Re: Spironolactone ... hair is worse ... and CAH, AME and GRA ... Cushings??

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/9/06 9:11:04 PM, CDillardda@... writes:

Next: I found if I have EDS I am NOT supposed to take steroids. And, Spironolactone I read is a steroid!

Spiro is an steroid receptor antagonist for the minerqlocorticoid receptor-the one that aldo or cortisolo can occupy and cause salt retention, high BP and low K. It also occupies and stimulates some of the sex steroid receptors. Inspra is much more specific for the MC receptor.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

>

> I was given Spironolactone because of my beard with the side effect

to be

> helping my BP. That is my doctors being scared on what is causing

my BP. She

> stopped all my medications and my Kdur and gave me 25 Mg of

Spironolactone. That

> was Jan 2006 until late Jul 2006. I think the hair on my chin got

better during

> that period ... but I still needed to shave it. I read it will stop

NEW

> growth but that existent hair needs perhaps electrolysis, plucking

or shaving.

>

> Okay, I am female. My first reaction to Spironolactone was breast

> enlargement. Which then went away! Next, my hips finally got better

curves. To me my

> figure was acting like I was a male taking this medication to

become more female.

> The most amazing effect is how my face got more feminine. Next my

skin got

> thinner and I started having GI ruptures and vein ruptures. This

presumedly due

> to Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (EDS). As I struggled to keep taking the

medication,

> I got " back of knee vein rupture " , wrist vein rupture -- all from

tight BP

> wrist cuff. Most recently I had an eye vein rupture. Always it is

my veins. IMHO,

> I need my testosterone. It might be making my collagen stronger.

Only

> genetics will tell me this. When my BP spiked about ten days ago, I

felt the eye pop.

> Since I have insensitively to pain, I did not bother to even look

at my eye.

> Hours later it was blood red. But in less than two days, all signs

was gone.

> That is typical of my accelerated healing. <<Another reason I will

be seen by

> the head of genetics>>.

>

> Next: I found if I have EDS I am NOT supposed to take steroids.

And,

> Spironolactone I read is a steroid! Oh well. I stopped the

medication on July 26,

> 2006. First because my low labile BP was now ridiculously low --

like 74/46. My

> high BP is really due to my dysautonomia or dysreflexia. The slowed

healing from

> the Spironolactone just made things worse.

>

> As I was now off of the Spironolactone, (for three months now) my

beard is

> back ... !!!!!! and I feel it is WORSE! All the better to show

genetics when I

> tell them to test me for nonclassic CAH, AME and GRA. The doctor I

am going to,

> was formerly at NIH and is an Adult genetics & EDS specialist. She

is Dr.

> Francomano.

>

> My beard ... I have handlebars!!!! My Testosterone was low when

tested in

> 2000. It was abnormally LOW!! But they did the test on my third day

of Prednisone

> IV (Medrolsolu?) for bronchospasm. I feel that totally disrupted

the result

> ... considering I might have GRA. Caro

>

When I was on 100 mgs. of Spiro I ended up with very painful breasts.

I told my Endo doc and he lowered the dose back down to 50 mg.

Would the Spiro cause vein ruptures?

Well the Spiro hasn't done much for my face. If I do break out, the

acne takes forever to heal - sores also take forever to heal. Not

sure if it's from taking the Spiro or not.

I will say though, I don't gain weight as easily as I was before - I

guess that's a good thing :-)

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Dr. Grim,

What is meant by Spiro occupying and stimulating the sex steriod

receptors? what side effects we can see out of this?

I am on Spiro 150mg per day.

2

>

>

> In a message dated 11/9/06 9:11:04 PM, CDillardda@... writes:

>

>

> > Next: I found if I have EDS I am NOT supposed to take steroids. And,

> > Spironolactone I read is a steroid!

> >

> >

>

> Spiro is an steroid receptor antagonist for the minerqlocorticoid

> receptor-the one that aldo or cortisolo can occupy and cause salt

retention, high BP and

> low K. It also occupies and stimulates some of the sex steroid

receptors.

> Inspra is much more specific for the MC receptor.

>

>

>

> May your pressure be low!

>

> Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

> Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

> and the Physiology and History of Survival During

> Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, that's a lot . I am on 37mg (would be 75 w/o DASHing). Have

you got the gynecomestia? I do, and now a suspicious mass.

Dave

On Nov 13, 2006, at 7:52 PM, bayabas76 wrote:

> Dr. Grim,

>

> What is meant by Spiro occupying and stimulating the sex steriod

> receptors? what side effects we can see out of this?

