Guest guest Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 In an oral communication from Dr. Allan, DC, NMD, DIDAK, DABCN, he said his research showed calcium carbonate can take anywhere from 12 to 24 steps or reactions in the body to convert to usable calcium. Calcium Citrate or Ascorbate can take 3 or 4 steps and calcium lactate requires only one step. Calcium carbonate does absorb, but what I've heard is you only get up to 35% of the calcium from calcium carbonate because of the loss at each step in the conversion. The key is the number of reaction steps to usability -- the more steps, the less usable calcium you end up with. Since calcium carbonate is abundant (everything from dolomite to oyster shells) and cheap, that's what the discount vitamin stores will sell. Sunny, what have yo heard? Christian Mathisen DC 3654 S Pacific Hwy Medford, OR 97501 cmathdc@... google me this.... ......recent google of "calcium carbonate absorption" lists nearly 2 million hits....and what they say in the first half-dozen are quite tilted to the 'tums is good' side....and seem overly impressed with their version of how wonderful carbonate is...That ain't what I learned in school.....any comments from our resident nutritional buffs?J. Pedersen DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Yeah, Jack .... it's called marketing! Did cha see the front-page article in the RG about the increase in the use of pain killers with one of the reasons listed as 'physicians attempt to manage a person's disease' ...it is now such a well known tactic that the papers actually print it! And, of course, NO WHERE does it mention that it might be smart to refer to doctors who actually DO get people out of pain. speaking of which .... WHY are we focusing on wellness care???? Granted it is vital info but how about advertising us as 'getting people out of pain' and tuck in the wellness info as they begin to thrive back into their lives????????????!!! my am rant today Sunny ;'-)) Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C Eugene, Oregon, 97401 541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955 From: chirodoc1@...Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:01:38 -0700Subject: google me this.... ......recent google of "calcium carbonate absorption" lists nearly 2 million hits....and what they say in the first half-dozen are quite tilted to the 'tums is good' side....and seem overly impressed with their version of how wonderful carbonate is...That ain't what I learned in school.....any comments from our resident nutritional buffs?J. Pedersen DC Messenger Café — open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Christian If you ion the calcium carbonate you can increase it's absorption. Most calcium tablets have fillers and have to break down before there are utilized. So in most cases there is very little absorption. I was frustrated for my self and my patients until I was introduced to a isotonic form of calcium. The company is NutraMetrix. Their calcium has five different calciums and an isotonic delivery system. Absorption is about 90-95%. If you would like more info you can call me at 503-747-2429 or e-mail me at docbono1@... Carl Bonofiglio, D.C. P.S. The calcium has a great taste and for patients that don't like swallowing pills or can't This is the way to go. -- Re: google me this.... In an oral communication from Dr. Allan, DC, NMD, DIDAK, DABCN, he said his research showed calcium carbonate can take anywhere from 12 to 24 steps or reactions in the body to convert to usable calcium. Calcium Citrate or Ascorbate can take 3 or 4 steps and calcium lactate requires only one step. Calcium carbonate does absorb, but what I've heard is you only get up to 35% of the calcium from calcium carbonate because of the loss at each step in the conversion. The key is the number of reaction steps to usability -- the more steps, the less usable calcium you end up with. Since calcium carbonate is abundant (everything from dolomite to oyster shells) and cheap, that's what the discount vitamin stores will sell. Sunny, what have yo heard? Christian Mathisen DC 3654 S Pacific Hwy Medford, OR 97501 cmathdcjeffnet (DOT) org google me this.... ......recent google of "calcium carbonate absorption" lists nearly 2 million hits....and what they say in the first half-dozen are quite tilted to the 'tums is good' side....and seem overly impressed with their version of how wonderful carbonate is...That ain't what I learned in school.....any comments from our resident nutritional buffs?J. Pedersen DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 aaaabbbbsoluteatootally....jibes with my research! And powdered or liquid forms absorb, distribute and get utilized EVEN faster! Sunny ;'-)) Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C Eugene, Oregon, 97401 541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955 From: cmathdc@...Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 08:10:25 -0700Subject: Re: google me this.... In an oral communication from Dr. Allan, DC, NMD, DIDAK, DABCN, he said his research showed calcium carbonate can take anywhere from 12 to 24 steps or reactions in the body to convert to usable calcium. Calcium Citrate or Ascorbate can take 3 or 4 steps and calcium lactate requires only one step. Calcium carbonate does absorb, but what I've heard is you only get up to 35% of the calcium from calcium carbonate because of the loss at each step in the conversion. The key is the number of reaction steps to usability -- the more steps, the less usable calcium you end up with. Since calcium carbonate is abundant (everything from dolomite to oyster shells) and cheap, that's what the discount vitamin stores will sell. Sunny, what have yo heard? Christian Mathisen DC 3654 S Pacific Hwy Medford, OR 97501 cmathdcjeffnet (DOT) org google me this.... ......recent google of "calcium carbonate absorption" lists nearly 2 million hits....and what they say in the first half-dozen are quite tilted to the 'tums is good' side....and seem overly impressed with their version of how wonderful carbonate is...That ain't what I learned in school.....any comments from our resident nutritional buffs?J. Pedersen DC New home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 I don't get this? If you put citric acid into calcium carbonate you get CO2 released and Calcium citrate in solution. The same is true with HCl even at the Ph a healthy stomach has. The HCl in stomach acid is a stronger acid than citric acid and will completely ionize the carbonate to Ca++ as long as there is HCl being produced. There is no other