RE: Abortions for DS Fetuses

[Guest guest]

Okay THAT is modifying. I am in shock... I would expect this from someone

with no people skills or experience but it's inexcusable in the medical

community.

Tonight, as Hannah and Theresa were giggling like monkeys while we played

the " counting " game, I had this thought of " wow... how lucky am I!! "

Heartbreaking to think of the people that will never experience anything like

that

moment.

" Professionals " with no experience with people with disabilities have no

place counseling others... IMHO.

Connie

In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:41:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

mjfries@... writes:

We were given " genetic counseling " when our AFP test came back ever so

slightly outside of normal... this genetic counseling was more like abortion

counseling. It was horrific really - thinking back. We were told " it " would

never walk, talk, be a productive member of society, would most likely need

expensive heart surgeries etc. The counselor couldn't believe we didn't want

an amnio - and when the doctor at the ultrasound place found out we wouldn't

do an amnio and wouldn't abort no matter what he was extremely rude to us -

barely spoke to us actually. It was awful.

Later after she was born I was at my family doctor - and he took one look at

her and said " Wow - I didn't realize they let THAT happen anymore " .

Obviously we don't see him anymore. This was in 2002.

Michele

[Guest guest]

Er... I meant MORDIFYING... sorry

In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:56:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

kindafunny@... writes:

Okay THAT is modifying. I am in shock... I would expect this from someone

with no people skills or experience but it's inexcusable in the medical

community.

Tonight, as Hannah and Theresa were giggling like monkeys while we played

the " counting " game, I had this thought of " wow... how lucky am I!! "

Heartbreaking to think of the people that will never experience anything

like that

moment.

" Professionals " with no experience with people with disabilities have no

place counseling others... IMHO.

Connie

[Guest guest]

We were given " genetic counseling " when our AFP test came back ever so slightly

outside of normal... this genetic counseling was more like abortion counseling.

It was horrific really - thinking back. We were told " it " would never walk,

talk, be a productive member of society, would most likely need expensive heart

surgeries etc. The counselor couldn't believe we didn't want an amnio - and

when the doctor at the ultrasound place found out we wouldn't do an amnio and

wouldn't abort no matter what he was extremely rude to us - barely spoke to us

actually. It was awful.

Later after she was born I was at my family doctor - and he took one look at her

and said " Wow - I didn't realize they let THAT happen anymore " . Obviously we

don't see him anymore. This was in 2002.

Michele

Abortions for DS Fetuses

Abortions on Down Syndrome Babies Still High, Maybe 85 Percent

Nashville, TN (LifeNews.com) -- Abortions on babies with Down syndrome are

still high and estimates show that as many as 85 percent of babies with the

condition are victims of abortion. " To me it's scary, " Imparato,

president and chief executive officer of the American Association of People with

Disabilities, told the Tennessean newspaper. " It's like trying to create a

master race. " Dr. Summar, a pediatrician at the Vanderbilt children's

hospital's Down syndrome clinic says she also thinks that more women are

probably having abortions when tests show the baby has the condition. Still, she

thinks more data is needed to prove it. Research shows only about half the

expected number of babies with Down syndrome were born in 2001. The study in The

American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology found a nationwide decline in Down

syndrome births, even as more women are giving birth later in life, which

greatly increases the risk of Down syndrome.

Has anyone else seen this? I didn't think parents were still being told to do

this! So Sad!!!

Reggie

__________________________________________________________

Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security

tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free

AOL Mail and more.

[Guest guest]

When was 8 days old ( 9-2005) our Genetic Counselor told us

they would help us with advanced testing and offer options IF we

intended to have MORE children ! ( We might have more children. Our

has been such a delight I would have ten more just like her if

I could )

Everyone else kept asking if we did the AFP.. with that silent 'nod'

when we said " no " .

