Re: personal reflection...don't hate me!

[Guest guest]

I interpreted it as a sarcastic comment as would have been said be

perhaps a member of the IEP team, said about parents who want inclusion

for their child, when others don't think they belong in an included

setting. I don't know if that was the original poster's theme, but I

don't think at all it was meant in the way you considered. I

interpreted as I did because I have heard basically this same sort of

remark (overheard, I should say) from a parent (of a typical child),

having no sympathy for the included child's troubles at school because

" it doesn't work and those kids shouldn't be in our regular

classrooms...... that's what special ed is for " . Nice sentiment, and it

was at church, no less! Just my interpretation.

, mom to (9), (7 DS), and (6)

jbocci55@... wrote:

>I'm confused by this remark. Are we saying that the glitches with inclusion

are to be blamed on parents who chooose not to go the inclusion route? I'm

hoping I just misinterpreted, because I did not choose inclusion for

because my school district, after the elementary years, was not prepared for

inclusion at the jr. and sr. high school level and I personally did not have

the means to make it my full-time job (which you almost have to do, it seems) to

train them to do it properly and constantly be checking up. I would hate to be

accused of sabotaging inclusion for others by choosing what I felt was

appropriate for at the time. I still say it is the professionals dropping

the ball, certainly not the parents. JMHO.

>

>Jackie, mom to 18ds, 15, and Bradley 11

>

>-------------- Original message --------------

>

>

>

>>Oh, I think we should blame the parents. After all, if they didn't want their

>>kids where they didn't belong in the first place.......................

>>

>>Geeez..do I sound bitter?

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Well, that makes more sense to me now. Sometimes I'm a bit thick. I even

waited to respond a few days because I wasn't sure if I understood. I've never

encounted malicious remarks like some on this list encounter from their schools

and even from other parents of " regular " ed kids. I guess I'm one of the few

lucky ones. Whatever I asked for to be included for, I got. Now, Monday

we have a meeting to see if they will pay for an aide for him to be able to

participate on the school swim team. This one might be a challenge.

Jackie, Mom to 18ds, 15, and Bradley 11

-------------- Original message --------------

> I interpreted it as a sarcastic comment as would have been said be

> perhaps a member of the IEP team, said about parents who want inclusion

> for their child, when others don't think they belong in an included

> setting. I don't know if that was the original poster's theme, but I

> don't think at all it was meant in the way you considered. I

> interpreted as I did because I have heard basically this same sort of

> remark (overheard, I should say) from a parent (of a typical child),

> having no sympathy for the included child's troubles at school because

> " it doesn't work and those kids shouldn't be in our regular

> classrooms...... that's what special ed is for " . Nice sentiment, and it

> was at church, no less! Just my interpretation.

>

> , mom to (9), (7 DS), and (6)

>

> jbocci55@... wrote:

>

> >I'm confused by this remark. Are we saying that the glitches with inclusion

> are to be blamed on parents who chooose not to go the inclusion route? I'm

> hoping I just misinterpreted, because I did not choose inclusion for

> because my school district, after the elementary years, was not prepared for

> inclusion at the jr. and sr. high school level and I personally did not have

> the means to make it my full-time job (which you almost have to do, it seems)

to

> train them to do it properly and constantly be checking up. I would hate to be

> accused of sabotaging inclusion for others by choosing what I felt was

> appropriate for at the time. I still say it is the professionals dropping

> the ball, certainly not the parents. JMHO.

> >

> >Jackie, mom to 18ds, 15, and Bradley 11

> >

> >-------------- Original message --------------

> >

> >

> >

> >>Oh, I think we should blame the parents. After all, if they didn't want

their

> >>kids where they didn't belong in the first place.......................

> >>

> >>Geeez..do I sound bitter?

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

You know, Jackie, We have been down this road before.

I have repeatedly told you that I feel it's a parents personal choice,

knowing their child, their family make up and their school district WHAT

type of setting works best for their child.

Yet, everytime I mention inclusion, there are people who get all up in arms

that I feel that if they DON'T have their child included I feel they are

wrong. And I am constantly having to send emails, apologies and now I feel

the need to put disclaimers on any emails I send that discuss school issues.

