Re: Strike Three: Thank you for playing.

[Guest guest]

Dr. :

I have been following this ongoing dialogue over the last week. I am sure it is quite difficult to keep track who has said what and when. Dr. Welker is responding back to around a dozen different people posing questions, some in response to his comments, and some to follow up inquiries. He has made an effort to reply point by point when asked.

From the discussion it is clear that he confused you with Colwell. I have made the same assumption from seeing the e-mail address at times in the past. Dr. Welker has responded to you twice, asking you to specify (or restate) your question. You have repeatedly replied that he should answer your question directly.

With this last exchange, Dr. Welker very politely asked you provide him with the questions that were not answered. You response was to terminate him from the list.

This ongoing discussion has been very pointed, and challenging. Dr. Welker has been asking simply for explanations of your position (and others), and he has been trying to give you his position 9and support). I thought this forum was for open discussion. This is what has been going on.

ly, I have found aspects of this ongoing drama tedious at times, but Dr. Welker has maintained a high level of professionalism despite true name calling, in violation of the group's rules.

You certainly can terminate an individual for violating the rules, but in the incident in question, you have been unresponsive to Dr. Welker's request to merely restate your question. You may disagree with him. You may dislike him or his opinion. But do not terminate someone for simply asking a question to be repeated.

Tom Freedland

In a message dated 11/8/2006 3:19:51 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, spbkchiro@... writes:

Brad: I will be removing you from this list-serve doc forinappropriate responses and general unprofessional behavior. You mayre-apply when I am no longer the moderator. I gave you a chance toshow me your reasoning...you had your chance(s) to be reasonable andresponsible and you failed.Farewell. Good luck.

[Guest guest]

Dr.

My last comment on this matter is that Dr. Welker asked you to provide him with the question he had not answered. His post would imply that he does not what your question was or what was not answered. If you e-mail is similar to mine, you sent message is stored. It is far easier for you to copy the question and re-send it to him and allow him to answer.

To paraphrase the dialogue:

Dr C: Dr. Welker you did answer my question.

Dr. W: Dr. I believe I did; what part did I not answer?

Dr. C: Please answer my question point by point.

Dr. W: Could you please give me your question again so I might answer it.

Dr. C: You did not answer my question, so you are unresponsive and are removed from the list.

Now your position is that you should not have to provide him with the question because he should have already had it. With all the banter back and forth, I don't know what you question was, and doubt I could fine it quickly.

Had he been derogatory or violated other rules, termination would be appropriate. But if he does not know what aspect of your post was not addressed or your other concerns are, and he asks you for the information, that is not unresponsive.

My last word. Good night.

Tom Freedland

In a message dated 11/8/2006 6:16:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, spbkchiro@... writes:

Tom: my responses to you are in parentheses.> Dr. :................. He has made an effort to reply point by point whenasked....(Tom: He did not make a good faith effort to respond point-by-point tomy posts.)Dr. Welker has responded to you twice, asking you to specify (or > restate) your question. ....(I twice directed him to my posts directly, I am not a typing machineI do not re-type posts that took me 20 mintues to write...I did notask him any questions other than to explain how my posts were"illogical", he failed twice to answer this.)You have repeatedly replied that he should answer your questiondirectly. (Yup that's right)> With this last exchange, Dr. Welker very politely asked you providehim with the questions that were not answered. You response was toterminate him from the list.( I only asked him one question, which he ignored but claimed to haveanswered....he very politely accused me of saying "derogatory" thingsto him and for me to "let go" of my "surface stuff", "as it wasgetting me no where".Cheers )

[Guest guest]

I guess it is fair to say that if we don't agree with one another

then we will get kicked off, especially if it is the moderator. This

group is meant only for those who agree with one another and want to

hold hands and skip through a field of daisy's. If our beliefs and

theory's are questioned and we don't have any answers then the

easiest thing to do is back down and get rid of those that question

us. I don't see how questioning a theory or thought is inappropriate

of unprofessional. Kicking someone off is.

Just my opinion.

Shad McLagan D.C.

> > > > > > > > So far I have been waiting for any logical response,

thus

> > far

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > not seen any.

> > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Brad Welker, D.C.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> >

_____________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > Brad: I still have not received a satisfactory response

to

> > my

> > > > > > original

> > > > > > > post (post 21817). If you recall, I felt that your

response

> > was

> > > > > > > muddled due to the fact that you had confused me with

> > > > Colwell

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > you were focused more on my/his intent than the actual

> > CONTENT.

> > > > I

> > > > > > feel

> > > > > > > that I gave you the " why " you are looking for. Please

re-

> > read

> > > > and

> > > > > > > re-respond.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Remember, the body responds/adapts to what

it " perceives "

> > is

> > > > going

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > in and around it in order to increase chance for

> > survival,what

> > > > the

> > > > > > > body-mind perceives does not necessarily to correlate

> > > > to " reality.