When new parents ask me the " what I need to know question " . I tell

them to skip the Genetics' counseling. Really in our case that was all

it amounted to. " your child has DS.. garden variety tri somy 21. Your

risk of having another is greater than average due to age and fact you

have a child with DS. So if you want further testing If you choose to

have children we will help you with that and with your options for that

pregnancy from there . "

It was a waste of time in my opinion. They ( the pedis ) told us we

should schedule with the GC ASAP. Why? Why get all bustled about 8 days

post partum .. three days post Cardiac Scan/evaluation to rush down

there to the hospital just to be told that bologna? Even if she had had

mosaic.. what difference would it have made in that arena?

I think You would be as surprised as I was.. The NDSA and the

NDSCongress ( as of 9-2005 ) both have " neutral " opinions on abortion

due to dx of Down Syndrome. WHY? The March of Dimes does also.. they

support the testing. And have a neutral opinion on testing used to

abort..WHY?

I have to wonder.. really what does the testing do? Is DS a preventable

birth defect? ( no) The only so called " prevention " for DS is abortion.

Ok.. I will get off my soap box before I go on and on.

Steph

[Guest guest]

A mom I met recently went in to get her amnio results. They told her that her

baby had DS, and then handed her a piece of paper with a date and time written

on it, and said " we made your appointment for the termination " . Absolutely no

counseling, support what so ever. This mom told them to shove it, and now is

the very proud mom of a gorgeous baby, who happens to have DS. She is now

serving as the contact person for our support group to talk to other moms that

receive the news in-utero. This is a huge goal for our support group, not to

try and sway the moms that receive an in-utero diagnosis one way or another, but

to give them balanced, fair and appopriate information. Now the moms aren't

offered any type of information at all. When we met with the charge nurse at

one of the local ob-gyn offices, and offered the services of the support group,

she burst into tears and thanked us, said how much our group, and our

information is needed. We go to meet with the docs in a couple of weeks. After

we meet with them, we are heading for the amnio clinic next.

Sharon H.

Mom to , (15, DS) and , (11)

South Carolina

" Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of

battle. "

Abortions for DS Fetuses

Abortions on Down Syndrome Babies Still High, Maybe 85 Percent

Nashville, TN (LifeNews.com) -- Abortions on babies with Down syndrome are

still high and estimates show that as many as 85 percent of babies with the

condition are victims of abortion. " To me it's scary, " Imparato,

president and chief executive officer of the American Association of People with

Disabilities, told the Tennessean newspaper. " It's like trying to create a

master race. " Dr. Summar, a pediatrician at the Vanderbilt children's

hospital's Down syndrome clinic says she also thinks that more women are

probably having abortions when tests show the baby has the condition. Still, she

thinks more data is needed to prove it. Research shows only about half the

expected number of babies with Down syndrome were born in 2001. The study in The

American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology found a nationwide decline in Down

syndrome births, even as more women are giving birth later in life, which

greatly increases the risk of Down syndrome.

Has anyone else seen this? I didn't think parents were still being told to do

this! So Sad!!!

Reggie

__________________________________________________________

Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security

tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free

AOL Mail and more.

[Guest guest]

That is a great story. I wish your group luck. People dont like to talk about

these issues but I think it is important. Getting rid of a child just because

of a dx... where will this lead our society...I call it the Barbie and Ken

factor....we all want to place our order and get just what we think we

want...just like on a shopping trip. Life is beautiful, unpredictable and

natural. I wish people were not so afraid.

Dawn

Sharon <huie@...> wrote:

A mom I met recently went in to get her amnio results. They told her

that her baby had DS, and then handed her a piece of paper with a date and time

written on it, and said " we made your appointment for the termination " .

Absolutely no counseling, support what so ever. This mom told them to shove it,

and now is the very proud mom of a gorgeous baby, who happens to have DS. She is

now serving as the contact person for our support group to talk to other moms

that receive the news in-utero. This is a huge goal for our support group, not

to try and sway the moms that receive an in-utero diagnosis one way or another,

but to give them balanced, fair and appopriate information. Now the moms aren't

offered any type of information at all. When we met with the charge nurse at one

of the local ob-gyn offices, and offered the services of the support group, she

burst into tears and thanked us, said how much our group, and our information is

needed. We go to meet with the docs

in a couple of weeks. After we meet with them, we are heading for the amnio

clinic next.

