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In a message dated 1/18/2007 1:06:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,

behnkesw@... writes:

Sorry PPCD is a term most schools use for Special

Education from the age of 3-kindy.

Oh okay thanks. And yes I can believe it because I know someone whose child

has DS and she scored 80 on the IQ test so they didn't want to give her

services either. She had to really fight. It's appalling is it not??

Loree

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Sorry PPCD is a term most schools use for Special

Education from the age of 3-kindy.

--- Loree5@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 1/18/2007 11:15:45 AM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> behnkesw@... writes:

>

> A friend of mine with a son that has DS, just got

> denied PPCD

>

>

> what is PPCD

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

> Click reply to all for messages to go to the list.

> Just hit reply for messages to go to the sender of

> the message.

>

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I have a friend here who was told the same thing....... your daughter is

" too smart " and does not need services. Apparently part of it was from

an IQ test administered at age 2 1/2 (supposedly needed before

transitioning to preschool services) that showed she was above the MR

range, hence must not need services. The mom is a fighter and her

daughter did recevie the needed services, but it was an awful fight. Go

figure!

, mom to (11), (9 DS), and Sammy (7)

Loree5@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 1/18/2007 1:06:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> behnkesw@... <mailto:behnkesw%40> writes:

>

> Sorry PPCD is a term most schools use for Special

> Education from the age of 3-kindy.

>

> Oh okay thanks. And yes I can believe it because I know someone whose

> child

> has DS and she scored 80 on the IQ test so they didn't want to give her

> services either. She had to really fight. It's appalling is it not??

>

> Loree

>

>

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This kind of stuff is why I have refused all IQ testing that leads to this

number..

_____

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf

Of and Behnke

Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 1:06 PM

Loree5@...;

Subject: Re: can you believe....

Sorry PPCD is a term most schools use for Special

Education from the age of 3-kindy.

--- Loree5@... <mailto:Loree5%40aol.com> wrote:

>

> In a message dated 1/18/2007 11:15:45 AM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> behnkesw (DOT) <mailto:behnkesw%40> com writes:

>

> A friend of mine with a son that has DS, just got

> denied PPCD

>

>

> what is PPCD

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

> Click reply to all for messages to go to the list.

> Just hit reply for messages to go to the sender of

> the message.

>

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Its sad because its almost a double standard. We get

told that I kids can't learn but then when they can

show they can then they don't give services UGH!

During the eval, they were shocked at how well he did.

Crazy!

B

--- Loree5@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 1/18/2007 1:06:55 PM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> behnkesw@... writes:

>

> Sorry PPCD is a term most schools use for Special

> Education from the age of 3-kindy.

>

>

> Oh okay thanks. And yes I can believe it because I

> know someone whose child

> has DS and she scored 80 on the IQ test so they

> didn't want to give her

> services either. She had to really fight. It's

> appalling is it not??

>

> Loree

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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I may be wrong but I thought they could not IQ test a

child under a certain age? I know for " typical " kids,

they have to be 9.

--- Kerrigan <leslie-kerrigan@...> wrote:

> I have a friend here who was told the same

> thing....... your daughter is

> " too smart " and does not need services. Apparently

> part of it was from

> an IQ test administered at age 2 1/2 (supposedly

> needed before

> transitioning to preschool services) that showed she

> was above the MR

> range, hence must not need services. The mom is a

> fighter and her

> daughter did recevie the needed services, but it was

> an awful fight. Go

> figure!

>

> , mom to (11), (9 DS), and

> Sammy (7)

>

> Loree5@... wrote:

>

> >

> > In a message dated 1/18/2007 1:06:55 PM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> > behnkesw@... <mailto:behnkesw%40>

> writes:

> >

> > Sorry PPCD is a term most schools use for Special

> > Education from the age of 3-kindy.

> >

> > Oh okay thanks. And yes I can believe it because I

> know someone whose

> > child

> > has DS and she scored 80 on the IQ test so they

> didn't want to give her

> > services either. She had to really fight. It's

> appalling is it not??

> >

> > Loree

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

> >

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

> Click reply to all for messages to go to the list.

> Just hit reply for messages to go to the sender of

> the message.

>

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We are in PPCD but I have already warned the Principal

that until he IQ tests ALL the kids in the school then

he could do mine :) He just shook his head!

B

--- Ann-marie <annshelley@...> wrote:

> This kind of stuff is why I have refused all IQ

> testing that leads to this

> number..