People on this list discuss seizures and it doesn't concern all of us, so we

just read and go on. People discuss their children wearing glasses and it

doesn't affect all of us. So we read and go on. People discuss any number

of things that don't ALL have to do with ALL of us or ALL of our children.

So, you take what you need, help where you can, and move on.

When people are discussing Inclusion, if you aren't interested, move on.

But some of us need to discuss it. Just as there are those who need to

discuss self contained, or mainstreamed, workshops or group homes.

If there are limits to what we are to discuss, regarding our special needs

children, I guess I missed that email. Please resend it.

My remark, which YOU should know by now, was purely sarcastic. NOT meant to

offend. NOT meant to criticize any parents or any choices. Just a mom who

is stinking tired of having to fight for and defend what is her child's

right, not only with the school district, but with other parents who are

supposed to be my support.

[Guest guest]

Every parent has to make a decision for the individual child based on what

they believe is best for that child. When the parent <chooses> not to have

inclusion (full or partial), that's one thing.

However, a lot of parents who want inclusion and would choose it don't feel

they have the option or have tried without success or have seen the school

do such a bad job that they don't believe they really have that choice.

There are still many districts that prefer NOT to give parents the choice of

inclusion because it's not the way they've always done it, it's perceived as

more expensive, more difficult, etc. etc.

The unfortunate truth is that parents who choose not to include do feed the

district's expectation that they don't have to include and can get away

without letting any parents have that choice--regardless of what the parents

want and what parents believe would be best for their individual child.

I don't think that caring parents who make the choice for the placement that

they honestly believe is best for the child they are raising should be

blamed for anything, but their choice does have a degree of impact on

parents who honestly choose or want to choose inclusion because the

districts use that choice to discourage inclusion and limit the continuum to

what the district want to provide, not what is best for the child.

Just my 2 cents.

Judi

Re: personal reflection...don't hate me!

In a message dated 9/24/2005 7:48:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

jbocci55@... writes:

I'm confused by this remark. Are we saying that the glitches with

inclusion

are to be blamed on parents who chooose not to go the inclusion route?

Oh I don't think that is the way it was meant at all. I think the writer

was saying that whenever a parent does want to go a different way

(inclusion)

they are bucking the system that the district is used to. They are not

sympathetic at all to a parent's plight. I don't believe it had anything

at all to

do with other parents of children with special needs.

Loree

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/2005 9:20:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

mome23kjnc@... writes:

Am I the only one in a school system that ONLY offers inclusion? We

don't even have a self-contained classroom. Im baffled by some of the

discussion, it is so polar opposite to what is here. Maybe because we

live in a small town? Ciarra is 7, is fully mainstreamed in all classes,

but pulled out for math and reading an hr and a half a day. That's the

extent of separate education here. We never had a choice, this is just

how it is done here. Interesting.

Where the heck do you live .... there's probably lots of people that would

want to MOVE there! ;-) I have heard that in may small towns inclusion is an

automatic because it is cheaper to do that. I guess parents that wanted self

contained classes would have the fight most parents do for inclusion.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In the schools that my boys go to inclusion is the only option, it has worked

well for us. For the most part the school district follows an inclusive model

for educating all students but we live in the largest school district in our

town and I do know of one school that does offer a more contained classroom. I

believe that inclusion has been a good thing for my family and also for my

community but I also realize that families need options, I just wish that it was

the families choice for placement not driven by the schools.

mom to 13 and Noah 4 both with Down syndrome

CO

[Guest guest]

Am I the only one in a school system that ONLY offers inclusion? We

don't even have a self-contained classroom. Im baffled by some of the

discussion, it is so polar opposite to what is here. Maybe because we

live in a small town? Ciarra is 7, is fully mainstreamed in all classes,

but pulled out for math and reading an hr and a half a day. That's the

extent of separate education here. We never had a choice, this is just

how it is done here. Interesting.

Re: personal reflection...don't hate me!

In a message dated 9/24/2005 7:48:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

jbocci55@... writes:

I'm confused by this remark. Are we saying that the glitches with

inclusion

are to be blamed on parents who chooose not to go the inclusion route?

Oh I don't think that is the way it was meant at all. I think the

writer

was saying that whenever a parent does want to go a different way

(inclusion)

they are bucking the system that the district is used to. They are not

sympathetic at all to a parent's plight. I don't believe it had

anything

at all to

do with other parents of children with special needs.

Loree

[Guest guest]

,

Each school needs to remember the I in IEP. Perhaps if lived in

your town, then the best placement may not be at the local school (unless

there are less than 10 kids in the classroom) and he'd be sent to another

school.

had something very similiar when he was 7 - to me, it would be very

rare not to include a child at and below 2 grade. Still, I think inclusion

should be more the norm than self-contained.

Re: personal reflection...don't hate me!

>

>

> In a message dated 9/24/2005 7:48:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> jbocci55@... writes:

>

> I'm confused by this remark. Are we saying that the glitches with

> inclusion

> are to be blamed on parents who chooose not to go the inclusion route?

>

>

> Oh I don't think that is the way it was meant at all. I think the

> writer

> was saying that whenever a parent does want to go a different way

> (inclusion)

> they are bucking the system that the district is used to. They are not

>

> sympathetic at all to a parent's plight. I don't believe it had

> anything

> at all to

> do with other parents of children with special needs.

>

> Loree

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , really, we couldn't ask for a MORE Individual IEP. Ciarra is

almost catered to, in many ways. (I mean educationally, not personally).

We get to choose teachers. They bought her her own laptop the first week

of K. They started a program called Circle of Friends where she and 3

other kids get taken out for some special fun time (the other 3 kids

vary) playing games, talking, etc with the Guidance Counselor once a

week. She gets everything we have asked for almost. Our Spec Ed teacher

traveled 2 yrs in a row with us to the NDSS Conferences. She makes the

program, and she is a rare treasure. We really KNOW how blessed we are.

This is the same school K-8, so I should be expecting the same at least

through then. :-)

Re: personal reflection...don't hate me!

,

Each school needs to remember the I in IEP. Perhaps if lived in

your town, then the best placement may not be at the local school

(unless

there are less than 10 kids in the classroom) and he'd be sent to

another

school.

had something very similiar when he was 7 - to me, it would be

very

rare not to include a child at and below 2 grade. Still, I think

inclusion

should be more the norm than self-contained.

Re: personal reflection...don't hate me!

>

>

> In a message dated 9/24/2005 7:48:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> jbocci55@... writes:

>

> I'm confused by this remark. Are we saying that the glitches with

> inclusion

> are to be blamed on parents who chooose not to go the inclusion

route?

>

>

> Oh I don't think that is the way it was meant at all. I think the

> writer

> was saying that whenever a parent does want to go a different way

> (inclusion)

> they are bucking the system that the district is used to. They are

not

>

> sympathetic at all to a parent's plight. I don't believe it had

> anything

> at all to

> do with other parents of children with special needs.

>

> Loree

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow , that's great. Where are we all moving too :-) I've

always thought and Ciarra should meet and be friends.... they

sound very similar!

Actually, I think our district is one of the best ones in our area. We

do have a range of placements.... full inclusion, NSH (non-severely

handicapped), and critical skills. We also have programs for kids on

the autism spectrum (which are supposed to be fantastic, though many

autistic children are included), kids with emotional disturbances, and

kids who are deaf or hard of hearing. Our district has never tried to

place anywhere except the regular classroom with appropriate

pullouts (except for summer school, but that's another issue), at our

request.

For us, because there are other options, it always feels like a bit of a

fight to get her inlcuded with the supports she needs (even though they

have never denied a placement request.... except for summer school). I

think it's because it's like if we go too far in asking for supports,

they could just essentially say " this would be easier (cheaper) for us

to do in NSH " , and for now, that isn't where we think she should be.

We too are very fortunate to be in our district, even though there are

sometimes day-to-day issues of " how " to include , we do have

many options and they are willing to work towards making inclusion work.

, mom to (9), (7 DS), and (6)

wrote:

>Hi , really, we couldn't ask for a MORE Individual IEP. Ciarra is

>almost catered to, in many ways. (I mean educationally, not personally).