Sharon H.

Mom to , (15, DS) and , (11)

South Carolina

" Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of

battle. "

Abortions for DS Fetuses

Abortions on Down Syndrome Babies Still High, Maybe 85 Percent

Nashville, TN (LifeNews.com) -- Abortions on babies with Down syndrome are still

high and estimates show that as many as 85 percent of babies with the condition

are victims of abortion. " To me it's scary, " Imparato, president and

chief executive officer of the American Association of People with Disabilities,

told the Tennessean newspaper. " It's like trying to create a master race. " Dr.

Summar, a pediatrician at the Vanderbilt children's hospital's Down

syndrome clinic says she also thinks that more women are probably having

abortions when tests show the baby has the condition. Still, she thinks more

data is needed to prove it. Research shows only about half the expected number

of babies with Down syndrome were born in 2001. The study in The American

Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology found a nationwide decline in Down syndrome

births, even as more women are giving birth later in life, which greatly

increases the risk of Down syndrome.

Has anyone else seen this? I didn't think parents were still being told to do

this! So Sad!!!

Reggie

__________________________________________________________

Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools,

free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL

Mail and more.

[Guest guest]

Oh my goodness... I can't believe this is happening..... while I believe it is a

woman's right to choose... to have medical professionals just make the

appointment assuming that this needs to be done is horrifiying

--------- Abortions for DS Fetuses

Abortions on Down Syndrome Babies Still High, Maybe 85 Percent

Nashville, TN (LifeNews.com) -- Abortions on babies with Down syndrome are still

high and estimates show that as many as 85 percent of babies with the condition

are victims of abortion. " To me it's scary, " Imparato, president and

chief executive officer of the American Association of People with Disabilities,

told the Tennessean newspaper. " It's like trying to create a master race. " Dr.

Summar, a pediatrician at the Vanderbilt children's hospital's Down

syndrome clinic says she also thinks that more women are probably having

abortions when tests show the baby has the condition. Still, she thinks more

data is needed to prove it. Research shows only about half the expected number

of babies with Down syndrome were born in 2001. The study in The American

Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology found a nationwide decline in Down syndrome

births, even as more women are giving birth later in life, which greatly

increases the risk of Down syndrome.

Has anyone else seen this? I didn't think parents were still being told to do

this! So Sad!!!

Reggie

__________________________________________________________

Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools,

free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL

Mail and more.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/24/2006 5:40:43 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

mjfries@... writes:

" Wow - I didn't realize they let THAT happen anymore " . Obviously we don't

see him anymore. This was in 2002.

Oh Michele...that is so WRONG. What a statement to make. I just cannot

believe how much compassion some can loose along the way. I know you see a lot

in

the medical field, but COME ON!!

When my na was born 17 yrs ago. She was documented as a FLK.

I just recently found out what that meant. FUNNY LOOKING KID. How sad is

that??

Her Geneticist also made a comment about her development that has stuck to

me for years......he said, " You can teach a dog tricks. "

Sickening.

Laurie

Proud Mom to 4 and maybe more!?

[Guest guest]

Well - somedays when I think back and get riled up I wish I had had something to

say to those people - but at the time - well first being pregnant and emotional

I couldn't - and then at the doctors with a new baby - well still emotional I

guess.

Now - at almost 4 years old I realize what a gift she is - for our whole family

- and how much she has taught us about love. She is just the light of our

lives. Sometimes she is the only one who can make me smile when I'm having one

of those days... She is really quite healthy - and contrary to their

predictions - she doesn't just walk... she RUNS. In fact we call her the

gingerbread girl because she runs so fast - giggling the whole time. She also

has this incredible ability to make complete strangers (even crabby old ones)

fall head over heels in love with her inside of 5 minutes. Sometimes I think

she picks someone she thinks might be a " challenge " to win over - and she does

it everytime. Now - at this point she only says 5 words - but she does know

about 200 signs and uses them and her cuteness to get whatever she wants. If I

thought it would make a difference I'd go tell those doctors how wrong they

were.