> > > > > > > I.e., Body will respond to the Tiger on the movie screen

> > > > > > > inappropriately, albeit " intelligently " (knowing that

the

> > > > genetic

> > > > > > code

> > > > > > > was selected out 40K-100k years ago). Our body has no

> > genetic

> > > > > > defense

> > > > > > > for Tigers on movie screens and it has no genetic

defense

> > > > against

> > > > > > our

> > > > > > > sedentary, toxin-filled, mass-media-filled environment

we

> > are

> > > > bathed

> > > > > > > in. So it reacts the best it can. Subluxation/fixation

(and

> > > > glbal

> > > > > > > posture changes for that matter) for instance can very

> > > > logically be

> > > > > > > seen as an " intelligent " (given the context of our

genes

> > being

> > > > those

> > > > > > > of hunter/gatherers, a people who were constantly

> > moving/walking

> > > > > > > massively throughout the day),

> > > > albeit " inappropriate " / " incorrect "

> > > > > > > attempt to change the environment in and around those

> > connective

> > > > > > > tissue/articular cells to one that it more favorable

for

> > > > survival.

> > > > > > If

> > > > > > > we know that movement is essential for health

(mainstream

> > > > concept:

> > > > > > > movement is necessary for life, so is food and water

etc.)

> > and

> > > > we

> > > > > > know

> > > > > > > that lack of movement in long term is not only

detremental

> > > > locally

> > > > > > but

> > > > > > > actually neurologically-toxic (facilitates nociception

with

> > > > global

> > > > > > > deleterious effects on body)... then, we must practice

the

> > art

> > > > of

> > > > > > > differentiating " properly " immobilized " and " properly-

> > deformed

> > > > > > global

> > > > > > > postures " structures/articulations/tissues (acute/sub-

acute

> > > > injury

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > subsequent antalgia for instance) from " improperly

> > immobilized "

> > > > and

> > > > > > > " improperly deformed " global postures. Once we have

done

> > this

> > > > we go

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > work!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Lastly, I know folks are inflammed at you. And a few

were

> > > > > > > unprofessional toward you. I am not upset with you, I

> > respect

> > > > the

> > > > > > core

> > > > > > > of what you are trying to post, you are smart and you

are a

> > > > thinker,

> > > > > > > but you are basically a newcomer to this list and since

> > this

> > > > was

> > > > > > your

> > > > > > > first contribution of any substance you are

> > > > bascially " perceived "

> > > > > > as a

> > > > > > > troll http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_trolls and

it

> > is

> > > > now up

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > you to show us that you are not. So, do your best to

keep

> > on

> > > > point,

> > > > > > > don't bait, show us " your hand " and you will get the

> > respect

> > > > you are

> > > > > > > looking for.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > list moderator

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Shad:

I am sorry that you feel that way. I respect your opinion and will

tell you that there are many docs on this list-serve who can barely

agree on anything. Hang around, get some experience with this group,

be civil and you will find out for yourself what a great forum this

can be for enlightening all of us who bear the privilege and

responsibilty that comes with the licence to practice chiropractic.

I, for one look forward to many future discussions around the topic of

subluxation, fixation, etc. as it is what I do for a living and there

is no topic that I am more genuinely interested in.

> > > > > > > > > So far I have been waiting for any logical response,

> thus

> > > far

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > not seen any.

> > > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Brad Welker, D.C.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

> _____________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > > Brad: I still have not received a satisfactory response

> to

> > > my

> > > > > > > original

> > > > > > > > post (post 21817). If you recall, I felt that your

> response

> > > was

> > > > > > > > muddled due to the fact that you had confused me with

>

> > > > > Colwell

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > you were focused more on my/his intent than the actual

> > > CONTENT.

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > feel

> > > > > > > > that I gave you the " why " you are looking for. Please

> re-

> > > read

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > re-respond.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Remember, the body responds/adapts to what

> it " perceives "

> > > is

> > > > > going

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > in and around it in order to increase chance for

> > > survival,what

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > body-mind perceives does not necessarily to correlate

> > > > > to " reality.

