Re: Farah Re: Question re spiro for Dr Grim and Dave

[Guest guest]

If you read my review in our files you will better understand why the usual BP pills used today do not work in PA.

In a message dated 4/11/05 17:14:44, dave@... writes:

Yes, but they were confined to watching K levels, especially if you are

also using K-sparing diuretcis like ameloride, or ACE inhibitors,

because you don't want K too high, which can really be dangerous.  Less

dangerous, but still pertinent is the gynecomestia, or breast

tenderness/enlargement and other sex hormonal uptake problems.  The

other problems, in the literature, seem relatively rare.

It sure worked for me.  To have normal K and no dizzy spells or sleep

interruptions from polyuria has been such a relief.

Dave

On Apr 11, 2005, at 2:03 PM, gbrownrab wrote:

>

>

> What is your history with other bp meds?  I get a lot of side effects

> with regular bp meds but have never had to go to ER.  Were you warned

> about spiro side effects?

>

> Gloria

>

>

>

>> Greetings Dr. Grim and Dave:

>> I just started taking spiro today,. I am suppose to take 100mg/day.

> Took 50 mg this morning. My bp so far has stayed around 180+/120, hr

> in the 70s. Shall I continue taking it? I am afraid this med will land

> me in the emergency room again like other conventional bp medications.

>> Any suggestions? How long should I be taking this med before I see

> some results?

>>

>> Thanks,

>> Farah

>

>

[Guest guest]

This story is very common today and has always been in PA. See my review in our files on why BP is "resistant" to the usual BP meds used today and take a copy to every Dr. you go to. That will up date them as well.

You will help save other pts from going thru what you have had to go thru till you found a Dr who knew what he or she was doing.

Every Dr. learns about PA in medical school. There is really no good excuse for not making the diagnosis earlier today. After all it has now been 50 years since Dr. Conn reported the first case.

Indeed, I would consider it medical negligence to miss this disease today.-for very long anyway. Just listen to the patient and do Ks and all of the advanced cases will be picked up easily. All drug resistant pts shoujld have renin and aldo measured as the first step in trying to find the cause of Bad BP. I have been preaching this and publishing on this for at least 35 years.

I guess we need a better forum as the practioner's havent gotten this message.

This will be a big chapter in the book we are planning to write on : How to teach your Dr. how to take care of your high blood pressure.

In a message dated 4/11/05 16:48:26, farahbar@... writes:

No doctors I have ever visited have ever told me about side effects. With spiro I had to look up the info on-line about all the side effects. So far I am taking my chance and closely monitoring my bp and other symptoms. I took 1/2 the dosage my doctor recommended to be on the safe side and will increase in a couple of days if all goes well.

 

I didnt use to do research before until I learned the hard way. Other midications I took which I have a fairly good documentation  are such as Norvasc which I took(its supposed to be one of the safest drugs for bp), atenalol, hyzar(hr went up, cold sweats, severe hdache), cozar, diovan, plendil, cardizem, lotensin, acupril, ziac, atacand, and catapress(patch), nitro patch, my blood pressure went up  to 220/120 or higher severe heart palpitations, chest pains, tightness in my chest, difficulty breathing, wheasing, heart rate increasing to 120, difficulty seeing well. severe muscle pains, caughing, severe back pains, the last of them was Labetalol, upon taking a few my bp was 240/140, my entire body was shaking and I could not see well,. my hr went down to 30s and that one landed me in the ER. followed by 2 weeks of shivers like fevers and flushiing, then a rash

I have tried all of the above from taking only one pill to as much as a week's dose. Can't say I am allergic to them because I dont get a rash but I sure have severe side effects.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, BS (Chem/Math), MS (Biochem), MD, FACP, FACC, FAHS

Clinical Professor of Medicine and Epidemiology

Director, Hypertension Diagnosis and Treatment Center

Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertension

Published over 220 scientific papers, book chapters and 220 abstracts in the area of high blood pressure epidemiology, physiology, endocrinology measurement, treatment and how to detect curable causes.

Listed in Best Doctors in America

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the History and Physiology of High Blood pressure in the African Diaspora

[Guest guest]

I guarantee every Dr. has heard of Conn's syndrome and learned about it in Medical School and if they trained in Internal Medicine or Family Medicine everyone learns that it is at the top of the list for curable (sometimes) causes of high blood pressure.

Let me know if I can explain in better detail the paper. I would think we should try to get i published with a few of our groups "stories" in something important like Good Housekeeping or on the Ophra show.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, BS (Chem/Math), MS (Biochem), MD, FACP, FACC, FAHS

Clinical Professor of Medicine and Epidemiology

Director, Hypertension Diagnosis and Treatment Center

Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertension

Published over 220 scientific papers, book chapters and 220 abstracts in the area of high blood pressure epidemiology, physiology, endocrinology measurement, treatment and how to detect curable causes.