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On Behalf

> Of and Behnke

> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 1:06 PM

> Loree5@...;

> Subject: Re: can you believe....

>

>

>

> Sorry PPCD is a term most schools use for Special

> Education from the age of 3-kindy.

> --- Loree5@... <mailto:Loree5%40aol.com> wrote:

>

> >

> > In a message dated 1/18/2007 11:15:45 AM Eastern

> > Standard Time,

> > behnkesw (DOT) <mailto:behnkesw%40> com

> writes:

> >

> > A friend of mine with a son that has DS, just got

> > denied PPCD

> >

> >

> > what is PPCD

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> > Click reply to all for messages to go to the list.

>

> > Just hit reply for messages to go to the sender of

> > the message.

> >

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We are in PPCD but I have already warned the Principal

that until he IQ tests ALL the kids in the school then

he could do mine :) He just shook his head!

B

--- Ann-marie <annshelley@...> wrote:

> This kind of stuff is why I have refused all IQ

> testing that leads to this

> number..

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On Behalf

> Of and Behnke

> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 1:06 PM

> Loree5@...;

> Subject: Re: can you believe....

>

>

>

> Sorry PPCD is a term most schools use for Special

> Education from the age of 3-kindy.

> --- Loree5@... <mailto:Loree5%40aol.com> wrote:

>

> >

> > In a message dated 1/18/2007 11:15:45 AM Eastern

> > Standard Time,

> > behnkesw (DOT) <mailto:behnkesw%40> com

> writes:

> >

> > A friend of mine with a son that has DS, just got

> > denied PPCD

> >

> >

> > what is PPCD

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> > Click reply to all for messages to go to the list.

>

> > Just hit reply for messages to go to the sender of

> > the message.

> >

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No such rules about IQ testing here in So Cal....... they tested

at Regional Center (I wasn't really even aware of it being an

option,and I was so exhaused with a 2 year old and new baby they could

have told me anything, LOL) for her " transition " out of Early

Intervention Services.... she was 2 1/2, and I don't even remember what

it said because I felt it was worthless to try and IQ test a child of

this age. Since then, the school district has asked repeately each

year, particularly at her trienial review, and I have always declined.

The school psychologist convinced me to do it this past year (for a

number of reasons that I won't go into now), so she was 8 this time.

Don't know if it is indicative of her true IQ, and I know that it

doesn't reflect her actual abilities, but they have their number and now

I can continue to decline until she's ready to transition into adult

services back at Regional Center.

, mom to (11), (9 DS), and Sammy (7)

and Behnke wrote:

>I may be wrong but I thought they could not IQ test a

>child under a certain age? I know for " typical " kids,

>they have to be 9.

>--- Kerrigan <leslie-kerrigan@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>>I have a friend here who was told the same

>>thing....... your daughter is

>> " too smart " and does not need services. Apparently

>>part of it was from

>>an IQ test administered at age 2 1/2 (supposedly

>>needed before

>>transitioning to preschool services) that showed she

>>was above the MR

>>range, hence must not need services. The mom is a

>>fighter and her

>>daughter did recevie the needed services, but it was

>>an awful fight. Go

>>figure!

>>

>>, mom to (11), (9 DS), and

>>Sammy (7)

>>

>>Loree5@... wrote:

>>

>>

>>

>>>In a message dated 1/18/2007 1:06:55 PM Eastern

>>>

>>>

>>Standard Time,

>>

>>

>>>behnkesw@... <mailto:behnkesw%40>

>>>

>>>

>>writes:

>>

>>

>>>Sorry PPCD is a term most schools use for Special

>>>Education from the age of 3-kindy.

>>>

>>>Oh okay thanks. And yes I can believe it because I

>>>

>>>

>>know someone whose

>>

>>

>>>child

>>>has DS and she scored 80 on the IQ test so they

>>>

>>>

>>didn't want to give her

>>

>>

>>>services either. She had to really fight. It's

>>>

>>>

>>appalling is it not??

>>

>>

>>>Loree

>>>

>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been

>>>

>>>

>>removed]

>>

>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>>[Non-text portions of this message have been

>>removed]

>>

>>

>>

>>Click reply to all for messages to go to the list.

>>Just hit reply for messages to go to the sender of

>>the message.

>>

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Ciarra was IQ tested in 1st grade.

Re: can you believe....

I may be wrong but I thought they could not IQ test a

child under a certain age? I know for " typical " kids,

they have to be 9.

