years that all stopped

> working and this physician also wrote me off as

> " nuts " .

>

> The other problem is that the specialists and PCPs

> refused to communicate with each other, sent little

> info to each other and refused to look at the entire

> patient as a whole. When things weren't working they

> then blamed the patient, either I was non-compliant or

> depressed or stressed. I have copies of some of my

> records. What is written and what was really said and

> done are totally different. I had stated before, my

> medical records read like a " fairy tale " doing little

> to convey my actual complaints , condition and

> treatment.

>

> I have come in contact with many patients, in both

> the hospital and in office practice, who have

> legitimate symptoms but the docs refuse to do anything

> because they don't know what to do. It is much easier

> to write the patient off as too time consuming or

> having a mental problem than to try to think out of

> the box, do some research and really try to find out

> what is going on. And if they can give you a

> diagnosis code that allows frequent office visits

> without question by the HMO (in my case HTN), you are

> a gravy train for them, guaranteed income, why would

> you want to stop that? Fortunately I did find a

> physician more interested in me than the diagnosis

> codes, I only had one office visit with him yet he was

> able to obtain the diagnosis and refer for proper

> treatment. The drive has to be there and

> unfortunately few docs around here have any left.

>

> Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

> Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood

> Pressure

> and the Physiology and History of Survival During

> Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

January 9, 2007

In a message dated 1/9/07 8:14:49 AM, erich_brueschke@... writes:

Dave:

Dave wrote:

> I learned along the way that isolated nutrients (vitamins, and

> especially minerals) stimulate the adrenals in ways decidedly unhelpful

> to PA pts. In fact, people with too much aldo may create or exacerbate

> alkalosis when using most supplements.

Do you have a list of these vitamins, and especially minerals?

What about the ones that cause alkalosis?

Thanks,

h Brueschke

DASH dammit.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

January 9, 2007

Dave:

Dave wrote:

> I learned along the way that isolated nutrients (vitamins, and

> especially minerals) stimulate the adrenals in ways decidedly unhelpful

> to PA pts. In fact, people with too much aldo may create or exacerbate

> alkalosis when using most supplements.

Do you have a list of these vitamins, and especially minerals?

What about the ones that cause alkalosis?

Thanks,

h Brueschke

>

> > Posted by: " lowerbp2@... " lowerbp2@...

> > lowerbp2

> > Tue Jan 2, 2007 9:28 pm (PST)

> >

> > In a message dated 1/2/07 11:14:49 AM, shotzie (DOT)

> > com writes:

> >

> > > I did see an integrative physician many years ago

> > who said a body out

> > > of balance cannot function.

> > >

> >

> > >yeo aldo upsets the balance-how did he miss it?

> >

> > >May your pressure be low!

> >

> > He missed it just like all the others missed it,

> > putting me into a category and refusing to consider

> > anything else, I was labeled as chronic fatigue

> > syndrome but still the physician, again like all the

> > others, refused to test any hormone levels except

> > Thyroid and FSH.

> > Adrenals seem to be a forgotten organ in this area of

> > the country. I did get vitamin, mineral and heavy

> > metal levels done and was switched on to the benefits

> > of Omega 3s.

> >

> > Integrative medicine wasn't even called that when I

> > saw this physician, but he did help me the most in

> > teaching me to listen to my body, not block symptoms

> > with meds, eat correctly, use supplements wisely.

> > For many years I was able to clear symptoms by eating

> > a clean diet, avoiding allegy triggers, resting more,

> > doing yoga or whatever to get back to feeling

> > " balanced " but the past few years that all stopped

> > working and this physician also wrote me off as

> > " nuts " .

> >

> > The other problem is that the specialists and PCPs

> > refused to communicate with each other, sent little

> > info to each other and refused to look at the entire

> > patient as a whole. When things weren't working they

> > then blamed the patient, either I was non-compliant or

> > depressed or stressed. I have copies of some of my

> > records. What is written and what was really said and

> > done are totally different. I had stated before, my

> > medical records read like a " fairy tale " doing little

> > to convey my actual complaints , condition and

> > treatment.

> >

> > I have come in contact with many patients, in both

> > the hospital and in office practice, who have

> > legitimate symptoms but the docs refuse to do anything

> > because they don't know what to do. It is much easier

> > to write the patient off as too time consuming or

> > having a mental problem than to try to think out of

> > the box, do some research and really try to find out

> > what is going on. And if they can give you a

> > diagnosis code that allows frequent office visits

> > without question by the HMO (in my case HTN), you are

> > a gravy train for them, guaranteed income, why would

> > you want to stop that? Fortunately I did find a

> > physician more interested in me than the diagnosis

> > codes, I only had one office visit with him yet he was

> > able to obtain the diagnosis and refer for proper

> > treatment. The drive has to be there and

> > unfortunately few docs around here have any left.

> >

> > Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

> > Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood

> > Pressure

> > and the Physiology and History of Survival During

> > Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

January 9, 2007

It seems to vary with individuals, but the calcium forms usual in

supplements turn to salt in serum, as do the ascorbic acids. The

ascorbate forms of vitamin C are minerals when ingested, but turn into

ascorbic acid in serum. Backward-fashion. Alkalosis occurs if the

angiotensin system is troubled. As with hyperaldo or Cushings. Or

with kidney or liver disease. Reduced ability to eliminate salts or

electrolytes. Then, salts can build up and the sweat glands in the

skin can take over, in a slower elimination attempt. White powder

residue from dried perspiration. Since the skin is part of the

embryonic nervous system, those researchers looking at BBNS or calcium

metabolism are interested in this with respect to nervous disorders

like Parkinsons or panic disorder. Or, if your diet is rich in things

like black pepper or rhubarb (oxylate-forming), kidney stones can tend

to form with more frequency and severity.

I had many of these symptoms prior to DASHing. And aldactone. That's

what perked up my interest. I had used supplements. No more. I DASH.

There are a few aggregations of study on this at University of AZ,

Tucson, and I am going to have to go back and find them again. DR

Grim, I am sure is aware of this work. It is an interesting question.

Dave

On Jan 9, 2007, at 11:04 AM, lowerbp2@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 1/9/07 8:14:49 AM, erich_brueschke@...

> writes:

>

> Dave:

>

> Dave wrote:

> > I learned along the way that isolated nutrients (vitamins, and

> > especially minerals) stimulate the adrenals in ways decidedly

> unhelpful

> > to PA pts. In fact, people with too much aldo may create or

> exacerbate

> > alkalosis when using most supplements.

>

> Do you have a list of these vitamins, and especially minerals?

>

> What about the ones that cause alkalosis?

>

> Thanks,

> h Brueschke

>

January 9, 2007

Once again DASH dammit. At least till the other supplements etc prove they are as good as or better than DASH.

In a message dated 1/9/07 1:50:37 PM, riothamus20@... writes: