Re: studies show gi tract discomfort associated with inulin.....

[Guest guest]

> for those who enjoy scientific articles, pubmed makes it clear that

> inulin does have side effects including gastrointestinal

> discomfort... see:

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=10395624 & query_hl=8

>

Here's the exact quote: " Mild gastrointestinal discomfort was more

common during the inulin than the control food phase; however, the

gastrointestinal side-effect profile of inulin was similar to that of

other soluble fibers. "

> so duncan, your claim that SCD " zealots " unfairly malign artificial

> inulin supplements appears to be without merit. they are making a

> valid point, you just don't like it.

, " Mild gastrointestinal discomfort " is hardly ammunition for a

case against fermentation because a degree of gas is a normal product

of fermentation and the gut is a fermentation vessel. This is how we

evolved, and without the fermentation most of the beneficial qualities

due to the end products of probiotics would be unavailable. Anyway,

the subjects were given 18 g/day right off the bat without ramping it up.

Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

ok duncan. i sure inulin is perfectly great stuff. funny i don't

recally anyone saying it helped cure them.. just recall people

complaining about discomfort and diarreah. then you attacking them

saying they didn't take it long enough or something along those

lines. what a crock.

g

> > for those who enjoy scientific articles, pubmed makes it clear

that

> > inulin does have side effects including gastrointestinal

> > discomfort... see:

> >

> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> > cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=10395624 & query_hl=8

> >

>

> Here's the exact quote: " Mild gastrointestinal discomfort was more

> common during the inulin than the control food phase; however, the

> gastrointestinal side-effect profile of inulin was similar to that

of

> other soluble fibers. "

>

> > so duncan, your claim that SCD " zealots " unfairly malign

artificial

> > inulin supplements appears to be without merit. they are making

a

> > valid point, you just don't like it.

>

> , " Mild gastrointestinal discomfort " is hardly ammunition for a

> case against fermentation because a degree of gas is a normal

product

> of fermentation and the gut is a fermentation vessel. This is how we

> evolved, and without the fermentation most of the beneficial

qualities

> due to the end products of probiotics would be unavailable. Anyway,

> the subjects were given 18 g/day right off the bat without ramping

it up.

>

> Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

, I don't know you and I don't know Duncan, but I have to say you are wrong

on this one. The

very article you pointed to was about a study using foods that contained inulin,

not refined

inulin like what Duncan sells. I don't even think you read the article very

carefully. It also

goes on to say that the gastrointestinal effect was the same as other soluble

fibers. Also, as

your link did not work correctly when I first clicked on it, I searched that

site for inulin and

found a few articles there that actually support inulin. You seem to ber really

reaching to try to

make a point here. So far Duncan has supported his arguments with good facts,

you have not. It

looks to me like you are the one with a hidden agenda. You have tried to

discount Duncan's inlulin

with faulty logic and twisting of the facts. I feel like you are trying to make

it harder for me

to figure out the truth. What's up with that? And what the hell is a scd

zealot, anyway?

-MM

From your article - notice " inulin-containing foods " :

A recent study examined the effect of consuming three servings per day of

inulin-containing

foods, compared with the effect of similar foods without inulin, on serum lipid

profiles among

hypercholesterolemic men and women. In addition, the practicality of including

18 g/d of inulin in

a low fat diet was investigated. The recent study randomized, double-blind,

crossover trial with

two 6-wk treatment periods, separated by a 6-wk washout. Men and women (n = 21)

with baseline LDL

increased significantly (7.4 and 12.3%, respectively) during the control phase.

There were small,

nonsignificant declines in total (1.3%) and LDL-C (2.1%) during the inulin

phase. Thus,

differences in response between periods (inulin - control) were significant (P <

0.05) for LDL-C

(-14.4%) and total cholesterol (-8.7%). Mild gastrointestinal discomfort was

more common during

the inulin than the control food phase; however, the gastrointestinal

side-effect profile of

inulin was similar to that of other soluble fibers.

--- jcgre <johngrellner@...> wrote:

> for those who enjoy scientific articles, pubmed makes it clear that

> inulin does have side effects including gastrointestinal

> discomfort... see:

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=10395624 & query_hl=8

>

> a simple search on pub med provides ample proof of this fact...

> because duncan is right, we should look at the facts. i seriously

> doubt whether food rich in inulin has the same effect. why7 because

> its balenced with other nutrients so that it can naturally pass

> through the gi tract without artificially manipulating the intestinal

> flora.

