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Re: AVS Data

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By looking at these numbers it appears to me that the doctor did not go in the left gland. The cortisol level should have been 20-30 times higher than the IVC. Cortisol on the left side and the IVC are practically the same. As you can see the cortisol on the right side shot up so much higher. Dr.Grim what is your view on looking at this report? Or is this how its supposed to look since there is an adenoma that is so large in size? mancoff <mancoff@...> wrote: Aldosterone CortisolLeft IVC 31 27 Left AV 4 26Right IVC

22 9Right AV 1385 1467

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In a message dated 2/8/06 2:16:11 AM, farahbar@... writes:

         Aldosterone  Cortisol

Left IVC    31           27  

Left AV      4           26

Right IVC   22            9

Right AV   1385         1467

It appears that the left "adrenal" vein sample is not an adrenal vein as the cortisol should be much higher. There are several reasons for this. The left ovarian or testicular vein can drain directly into the left adrenal vein and if one is not careful the left "adrenal" sample will really be coming from the ovarian or testicular vein.

I dont know what the right and left IVC sample means. Usually it is the IVC below and above the adrenal veins that is sampled. This way of labeling makes me nervous that the samples could have been mixed up and this is the reason I try to have someone from my own lab (or me) in the xray room to assure that they are labeled correctly.

Was ACTH given before and during the study (and dex the night before)? If not then it is possible that the left was sampled first as it is usually the easiest to get into and it took some time and pain to get the right sample-the ususal story as the right is much harder to find and the stresses of doing that kicked up the endogenous ACTH so that the right appears to now be stimulated. In this case (if ACTH was not given) then I reoommend that the left be sampled again. In the old days we would put a cath in each AV to sample at the same time to minimize this.

So if the tumor is on the right side we still dont know what is going on on the left side.

My advice would be to keep on meds if they are doing a good job of controlling K and BP and not side effects.

May your pressure be low!

Dr. Clarence E. Grim, BS (Chem/Math), MS (Biochem), MD

Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertension

High Blood Pressure Consulting

Milwaukee, WI

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My endo doctor wrote " right " and " left " on the data sheet. However,

the data sheet identified the samples by the clock time the samples

were taken. I heard the conversation during the procedure which

identified the first samples taken as from the right side. The

doctor told ma after the procedure that he did the right side first

(no problems) and the left side next (some difficulty). I was told

before the procedure that ACTH would be administered. I don't know

the exact time(s). My endo doctor decided that dex not be given

based on info he had read from the Mayo clinic.

Do I understand correctly that the data from the left side is

worthless and that you recommend the procedure be repeated??

>

> In a message dated 2/8/06 2:16:11 AM, farahbar@... writes:

>

>

> >          Aldosterone  Cortisol

> >

> > Left IVC    31           27  

> > Left AV      4           26

> > Right IVC   22            9

> > Right AV   1385         1467

> >

>

> It appears that the left " adrenal " vein sample is not an adrenal

vein as the

> cortisol should be much higher. There are several reasons for

this. The

> left ovarian or testicular vein can drain directly into the left

adrenal vein

> and if one is not careful the left " adrenal " sample will really be

coming from

> the ovarian or testicular vein.

>

> I dont know what the right and left IVC sample means. Usually it

is the IVC

> below and above the adrenal veins that is sampled. This way of

labeling

> makes me nervous that the samples could have been mixed up and

this is the reason

> I try to have someone from my own lab (or me) in the xray room to

assure that

> they are labeled correctly.

>

> Was ACTH given before and during the study (and dex the night

before)? If

> not then it is possible that the left was sampled first as it is

usually the

> easiest to get into and it took some time and pain to get the

right sample-the

> ususal story as the right is much harder to find and the stresses

of doing that

> kicked up the endogenous ACTH so that the right appears to now be

stimulated.

> In this case (if ACTH was not given) then I reoommend that the

left be

> sampled again. In the old days we would put a cath in each AV to

sample at the

> same time to minimize this.

>

> So if the tumor is on the right side we still dont know what is

going on on

> the left side.

>

> My advice would be to keep on meds if they are doing a good job of

> controlling K and BP and not side effects.

>

>

>

>

>

> May your pressure be low!

>

> Dr. Clarence E. Grim, BS (Chem/Math), MS (Biochem), MD

> Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertension

> High Blood Pressure Consulting

> Milwaukee, WI

>

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How many is too many? If a percentage were known it would make the

decision easier. The Spiro has totally knocked out my sexual desire

(not good for the marriage), and the lack of testerone has a lot of

long term effects, ref. " The Testosterone Syndrome " by Eugene Shippen,

M.D. My GP told me Spiro studies have been done with people who had

other problems and it was difficult to predict what would happen

with " normal " people.

>

> I almost always recommend PA pts stay on meds as long as they control

the BP

> and the K and you feel OK.

>

> Esp Spiro or Inspra.

>

> I have had too many who developed HTN again after an adenoma is

removed.

> Indeed the original Conn's pt did this many years later.

>

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I'm taking 50mg twice per day of Spiro, 1%Androgel, claritin, saw

palmetto, singulair, multivitamin

> > >

> > > I almost always recommend PA pts stay on meds as long as they

control

> > the BP

> > > and the K and you feel OK.  

> > >

> > > Esp Spiro or Inspra.

> > >

> > > I have had too many who developed HTN again after an adenoma is

> > removed.   

> > > Indeed the original Conn's pt did this many years later.

> > >

> >

>

> With good AVS studies then 75% are cured.

>

> I would try Inspra, but how much spiro were you on and what else.

>

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The Saw was started after I began experiencing problems with

frequency and urgency of urination. The Saw proved to be

effective. I know that most sources can not be trusted, so I keep

to the same brand (Nutrilite) instead of shopping for the lowest

price. Shouldn't Saw cause a mild increase in testosterone?

The androgel is applied to my belly.

I haven't used the Dash book, but I add no salt to my food, eat lots

of fruits & veggies and am very careful about the salt content on

foods I buy. Eating out occasionally may up the salt, but I work to

order only foods I think have little salt.

- In hyperaldosteronism , lowerbp2@... wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 2/9/06 6:34:11 PM, mancoff@... writes:

>

>

> > I'm taking 50mg twice per day of Spiro, 1%Androgel, claritin, saw

> > palmetto, singulair, multivitamin

> >

>

> Have you tried backing down on Spiro and DASHing? Worth a try,

but in my

> exper once gynecomastia develops in men on spiro it has to be

stopped to get rid

> of the problem.

>

> Dont know the effects of Saw on sexual function but would not

take it you

> can never tell what is in it.

>

> How do you take the Androgel?

>

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