Michele

Re: Abortions for DS Fetuses

Okay THAT is modifying. I am in shock... I would expect this from someone

with no people skills or experience but it's inexcusable in the medical

community.

Tonight, as Hannah and Theresa were giggling like monkeys while we played

the " counting " game, I had this thought of " wow... how lucky am I!! "

Heartbreaking to think of the people that will never experience anything like

that

moment.

" Professionals " with no experience with people with disabilities have no

place counseling others... IMHO.

Connie

In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:41:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

mjfries@... writes:

We were given " genetic counseling " when our AFP test came back ever so

slightly outside of normal... this genetic counseling was more like abortion

counseling. It was horrific really - thinking back. We were told " it " would

never walk, talk, be a productive member of society, would most likely need

expensive heart surgeries etc. The counselor couldn't believe we didn't want

an amnio - and when the doctor at the ultrasound place found out we wouldn't

do an amnio and wouldn't abort no matter what he was extremely rude to us -

barely spoke to us actually. It was awful.

Later after she was born I was at my family doctor - and he took one look at

her and said " Wow - I didn't realize they let THAT happen anymore " .

Obviously we don't see him anymore. This was in 2002.

Michele

[Guest guest]

It WILL make a difference. Go tell them, and also tell them they all ought to

be barred from medical practice for even SUGGESTING that you terminate the life

of your child for any reason. That is YOUR choice, and the topic of

conversation should only have been brought up by you. As far as I am concerned,

any doctor (and this goes for all of you who experienced this) who even remotely

comments on it should be reported to the AMA for unethical medical practices.

, mom to Reece with DS, 4 1/2

Re: Abortions for DS Fetuses

Okay THAT is modifying. I am in shock... I would expect this from someone

with no people skills or experience but it's inexcusable in the medical

community.

Tonight, as Hannah and Theresa were giggling like monkeys while we played

the " counting " game, I had this thought of " wow... how lucky am I!! "

Heartbreaking to think of the people that will never experience anything like

that

moment.

" Professionals " with no experience with people with disabilities have no

place counseling others... IMHO.

Connie

In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:41:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

mjfries@... writes:

We were given " genetic counseling " when our AFP test came back ever so

slightly outside of normal... this genetic counseling was more like abortion

counseling. It was horrific really - thinking back. We were told " it " would

never walk, talk, be a productive member of society, would most likely need

expensive heart surgeries etc. The counselor couldn't believe we didn't want

an amnio - and when the doctor at the ultrasound place found out we wouldn't

do an amnio and wouldn't abort no matter what he was extremely rude to us -

barely spoke to us actually. It was awful.

Later after she was born I was at my family doctor - and he took one look at

her and said " Wow - I didn't realize they let THAT happen anymore " .

Obviously we don't see him anymore. This was in 2002.

Michele

[Guest guest]

I had a lab tech say that to another lab tech as I was leaving with .

She turned, thinking I couldn't hear and said, " they have TESTS for that

now! No one needs to live like that anymore " something to that

effect...very hurtful, but I am sad for them at their level of ignorance. I

just picked him up and gave him a BIG kiss and hug and as I was opening the

door to leave, I just said real loud, " common sweetie, let's go get some

lunch " and he gave his huge smile and hugged me back and said, OK MOMMY!!

Everyone waiting in the lobby was smiling at with the " oh, how cute "

look. ...It was a very small lab, the techs couldn't have missed it and

hopefully, they could " feel the love " that he radiates.

Kym

----- Original Message -----

> " Wow - I didn't realize they let THAT happen anymore " . Obviously we don't

> see him anymore. This was in 2002.

[Guest guest]

This all just makes my stomach sick.

Re: Abortions for DS Fetuses

I had a lab tech say that to another lab tech as I was leaving with .