> > > > > > > > I.e., Body will respond to the Tiger on the movie screen

> > > > > > > > inappropriately, albeit " intelligently " (knowing that

> the

> > > > > genetic

> > > > > > > code

> > > > > > > > was selected out 40K-100k years ago). Our body has no

> > > genetic

> > > > > > > defense

> > > > > > > > for Tigers on movie screens and it has no genetic

> defense

> > > > > against

> > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > sedentary, toxin-filled, mass-media-filled environment

> we

> > > are

> > > > > bathed

> > > > > > > > in. So it reacts the best it can. Subluxation/fixation

> (and

> > > > > glbal

> > > > > > > > posture changes for that matter) for instance can very

> > > > > logically be

> > > > > > > > seen as an " intelligent " (given the context of our

> genes

> > > being

> > > > > those

> > > > > > > > of hunter/gatherers, a people who were constantly

> > > moving/walking

> > > > > > > > massively throughout the day),

> > > > > albeit " inappropriate " / " incorrect "

> > > > > > > > attempt to change the environment in and around those

> > > connective

> > > > > > > > tissue/articular cells to one that it more favorable

> for

> > > > > survival.

> > > > > > > If

> > > > > > > > we know that movement is essential for health

> (mainstream

> > > > > concept:

> > > > > > > > movement is necessary for life, so is food and water

> etc.)

> > > and

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > that lack of movement in long term is not only

> detremental

> > > > > locally

> > > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > actually neurologically-toxic (facilitates nociception

> with

> > > > > global

> > > > > > > > deleterious effects on body)... then, we must practice

> the

> > > art

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > differentiating " properly " immobilized " and " properly-

> > > deformed

> > > > > > > global

> > > > > > > > postures " structures/articulations/tissues (acute/sub-

> acute

> > > > > injury

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > subsequent antalgia for instance) from " improperly

> > > immobilized "

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > " improperly deformed " global postures. Once we have

> done

> > > this

> > > > > we go

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > work!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lastly, I know folks are inflammed at you. And a few

> were

> > > > > > > > unprofessional toward you. I am not upset with you, I

> > > respect

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > core

> > > > > > > > of what you are trying to post, you are smart and you

> are a

> > > > > thinker,

> > > > > > > > but you are basically a newcomer to this list and since

> > > this

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > first contribution of any substance you are

> > > > > bascially " perceived "

> > > > > > > as a

> > > > > > > > troll http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_trolls and

> it

> > > is

> > > > > now up

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > you to show us that you are not. So, do your best to

> keep

> > > on

> > > > > point,

> > > > > > > > don't bait, show us " your hand " and you will get the

> > > respect

> > > > > you are

> > > > > > > > looking for.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > list moderator

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. McLagan:

I see that you, Brad Welker and Baker were listed at the bottom of

one of Dr. Welker's posts. Do you all practice together there in Bend?

And if so, what techniques do each of you primarily use in treating

your patients? And, please, don't respond with: "Whatever works."

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

Salem, Oregon

Shad McLagan wrote:

I guess it is fair to say that if we don't agree with one another

then we will get kicked off, especially if it is the moderator. This

group is meant only for those who agree with one another and want to

hold hands and skip through a field of daisy's. If our beliefs and

theory's are questioned and we don't have any answers then the

easiest thing to do is back down and get rid of those that question

us. I don't see how questioning a theory or thought is inappropriate

of unprofessional. Kicking someone off is.

Just my opinion.

Shad McLagan D.C.

> > > > > > > > So far I have been waiting for

any logical response,

thus

> > far

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > not seen any.

> > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Brad Welker, D.C.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> >

__________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > Brad: I still have not received a

satisfactory response

to

> > my

> > > > > > original

> > > > > > > post (post 21817). If you recall, I

felt that your

response

> > was

> > > > > > > muddled due to the fact that you had

confused me with

> > > > Colwell

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > you were focused more on my/his

intent than the actual

> > CONTENT.

> > > > I

> > > > > > feel

> > > > > > > that I gave you the "why" you are

looking for. Please

re-

> > read

> > > > and

> > > > > > > re-respond.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Remember, the body responds/adapts

to what

it "perceives"

> > is

> > > > going

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > in and around it in order to

increase chance for

> > survival,what

> > > > the

> > > > > > > body-mind perceives does not

necessarily to correlate

> > > > to "reality.

> > > > > > > I.e., Body will respond to the Tiger

on the movie screen

> > > > > > > inappropriately, albeit

"intelligently" (knowing that

the

> > > > genetic

> > > > > > code

> > > > > > > was selected out 40K-100k years

ago). Our body has no

> > genetic

> > > > > > defense

> > > > > > > for Tigers on movie screens and it

has no genetic

defense

> > > > against

> > > > > > our

> > > > > > > sedentary, toxin-filled,

mass-media-filled environment

we

> > are

> > > > bathed

> > > > > > > in. So it reacts the best it can.

Subluxation/fixation

(and

> > > > glbal

> > > > > > > posture changes for that matter) for

instance can very

> > > > logically be

> > > > > > > seen as an "intelligent" (given the

context of our

genes

> > being

> > > > those

> > > > > > > of hunter/gatherers, a people who

were constantly

> > moving/walking

> > > > > > > massively throughout the day),

> > > > albeit "inappropriate"/ "incorrect"

> > > > > > > attempt to change the environment in

and around those

> > connective

> > > > > > > tissue/articular cells to one that

it more favorable

for

> > > > survival.