>

> so duncan, your claim that SCD " zealots " unfairly malign artificial

> inulin supplements appears to be without merit. they are making a

> valid point, you just don't like it.

>

> g

>

>

>

>

>

> > > > People report side effects, unpleasant gi tract symptoms... the

> > hidden

> > > > danger is that this franken food will increase your bysbiosis

> > > > problems. search the archives, this is nothing new.

> > > >

> > > > john g

> > >

> > > G appears to equate the the water extraction of a soluble

> fiber

> > > similar to starch but less digestible, with frankenfood. Whether a

> > > frankenfood might increase dysbiosis is immaterial to this

> thread.

> > >

> > > Even antibiotic-associated diarrhea and general dysbiosis in

> > animals,

> > > humans included, responded favourably to inulin supplementation,

> > even

> > > " native inulin " which is 6% to 11% sugar and abut 3% FOS.

> > >

> > > Lactobacilli produce gas. Lactobacillus acidophilus is probably

> the

> > > bst known probiotic. Bifidobacteria do not produce gas. Generally

> > > speaking, fermentation in the gut produces gas. It wouldn't be

> > > fermentation if it didn't

> > >

> > > This is part of the research G wouldn't read.

> > >

> > > Duncan Crow

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I don't know you and I don't know Duncan, but I have to say you are wrong

on this one. The

very article you pointed to was about a study using foods that contained inulin,

not refined

inulin like what Duncan sells. I don't even think you read the article very

carefully. It also

goes on to say that the gastrointestinal effect was the same as other soluble

fibers. Also, as

your link did not work correctly when I first clicked on it, I searched that

site for inulin and

found a few articles there that actually support inulin. You seem to ber really

reaching to try to

make a point here. So far Duncan has supported his arguments with good facts,

you have not. It

looks to me like you are the one with a hidden agenda. You have tried to

discount Duncan's inlulin

with faulty logic and twisting of the facts. I feel like you are trying to make

it harder for me

to figure out the truth. What's up with that? And what the hell is a scd

zealot, anyway?

-MM

From your article - notice " inulin-containing foods " :

A recent study examined the effect of consuming three servings per day of

inulin-containing

foods, compared with the effect of similar foods without inulin, on serum lipid

profiles among

hypercholesterolemic men and women. In addition, the practicality of including

18 g/d of inulin in

a low fat diet was investigated. The recent study randomized, double-blind,

crossover trial with

two 6-wk treatment periods, separated by a 6-wk washout. Men and women (n = 21)

with baseline LDL

increased significantly (7.4 and 12.3%, respectively) during the control phase.

There were small,

nonsignificant declines in total (1.3%) and LDL-C (2.1%) during the inulin

phase. Thus,

differences in response between periods (inulin - control) were significant (P <

0.05) for LDL-C

(-14.4%) and total cholesterol (-8.7%). Mild gastrointestinal discomfort was

more common during

the inulin than the control food phase; however, the gastrointestinal

side-effect profile of

inulin was similar to that of other soluble fibers.

--- jcgre <johngrellner@...> wrote:

> for those who enjoy scientific articles, pubmed makes it clear that

> inulin does have side effects including gastrointestinal

> discomfort... see:

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=10395624 & query_hl=8

>

> a simple search on pub med provides ample proof of this fact...

> because duncan is right, we should look at the facts. i seriously

> doubt whether food rich in inulin has the same effect. why7 because

> its balenced with other nutrients so that it can naturally pass

> through the gi tract without artificially manipulating the intestinal

> flora.

>

> so duncan, your claim that SCD " zealots " unfairly malign artificial

> inulin supplements appears to be without merit. they are making a

> valid point, you just don't like it.

>

> g

>

>

>

>

>

> > > > People report side effects, unpleasant gi tract symptoms... the

> > hidden

> > > > danger is that this franken food will increase your bysbiosis

> > > > problems. search the archives, this is nothing new.

> > > >

> > > > john g

> > >

> > > G appears to equate the the water extraction of a soluble

> fiber

> > > similar to starch but less digestible, with frankenfood. Whether a

> > > frankenfood might increase dysbiosis is immaterial to this

> thread.

> > >

> > > Even antibiotic-associated diarrhea and general dysbiosis in

> > animals,

> > > humans included, responded favourably to inulin supplementation,

> > even

> > > " native inulin " which is 6% to 11% sugar and abut 3% FOS.