Listed in Best Doctors in America

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the History and Physiology of High Blood pressure in the African Diaspora

[Guest guest]

Please report this Dr. to the hosptial and complain about the poor treatment you got.

Unless we complain nothing happens.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, BS (Chem/Math), MS (Biochem), MD, FACP, FACC, FAHS

Clinical Professor of Medicine and Epidemiology

Director, Hypertension Diagnosis and Treatment Center

Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertension

Published over 220 scientific papers, book chapters and 220 abstracts in the area of high blood pressure epidemiology, physiology, endocrinology measurement, treatment and how to detect curable causes.

Listed in Best Doctors in America

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the History and Physiology of High Blood pressure in the African Diaspora

[Guest guest]

No doctors I have ever visited have ever told me about side effects. With spiro I had to look up the info on-line about all the side effects. So far I am taking my chance and closely monitoring my bp and other symptoms. I took 1/2 the dosage my doctor recommended to be on the safe side and will increase in a couple of days if all goes well.

I didnt use to do research before until I learned the hard way. Other midications I took which I have a fairly good documentation are such as Norvasc which I took(its supposed to be one of the safest drugs for bp), atenalol, hyzar(hr went up, cold sweats, severe hdache), cozar, diovan, plendil, cardizem, lotensin, acupril, ziac, atacand, and catapress(patch), nitro patch, my blood pressure went up to 220/120 or higher severe heart palpitations, chest pains, tightness in my chest, difficulty breathing, wheasing, heart rate increasing to 120, difficulty seeing well. severe muscle pains, caughing, severe back pains, the last of them was Labetalol, upon taking a few my bp was 240/140, my entire body was shaking and I could not see well,. my hr went down to 30s and that one landed me in the ER. followed by 2 weeks of shivers like fevers and flushiing, then a rash

I have tried all of the above from taking only one pill to as much as a week's dose. Can't say I am allergic to them because I dont get a rash but I sure have severe side effects.

Farah

gbrownrab <gbrownrab@...> wrote:

What is your history with other bp meds? I get a lot of side effects with regular bp meds but have never had to go to ER. Were you warned about spiro side effects?Gloria> Greetings Dr. Grim and Dave:> I just started taking spiro today,. I am suppose to take 100mg/day. Took 50 mg this morning. My bp so far has stayed around 180+/120, hr in the 70s. Shall I continue taking it? I am afraid this med will land me in the emergency room again like other conventional bp medications. > Any suggestions? How long should I be taking this med before I see some results?> > Thanks,> Farah

[Guest guest]

Yes, but they were confined to watching K levels, especially if you are

also using K-sparing diuretcis like ameloride, or ACE inhibitors,

because you don't want K too high, which can really be dangerous. Less

dangerous, but still pertinent is the gynecomestia, or breast

tenderness/enlargement and other sex hormonal uptake problems. The

other problems, in the literature, seem relatively rare.

It sure worked for me. To have normal K and no dizzy spells or sleep

interruptions from polyuria has been such a relief.

Dave

On Apr 11, 2005, at 2:03 PM, gbrownrab wrote:

>

>

> What is your history with other bp meds? I get a lot of side effects

> with regular bp meds but have never had to go to ER. Were you warned

> about spiro side effects?

>

> Gloria

>

>

>

>> Greetings Dr. Grim and Dave:

>> I just started taking spiro today,. I am suppose to take 100mg/day.

> Took 50 mg this morning. My bp so far has stayed around 180+/120, hr

> in the 70s. Shall I continue taking it? I am afraid this med will land

> me in the emergency room again like other conventional bp medications.

>> Any suggestions? How long should I be taking this med before I see

> some results?

>>

>> Thanks,

>> Farah

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well if you ever run across his name it is never too late.

You can still send an update to the ER staff now that your DX is clear. Tell them they should be embarassed to miss a Conn's in Conn's home state (I recall you are in Mich)-maybe not.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, BS (Chem/Math), MS (Biochem), MD, FACP, FACC, FAHS

Clinical Professor of Medicine and Epidemiology

Director, Hypertension Diagnosis and Treatment Center

Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertension

Published over 220 scientific papers, book chapters and 220 abstracts in the area of high blood pressure epidemiology, physiology, endocrinology measurement, treatment and how to detect curable causes.

