Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 In a message dated 9/1/06 1:51:05 PM, meling333@... writes: Hi everyone Well yesterday was not fun at all and been feeling drupy for over a week. I had 113/70 sitting and lower when I would stand up with a puse of 60. I have been taking 50mg atenolol and 75mg spiro in the moring and 50mg spiro at nite. Started the spiro june 22 of this year. I have lost 10lbs and have really reduced my salt intake. Is this why I need less meds?? Almost certainly. Shows the power of diet on BP!! Take to your health care team about stepping down your drug treatment. Today i took 25mg atenolol and 50mg spiro as bp is 133/93 pulse 71. I find this so confusing. and now the batteries just croaked in my BP unit. ita Talk to your team as you should not stop atenolol all at once as BP and pulse may jump up. Cutting in in 1/2 as you did may be OK if they say it is OK. BP will change in a day or 2 when BB are changed. Spiro may take a week or more to see an effect. Remember we can't make you a Dr. here---- but our goal is to make you a pretty good BP Dr. You are one the right track. Another good reasson to buy the one you pump up and listen to (aneroid)-you save the environment from batteries waste-not to mention the cost of the batteries. You should be able to buy one from Walgreens for about $20. You can also get a plug in for many home units that will soon pay for itself in the cost of batteries. s May your pressure be low! C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival During Hard Times and Heart Disease today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 In a message dated 9/3/06 2:27:19 PM, meling333@... writes: Hi Dr. Grim I am better now on 25mg atenolol and 100mg spiro. Another thing I was using a allergy spray containing triamcinolone which I know surpressed my adrenals which added to my low blood pressure. So far my team is a FNP who wants me to find a dr. who know what he are doing. I havent had much luck. I have faxed my labs 2 weeks ago to the Professor of Endo at UCD in Sacramento with no response. I wont go back to the other Endos at Mercy as they dont know anything about PA as 7 months with them they didnt have a clue as to what was wrong with me even with extreme high blood pressure after stopping hydrocortisone, dehydration, raised wbc & platelets below range with K and more. She said I exhausted Endocronology and to take my symptoms some where and get them sorted out. I have really been through the mill for 2 years till I found you and got on sprio. Are you having any luck finding me a dr at UCSF. I was born and raised in SF not far from UCSF Thanks again ita Almost certainly. Shows the power of diet on BP!! Take to your health care team about stepping down your drug treatment. Today i took 25mg atenolol and 50mg spiro as bp is 133/93 pulse 71. I find this so confusing. and now the batteries just croaked in my BP unit. ita Talk to your team as you should not stop atenolol all at once as BP and pulse may jump up. Cutting in in 1/2 as you did may be OK if they say it is OK. BP will change in a day or 2 when BB are changed. Spiro may take a week or more to see an effect. Remember we can't make you a Dr. here---- but our goal is to make you a pretty good BP Dr. You are on the right track. Another good reasson to buy the one you pump up and listen to (aneroid)-you save the environment from batteries waste-not to mention the cost of the batteries.You should be able to buy one from Walgreens for about $20.You can also get a plug in for many home units that will soon pay for itself in the cost of batteries. May your pressure be low! C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival During Hard Times and Heart Disease today. > See if you can see Dr. Curtis or the chief of the high blood pressure research group there and see who he recommends. You could also call Dr. Schamblen's office at UCSF and ask who he would recommend you see there. Tell his office that Dr. Clarence Grim asked you to call. I will be setting up a part time practice in Tahoe this Fall. May your pressure be low! C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival During Hard Times and Heart Disease today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 In a message dated 9/3/06 2:27:19 PM, meling333@... writes: Hi Dr. Grim I am better now on 25mg atenolol and 100mg spiro. Another thing I was using a allergy spray containing triamcinolone which I know surpressed my adrenals which added to my low blood pressure. No Triam may raise your BP unless you have GRA type hyperaldosteronims and I hope they tested for that at Mayo. So far my team is a FNP who wants me to find a dr. who know what he are doing. Again tell him I am happy to work with him to help get you under control. I havent had much luck. I have faxed my labs 2 weeks ago to the Professor of Endo at UCD in Sacramento with no response. I wont go back to the other Endos at Mercy as they dont know anything about PA as 7 months with them