>We get to choose teachers. They bought her her own laptop the first week

>of K. They started a program called Circle of Friends where she and 3

>other kids get taken out for some special fun time (the other 3 kids

>vary) playing games, talking, etc with the Guidance Counselor once a

>week. She gets everything we have asked for almost. Our Spec Ed teacher

>traveled 2 yrs in a row with us to the NDSS Conferences. She makes the

>program, and she is a rare treasure. We really KNOW how blessed we are.

>This is the same school K-8, so I should be expecting the same at least

>through then. :-)

>

>

>

> Re: personal reflection...don't hate me!

>

>

>

>,

>

>Each school needs to remember the I in IEP. Perhaps if lived in

>your town, then the best placement may not be at the local school

>(unless

>there are less than 10 kids in the classroom) and he'd be sent to

>another

>school.

>

> had something very similiar when he was 7 - to me, it would be

>very

>rare not to include a child at and below 2 grade. Still, I think

>inclusion

>should be more the norm than self-contained.

>

>

> Re: personal reflection...don't hate me!

>>

>>

>>In a message dated 9/24/2005 7:48:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

>>jbocci55@... writes:

>>

>>I'm confused by this remark. Are we saying that the glitches with

>>inclusion

>>are to be blamed on parents who chooose not to go the inclusion

>>

>>

>route?

>

>

>>Oh I don't think that is the way it was meant at all. I think the

>>writer

>>was saying that whenever a parent does want to go a different way

>>(inclusion)

>>they are bucking the system that the district is used to. They are

>>

>>

>not

>

>

>>sympathetic at all to a parent's plight. I don't believe it had

>>anything

>>at all to

>>do with other parents of children with special needs.

>>

>>Loree

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

I live in Maine. I think you are right about if we wanted

self-contained, we would have to do some serious digging to get it. I

know of a little boy from my town whose mom felt he needed something

different and he ended up being sent to a school about 30 minutes away

every day. Our town has one school K-8th grade. This is what is done

here. I am really glad usually. But sometimes I get that wondering

feeling, what WOULD self-contained offer that would benefit Ciarra. Its

funny how experiences are so different. I am VERY grateful to live here

in a community that embraces my daughter. The local paper wrote a

beautiful story about her and it was called " Girl, town tie knot of

caring " ..it was awesome. :-) We are very very lucky, and very very

grateful.

Re: personal reflection...don't hate me!

In a message dated 9/25/2005 9:20:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

mome23kjnc@... writes:

Am I the only one in a school system that ONLY offers inclusion? We

don't even have a self-contained classroom. Im baffled by some of the

discussion, it is so polar opposite to what is here. Maybe because we

live in a small town? Ciarra is 7, is fully mainstreamed in all classes,

but pulled out for math and reading an hr and a half a day. That's the

extent of separate education here. We never had a choice, this is just

how it is done here. Interesting.

Where the heck do you live .... there's probably lots of people that

would want to MOVE there! ;-) I have heard that in may small towns

inclusion is an automatic because it is cheaper to do that. I guess

parents that wanted self contained classes would have the fight most

parents do for inclusion.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

, we should get them together on webcam sometime, so they can

talk. She does that with several friends. They voice chat and talk via

cam for hours. Last night she did magic tricks for them (her new passion

is MAGIC) It would be awesome for her to have a penpal, or an email pal.

Maybe we can set something up?

http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/c/ciarraspage/

Re: personal reflection...don't hate me!

>

>

>

>,

>

>Each school needs to remember the I in IEP. Perhaps if lived

in

>your town, then the best placement may not be at the local school

>(unless

>there are less than 10 kids in the classroom) and he'd be sent to

>another

>school.

>

> had something very similiar when he was 7 - to me, it would be

>very

>rare not to include a child at and below 2 grade. Still, I think

>inclusion

>should be more the norm than self-contained.

>

>

> Re: personal reflection...don't hate me!

>>

>>

>>In a message dated 9/24/2005 7:48:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

>>jbocci55@... writes:

>>

>>I'm confused by this remark. Are we saying that the glitches with

>>inclusion

>>are to be blamed on parents who chooose not to go the inclusion

>>

>>

>route?