Listed in Best Doctors in America

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the History and Physiology of High Blood pressure in the African Diaspora

[Guest guest]

Your papers are so important. I printed and read your files at least 5 times as a layman trying to understand whats happening. Makes so much sense. With your permission as soon as I get better, I plan to put a packet together and deliver and meet with every doctor who misdiagnosed me including those at Stanford. There is absolutely no excuse. But as soon as you mention PA, immediately they say oh that condition is so rare that you would not be needing to worry about. Even last week after I went to the hospital to check my vitals after the AVS, none of the doctors at the ER had even heard of an AVS or PA. One of them actually called my doctor at UCSF to get more info(I think he thought my husband and I were making up stories). And you think these are the newer younger doctors who perhaps may have at least read a chapter or two on the condition.

Thanks again Dr. Grim. Have a safe trip.

Farah

lowerbp2@... wrote:

If you read my review in our files you will better understand why the usual BP pills used today do not work in PA.In a message dated 4/11/05 17:14:44, dave@... writes:

Yes, but they were confined to watching K levels, especially if you arealso using K-sparing diuretcis like ameloride, or ACE inhibitors,because you don't want K too high, which can really be dangerous. Lessdangerous, but still pertinent is the gynecomestia, or breasttenderness/enlargement and other sex hormonal uptake problems. Theother problems, in the literature, seem relatively rare.It sure worked for me. To have normal K and no dizzy spells or sleepinterruptions from polyuria has been such a relief.DaveOn Apr 11, 2005, at 2:03 PM, gbrownrab wrote:>>> What is your history with other bp meds? I get a lot of side effects> with regular bp meds but have never had to go to ER. Were you

warned> about spiro side effects?>> Gloria>>> >> Greetings Dr. Grim and Dave:>> I just started taking spiro today,. I am suppose to take 100mg/day.> Took 50 mg this morning. My bp so far has stayed around 180+/120, hr> in the 70s. Shall I continue taking it? I am afraid this med will land> me in the emergency room again like other conventional bp medications.>> Any suggestions? How long should I be taking this med before I see> some results?>>>> Thanks,>> Farah>>

[Guest guest]

Had a Dr tell me in the er room with 185/120 b/p.

Well MR Dodge What can we do for u tonight this is the 3rd time in 2 weeks u have been here and i think u just need to chill out ands your b/p will come down on its own we dont deal with b/p probs here your DR does.

Well my b/p realy went up then i wanted to get that guy LOL

they sent me home with 170/110 b/p also with chest pains and a pults of 155

Thanks Mark

PS the dr was in his 20s

Re: Farah Re: Question re spiro for Dr Grim and Dave

Your papers are so important. I printed and read your files at least 5 times as a layman trying to understand whats happening. Makes so much sense. With your permission as soon as I get better, I plan to put a packet together and deliver and meet with every doctor who misdiagnosed me including those at Stanford. There is absolutely no excuse. But as soon as you mention PA, immediately they say oh that condition is so rare that you would not be needing to worry about. Even last week after I went to the hospital to check my vitals after the AVS, none of the doctors at the ER had even heard of an AVS or PA. One of them actually called my doctor at UCSF to get more info(I think he thought my husband and I were making up stories). And you think these are the newer younger doctors who perhaps may have at least read a chapter or two on the condition.

Thanks again Dr. Grim. Have a safe trip.

Farah

lowerbp2@... wrote:

If you read my review in our files you will better understand why the usual BP pills used today do not work in PA.In a message dated 4/11/05 17:14:44, dave@... writes:

Yes, but they were confined to watching K levels, especially if you arealso using K-sparing diuretcis like ameloride, or ACE inhibitors,because you don't want K too high, which can really be dangerous. Lessdangerous, but still pertinent is the gynecomestia, or breasttenderness/enlargement and other sex hormonal uptake problems. Theother problems, in the literature, seem relatively rare.It sure worked for me. To have normal K and no dizzy spells or sleepinterruptions from polyuria has been such a relief.DaveOn Apr 11, 2005, at 2:03 PM, gbrownrab wrote:>>> What is your history with other bp meds? I get a lot of side effects> with regular bp meds but have never had to go to ER. Were you warned> about spiro side effects?>> Gloria>>> >> Greetings Dr. Grim and Dave:>> I just started taking spiro today,. I am suppose to take 100mg/day.> Took 50 mg this morning. My bp so far has stayed around 180+/120, hr> in the 70s. Shall I continue taking it? I am afraid this med will land> me in the emergency room again like other conventional bp medications.>> Any suggestions? How long should I be taking this med before I see> some results?>>>> Thanks,>> Farah>>

[Guest guest]

Dr Grim that was 2 yrs ago when i got with the group.

what can i do i dont even remember the drs name but Butt Head LOL

Thanks

Mark

Re: Farah Re: Question re spiro for Dr Grim and Dave

Please report this Dr. to the hosptial and complain about the poor treatment you got. Unless we complain nothing happens. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS (Chem/Math), MS (Biochem), MD, FACP, FACC, FAHSClinical Professor of Medicine and EpidemiologyDirector, Hypertension Diagnosis and Treatment CenterBoard Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and HypertensionPublished over 220 scientific papers, book chapters and 220 abstracts in the area of high blood pressure epidemiology, physiology, endocrinology measurement, treatment and how to detect curable causes.Listed in Best Doctors in AmericaSpecializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the History and Physiology of High Blood pressure in the African Diaspora