> > >

> > > Lactobacilli produce gas. Lactobacillus acidophilus is probably

> the

> > > bst known probiotic. Bifidobacteria do not produce gas. Generally

> > > speaking, fermentation in the gut produces gas. It wouldn't be

> > > fermentation if it didn't

> > >

> > > This is part of the research G wouldn't read.

> > >

> > > Duncan Crow

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I don't know you and I don't know Duncan, but I have to say you are wrong

on this one. The

very article you pointed to was about a study using foods that contained inulin,

not refined

inulin like what Duncan sells. I don't even think you read the article very

carefully. It also

goes on to say that the gastrointestinal effect was the same as other soluble

fibers. Also, as

your link did not work correctly when I first clicked on it, I searched that

site for inulin and

found a few articles there that actually support inulin. You seem to ber really

reaching to try to

make a point here. So far Duncan has supported his arguments with good facts,

you have not. It

looks to me like you are the one with a hidden agenda. You have tried to

discount Duncan's inlulin

with faulty logic and twisting of the facts. I feel like you are trying to make

it harder for me

to figure out the truth. What's up with that? And what the hell is a scd

zealot, anyway?

-MM

From your article - notice " inulin-containing foods " :

A recent study examined the effect of consuming three servings per day of

inulin-containing

foods, compared with the effect of similar foods without inulin, on serum lipid

profiles among

hypercholesterolemic men and women. In addition, the practicality of including

18 g/d of inulin in

a low fat diet was investigated. The recent study randomized, double-blind,

crossover trial with

two 6-wk treatment periods, separated by a 6-wk washout. Men and women (n = 21)

with baseline LDL

increased significantly (7.4 and 12.3%, respectively) during the control phase.

There were small,

nonsignificant declines in total (1.3%) and LDL-C (2.1%) during the inulin

phase. Thus,

differences in response between periods (inulin - control) were significant (P <

0.05) for LDL-C

(-14.4%) and total cholesterol (-8.7%). Mild gastrointestinal discomfort was

more common during

the inulin than the control food phase; however, the gastrointestinal

side-effect profile of

inulin was similar to that of other soluble fibers.

--- jcgre <johngrellner@...> wrote:

> for those who enjoy scientific articles, pubmed makes it clear that

> inulin does have side effects including gastrointestinal

> discomfort... see:

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=10395624 & query_hl=8

>

> a simple search on pub med provides ample proof of this fact...

> because duncan is right, we should look at the facts. i seriously

> doubt whether food rich in inulin has the same effect. why7 because

> its balenced with other nutrients so that it can naturally pass

> through the gi tract without artificially manipulating the intestinal

> flora.

>

> so duncan, your claim that SCD " zealots " unfairly malign artificial

> inulin supplements appears to be without merit. they are making a

> valid point, you just don't like it.

>

> g

>

>

>

>

>

> > > > People report side effects, unpleasant gi tract symptoms... the

> > hidden

> > > > danger is that this franken food will increase your bysbiosis

> > > > problems. search the archives, this is nothing new.

> > > >

> > > > john g

> > >

> > > G appears to equate the the water extraction of a soluble

> fiber

> > > similar to starch but less digestible, with frankenfood. Whether a

> > > frankenfood might increase dysbiosis is immaterial to this

> thread.

> > >

> > > Even antibiotic-associated diarrhea and general dysbiosis in

> > animals,

> > > humans included, responded favourably to inulin supplementation,

> > even

> > > " native inulin " which is 6% to 11% sugar and abut 3% FOS.

> > >

> > > Lactobacilli produce gas. Lactobacillus acidophilus is probably

> the

> > > bst known probiotic. Bifidobacteria do not produce gas. Generally

> > > speaking, fermentation in the gut produces gas. It wouldn't be

> > > fermentation if it didn't

> > >

> > > This is part of the research G wouldn't read.

> > >

> > > Duncan Crow

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I don't know you and I don't know Duncan, but I have to say you are wrong

on this one. The

very article you pointed to was about a study using foods that contained inulin,

not refined

inulin like what Duncan sells. I don't even think you read the article very

carefully. It also

goes on to say that the gastrointestinal effect was the same as other soluble

fibers. Also, as

your link did not work correctly when I first clicked on it, I searched that

site for inulin and

found a few articles there that actually support inulin. You seem to ber really

reaching to try to

make a point here. So far Duncan has supported his arguments with good facts,

you have not. It

looks to me like you are the one with a hidden agenda. You have tried to

discount Duncan's inlulin

with faulty logic and twisting of the facts. I feel like you are trying to make

it harder for me

to figure out the truth. What's up with that? And what the hell is a scd

zealot, anyway?