>

>

>>Oh I don't think that is the way it was meant at all. I think the

>>writer

>>was saying that whenever a parent does want to go a different way

>>(inclusion)

>>they are bucking the system that the district is used to. They are

>>

>>

>not

>

>

>>sympathetic at all to a parent's plight. I don't believe it had

>>anything

>>at all to

>>do with other parents of children with special needs.

>>

>>Loree

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/2005 9:20:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

mome23kjnc@... writes:

Am I the only one in a school system that ONLY offers inclusion

Count yourself blessed. It would be an interesting poll to see how many

have inclusion offered to them in their school district.

Loree

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/2005 4:56:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

cindysue@... writes:

I'm planning a trip up north

for next year, with or without him

Well if your coming to New York let me know. You can't leave NY without

seeing Long Island!!!

Loree

[Guest guest]

Awww - Maine is #1 in the country for serving children right now. I don't

think my hubby would move to a colder climate - I'm planning a trip up north

for next year, with or without him

Re: personal reflection...don't hate me!

>

>

>

> In a message dated 9/25/2005 9:20:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> mome23kjnc@... writes:

>

> Am I the only one in a school system that ONLY offers inclusion? We

> don't even have a self-contained classroom. Im baffled by some of the

> discussion, it is so polar opposite to what is here. Maybe because we

> live in a small town? Ciarra is 7, is fully mainstreamed in all classes,

> but pulled out for math and reading an hr and a half a day. That's the

> extent of separate education here. We never had a choice, this is just

> how it is done here. Interesting.

>

> Where the heck do you live .... there's probably lots of people that

> would want to MOVE there! ;-) I have heard that in may small towns

> inclusion is an automatic because it is cheaper to do that. I guess

> parents that wanted self contained classes would have the fight most

> parents do for inclusion.

>

> Cheryl in VA

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You know I think the biggest problem is too often the " I " in IEP is ignored

in favor of the " this is way we have always done it. " In my county the

special ed liaison person was pushing hard for my son to be 'shipped' to the

school where they 'traditionally educated the moderately and severely mentally

impaired students.' She was pushing this option from day one of coming on

board

to our IEP meetings, for two years we have successful requested and received

placement in my son's home school over her pleas to do otherwise. I've

compromised by requesting that my son receives his academics through the

special

ed teachers in the resource room, he attends regular ed only for home base,

specialists, lunch, assemblies and skills class (fancy name for study hall)

while the special ed department is at lunch (his class has the following

lunch).

Do I want my son to be the 'token' special needs child? By no means, but I

believe his adaptability skills (and mimicking skills) make at least partial

inclusion a very viable solution; however, without the proper supports in

place it will fail miserably and I believe whether intentional or not many

times

school systems agree with parents requests for inclusion but choose not to

provide the supports necessary to make it successful. (My county's big reason

for no aide for when my son is in regular ed is 'we are teaching him

independence' and 'he doesn't need an aide for self-help skills' (read that last

one

as he can go to the bathroom and navigate the halls alone so he doesn't need

an aide). Now mind you my son has discovered that there are times when no

one is in the resource room so he figures out an acceptable excuse for leaving

the regular ed environment (bathroom break) and slips into the resource room

to play a math computer game. When he needs a break (for whatever reason as

we {mom and dad} have no clue what it is), he asks to go to the bathroom.

The staff says they have to let him go. If the resource room isn't empty,

then he goes and hangs out in the bathroom (singing, talking or humming to

himself) until someone decides he has been gone a long time and goes searching

for

him. School sends me notations on his communication notebook of all the

times he goes, but even though I have requested it several times no work ever

comes home -- guess he isn't missing anything and if that is the case no wonder

he wants to hang out in the bathroom singing, talking or humming -- sure

beats seating and doing nothing.

Cari

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/2005 8:03:24 PM Central Standard Time,

wineandthunder@... writes:

the token child with special

needs in a classroom.

HI (my nickels worth

Not to be complaining but I would hate to think that my daughter or any of

my children were looked at as a " token " anything ..... Shame on the

individuals in school who would think that.