[Guest guest]

Ill go on Opra

LOL

Thanks

Mark

Re: Farah Re: Question re spiro for Dr Grim and Dave

I guarantee every Dr. has heard of Conn's syndrome and learned about it in Medical School and if they trained in Internal Medicine or Family Medicine everyone learns that it is at the top of the list for curable (sometimes) causes of high blood pressure. Let me know if I can explain in better detail the paper. I would think we should try to get i published with a few of our groups "stories" in something important like Good Housekeeping or on the Ophra show. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS (Chem/Math), MS (Biochem), MD, FACP, FACC, FAHSClinical Professor of Medicine and EpidemiologyDirector, Hypertension Diagnosis and Treatment CenterBoard Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and HypertensionPublished over 220 scientific papers, book chapters and 220 abstracts in the area of high blood pressure epidemiology, physiology, endocrinology measurement, treatment and how to detect curable causes.Listed in Best Doctors in AmericaSpecializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the History and Physiology of High Blood pressure in the African Diaspora

[Guest guest]

Hi, Mike

I guess it depends upon who you happen to bump into.

I agree that the doctor Mark had was a jerk. He

should have at least run a few tests to make sure

nothing serious was going wrong.

I've had a number of trips to the emergency room for

hypertension (always at the insistence of doctors who

discovered my blood pressure to be quite high when I

made a visit to their offices).

Sometimes I got treatment, sometimes I was just

observed, tested, and dismissed. As you say, I did

end up showing problems on the ECG they did in the ER

and an enlarged heart on the X-ray they did there in

the ER. That was probably when they decided it was

malignant. Then they gave me clonidine, which made me

sleep for a few hours, and sent me home. They were

threatening to admit me if my blood pressure had not

gone down.

Interestingly, (probably not to you guys, but it's a

woman thing), I think I was on my period three out of

three times when I went to the ER with hypertension.

I think there must be something about the rapidly

changing hormone levels that drives blood pressure up.

(Something to think about when you fellows are

complaining about the effects of Spironolactone.

Being a guy on Spiro may be rough, but being a woman

does not solve it all!)

My blood pressure was 167/113, 180/120, and 240/200 in

the emergency room those three times. All of that

happened before I was diagnosed with CHF and treated

with Spironolactone.

Warmly,

Pam

--- lord_mike_the_great

<lord_mike_the_great@...> wrote:

>

>

> Last year, my BP was very high in my primary care

> doctor's office

> (like what you are describing). He was, of course,

> very concerned.

> I asked if I should go to the ER. He said no, all

> they'll do is

> send you home. I've read the protocols for

> malignant hypertension,

> but the problem is, if you don't have organ damage

> already, you are

> not malignant. Hypertensive urgency is not

> considered an emergency,

> so they kick you out.

>

> I've found that E.R. doctors are quite incompetant.

> They know just

> enough about everything to be dangerous, but not

> enough to be

> helpful. THey are also arrogant as all get out. It

> isn't like the

> TV show, I tell you what....

>

> when my colitis flared up real bad and ended up in

> the hospital, I

> had the option to go to the E.R. I refused, since I

> figured they

> wouldn't know what to do with me there. The delay

> was probably

> unwise on my part, but I really didn't want to deal

> with incompetant

> E.R. docs...

>

> Thanks,

>

> Mike

>

>

>

>

> > >> Greetings Dr. Grim and Dave:

> > >> I just started taking spiro today,. I am

> suppose to take

> 100mg/day.

> > > Took 50 mg this morning. My bp so far has

> stayed around

> 180+/120, hr

> > > in the 70s. Shall I continue taking it? I

> am afraid this

> med will land

> > > me in the emergency room again like other

> conventional bp

> medications.

> > >> Any suggestions? How long should I be

> taking this med

> before I see

> > > some results?

> > >>

> > >> Thanks,

> > >> Farah

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Pam,

Interesting you mention the "women thing" for yrs I've noticed that during my cycles my bp goes up. When I discussed it with my obgyn she told me she never heard of such a thing. Since my bp was always normal when I happened to go there, she said not to worry about it. When I mentioned it to my prim.care doctor he told me that this means I have hypertention and I only notice it then, and insisted to put me on medication. I guess when the astrodial is low, somehow it effects the RA. I wonder if anyone has done any studies on this!