--- Kerrigan <leslie-kerrigan@ <mailto:leslie-kerrigan%40cox.net>

cox.net> wrote:

> I have a friend here who was told the same

> thing....... your daughter is

> " too smart " and does not need services. Apparently

> part of it was from

> an IQ test administered at age 2 1/2 (supposedly

> needed before

> transitioning to preschool services) that showed she

> was above the MR

> range, hence must not need services. The mom is a

> fighter and her

> daughter did recevie the needed services, but it was

> an awful fight. Go

> figure!

>

> , mom to (11), (9 DS), and

> Sammy (7)

>

> Loree5@... <mailto:Loree5%40aol.com> wrote:

>

> >

> > In a message dated 1/18/2007 1:06:55 PM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> > behnkesw (DOT) <mailto:behnkesw%40> com

<mailto:behnkesw%40>

> writes:

> >

> > Sorry PPCD is a term most schools use for Special

> > Education from the age of 3-kindy.

> >

> > Oh okay thanks. And yes I can believe it because I

> know someone whose

> > child

> > has DS and she scored 80 on the IQ test so they

> didn't want to give her

> > services either. She had to really fight. It's

> appalling is it not??

> >

> > Loree

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

> >

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

> Click reply to all for messages to go to the list.

> Just hit reply for messages to go to the sender of

> the message.

>

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Supposedly, IQ testing of under at certain age (something like 7 or 8) isn't

that reliable (if it ever is ; )).

More to the point, isn't there something in IDEA about not using IQ or any

other single measure as the sole determiner of eligibility?

Judi

_____

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf

Of

Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 8:37 PM

' and Behnke'; ' Kerrigan'; Loree5@...

Cc:

Subject: RE: can you believe....

Ciarra was IQ tested in 1st grade.

Re: can you believe....

I may be wrong but I thought they could not IQ test a

child under a certain age? I know for " typical " kids,

they have to be 9.

--- Kerrigan <leslie-kerrigan@ <mailto:leslie-kerrigan%40cox.net>

cox.net> wrote:

> I have a friend here who was told the same

> thing....... your daughter is

> " too smart " and does not need services. Apparently

> part of it was from

> an IQ test administered at age 2 1/2 (supposedly

> needed before

> transitioning to preschool services) that showed she

> was above the MR

> range, hence must not need services. The mom is a

> fighter and her

> daughter did recevie the needed services, but it was

> an awful fight. Go

> figure!

>

> , mom to (11), (9 DS), and

> Sammy (7)

>

> Loree5@... <mailto:Loree5%40aol.com> <mailto:Loree5%40aol.com> wrote:

>

> >

> > In a message dated 1/18/2007 1:06:55 PM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> > behnkesw (DOT) <mailto:behnkesw%40> com

<mailto:behnkesw%40>

> writes:

> >

> > Sorry PPCD is a term most schools use for Special

> > Education from the age of 3-kindy.

> >

> > Oh okay thanks. And yes I can believe it because I

> know someone whose

> > child

> > has DS and she scored 80 on the IQ test so they

> didn't want to give her

> > services either. She had to really fight. It's

> appalling is it not??

> >

> > Loree

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

> >

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

> Click reply to all for messages to go to the list.

> Just hit reply for messages to go to the sender of

> the message.

>

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In a message dated 1/18/2007 7:26:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,

behnkesw@... writes:

I may be wrong but I thought they could not IQ test a

child under a certain age? I know for " typical " kids,

they have to be 9.

You are not wrong but a lot of parents don't know this, and the schools slip

it in during testing. If I had not said I did not want it done they would

have done it at three hen he transitioned into the district.

Loree

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My son had an IQ test when he transitioned from early intervention (our birth

- 3 program) to the school district. They do have specific varieties of IQ

test to test young children and those that are non-verbal.

Dawn

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I just finished reading the thread, my son also did what I consider to be

very well, he scored a 78. The IQ should never be used as the single assesment

tool to base decisions on. Even if our children's IQ's are on the higher end

they still experience many global delays. Those being OT, PT, Speech and

Self-Help and also they still need additional repitition and time to learn

academics. No way would I stand for your son is too smart (although wouldn't it

be

great if...) all child can learn more.

Dawn

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In a message dated 1/19/2007 9:39:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, CandJsMom1

writes:

My son had an IQ test when he transitioned from early intervention (our

birth - 3 program) to the school district. They do have specific varieties of

IQ

test to test young children and those that are non-verbal.

The tests you are referring to I believe ar not IQ tests but tests to find

out the developmental age equivalent which is different. They do have

non-verbal IQ tests but I don't think they use them on children before they get

into

school unless specifically asked for.