Sara has been mainstreamed since she could walk, she's been pulled out for

reading and math only because she does different programs and she would battle

the teachers to do the norm reading program or math programs and not her own

individualized program (we did try). As many on this list know Ive had a few

battles with having Sara included in Reg Ed but by the end of the year Sara

has succeed more than we ever expected. Teachers who were hesitant to have

Sara in their class thanked me later for fighting to keep her included. They

walked away with a new insight to what our children can do and what they do for

everyone else. In Sara's 1st grade year we had 3 different Sped teachers, 2

quit without any notice .............. this was a rough year for Sara with the

transitions of new teachers into her life. The 2 that quit should have quit,

they were awful and Sara barely succeeded that year, even being in a Sped

classroom. Sara's elem. administrator probably never supported Inclusion but

she did have a healthy fear of the laws that protect our kids sooooo she

stayed out of my way. Sara through the years has mastered every goal we set up

for

her except for shoe tying ............. can you imagine if I kept her in

Sped all day just for that

All of our children are different .... so different placements should be

offered. Sara I believe will master all functional goals we write for her in

the

years to come, but what Im most impressed with is her gain in language, I

truly believe if I kept her in the Sped classes that's she had (most were small

and most non-verbal) she would not be where she is ...... receptively and

expressively. With Sara's social personality, language is a must to succeed in

her life and we are moving along that road with the help of all involved in

her program and that means my involvement too, shoot the IEP team is the one

that puts my name along side of their's on the " responsibility line " lol.