FarahPamela s <spirlhelix@...> wrote:

Hi, MikeI guess it depends upon who you happen to bump into.I agree that the doctor Mark had was a jerk. Heshould have at least run a few tests to make surenothing serious was going wrong.I've had a number of trips to the emergency room forhypertension (always at the insistence of doctors whodiscovered my blood pressure to be quite high when Imade a visit to their offices).Sometimes I got treatment, sometimes I was justobserved, tested, and dismissed. As you say, I didend up showing problems on the ECG they did in the ERand an enlarged heart on the X-ray they did there inthe ER. That was probably when they decided it wasmalignant. Then they gave me clonidine, which made mesleep for a few hours, and sent me home. They werethreatening to admit me if my blood pressure had

notgone down.Interestingly, (probably not to you guys, but it's awoman thing), I think I was on my period three out ofthree times when I went to the ER with hypertension.I think there must be something about the rapidlychanging hormone levels that drives blood pressure up.(Something to think about when you fellows arecomplaining about the effects of Spironolactone. Being a guy on Spiro may be rough, but being a womandoes not solve it all!)My blood pressure was 167/113, 180/120, and 240/200 inthe emergency room those three times. All of thathappened before I was diagnosed with CHF and treatedwith Spironolactone.Warmly,Pam --- lord_mike_the_great<lord_mike_the_great@...> wrote:> > > Last year, my BP was very high in my primary care> doctor's office > (like what you are describing). He was, of course,>

very concerned. > I asked if I should go to the ER. He said no, all> they'll do is > send you home. I've read the protocols for> malignant hypertension, > but the problem is, if you don't have organ damage> already, you are > not malignant. Hypertensive urgency is not> considered an emergency, > so they kick you out.> > I've found that E.R. doctors are quite incompetant. > They know just > enough about everything to be dangerous, but not> enough to be > helpful. THey are also arrogant as all get out. It> isn't like the > TV show, I tell you what.... > > when my colitis flared up real bad and ended up in> the hospital, I > had the option to go to the E.R. I refused, since I> figured they > wouldn't know what to do with me there. The delay> was probably >

unwise on my part, but I really didn't want to deal> with incompetant > E.R. docs...> > Thanks,> > Mike > > > > > > >> Greetings Dr. Grim and Dave:> > >> I just started taking spiro today,. I am> suppose to take > 100mg/day.> > > Took 50 mg this morning. My bp so far has> stayed around > 180+/120, hr> > > in the 70s. Shall I continue taking it? I> am afraid this > med will land> > > me in the emergency room again like other> conventional bp > medications.> > >> Any suggestions? How long should I be> taking this med > before I see> > > some results?>

> >>> > >> Thanks,> > >> Farah> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi, Dave

Sorry, you lost me. Could you elaborate?

Warmly,

Pam

--- Dave <dave@...> wrote:

> My first impulse is when hormones recycle, all of

> them, and their

> chemical partners are affected. The rest is

> his/herstory.

>

> Dave

>

> On Apr 12, 2005, at 1:07 PM, Farah Rahbar wrote:

>

> > Hi Pam,

> > Interesting you mention the " women thing " for yrs

> I've noticed that

> > during my cycles my bp goes up. When I discussed

> it with my obgyn she

> > told me she never heard of such a thing. Since my

> bp was always normal

> > when I happened to go there, she said not to worry

> about it. When I

> > mentioned it to my prim.care doctor he told me

> that this means I have

> > hypertention and I only notice it then, and

> insisted to put me on

> > medication. I guess when the astrodial is low,

> somehow it effects the

> > RA. I wonder if anyone has done any studies on

> this!

> >  

> > Farah

> >

> > Pamela s <spirlhelix@...> wrote:

> > Hi, Mike

> >

>

" I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing, than to teach ten thousand stars

how not to dance. "

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi, Dr. Grim

I get the high blood pressure effect just about on the

same day I am losing most of my water weight with my

period (my first heavy day). This makes no sense at

all, I suppose, strictly in terms of hypervolemia,

unless we take the fluctuating estrogen and

progesterone into account as a factor affecting

aldosterone levels.

Birth control pills replicate a " pregnant " hormonal

profile, am I correct? Yet I have read that high

blood pressure with aldosteronism during pregnancy is

very unusual. At least, I seem to recall an article

which noted that most women with aldosteronism had

blood pressure under better control while pregnant.

Do you know whether this is true? I'm wondering how

menopause (less estrogen) might affect hypertension

secondary to aldosteronism. I don't have to worry

about it yet, but I'd rather have some idea what might

happen.

Warmly,

Pam

--- lowerbp2@... wrote:

> Many women gain weight with cycle and some get an

> increase in BP. BCPs can

> increase BP as well.

>

>

>

> May your pressure be low!