Loree

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In a message dated 1/19/2007 10:02:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,

mome23kjnc@... writes:

I take offense to the suggest that I “wasn’t aware of my rights†or

whatever. It was imperative at that time that she be tested

I hope it was not I who offended you because that is absolutely not what was

my intent. There are alot of parents who allow the schoools to IQ their

children for a variety of reasons all of them good I am sure. But there are

also many parents who do not know they have an option to not test and I have

seen the IQ test used against children on both ends of the scales. This list

serve is to support each other and to also inform. I have learned a tremendous

amount from those who have gone before me. I hope that I too can share some

of the experiences I have had, and have had access to, in order to help

other new parents make informed decisions. There are many school districts in

this country and they all work differently. the more information we gather

as parents the better parents and advocates we we will be.

Loree

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In a message dated 1/19/2007 10:05:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,

behnkesw@... writes:

Just not very accurate. From what I have been shown.

You are right! Research shows that an IQ score is not at all accurate on a

child under 8 or 9.

Loree

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Maverick had his first IQ testing done at age 3. That was before I knew

better. Since that time, whenever it was time for testing, I wouldn't allow any

numerical testing done, until last year. As a freshman in HS they needed it to

get more services for him. They did the testing but we did not allow anyone to

know the numbers. and I don't even know. I don't consider the tests fair

or accurate. I also don't want teachers teaching him based on a number.

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I looked in my books from my wrightslaw bootcamp. I

remember they discussing that all the districts want

(in some cases) is the number. ONce they have it then

they will set goals to that number and tell parents

thats all they think your child will do. The other

pitfall about testing is that some testers will up the

numbers because they know that is what the parents

want. The other problem with that that a few parents

of our local group found out is that for some Medicaid

waiver programs will only use an IQ test from the

district and if you had a tester that scored you above

a 75 to make you happy - you just disqualified your

kid from that one waiver program that has to be below

75. In texas, its CLASS that has to be below 75.

Medicaid waiver programs are Federal programs but they

are called different names in different states.

What I did notice is that the moment they realized

that they were not going to pull a fast one on me,

they backed off. I have made it my mission to know

about the IQ tests (ECI is helping me with getting the

materials). I don't mind testing sort of but my son

is nonverbal and i don't want someones best guess to

be the thing that follows him forever.

Just my opinion.

B

--- Loree5@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 1/18/2007 7:26:22 PM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> behnkesw@... writes:

>

> I may be wrong but I thought they could not IQ test

> a

> child under a certain age? I know for " typical "

> kids,

> they have to be 9.

>

>

>

> You are not wrong but a lot of parents don't know

> this, and the schools slip

> it in during testing. If I had not said I did not

> want it done they would

> have done it at three hen he transitioned into the

> district.

>

> Loree

>

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Whoa, now. I am a very knowledgeable parent, and had full understanding

of the testing being done, it was done with my blessings. It was done in

a psychologist's office and I was in attendance. Without going into

great detail, it was necessary to have it done earlier vs later in order

to maintain services for my child. There are any number of variables

that go into testing, we don't all fit in perfectly sized blocks. I take

offense to the suggest that I " wasn't aware of my rights " or whatever.

It was imperative at that time that she be tested.

Re: can you believe....

In a message dated 1/18/2007 7:26:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,

behnkesw (DOT) <mailto:behnkesw%40> com writes:

I may be wrong but I thought they could not IQ test a

child under a certain age? I know for " typical " kids,

they have to be 9.

You are not wrong but a lot of parents don't know this, and the schools

slip

it in during testing. If I had not said I did not want it done they

would

have done it at three hen he transitioned into the district.

Loree

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They do but I feel from what I have been told, that

they are very unreliable. That is why the Feds have

said for typical kids -not to test below 9. I had my

son tested at a private school for kids with DS and

even the test said that it is very hard to tell on

young kids and non verbal kids what they actually know

inside. Plus the tester usually does not have much

contact with the child prior to it. The child is less

likely to preform for a stranger in a strange room

therefore not an accurate result. The testers on

those test have a very limited range of what they can

say to the child and what answers they can receive

from a child to give a passing on it. Its all

subjective and you can get 2 very different results

from 2 different testers observing on the same day.

Just not very accurate. From what I have been shown.

B

--- CandJsMom1@... wrote:

> My son had an IQ test when he transitioned from

> early intervention (our birth

> - 3 program) to the school district. They do have

> specific varieties of IQ

> test to test young children and those that are

> non-verbal.