She turned, thinking I couldn't hear and said, " they have TESTS for that

now! No one needs to live like that anymore " something to that

effect...very hurtful, but I am sad for them at their level of ignorance. I

just picked him up and gave him a BIG kiss and hug and as I was opening the

door to leave, I just said real loud, " common sweetie, let's go get some

lunch " and he gave his huge smile and hugged me back and said, OK MOMMY!!

Everyone waiting in the lobby was smiling at with the " oh, how cute "

look. ...It was a very small lab, the techs couldn't have missed it and

hopefully, they could " feel the love " that he radiates.

Kym

----- Original Message -----

> " Wow - I didn't realize they let THAT happen anymore " . Obviously we don't

> see him anymore. This was in 2002.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/2006 12:44:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

didiers8@... writes:

but then have a difficult birth with a

birth injury like CP.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/2006 12:44:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

didiers8@... writes:

but then have a difficult birth with a

birth injury like CP.

Oh I know Sue.......I have an adorable adopted daughter with CP..... birth

Mom couldn't cope.

I'm glad she at realized this......although a little too late for Marissa's

best interest. Now we are trying to undo all the hurt. It may never be totally

undone, but at least we can show her what it is to be a part of a family

that loves her UNCONDITIONALLY!

Laurie

[Guest guest]

I'm on a list of moms over 40 trying to have babies (I joined when I was pg

with Lucas at 41) and most of them say they will abort with a diagnosis of

DS. I find it appalling, especially when some go to such lengths to get pg.

Sue

>

> Has anyone else seen this? I didn't think parents were still being told

> to do this! So Sad!!!

>

> Reggie

[Guest guest]

People say all the time that they want the testing so they can be prepared.

Our 5th (Lucas) has a heart defect, our 6th (Ruthie) has DS. In both cases

we didn't know until birth and for us, that was the best thing. Had I found

out mid-pregnancy, I'd have been a wreck for the 2nd half of the pregnancy

and really for nothing. Lucas hasn't had any problems so far due to his

defect, Ruthie has been an absolute joy to us.

Our experience has been those that say they just want to know to be prepared

are often more willing to abort than they even realize. I know that that's

anecdotal and there are probably many for which that isn't the case.

Sue

>

> I have to wonder.. really what does the testing do? Is DS a preventable

> birth defect? ( no) The only so called " prevention " for DS is abortion.

>

>

> Ok.. I will get off my soap box before I go on and on.

>

> Steph

[Guest guest]

One of the things that I find scary about this is I wonder what people do

when they would abort for a defect, but then have a difficult birth with a

birth injury like CP.

A 'good' amnio is no guarantee of a 'good outcome'. In my mind, we have

babies because we want to add to our family, not to get the perfect child or

to get a boy or a girl.

Sue

________________

That is a great story. I wish your group luck. People dont like to talk

about these issues but I think it is important. Getting rid of a child just

because of a dx... where will this lead our society...I call it the Barbie

and Ken factor....we all want to place our order and get just what we think

we want...just like on a shopping trip. Life is beautiful, unpredictable

and natural. I wish people were not so afraid.

Dawn

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/2006 4:45:55 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

didiers8@... writes:

Sometimes they just refuse medical treatment for the child . and if they

cant breathe on their own.. etc.. they die. Not too frequent but it happens.

There

Yes it does happen. And just did. I know a baby that has had a DNR on her

for months. She keeps turning blue and the nurses are instructed to do NOTHING!!

. She has a genetic abnormality-very similar to my daughters ....and a nurse

is trying to adopt her. For the longest time her mom chose to keep her in

the institution and hoped that she would die.

I hope that wonderful nurse was able to get her!

Laurie

[Guest guest]

Sometimes they just refuse medical treatment for the child .. and if

they cant breathe on their own.. etc.. they die. Not too frequent but it

happens. There is a man named Sanger.. a professor of Ethic. Who

says we should be allowed to euthanize a baby for any reason up to the

30th day post partum! You would not believe how many other people are

with him on that.

Steph

Re: Abortions for DS Fetuses

One of the things that I find scary about this is I wonder what people

do

when they would abort for a defect, but then have a difficult birth with

a

birth injury like CP.