IMHO

Kathy mom to Sara 13

¸...¸ ___/ /\ \___ ¸...¸

,·´º o`·, /__/ _/\_ \__\ ,·´º o`·,

```)¨(´´´ | | | | | | | | | ```)¨(´´´

¸,.-·²°´ ¸,.-·~·~·-.,¸ `°²·-.¸

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Josh. 24:15

[Guest guest]

I do not believe that we (those whose children are in

self contained) " feed " into districts not wanting to

provide inclusion as an option. Inclusion is a

fabulous option, but if not done right it is a total

waste of instructional time for our children, not to

mention most of us do not have the time or energy to

run to the school everytime something is not working.

If your administration does not support inclusion the

teachers won't either. Putting in inclusion

would be ludicrous because she has NO language skills

and needs the small group and less distraction that

she would only get in a special ed classroom. I do not

feel we should be blaming others for anything we do

for our children. As she gets older inclusion will be

more of an option. As a sped teacher I know how hard

this is for all of us. I want my child and my students

to succeed, not just be the token child with special

needs in a classroom. Oh I am venting!!! I have had my

say and oh I feel so much better.

Heidi, 7,DS

--- Ralph & Judi Lowenthal <lowenthalrj@...>

wrote:

> Every parent has to make a decision for the

> individual child based on what

> they believe is best for that child. When the

> parent <chooses> not to have

> inclusion (full or partial), that's one thing.

>

> However, a lot of parents who want inclusion and

> would choose it don't feel

> they have the option or have tried without success

> or have seen the school

> do such a bad job that they don't believe they

> really have that choice.

>

> There are still many districts that prefer NOT to

> give parents the choice of

> inclusion because it's not the way they've always

> done it, it's perceived as

> more expensive, more difficult, etc. etc.

>

> The unfortunate truth is that parents who choose not

> to include do feed the

> district's expectation that they don't have to

> include and can get away

> without letting any parents have that

> choice--regardless of what the parents

> want and what parents believe would be best for

> their individual child.

>

> I don't think that caring parents who make the

> choice for the placement that

> they honestly believe is best for the child they are

> raising should be

> blamed for anything, but their choice does have a

> degree of impact on

> parents who honestly choose or want to choose

> inclusion because the

> districts use that choice to discourage inclusion

> and limit the continuum to

> what the district want to provide, not what is best

> for the child.

>

> Just my 2 cents.

> Judi

>

>

> Re: personal reflection...don't

> hate me!

>

>

> In a message dated 9/24/2005 7:48:52 P.M. Eastern

> Standard Time,

> jbocci55@... writes:

>

> I'm confused by this remark. Are we saying that

> the glitches with

> inclusion

> are to be blamed on parents who chooose not to go

> the inclusion route?

>

>

> Oh I don't think that is the way it was meant at

> all. I think the writer

> was saying that whenever a parent does want to go a

> different way

> (inclusion)

> they are bucking the system that the district is

> used to. They are not

> sympathetic at all to a parent's plight. I don't

> believe it had anything

> at all to

> do with other parents of children with special

> needs.

>

> Loree

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

> Click reply to all for messages to go to the list.

> Just hit reply for

> messages to go to the sender of the message.

>

[Guest guest]

As a sped teacher I know how hard

this is for all of us. I want my child and my students

to succeed, not just be the token child with special

needs in a classroom.

***************************************************************

And is it not possible for a child to be successful in a self-contained,

mainstreamed OR inclusive setting?

Can they only be successful in one setting?

Does the fact that the child is the different make him so that he's not

going to be successful?

Oh my, NOW I am worried. My children are 2 of 12 African American children

in a high school of 2,000.

They're sunk before they even start.

What happened to different being OK? What happened to Individual Education

Plan?

When the TEAM works together, it can only make it better.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/2005 8:41:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

wineandthunder@... writes:

If your administration does not support inclusion the

teachers won't either

This is not true because all I did was fight the administration for Micah to

be fully included and now in kindergarten ALL his teachers and therapists

have embraced him and inclusion. His sped teacher called me the other day to

tell me that she was talking to the reg ed teacher and said " Do you realize

that we are learning three languages this year? Spanish, English and sign

language " They have been teaching the class signs that Micah uses as well as

new

signs each day. Administration is not necessarily a reflection on how the

teachers will respond.

Loree

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/2005 8:41:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

wineandthunder@... writes:

I want my child and my students

to succeed, not just be the token child with special

needs in a classroom.

This reminds me of a little black girl in Alabama that needed the sheriff'

and deputies with rifles to allow her into the public school system. The

" token " black. What we are all forgetting is this whole issue is about civil

rights. The rights of the disabled is the last frontier. We have fought for

blacks and women (still fighting on both counts) and now we MUST continue to

fight for our children with disabilities. If it is the right placement for

some of our children to be in with " typical " children then they should have

that

right, and fighting each other is the last thing we need to be doing. If my

son is the " token " special needs child so be it, if that is what needs to

be done and it is where he will get the appropriate education for him. I will

keep on fighting. I am from that group of kids from the 60's and 70's (now

I am aging myself lol) who fought the good fight, this sure is one fight

worth the battle! And I for one will keep on keepin on...

Loree no disclaimer just the way I feel

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/26/2005 8:38:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

mome23kjnc@... writes:

If they

didn't believe in inclusion here, they would have stuck her in that room

(the token sn kid) and let her just BE there with no supports and no

commitment to doing it WELL.

It has nothing to do with whether " they " believe in inclusion or not. It is

the law! That is exactly why we have to keep fighting!