they didnt have a clue as to what was wrong with me even with extreme high blood pressure after stopping hydrocortisone, dehydration, raised wbc & platelets below range with K and more. She said I exhausted Endocronology and to take my symptoms some where and get them sorted out. I have really been through the mill for 2 years till I found you and got on sprio. Are you having any luck finding me a dr at UCSF. I was born and raised in SF not far from UCSF Thanks again ita Almost certainly. Shows the power of diet on BP!! Take to your health care team about stepping down your drug treatment. Today i took 25mg atenolol and 50mg spiro as bp is 133/93 pulse 71. I find this so confusing. and now the batteries just croaked in my BP unit. ita Talk to your team as you should not stop atenolol all at once as BP and pulse may jump up. Cutting in in 1/2 as you did may be OK if they say it is OK. BP will change in a day or 2 when BB are changed. Spiro may take a week or more to see an effect. Remember we can't make you a Dr. here---- but our goal is to make you a pretty good BP Dr. You are on the right track. Another good reasson to buy the one you pump up and listen to (aneroid)-you save the environment from batteries waste-not to mention the cost of the batteries.You should be able to buy one from Walgreens for about $20.You can also get a plug in for many home units that will soon pay for itself in the cost of batteries. May your pressure be low! C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival During Hard Times and Heart Disease today. > May your pressure be low! C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival During Hard Times and Heart Disease today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Hi Dr. Grim I am better now on 25mg atenolol and 100mg spiro. Another thing I was using a allergy spray containing triamcinolone which I know surpressed my adrenals which added to my low blood pressure. So far my team is a FNP who wants me to find a dr. who know what he are doing. I havent had much luck. I have faxed my labs 2 weeks ago to the Professor of Endo at UCD in Sacramento with no response. I wont go back to the other Endos at Mercy as they dont know anything about PA as 7 months with them they didnt have a clue as to what was wrong with me even with extreme high blood pressure after stopping hydrocortisone, dehydration, raised wbc & platelets below range with K and more. She said I exhausted Endocronology and to take my symptoms some where and get them sorted out. I have really been through the mill for 2 years till I found you and got on sprio. Are you having any luck finding me a dr at UCSF. I was born and raised in SF not far from UCSF Thanks again ita Almost certainly. Shows the power of diet on BP!! Take to your health care team about stepping down your drug treatment. Today i took 25mg atenolol and 50mg spiro as bp is 133/93 pulse 71. I find this so confusing. and now the batteries just croaked in my BP unit. ita Talk to your team as you should not stop atenolol all at once as BP and pulse may jump up. Cutting in in 1/2 as you did may be OK if they say it is OK. BP will change in a day or 2 when BB are changed. Spiro may take a week or more to see an effect. Remember we can't make you a Dr. here---- but our goal is to make you a pretty good BP Dr. You are on the right track. Another good reasson to buy the one you pump up and listen to (aneroid)-you save the environment from batteries waste-not to mention the cost of the batteries.You should be able to buy one from Walgreens for about $20.You can also get a plug in for many home units that will soon pay for itself in the cost of batteries. May your pressure be low! C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival During Hard Times and Heart Disease today. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Hi Dr. Grim Thank you for the dr.s This pt practice in Tahoe sounds like the best deal in town. I am only 1 1/2 hours from Tahoe. Is my luck changing or what!! Fall is almost here. Oh I hope that works out for us both. ita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Am working on getting my CA Lic again. Did not keep it up when I left in 94. May your pressure be low! C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival During Hard Times and Heart Disease today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Hi Dr. Grim Is GRA over producton of Aldo caused by ACTH being high? What are the tests for GRA? I have raised my K and lowered my BP 2xs with HC out of desperaton which made the hyperpigmentation of my gums and arms and a ring around my waist go away. So far my ACTH has never been caught above 14 on a scale 3-49 only in the morning. I wonder what ACTH is doing at nite. I may be one of the hardest nuts to crack. LOL Looking foreward to your retirement in Tahoe and your pt practice. ita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Dr. Grim I been reading about GRA there is a strong history on my dads side with HBP he