>

> Clarence E. Grim, BS (Chem/Math), MS (Biochem), MD,

> FACP, FACC, FAHS

> Clinical Professor of Medicine and Epidemiology

> Director, Hypertension Diagnosis and Treatment

> Center

> Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and

> Hypertension

>

> Published over 220 scientific papers, book chapters

> and 220 abstracts in the

> area of high blood pressure epidemiology,

> physiology, endocrinology

> measurement, treatment and how to detect curable

> causes.

> Listed in Best Doctors in America

> Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood

> Pressure and the History and

> Physiology of High Blood pressure in the African

> Diaspora

>

>

" I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing, than to teach ten thousand stars

how not to dance. "

__________________________________

Mobile

Take with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

http://mobile./learn/mail

[Guest guest]

Question Is Inspra a diaretic?

Thanks

Mark

Re: Farah Re: Question re spiro for Dr Grim and Dave

In a message dated 4/13/05 0:02:22, spirlhelix@... writes:

At least, I seem to recall an articlewhich noted that most women with aldosteronism hadblood pressure under better control while pregnant. progesterone is an natural aldo antagonist this is thought to be the reason BP may become normal during preg in pts with PA. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS (Chem/Math), MS (Biochem), MD, FACP, FACC, FAHSClinical Professor of Medicine and EpidemiologyDirector, Hypertension Diagnosis and Treatment CenterBoard Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and HypertensionPublished over 220 scientific papers, book chapters and 220 abstracts in the area of high blood pressure epidemiology, physiology, endocrinology measurement, treatment and how to detect curable causes.Listed in Best Doctors in AmericaSpecializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the History and Physiology of High Blood pressure in the African Diaspora

[Guest guest]

I've been on Spiro for 4 days now. I notice that my hr is going up in the 80s from the regular 60's and 70's, though my bp is slowly dropping. I am also feeling very sleepy and tired. Is this normal? is everyone else on Spiro having the same reaction? I guess it makes sense for the hr to go up to force down the blood pressure!

Farahlowerbp2@... wrote:

It is an aldosteron antagonist. It occupites the mineralocorticoid receptor so aldo cant get to it.

If you have excess aldo, sodium excretion goes up and urine volume may or may not go up. It is more of a natriuretic than and diuretic.

Indeed, as the aldo is blocked many will lose the problem of having to get up to pee at night and can get a good nights sleep.

May your pressure be low!CE Grim MDClinical Professor of Internal MedicineProfessor of EpidemiologyBoard Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertension

Re: Farah Re: Question re spiro for Dr Grim and Dave

Question Is Inspra a diaretic?

Thanks

Mark

Re: Farah Re: Question re spiro for Dr Grim and Dave

In a message dated 4/13/05 0:02:22, spirlhelix@... writes:

At least, I seem to recall an articlewhich noted that most women with aldosteronism hadblood pressure under better control while pregnant. progesterone is an natural aldo antagonist this is thought to be the reason BP may become normal during preg in pts with PA. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS (Chem/Math), MS (Biochem), MD, FACP, FACC, FAHSClinical Professor of Medicine and EpidemiologyDirector, Hypertension Diagnosis and Treatment CenterBoard Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and HypertensionPublished over 220 scientific papers, book chapters and

220 abstracts in the area of high blood pressure epidemiology, physiology, endocrinology measurement, treatment and how to detect curable causes.Listed in Best Doctors in AmericaSpecializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the History and Physiology of High Blood pressure in the African Diaspora

[Guest guest]

For awhile, maybe 3-5 weeks, the literature says. But then the hr

should return to familiar cyclic performance, barring other major

changes.

Feeling tired can also be a contrast experience of relaxation, also a

frequently reported effect (usually a welcome one for PA pts).

Dave

On Apr 13, 2005, at 5:52 PM, Farah Rahbar wrote:

> I've been on Spiro for 4 days now. I notice that my hr is going up in

> the 80s from the regular 60's and 70's, though my bp is slowly

> dropping. I am also feeling very sleepy and tired. Is this normal? is

> everyone else on Spiro having the same reaction? I guess it makes

> sense for the hr to go up to force down the blood pressure!

> Farah

>

> lowerbp2@... wrote:

> It is an aldosteron antagonist.  It occupites the mineralocorticoid

> receptor so aldo cant get to it.

>  

> If you have excess aldo, sodium excretion goes up and urine volume may

> or may not go up. It is more of a natriuretic than and diuretic.

>  

> Indeed, as the aldo is blocked many will lose the problem of having to

> get up to pee at night and can get a good nights sleep.  

>  

>

>

>

> May your pressure be low!

>

> CE Grim MD

> Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine

> Professor of Epidemiology

>

> Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertension

[Guest guest]

Nope the heart rate goes up to try to keep the BP up where it was before. This is the baroreceptor reflex. BP should be going down soon I would guess. Usually no sleepiness.