-MM

From your article - notice " inulin-containing foods " :

A recent study examined the effect of consuming three servings per day of

inulin-containing

foods, compared with the effect of similar foods without inulin, on serum lipid

profiles among

hypercholesterolemic men and women. In addition, the practicality of including

18 g/d of inulin in

a low fat diet was investigated. The recent study randomized, double-blind,

crossover trial with

two 6-wk treatment periods, separated by a 6-wk washout. Men and women (n = 21)

with baseline LDL

increased significantly (7.4 and 12.3%, respectively) during the control phase.

There were small,

nonsignificant declines in total (1.3%) and LDL-C (2.1%) during the inulin

phase. Thus,

differences in response between periods (inulin - control) were significant (P <

0.05) for LDL-C

(-14.4%) and total cholesterol (-8.7%). Mild gastrointestinal discomfort was

more common during

the inulin than the control food phase; however, the gastrointestinal

side-effect profile of

inulin was similar to that of other soluble fibers.

--- jcgre <johngrellner@...> wrote:

> for those who enjoy scientific articles, pubmed makes it clear that

> inulin does have side effects including gastrointestinal

> discomfort... see:

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=10395624 & query_hl=8

>

> a simple search on pub med provides ample proof of this fact...

> because duncan is right, we should look at the facts. i seriously

> doubt whether food rich in inulin has the same effect. why7 because

> its balenced with other nutrients so that it can naturally pass

> through the gi tract without artificially manipulating the intestinal

> flora.

>

> so duncan, your claim that SCD " zealots " unfairly malign artificial

> inulin supplements appears to be without merit. they are making a

> valid point, you just don't like it.

>

> g

>

>

>

>

>

> > > > People report side effects, unpleasant gi tract symptoms... the

> > hidden

> > > > danger is that this franken food will increase your bysbiosis

> > > > problems. search the archives, this is nothing new.

> > > >

> > > > john g

> > >

> > > G appears to equate the the water extraction of a soluble

> fiber

> > > similar to starch but less digestible, with frankenfood. Whether a

> > > frankenfood might increase dysbiosis is immaterial to this

> thread.

> > >

> > > Even antibiotic-associated diarrhea and general dysbiosis in

> > animals,

> > > humans included, responded favourably to inulin supplementation,

> > even

> > > " native inulin " which is 6% to 11% sugar and abut 3% FOS.

> > >

> > > Lactobacilli produce gas. Lactobacillus acidophilus is probably

> the

> > > bst known probiotic. Bifidobacteria do not produce gas. Generally

> > > speaking, fermentation in the gut produces gas. It wouldn't be

> > > fermentation if it didn't

> > >

> > > This is part of the research G wouldn't read.

> > >

> > > Duncan Crow

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Duncan's term not mine. the SCD people (specific carbohydrate diet)

designed a diet to help cure people with digestive difficulties.

their program may not be right for everyone, but they are widely

respected and have helped many people. I did not use their diet when

overcoming candida, but will say that a healthy diet is critical.

Google it if you are curious. He calls them zealots because he

purports to disgree with their methods, most probably because they are

not in favor of a product based approach, but rather diet (real food)

and education.

That's a good point you raise about the inulin study. even tied up in

food it appeared to cause problems for some people. The studies

referenced in the SCD link i posted earlier dealt with inulin supps

and made the same point.

re articles supporting inulin, that should not be a surprise. people

pay for studies to support products, that is how our system works.

you can design a study to support almost any product as there are

studies that show the benefits of chocolate, coffee, scotch.... you

get my point. you have to take it all with a grain of salt as you

don't know who paid for it, though you can often guess based on the

result.

if you want to buy inulin, don't let me stop you. just do everyone

else a favor and report your experience a few months later like people

did in here in the past. might save someone the time and trouble in

the future. i would suggest you look around the net a bit on prices,

why pay extra when you don't have to.

I make no secret about my agenda. I have argued with duncan many

times in the past about how he constantly pushes supplements without

ever mentioning the real necessary steps required to beat candida. in

the past he even admitted how beneficial cleanses like liverflushing

were to overcoming candida, but, only in response to others pointing

out his sales tactics.