[Guest guest]

Amen to that!

Our previous pastor has a daughter with severe CP due to a botched home birth.

Last I heard he sometimes refers to her as " God's little curse " , if I ever see

the man again I may just slap him upside his head!!

Sue

Oh I know Sue.......I have an adorable adopted daughter with CP..... birth Mom

couldn't cope.

I'm glad she at realized this......although a little too late for Marissa's

best interest. Now we are trying to undo all the hurt. It may never be totally

undone, but at least we can show her what it is to be a part of a family that

loves her UNCONDITIONALLY!

Laurie

[Guest guest]

I've heard of that and it makes my skin crawl to think someone could do that. I

guess I can see where one might refuse treatment if continuing would be a

miserable life, but to actually intentionally end a baby's life up to a month

old...my heavens...any for any reason! *shudder*

Sue

Sometimes they just refuse medical treatment for the child . and if they cant

breathe on their own.. etc.. they die. Not too frequent but it happens. There is

a man named Sanger.. a professor of Ethic. Who says we should be allowed

to euthanize a baby for any reason up to the 30th day post partum! You would not

believe how many other people are with him on that.

Steph

[Guest guest]

Sometimes they just refuse medical treatment for the child. and if they

cant breathe on their own.. etc.. they die. Not too frequent but it happens

How sad, but isn't that murder! I know in some instances there is a good

reason for a DNR that is when the end is just being prolonged.

After reading these posts, starting to think I live a very sheltered life.

Jan, mother of Trent, 22yo w/DS from the LandDownUnder

..

There

Yes it does happen. And just did. I know a baby that has had a DNR on her

for months. She keeps turning blue and the nurses are instructed to do

NOTHING!!

. She has a genetic abnormality-very similar to my daughters ....and a

nurse

is trying to adopt her. For the longest time her mom chose to keep her in

the institution and hoped that she would die.

I hope that wonderful nurse was able to get her!

Laurie

[Guest guest]

I think the only way that I could have a DNR is if the baby/child was really

suffering with a painful condition. Even then I think it would be really hard. I

hope that nurse is able to adopt her, too. What's the hold up, if the mom

doesn't want her?

Sue

Yes it does happen. And just did. I know a baby that has had a DNR on her for

months. She keeps turning blue and the nurses are instructed to do NOTHING!! She

has a genetic abnormality-very similar to my daughters ....and a nurse is trying

to adopt her. For the longest time her mom chose to keep her in the institution

and hoped that she would die.

I hope that wonderful nurse was able to get her!

Laurie

[Guest guest]

If we can get the message across that babies with DS are still babies

and should be cherished, then maybe we can make a change. I don't

normally think it is appropriate for children to wear political

clothing, but we bought this shirt for our son to make his own (and

ours) statement.

http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingstuff.65807317

Of course, I don't send him to school in it.

Sometimes you have to be politically incorrect in the face of ignorance.

Martha

Mom to Catie (18) and Aidan (4)

>

>

> Abortions on Down Syndrome Babies Still High, Maybe 85 Percent

> Nashville, TN (LifeNews.com) -- Abortions on babies with Down

syndrome are still high and estimates show that as many as 85 percent

of babies with the condition are victims of abortion. " To me it's

scary, " Imparato, president and chief executive officer of the

American Association of People with Disabilities, told the Tennessean

newspaper. " It's like trying to create a master race. " Dr.

Summar, a pediatrician at the Vanderbilt children's hospital's Down

syndrome clinic says she also thinks that more women are probably

having abortions when tests show the baby has the condition. Still,

she thinks more data is needed to prove it. Research shows only about

half the expected number of babies with Down syndrome were born in

2001. The study in The American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology

found a nationwide decline in Down syndrome births, even as more women

are giving birth later in life, which greatly increases the risk of

Down syndrome.

>

>

> Has anyone else seen this? I didn't think parents were still being

told to do this! So Sad!!!

>

> Reggie

> ________________________________________________________________________

> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and

security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from

across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

>

>

>