only lived to be 62 as he didnt believe in Drs Spanish decent if that means any thing. On the other hand his sister believed in drs. took bp meds and lived to her late 80s. It is very strange that HC has helped in this mess I am in but the mineral part of hc causes more swelling sort of. I do wonder about dexamethsone and what it could do for me for some time. What kind of a DST would be appropriate for me for starts?. And one to look for chimeric Gene? The FNP i see is the only one so far who is very willing to help with this mess i am in other than you. Thanks again ita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 In a message dated 9/4/06 3:41:15 PM, meling333@... writes: Dr. Grim I been reading about GRA there is a strong history on my dads side with HBP he only lived to be 62 as he didnt believe in Drs Spanish decent if that means any thing. On the other hand his sister believed in drs. took bp meds and lived to her late 80s. It is very strange that HC has helped in this mess I am in but the mineral part of hc causes more swelling sort of. I do wonder about dexamethsone and what it could do for me for some time. What kind of a DST would be appropriate for me for starts?. And one to look for chimeric Gene? The FNP i see is the only one so far who is very willing to help with this mess i am in other than you. Thanks again ita I trust the Mayo Clinic tested you for GRA. Any family Hx of low K? May your pressure be low! C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival During Hard Times and Heart Disease today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 In a message dated 9/4/06 2:44:21 PM, meling333@... writes: Hi Dr. Grim Is GRA over producton of Aldo caused by ACTH being high? What are the tests for GRA? I have raised my K and lowered my BP 2xs with HC out of desperaton which made the hyperpigmentation of my gums and arms and a ring around my waist go away. So far my ACTH has never been caught above 14 on a scale 3-49 only in the morning. I wonder what ACTH is doing at nite. I may be one of the hardest nuts to crack. LOL Looking foreward to your retirement in Tahoe and your pt practice. ita Read my file on the Evolution of PA. The ACTH is normal in these cases but the chimeric gene reacts to normal levels to cause low renin and high aldo. May your pressure be low! C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival During Hard Times and Heart Disease today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 > > > In a message dated 9/4/06 3:41:15 PM, meling333@... writes: > > > > > > Dr. Grim > > I been reading about GRA there is a strong history on my dads side with HBP > > he only lived to be 62 as he didnt believe in Drs Spanish decent if that > > means any thing. On the other hand his sister believed in drs. took bp meds and > > lived to her late 80s. It is very strange that HC has helped in this mess I am > > in but the mineral part of hc causes more swelling sort of. I do wonder > > about dexamethsone and what it could do for me for some time. What kind of a DST > > would be appropriate for me for starts?. > > And one to look for chimeric Gene? > > The FNP i see is the only one so far who is very willing to help with this > > mess i am in other than you. Thanks again ita > > > > > > > > I trust the Mayo Clinic tested you for GRA. Any family Hx of low K? > > > > May your pressure be low! > > C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. > Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure > and the Physiology and History of Survival During > Hard Times and Heart Disease today. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Dr. Grim I have never been to the Mayo Clinic or been tested for GRA. Would UCD in Sacramento or UCSF be able to test me for GRA? ita I trust the Mayo Clinic tested you for GRA. Any family Hx of low K?\ May your pressure be low! C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. > Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure > and the Physiology and History of Survival During > Hard Times and Heart Disease today. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Dr. Grim I dont know of any low K in my family though they were all so in the closet when it came to health matters and only talked about the high BP and that one day I would have it. I am 50 if I had GRA wouldnt I have been sick a long time ago? ita ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ I trust the Mayo Clinic tested you for GRA. Any family Hx of low K?\ May your pressure be low! > C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. > > Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure > > and the Physiology and History of Survival During > > Hard Times and Heart Disease today. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Your renin would have been low and your aldo high for your but may not have HBP yet. Read my article. May your pressure be low! C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival During Hard Times and Heart Disease today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 In a message dated 9/4/06 8:14:55 PM, meling333@... writes: Dr. Grim I have never been to the Mayo Clinic or been tested for GRA. Would UCD in Sacramento or UCSF be able to test me for GRA? ita Sorry I thought you had been to the Mayo. Your LMD can screen test you by doing an overnight dex test and measure aldo-if it does not drop to very low you dont have it. But final test is the genetic test which I do if the aldo does not suppress overnight with Dex. May your pressure be low! C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival During Hard Times and Heart Disease today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Have your Dr. read 136. Grim CE, A Ganguly, MH Weinberger. A Rapid Method to Differentiate Glucocorticoid-Suppressible Hyperaldosteronsim from other Causes of Primary Aldosteronism with an Anomalous Postural Response of Plasma Aldosterone. Serono Symposia Review 1986 10: 69-78. May your pressure be low! C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival During Hard Times and Heart Disease today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Dr. Grim:I think ita is in Sacramento area. I dont think she went to Mayo. I went to Mayo as you may recall last January. In fact I asked the endo who was treating me to test me for GRA. He said by looking at the lab results he was sure I didnt have GRA but he also mentioned that it didnt matter and that the diagnosis and meds they prescribe would be the same for GRA patients. So the answer to your question is; they dont test patients for GRA at Mayo. Farah On 9/4/06, lowerbp2@... <lowerbp2@...> wrote: In a message dated 9/4/06 3:41:15 PM, meling333@... writes: Dr. GrimI been reading about GRA there is a strong history on my dads side with HBP he only lived to be 62 as he didnt believe in Drs Spanish decent if that means any thing. On the other hand his sister believed in drs. took bp meds and lived to her late 80s. It is very strange that HC has helped in this mess I am in but the mineral part of hc causes more swelling sort of. I do wonder about dexamethsone and what it could do for me for some time. What kind of a DST would be appropriate for me for starts?. And one to look for chimeric Gene?The FNP i see is the only one so far who is very willing to help with this mess i am in other than you. Thanks again ita I trust the Mayo Clinic tested you for GRA. Any family Hx of low K?May your pressure be low!C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival DuringHard Times and Heart Disease today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 In a message dated 9/5/06 2:36:07 AM, farahbar@... writes: Dr. Grim: I think ita is in Sacramento area. I dont think she went to Mayo.  I went to Mayo as you may recall last January. In fact I asked the endo who was treating me to test me for GRA. He said by looking at the lab results he was sure I didnt have GRA but he also mentioned that it didnt matter and that the diagnosis and meds they prescribe would be the same for GRA patients.  So the answer to your question is; they dont test patients  for GRA at Mayo.  Farah Sorry I thought she had also been up there. They must be able to "see" better than I can when looking at lab numbers to Dx GRA. As far as I know this is not possible. The first family I saw, and the first ever reported with normokalemia, we suspected it because we studied 2 boys (6 and 8) and their Dad who was 35 and all had HTN and LVH-but normal K. This family was one that made up the first genetic study done by Dr. Lifton who brilliantly figured out the problem. We had suggested an incresaed Adrenal Sensitivity to ACTH but we didnt have the genetic testing ability we do now. May your pressure be low! C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival During Hard Times and Heart Disease today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 In a message dated 9/5/06 6:04:44 PM, farahbar@... writes: Dr.Grim: Is that Dr. Lifton of Yale Univ? And the kit that you get from Yale(as Dave has mentioned in the past) is that part of his research? Yes he is the one. I dont know about the kit. See what you can find. May also be thur Harvard which has a registry for GRA-Dr. Dulhy (spelling???). They may now have kit that they mail and you do a mouth swab and send it in. Let me know what you find out. May your pressure be low! C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival During Hard Times and Heart Disease today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Dr.Grim:Is that Dr. Lifton of Yale Univ? And the kit that you get from Yale(as Dave has mentioned in the past) is that part of his research? http://www.med.yale.edu/mdphd/administration/lifton.htm Thanks, Farah On 9/5/06, lowerbp2@... <lowerbp2@...