>

> I am on Spiro 150mg per day.

>

> 2

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/14/06 6:53:13 PM, bayabas76@... writes:

I do, and now a suspicious mass.

its the spiro not suspicious.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/13/06 10:02:34 PM, bayabas76@... writes:

What is meant by Spiro occupying and stimulating the sex steriod

receptors? what side effects we can see out of this?

I am on Spiro 150mg per day.

2

IN men big and painful breasts, in women menst irregularites maybe.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

[Guest guest]

Yes sir, I am the one with gynecomastia. I used to have 200mg per day

and I have decdied to reduced it gradually. The nipples alternate from

a protruding shape and normal but breast area is definitely larger

than normal male form.

Since doctors left me, I am on my own, and of course our group here.

>

> > Dr. Grim,

> >

> > What is meant by Spiro occupying and stimulating the sex steriod

> > receptors? what side effects we can see out of this?

> >

> > I am on Spiro 150mg per day.

> >

> > 2

>

[Guest guest]

The pain has reduced a noticeable bit after reducing dosage of Spiro

to 150mg per day from 200.

>

>

> In a message dated 11/13/06 10:02:34 PM, bayabas76@... writes:

>

>

> > What is meant by Spiro occupying and stimulating the sex steriod

> > receptors? what side effects we can see out of this?

> >

> > I am on Spiro 150mg per day.

> >

> > 2

> >

>

> IN men big and painful breasts, in women menst irregularites maybe.

>

>

>

> May your pressure be low!

>

> Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

> Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

> and the Physiology and History of Survival During

> Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> The pain has reduced a noticeable bit after reducing dosage of Spiro

> to 150mg per day from 200.

>

I'm really happy for you that the pain has decreased! I was on 100mg a

day and my Endo doc reduced my dosage back down to 50mg a day because I

was having pain as well.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy,

Oh I thought gynecomastia only affects males taking Spiro. Yes the

pain is reduced just a bit, but the enlarged mass is still there. Thanks.

2

> >

> > The pain has reduced a noticeable bit after reducing dosage of Spiro

> > to 150mg per day from 200.

> >

>

> I'm really happy for you that the pain has decreased! I was on 100mg a

> day and my Endo doc reduced my dosage back down to 50mg a day because I

> was having pain as well.

>

> Kathy

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Kathy,

>

> Oh I thought gynecomastia only affects males taking Spiro. Yes the

> pain is reduced just a bit, but the enlarged mass is still there.

Thanks.

>

> 2

>

Hi ,

Yes it only effects males (gynecomastia), but it can also cause the

breasts to become painful because it happened to me. It also says this

as one of the side effects in females on the sheet of paper they gave

me with my Spiro script. From my understanding Spiro has some nasty

side effects.

Do you know if the Spiro is causing the mass?

Kathy

[Guest guest]

I won't know until they take it out with the same laporocsope they'd

use on a biopsy on the 30th. It doesn't look like cancer to the

various docs, but to be sure, out it comes. According to my one doctor

familiar with PA, it isn't known whether spiro or its affect upon the

underlying mineralcorticoid disorder causes bumps of various kinds. He

says he's seen calcium deposits almost anywhere in the body. Once it

is out, the path report will tell us what it is. It may be a fibrocyst

or " other things. " I am trying not to think about it until the

excision.

Dave

On Nov 15, 2006, at 7:59 PM, kathy11961 wrote:

>

> >

> > Hi Kathy,

> >

> > Oh I thought gynecomastia only affects males taking Spiro. Yes the

> > pain is reduced just a bit, but the enlarged mass is still there.

> Thanks.

> >

> > 2

> >

>

> Hi ,

>

> Yes it only effects males (gynecomastia), but it can also cause the

> breasts to become painful because it happened to me. It also says this

> as one of the side effects in females on the sheet of paper they gave

> me with my Spiro script. From my understanding Spiro has some nasty

> side effects.

>

> Do you know if the Spiro is causing the mass?

>

> Kathy

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/16/06 3:17:00 AM, riothamus20@... writes:

I won't know until they take it out with the same laporocsope they'd

use on a biopsy on the 30th.  It doesn't look like cancer to the

various docs, but to be sure, out it comes.  According to my one doctor

familiar with PA, it isn't known whether spiro or its affect upon the

underlying mineralcorticoid disorder causes bumps of various kinds.  He

says he's seen calcium deposits almost anywhere in the body.  Once it

is out, the path report will tell us what it is.  It may be a fibrocyst

or "other things."   I am trying not to think about it until the

excision.