Loree

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/26/2005 10:28:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

mome23kjnc@... writes:

what the law is and what the general practice is are thoroughly different

things for some people. Having " them " believe in inclusion certainly helps.

I am not fighting you , honestly. but I do think that sometimes

parents are so worn down by their districts that it is easier to give in to

what

the general practice is, even when it is wrong. My district has been very

hard to fight. They are antiquated in their thinking but now Micah is getting

the benefit of being where he should be right now in this moment. ]I think

we need to support each other in our quests to achieve the balance we need

for our children whatever that might be. I don't usually get my dander up but

the " token " child thing really cut me and it may not have been meant the way

it was said but it still was offensive. I don't take that as an opinion.

Any opinion is valid and supported, but a remark like that should not come from

one of our own.

Loree

[Guest guest]

Here's how your " venting " feeds the anti-inclusion attitude of many

districts:

1. " If not done right [inclusion] is a total waste of instructional time for

our children "

District take: we don't have to invest in doing inclusion correctly because

we can cop out that since we don't invest, it would just be dumping the

student.

However, you can dump a student in a self-contained classroom just as

easily--supports are supports and can follow a child into any environment.

2. " Most of us do not have the time or energy to

run to the school everytime something is not working. "

District take: If we make it so hard and time-consuming for parents to

include, then they won't want to.

However, the District is supposed to have the professional development and

resources to support the child--parents aren't supposed to have to be the

behavioral experts, inclusion facilitators, curricular adapters, and often

shrinks for the teachers.

3. " If your administration does not support inclusion the

teachers won't either. "

District take: Let's make sure we discourage all those bright-eyed teachers

who would be very willing and maybe able to do inclusion and then claim it's

the teacher who aren't on board.

However, often the regular education teachers and some sped teachers are the

most interested in inclusive teaching.

4. " NO language skills. "

District take: Children with language deficits cannot be included.

However, many students with language deficits are able to succeed in

inclusion--like one young man I know who is totally non-verbal, yet

attending college. (He was always included before he graduated.)

5. " needs the small group "

District take: small group instruction is only available in sped.

However, that isn't so, especially in elementary when options like activity

stations are routinely used in regular ed classes.

6. " less distraction "

District take: a self-contained classroom is the only way to ensure that the

child is not distracted by an over stimulating and over challenging

environment.

However, sometimes our children need both stimulation and challenge to learn

and to not be bored to tears.

7. " inclusion will be more of an option [as a child gets older] "

District take: we'll pacify parents who want inclusion by telling them that

the child will be able to be included later.

However, in practice most children never are allowed to earn the privilege

of entry into those regular education classes because they still have a

disability and the district never learned to work with it in regular

education because the district never had to.

8. " I want my child and my students to succeed, not just be the token child

with special needs in a classroom. "

District take: Children with special needs cannot really succeed in a

regular education classroom.

Allow me to vent as well.

has been included since preschool and, as some long timers on the

list are aware, our district has made it very difficult. VERY difficult.

She is in 11th grade now, with mostly regular education classes. She has

friends who have and who don't have disabilities and participates in a

variety of activities, including choral performances with the HS group,

football games, and yes we're even looking at the prom this year. She's

taking standardized assessments and interestingly is doing much better on

them than the district predicted based on their educational prejudices--oh,

sorry, I meant educational expertise. I don't think she has been or is a

" token child with special needs " at all and I find that statement highly

offensive as well as a very clear support of an anti-inclusive attitude that

most certainly feeds into the same anti-inclusive attitude many district

espouse.

But I'm so glad that you feel better for expressing it.

Judi (sorry , but I couldn't not say it)

Re: personal reflection...don't

> hate me!

>

>

> In a message dated 9/24/2005 7:48:52 P.M. Eastern

> Standard Time,

> jbocci55@... writes:

>

> I'm confused by this remark. Are we saying that

> the glitches with

> inclusion

> are to be blamed on parents who chooose not to go

> the inclusion route?

>

>

> Oh I don't think that is the way it was meant at

> all. I think the writer

> was saying that whenever a parent does want to go a

> different way

> (inclusion)

> they are bucking the system that the district is

> used to. They are not

> sympathetic at all to a parent's plight. I don't

> believe it had anything

> at all to

> do with other parents of children with special

> needs.

>

> Loree

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

> Click reply to all for messages to go to the list.

> Just hit reply for

> messages to go to the sender of the message.

>

[Guest guest]

what the law is and what the general practice is are thoroughly different

things for some people. Having " them " believe in inclusion certainly helps.

On a side note, I feel as though I walked into a ticking time bomb on this

discussion, and would prefer I hadnt posted at all. I think a wise woman said

fighting each other was not doing any of us any good. I would just leave it at

what works for some doesnt for others, for a variety of reasons. I am all for

fighting for the things my daughter needs, while also recognizing that there are

limitations in practice and in theory.

---- Loree5@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 9/26/2005 8:38:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> mome23kjnc@... writes:

>

> If they

> didn't believe in inclusion here, they would have stuck her in that room

> (the token sn kid) and let her just BE there with no supports and no

> commitment to doing it WELL.

>

>

> It has nothing to do with whether " they " believe in inclusion or not. It is

> the law! That is exactly why we have to keep fighting!

>

> Loree