What else are you taking incuding OTC or herbs or vitamins etc.

May your pressure be low!CE Grim MDClinical Professor of Internal MedicineProfessor of EpidemiologyBoard Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertension

Re: Farah Re: Question re spiro for Dr Grim and Dave

For awhile, maybe 3-5 weeks, the literature says. But then the hr should return to familiar cyclic performance, barring other major changes. Feeling tired can also be a contrast experience of relaxation, also a frequently reported effect (usually a welcome one for PA pts). Dave On Apr 13, 2005, at 5:52 PM, Farah Rahbar wrote: > I've been on Spiro for 4 days now. I notice that my hr is going up in > the 80s from the regular 60's and 70's, though my bp is slowly > dropping. I am also feeling very sleepy and tired. Is this normal? is > everyone else on Spiro having the same reaction? I guess it makes > sense for the hr to go up to force down the blood pressure! > Farah > > lowerbp2@... wrote: > It is an aldosteron antagonist. It occupites the mineralocorticoid > receptor so aldo cant get to it. > > If you have excess aldo, sodium excretion goes up and urine volume may > or may not go up. It is more of a natriuretic than and diuretic. > > Indeed, as the aldo is blocked many will lose the problem of having to > get up to pee at night and can get a good nights sleep. > > > > > May your pressure be low! > > CE Grim MD > Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine > Professor of Epidemiology > > Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertension

[Guest guest]

I am not taking anything other than spiro. No otc, no vitamins, etc. I was advised by my md at the time of diagnosis to stop taking any vitamins, etc including otcs for best test results and for surgery. I am taking 50 mg of spiro in the am, then another 25mg at dinner. Will up the dose to 100 tomorrow.

Farahlowerbp2@... wrote:

Nope the heart rate goes up to try to keep the BP up where it was before. This is the baroreceptor reflex. BP should be going down soon I would guess. Usually no sleepiness.

What else are you taking incuding OTC or herbs or vitamins etc.

May your pressure be low!CE Grim MDClinical Professor of Internal MedicineProfessor of EpidemiologyBoard Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertension

Re: Farah Re: Question re spiro for Dr Grim and Dave

For awhile, maybe 3-5 weeks, the literature says. But then the hr should return to familiar cyclic performance, barring other major changes. Feeling tired can also be a contrast experience of relaxation, also a frequently reported effect (usually a welcome one for PA pts). Dave On Apr 13, 2005, at 5:52 PM, Farah Rahbar wrote: > I've been on Spiro for 4 days now. I notice that my hr is going up in > the 80s from the regular 60's and 70's, though my bp is slowly > dropping. I am also feeling very sleepy and tired. Is this normal? is > everyone else on Spiro having the same reaction? I guess it makes > sense for the hr to go up to force down the blood pressure! > Farah > > lowerbp2@... wrote: > It is an aldosteron

antagonist. It occupites the mineralocorticoid > receptor so aldo cant get to it. > > If you have excess aldo, sodium excretion goes up and urine volume may > or may not go up. It is more of a natriuretic than and diuretic. > > Indeed, as the aldo is blocked many will lose the problem of having to > get up to pee at night and can get a good nights sleep. > > > > > May your pressure be low! > > CE Grim MD > Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine > Professor of Epidemiology > > Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertension

[Guest guest]

WEll i was just thinkin ( TROUBLE ) i was on spero and did not get the excess water at 2000 mlg of salt and now im getting the fat hands and feet my prim dr said we may need to take the atenolol away and give me a diuretic and it would help b\p more than the bb.

ya think

Thanks

Mark

Re: Farah Re: Question re spiro for Dr Grim and Dave

In a message dated 4/13/05 0:02:22, spirlhelix@... writes:

At least, I seem to recall an articlewhich noted that most women with aldosteronism hadblood pressure under better control while pregnant. progesterone is an natural aldo antagonist this is thought to be the reason BP may become normal during preg in pts with PA. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS (Chem/Math), MS (Biochem), MD, FACP, FACC, FAHSClinical Professor of Medicine and EpidemiologyDirector, Hypertension Diagnosis and Treatment CenterBoard Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and HypertensionPublished over 220 scientific papers, book chapters and 220 abstracts in the area of high blood pressure epidemiology, physiology, endocrinology measurement, treatment and how to detect curable causes.Listed in Best Doctors in AmericaSpecializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the History and Physiology of High Blood pressure in the African Diaspora

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/13/05 21:42:32, thewhiningpplz@... writes:

WEll i was just thinkin ( TROUBLE ) i was on spero and did not get the excess water at 2000 mlg of salt and now im getting the fat hands and feet my prim dr said we may need to take the atenolol away and give me a diuretic and it would help b\p more than the bb.

ya think

Thanks

Mark

Must be some sodium creeping in somewhere. Read evey label etc.