I'm not out to save the world, but i do know from experience that

buying inulin and cold pressed whey won't get you out of candida

overgrowth. And duncan is right about one thing, he never promises

that his products will cure you, because he knows they can't. he just

implies it and lets you hope it will happen that way.

if you want to talk to other people who have beaten candida, go to the

candida forum at www.curezone.com, and ask around. ask for Jhan or a

few others, they will tell you how its done. its not that complicated

and shouldn't cost much money. but it does take dedication and faith

in yourself and time. first and foremost, it takes a willingness to

make real changes in your life. i doubt anyone will pitch products to

you at the real curezone forum as its generally not tolerated.

I'm not selling anything, and put my own story in the " files " section

of the this group, along with a few others. i sell nothing, and am not

involved in any health related work. I realize my anger at duncan is

annoying to some, I get emails that are about fairly split, some say

thanks, others say go away. that's just how it works.

i have noticed that most poeple like me do go away after awhile for a

reason. how many people have been at this forum for over a year, or

two? not many i would guess. the sales pitches get old. but you

don't see it as a sales pitch until later... but i get ahead of

myself, its not for me to tell you what you should and shouldn't know.

if you want to get rid of your candida problem, the best advice you

are going to get is from other people who have done it. you don't

have to take my work for it... find others and ask them, its always a

similar story. as long as people think any product or pill is going

to turn it around for them, getting well is just delayed. Of course

this is just my opinion, so take it or leave it as you see fit.

g

> > > > > People report side effects, unpleasant gi tract symptoms... the

> > > hidden

> > > > > danger is that this franken food will increase your bysbiosis

> > > > > problems. search the archives, this is nothing new.

> > > > >

> > > > > john g

> > > >

> > > > G appears to equate the the water extraction of a soluble

> > fiber

> > > > similar to starch but less digestible, with frankenfood. Whether a

> > > > frankenfood might increase dysbiosis is immaterial to this

> > thread.

> > > >

> > > > Even antibiotic-associated diarrhea and general dysbiosis in

> > > animals,

> > > > humans included, responded favourably to inulin supplementation,

> > > even

> > > > " native inulin " which is 6% to 11% sugar and abut 3% FOS.

> > > >

> > > > Lactobacilli produce gas. Lactobacillus acidophilus is probably

> > the

> > > > bst known probiotic. Bifidobacteria do not produce gas. Generally

> > > > speaking, fermentation in the gut produces gas. It wouldn't be

> > > > fermentation if it didn't

> > > >

> > > > This is part of the research G wouldn't read.

> > > >

> > > > Duncan Crow

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> Duncan's term not mine. the SCD people (specific carbohydrate diet)

> designed a diet to help cure people with digestive difficulties.

> their program may not be right for everyone, but they are widely

> respected and have helped many people. I did not use their diet when

> overcoming candida, but will say that a healthy diet is critical.

> Google it if you are curious. He calls them zealots because he

> purports to disgree with their methods, most probably because they are

> not in favor of a product based approach, but rather diet (real food)

> and education.

My main problems with the SCD zealots are that they promote

disinformation about what is desireable bowl function, and

disinformation about dsireable cellular funcion. I suggst they should

know better, and I also suggest that dogma will not substitute for

solid science.

It's my understanding that their dogma does not allow them to

facilitate bowel fermentation, when in fact we evolved with it, and

that's how mattes are kept undr control in there.

It's also my understanding that cold-processed whey runs against their

dogma about what is healthy.

Both " products " are faulted as " man-made " although both are clearly

extracted. But my main point is that both are instrumental in the cure

for bowel disorders, and also reduce antioxidant depletion that leads

to many diseases.

One has only to Goooogle crohn's colitis IBS IBD glutathione whey to

find data that shows oxidative stress and consequent antioxidant

depletion in bowel disorders, and the fact that increasing the

antioxidant values perishes a lot of the symptoms as well as toxin and

free radical load.

Similarly, Goooogling crohn's colitis IBS IBD prebiotic inulin brings

up data that conflicts with the SCD dogma about bowel fermentation

being bad.

With respect to my approach being product centric, clearly I've shown

that inulin usage is not, and similarly using whey is not, as marginal

benefits can be obtained even wih unconcentratd ingredient. However,

most people would agree there is something to be said for replacing

the missing ingredients any way one can, sometimes resorting to

natural ingrdients in concentrated form. But then again I also support

the extraction and use of coconut oil, butter and vitamin C from

natural sources.

Duncan Crow