Dave

My appoach has been to see if it resolves when the spiro is stopped but that will require other bp meds-maybe unless the diet has taken over.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

[Guest guest]

I've tried over 30 BP meds - to little or no effect. Only spiro,

inspra or steroids (dex, etc, which we don't want to use regularly,

right?) seem to lower BP. 1500MG/day sodium w/DASH plan makes my spiro

need 37MG to stay at 118/70.

If I take the spiro away, BP shoots up to 180/95. I have not tried

this for almost 9 mos, however, since the gynecomastia grew.

The lump is quite unusually hard, Dr Calson (and the Washington

Hospital surgery director, Ramsey Araj) say, and small (less than 2cm).

On mammogram it is not something they've seen, but one radiologist

(Chinese, as it happens) said he'd seen calcium deposits in hyperaldo

cases twice. Like a " boob stone. " I have stones and white powder all

over the place untreated for too much aldo. Should I risk the spiro

stoppage with my LVH and 7-8 yrs untreated HTN?

Dave

On Nov 16, 2006, at 9:52 AM, lowerbp2@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 11/16/06 3:17:00 AM, riothamus20@... writes:

>

>

> I won't know until they take it out with the same laporocsope they'd

> use on a biopsy on the 30th.  It doesn't look like cancer to the

> various docs, but to be sure, out it comes.  According to my one

> doctor

> familiar with PA, it isn't known whether spiro or its affect upon the

> underlying mineralcorticoid disorder causes bumps of various kinds. 

> He

> says he's seen calcium deposits almost anywhere in the body.  Once it

> is out, the path report will tell us what it is.  It may be a

> fibrocyst

> or " other things. "    I am trying not to think about it until the

> excision.

>

> Dave

>

>

> My appoach has been to see if it resolves when the spiro is stopped

> but that will require other bp meds-maybe unless the diet has taken

> over.

>

>

>

> May your pressure be low!

>

> Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

> Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

> and the Physiology and History of Survival During

> Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/17/06 7:37:38 AM, bayabas76@... writes:

One side effect of Spiro in males is enlarged breast, unfortunately, I

am one. A trade off is better bp control though.

In my experience most males get this eventually, but this was when we used up to 400 mg a day. It would be the major reason to would switch to Inspra when it develops.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/17/06 2:48:38 AM, riothamus20@... writes:

I've tried over 30 BP meds - to little or no effect.  Only spiro,

inspra or steroids (dex, etc, which we don't want to use regularly,

right?) seem to lower BP.  1500MG/day sodium w/DASH plan makes my spiro

need 37MG to stay at 118/70.

If I take the spiro away, BP shoots up to 180/95.  I have not tried

this for almost 9 mos, however, since the gynecomastia grew.

The lump is quite unusually hard, Dr Calson (and the Washington

Hospital surgery director, Ramsey Araj) say, and small (less than 2cm).

   On mammogram it is not something they've seen, but one radiologist

(Chinese, as it happens) said he'd seen calcium deposits in hyperaldo

cases twice.  Like a "boob stone."   I have stones and white powder all

over the place untreated for too much aldo.  Should I risk the spiro

stoppage with my LVH and 7-8 yrs untreated HTN?

Dave

This is a tough question and one to be worked out with you team. Remind me again why you did not tolerate Inspra? 9 months of good BP control should have regressed most of your LVH.

My approach would be to taper the spiro and watch the BP, it will take some time for the mass to regress but there is not data on how long that I can find. Another good reason for a database. I am going to do a PUMMED search to see what I can find.

Some with PA also have Ca problems such as primary hyperthyroidism which could lead to calcium deposits.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure

and the Physiology and History of Survival During

Hard Times and Heart Disease today.

[Guest guest]

One side effect of Spiro in males is enlarged breast, unfortunately, I

am one. A trade off is better bp control though.

> >

> > Hi Kathy,

> >

> > Oh I thought gynecomastia only affects males taking Spiro. Yes the

> > pain is reduced just a bit, but the enlarged mass is still there.

> Thanks.

> >

> > 2

> >

>

> Hi ,

>

> Yes it only effects males (gynecomastia), but it can also cause the

> breasts to become painful because it happened to me. It also says this

> as one of the side effects in females on the sheet of paper they gave

> me with my Spiro script. From my understanding Spiro has some nasty

> side effects.

>

> Do you know if the Spiro is causing the mass?

>

> Kathy

>