May your pressure be low!

Clarence E. Grim, BS (Chem/Math), MS (Biochem), MD, FACP, FACC, FAHS

Clinical Professor of Medicine and Epidemiology

Director, Hypertension Diagnosis and Treatment Center

Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertension

Published over 220 scientific papers, book chapters and 220 abstracts in the area of high blood pressure epidemiology, physiology, endocrinology measurement, treatment and how to detect curable causes.

Listed in Best Doctors in America

Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the History and Physiology of High Blood pressure in the African Diaspora

[Guest guest]

Dr. Grim, I was also surprised at how many missed it in your own state (and city!)... at last count I was up to 7 (Brookfield and Waukesha), although I'm especially fond of the ones who told me to seek psychological help for coping with stress and the ones who accused me of abusing laxatives. You can sign me up for Oprah, too!

Re: Farah Re: Question re spiro for Dr Grim and Dave

Well if you ever run across his name it is never too late.You can still send an update to the ER staff now that your DX is clear. Tell them they should be embarassed to miss a Conn's in Conn's home state (I recall you are in Mich)-maybe not.May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS (Chem/Math), MS (Biochem), MD, FACP, FACC, FAHSClinical Professor of Medicine and EpidemiologyDirector, Hypertension Diagnosis and Treatment CenterBoard Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and HypertensionPublished over 220 scientific papers, book chapters and 220 abstracts in the area of high blood pressure epidemiology, physiology, endocrinology measurement, treatment and how to detect curable causes.Listed in Best Doctors in AmericaSpecializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the History and Physiology of High Blood pressure in the African Diaspora

[Guest guest]

I offered to drop off copies of Dr. Grim's papers to one of my Dr's last year and the response was, "I understand the disease process! Your sodium isn't high." And he sent me off with some samples of atenolol, I believe. I took one... Called my nephrologist (I saw the first Dr. for something totally unrelated, but he picked up on my BP being high), and he switched me from atenolol to nifedipine after I got in a shouting match with his nurse (he wouldn't even talk to me directly) over the correct way to treat me. "There are lots of causes of high BP, we can't say for sure that aldo is causing the increased BP today and you're already on the highest allowed dose of Spiro." I was on 50 mg.

He left his practice last month. I rejoiced.

Re: Farah Re: Question re spiro for Dr Grim and Dave

Well if you ever run across his name it is never too late.You can still send an update to the ER staff now that your DX is clear. Tell them they should be embarassed to miss a Conn's in Conn's home state (I recall you are in Mich)-maybe not.May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS (Chem/Math), MS (Biochem), MD, FACP, FACC, FAHSClinical Professor of Medicine and EpidemiologyDirector, Hypertension Diagnosis and Treatment CenterBoard Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and HypertensionPublished over 220 scientific papers, book chapters and 220 abstracts in the area of high blood pressure epidemiology, physiology, endocrinology measurement, treatment and how to detect curable causes.Listed in Best Doctors in AmericaSpecializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the History and Physiology of High Blood pressure in the African Diaspora

[Guest guest]

I'll second that! After two days of severe GI losses and not eating, I went to the ER with both arms numb, hands frozen in a claw-like position. No blood work taken, was told I probably hyperventilated but didn't realize it and to go home and relax. A few months earlier, same ER, different Dr. DID do blood work and accused me of laxative abuse when he saw how low the K was.

Farah Re: Question re spiro for Dr Grim and Dave

Last year, my BP was very high in my primary care doctor's office (like what you are describing). He was, of course, very concerned. I asked if I should go to the ER. He said no, all they'll do is send you home. I've read the protocols for malignant hypertension, but the problem is, if you don't have organ damage already, you are not malignant. Hypertensive urgency is not considered an emergency, so they kick you out.I've found that E.R. doctors are quite incompetant. They know just enough about everything to be dangerous, but not enough to be helpful. THey are also arrogant as all get out. It isn't like the TV show, I tell you what.... when my colitis flared up real bad and ended up in the hospital, I had the option to go to the E.R. I refused, since I figured they wouldn't know what to do with me there. The delay was probably unwise on my part, but I really didn't want to deal with incompetant E.R. docs...Thanks,Mike > >> Greetings Dr. Grim and Dave:> >> I just started taking spiro today,. I am suppose to take 100mg/day.> > Took 50 mg this morning. My bp so far has stayed around 180+/120, hr> > in the 70s. Shall I continue taking it? I am afraid this med will land> > me in the emergency room again like other conventional bp medications.> >> Any suggestions? How long should I be taking this med before I see> > some results?> >>> >> Thanks,> >> Farah> >> >> > > > > >