> wrote: In a message dated 9/5/06 2:36:07 AM, farahbar@... writes: Dr. Grim: I think ita is in Sacramento area. I dont think she went to Mayo. I went to Mayo as you may recall last January. In fact I asked the endo who was treating me to test me for GRA. He said by looking at the lab results he was sure I didnt have GRA but he also mentioned that it didnt matter and that the diagnosis and meds they prescribe would be the same for GRA patients. So the answer to your question is; they dont test patients for GRA at Mayo. Farah Sorry I thought she had also been up there. They must be able to " see " better than I can when looking at lab numbers to Dx GRA. As far as I know this is not possible. The first family I saw, and the first ever reported with normokalemia, we suspected it because we studied 2 boys (6 and 8) and their Dad who was 35 and all had HTN and LVH-but normal K. This family was one that made up the first genetic study done by Dr. Lifton who brilliantly figured out the problem. We had suggested an incresaed Adrenal Sensitivity to ACTH but we didnt have the genetic testing ability we do now. May your pressure be low!C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D.Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressureand the Physiology and History of Survival DuringHard Times and Heart Disease today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Dr. Grim, One of the tests done at Hopkins was plasma ACTH. The result was 31 pg/mL (range 5-27). I only know this because I asked them to send me a copy of all of my test results. The doctor at Hopkins did not tell me anything about this test only that my salivary cortisol tests were normal. The joke (not funny) is that I drove about 100 mi one way to Hopkins and spent the night in a motel for my AM appointment and the ACTH test was done at a lab 15 miles from my house in VA! My primary said that the result meant that my pitituary gland is causing my aldo to be high. Latest renin/aldo results: Renin .9 Aldo 20. Dr at UVA says my aldo is not being caused by adrenal tumor since it is suppressed by saline. I had an ocreotide scan last fall and nothing showed up. Should I be looking for and endo that specializes in pituatary disorders? My bp is not controlled by spiro and Labetalol and I have other symptoms that have destroyed my life so I want a cure or a short life - at this point I don't care which. Fran > > > In a message dated 9/4/06 2:44:21 PM, meling333@... writes: > > > > > > Hi Dr. Grim > > Is GRA over producton of Aldo > > caused by ACTH being high? What are the tests for GRA? I have raised my K > > and lowered my BP 2xs with HC out of desperaton which made the > > hyperpigmentation of my gums and arms and a ring around my waist go away. So far my ACTH has > > never been caught above 14 on a scale 3-49 only in the morning. I wonder what > > ACTH is doing at nite. I may be one of the hardest nuts to crack. LOL > > Looking foreward to your retirement in Tahoe and your pt practice. ita > > > > > > > > Read my file on the Evolution of PA. The ACTH is normal in these cases but > the chimeric gene reacts to normal levels to cause low renin and high aldo. > > > > May your pressure be low! > > C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. > Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure > and the Physiology and History of Survival During > Hard Times and Heart Disease today. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 In a message dated 9/24/06 1:35:50 PM, frand2@... writes: Dr. Grim, One of the tests done at Hopkins was plasma ACTH. The result was 31 pg/mL (range 5-27). I only know this because I asked them to send me a copy of all of my test results. The doctor at Hopkins did not tell me anything about this test only that my salivary cortisol tests were normal. The joke (not funny) is that I drove about 100 mi one way to Hopkins and spent the night in a motel for my AM appointment and the ACTH test was done at a lab 15 miles from my house in VA! My primary said that the result meant that my pitituary gland is causing my aldo to be high. Latest renin/aldo results: Renin .9 Aldo 20. Dr at UVA says my aldo is not being caused by adrenal tumor since it is suppressed by saline. I had an ocreotide scan last fall and nothing showed up. Should I be looking for and endo that specializes in pituatary disorders? My bp is not controlled by spiro and Labetalol and I have other symptoms that have destroyed my life so I want a cure or a short life - at this point I don't care which. Fran You need someone who speicalizes in High Blood Pressure specifically Endocrine aspects and has been doing it for some time. There are not a lot in the world who meet this criteria. My guess is that the ACTH was only slightly high from all the stresses and strains of driving up etc. As far as I am aware the ACTH measurement in GRA is not high. I would want to repeat the ACTH under careful conditions. You do have early primary aldo. May your pressure be low! C.E. Grim, B.S., M.S., M.D. Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival During Hard Times and Heart Disease today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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