>

> Dawn

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

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,

Don't get me wrong, I have NEVER said that you don't

know or have the knowledge. I also never said that it

was not right for everyone. As we are all very

different. I am telling my experience and what I have

seen, and been told and sharing it. Not everyone

maybe as knowledgeable as you. I was not until

another parent shared there experience. If some of my

parents would not have shared the info that they did,

I would have been stuck so I am just passing it

forward. If it applies to you great, if it doesn't

then it doesn't. I don't know each one of you or your

individual children so that is why its a general

statement. Every school district is different and

everybody shares their experience in the hope that it

might help someone else and that is all I am trying to

do. If you took (or anyone else) took it as an insult

to your knowledge - I am sorry that was not my intent.

I had hope to share some things in the hope that

maybe it would help someone else but I guess not.

B

--- <mome23kjnc@...> wrote:

> Whoa, now. I am a very knowledgeable parent, and had

> full understanding

> of the testing being done, it was done with my

> blessings. It was done in

> a psychologist's office and I was in attendance.

> Without going into

> great detail, it was necessary to have it done

> earlier vs later in order

> to maintain services for my child. There are any

> number of variables

> that go into testing, we don't all fit in perfectly

> sized blocks. I take

> offense to the suggest that I " wasn't aware of my

> rights " or whatever.

> It was imperative at that time that she be tested.

>

>

>

> Re: can you believe....

>

>

>

>

> In a message dated 1/18/2007 7:26:22 PM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> behnkesw (DOT) <mailto:behnkesw%40> com

> writes:

>

> I may be wrong but I thought they could not IQ test

> a

> child under a certain age? I know for " typical "

> kids,

> they have to be 9.

>

> You are not wrong but a lot of parents don't know

> this, and the schools

> slip

> it in during testing. If I had not said I did not

> want it done they

> would

> have done it at three hen he transitioned into the

> district.

>

> Loree

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

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,

I am surprise that you took offense. I don't know you

or your situation or your child. I am not sure why

you took it so personally. If you want to suggest

that everyone on this site knows everything that you

do, then I will not suggest or share anything anymore.

I take offense that you would suggest that I am

telling you what to do or not to do about your own

child. If I read anything that does not apply to me

then I delete and move on.

Again I am sorry.

B

--- <mome23kjnc@...> wrote:

> Whoa, now. I am a very knowledgeable parent, and had

> full understanding

> of the testing being done, it was done with my

> blessings. It was done in

> a psychologist's office and I was in attendance.

> Without going into

> great detail, it was necessary to have it done

> earlier vs later in order

> to maintain services for my child. There are any

> number of variables

> that go into testing, we don't all fit in perfectly

> sized blocks. I take

> offense to the suggest that I " wasn't aware of my

> rights " or whatever.

> It was imperative at that time that she be tested.

>

>

>

> Re: can you believe....

>

>

>

>

> In a message dated 1/18/2007 7:26:22 PM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> behnkesw (DOT) <mailto:behnkesw%40> com

> writes:

>

> I may be wrong but I thought they could not IQ test

> a

> child under a certain age? I know for " typical "

> kids,

> they have to be 9.

>

> You are not wrong but a lot of parents don't know

> this, and the schools

> slip

> it in during testing. If I had not said I did not

> want it done they

> would

> have done it at three hen he transitioned into the

> district.

>

> Loree

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

> Click reply to all for messages to go to the list.

> Just hit reply for messages to go to the sender of

> the message.

>

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My son was IQ tested using a non verbal test through a

private school for kids with DS. Even they said they

were still limited in how to ask a question. Like I

would say (point to an object) and say in and

he would do it. They were required to say a sentence

and he just looked at them like what! He could do the

task but not in the way they wanted so he did not get

credit. That is all I meant.

B

--- Loree5@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 1/19/2007 9:39:13 AM Eastern

> Standard Time, CandJsMom1

> writes:

>

> My son had an IQ test when he transitioned from

> early intervention (our

> birth - 3 program) to the school district. They do

> have specific varieties of IQ

> test to test young children and those that are

> non-verbal.

>

>

>

> The tests you are referring to I believe ar not IQ

> tests but tests to find

> out the developmental age equivalent which is

> different. They do have

> non-verbal IQ tests but I don't think they use them

> on children before they get into

> school unless specifically asked for.

>

> Loree

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

> Click reply to all for messages to go to the list.

> Just hit reply for messages to go to the sender of

> the message.

>

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