oxidation state of Calcium like there is with iron (++ or +++) so there should be no other "steps" to bioavailability. What am I missing other than the person not having sufficient H+ to dissolve the carbonate form. Am I missing something or are we making this more complex that it really is? Colwell From: Sunny Kierstyn Christian Mathisen ; Oregon Chiropractors Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 5:11 PM Subject: RE: google me this.... aaaabbbbsoluteatootally....jibes with my research! And powdered or liquid forms absorb, distribute and get utilized EVEN faster! Sunny ;'-)) Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955 From: cmathdcjeffnet (DOT) orgDate: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 08:10:25 -0700Subject: Re: google me this.... In an oral communication from Dr. Allan, DC, NMD, DIDAK, DABCN, he said his research showed calcium carbonate can take anywhere from 12 to 24 steps or reactions in the body to convert to usable calcium. Calcium Citrate or Ascorbate can take 3 or 4 steps and calcium lactate requires only one step. Calcium carbonate does absorb, but what I've heard is you only get up to 35% of the calcium from calcium carbonate because of the loss at each step in the conversion. The key is the number of reaction steps to usability -- the more steps, the less usable calcium you end up with. Since calcium carbonate is abundant (everything from dolomite to oyster shells) and cheap, that's what the discount vitamin stores will sell. Sunny, what have yo heard? Christian Mathisen DC 3654 S Pacific Hwy Medford, OR 97501 cmathdcjeffnet (DOT) org google me this.... ......recent google of "calcium carbonate absorption" lists nearly 2 million hits....and what they say in the first half-dozen are quite tilted to the 'tums is good' side....and seem overly impressed with their version of how wonderful carbonate is...That ain't what I learned in school.....any comments from our resident nutritional buffs?J. Pedersen DC New home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.1/963 - Release Date: 8/20/2007 5:44 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Hi , Your chemistry is impeccable and absolutely correct. Unfortunately most of America does not have the HCL levels of a "healthy stomach." According to using Heidelberg Gastrotelemetry and Goodheart using AK they both came to the conclusion that 90% of Americans produce too little HCL. So we are dealing with unhealthy stomachs to begin with. How many of your patients are on the "purple pill" or other acid blockers in the false belief that less acid is better then correct acid? Pizzorno, I think, suggested putting the calcium pill in water and see how long it takes to dissolve. Since Americans tend closer to a higher stomach pH rather than 1.8, this experiment may be more valid than using good HCL in a lab. Christian Mathisen, DC 3654 S Pacific Hwy Medford, OR 97501 cmathdc@... google me this.... ......recent google of "calcium carbonate absorption" lists nearly 2 million hits....and what they say in the first half-dozen are quite tilted to the 'tums is good' side....and seem overly impressed with their version of how wonderful carbonate is...That ain't what I learned in school.....any comments from our resident nutritional buffs?J. Pedersen DC New home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.1/963 - Release Date: 8/20/2007 5:44 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 90% produce too little acid?? I sincerely find that unbelievable. If the stomach is capable of digesting food, it is capable of the chemical reaction in which Dr. Colwell so eruditely pointed out. Comparing 90% of our stomach acid to water PH is simply misguided. ph Medlin, DCSpine Tree Chiropractic1627 NE Alberta St.Portland, OR 97211 google me this.... ......recent google of "calcium carbonate absorption" lists nearly 2 million hits....and what they say in the first half-dozen are quite tilted to the 'tums is good' side....and seem overly impressed with their version of how wonderful carbonate is...That ain't what I learned in school.....any comments from our resident nutritional buffs?J. Pedersen DC New home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.1/963 - Release Date: 8/20/2007 5:44 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 I agree about the acid blockers being a major problem. These actually do inhibit H+ production and need to be reconsidered. DGL (deglycerized licorice root) and/or ginger cause the esophagus and stomach to secrete more mucus, protecting the tissue and continuing to allow digestion.This has been my mainstay for the GERD patients and it really works well. Nevertheless, the discussion of bioavailability seemed to take a twist not consistent with the chemistry of calcium. For instance: how can the citrate salt of calcium be less available than the lactate when both are soluble in water? (The carbonate salt is not.) How can calcium carbonate take 12 to 24 'steps' to be available when even weak HCL dissolves it to Ca++ (the same material as the citrate or lactate in solution)? I can see 1 step here that might be hindered by no HCl and that is the ( 2HCl + CaCO3 = H2CO3 + CaCl2 = H2O + CO2 ^ + Ca++ + 2 Cl- ) in a water solution. Thus the calcium ion is in the same form as it would be as a citrate or lactate. No other steps. I am happy to have more current biochemists correct me here but the chemistry needs to be considered not just what we have heard from the lactate salesman. Colwell From: deadmed Oregon Chiropractors ; Christian Mathisen Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:58 AM Subject: Re: google me this.... 90% produce too little acid?? I sincerely find that unbelievable. If the stomach is capable of digesting food, it is capable of the chemical reaction in which Dr. Colwell so eruditely pointed out. Comparing 90% of our stomach acid to water PH is simply misguided. ph Medlin, DCSpine Tree Chiropractic1627 NE Alberta St.Portland, OR 97211 google me this.... ......recent google of "calcium carbonate absorption" lists nearly 2 million hits....and what they say in the first half-dozen are quite tilted to the 'tums is good' side....and seem overly impressed with their version of how wonderful carbonate is...That ain't what I learned in school.....any comments from our resident nutritional buffs?J. Pedersen DC New home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.1/963 - Release Date: 8/20/2007 5:44 PM No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.1/963 - Release Date: 8/20/2007 5:44 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.