> > > > > > If

> > > > > > > we know that movement is essential

for health

(mainstream

> > > > concept:

> > > > > > > movement is necessary for life, so

is food and water

etc.)

> > and

> > > > we

> > > > > > know

> > > > > > > that lack of movement in long term

is not only

detremental

> > > > locally

> > > > > > but

> > > > > > > actually neurologically-toxic

(facilitates nociception

with

> > > > global

> > > > > > > deleterious effects on body)...

then, we must practice

the

> > art

> > > > of

> > > > > > > differentiating "properly"

immobilized" and "properly-

> > deformed

> > > > > > global

> > > > > > > postures" structures/articulations/tissues

(acute/sub-

acute

> > > > injury

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > subsequent antalgia for instance)

from "improperly

> > immobilized"

> > > > and

> > > > > > > "improperly deformed" global

postures. Once we have

done

> > this

> > > > we go

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > work!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Lastly, I know folks are inflammed

at you. And a few

were

> > > > > > > unprofessional toward you. I am not

upset with you, I

> > respect

> > > > the

> > > > > > core

> > > > > > > of what you are trying to post, you

are smart and you

are a

> > > > thinker,

> > > > > > > but you are basically a newcomer to

this list and since

> > this

> > > > was

> > > > > > your

> > > > > > > first contribution of any substance

you are

> > > > bascially "perceived"

> > > > > > as a

> > > > > > > troll http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_trolls

and

it

> > is

> > > > now up

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > you to show us that you are not. So,

do your best to

keep

> > on

> > > > point,

> > > > > > > don't bait, show us "your hand" and

you will get the

> > respect

> > > > you are

> > > > > > > looking for.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > list moderator

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. McGill

Dr. Baker works on his own, just a colleague and a friend. Yes, I do

work with Dr. Welker. If you wanted to know his treating technique,

which is the same as what I use, you should have just asked him. At

this point the discussion has gone nowhere due to the fact everyone

is getting so defensive and not willing to respond with an " open

cup " . I could tell you how I (we) treat but someone, I am sure, will

have a problem with it, it will start an endless arguement and then I

too will be removed. You could always do as Dr. Layman did;

call the office anonymously (even though I did know who he was),

pretend to be a new paitent, and ask over the phone what sort of

technique we use. It is not necessarily about what techneque is used,

but rather how it is used and for what purpose.

Shad McLagan D.C.

> > > > > > > > > > So far I have been waiting for any logical

response,

> > thus

> > > > far

> > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > not seen any.

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Brad Welker, D.C.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > __________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > > > Brad: I still have not received a satisfactory

response

> > to

> > > > my

> > > > > > > > original

> > > > > > > > > post (post 21817). If you recall, I felt that your

> > response

> > > > was

> > > > > > > > > muddled due to the fact that you had confused me

with

> >

> > > > > > Colwell

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > you were focused more on my/his intent than the

actual

> > > > CONTENT.

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > feel

> > > > > > > > > that I gave you the " why " you are looking for.

Please

> > re-

> > > > read

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > re-respond.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Remember, the body responds/adapts to what

> > it " perceives "

> > > > is

> > > > > > going

> > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > in and around it in order to increase chance for

> > > > survival,what

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > body-mind perceives does not necessarily to

correlate

> > > > > > to " reality.

> > > > > > > > > I.e., Body will respond to the Tiger on the movie

screen

> > > > > > > > > inappropriately, albeit " intelligently " (knowing

that

> > the

> > > > > > genetic

> > > > > > > > code

> > > > > > > > > was selected out 40K-100k years ago). Our body has

no

> > > > genetic

> > > > > > > > defense

> > > > > > > > > for Tigers on movie screens and it has no genetic

> > defense

> > > > > > against

> > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > sedentary, toxin-filled, mass-media-filled

environment

> > we

> > > > are

> > > > > > bathed

> > > > > > > > > in. So it reacts the best it can.

Subluxation/fixation

> > (and

> > > > > > glbal

> > > > > > > > > posture changes for that matter) for instance can

very

> > > > > > logically be

> > > > > > > > > seen as an " intelligent " (given the context of our

> > genes

> > > > being

> > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > > of hunter/gatherers, a people who were constantly

> > > > moving/walking

> > > > > > > > > massively throughout the day),

> > > > > > albeit " inappropriate " / " incorrect "

> > > > > > > > > attempt to change the environment in and around

those

> > > > connective

> > > > > > > > > tissue/articular cells to one that it more favorable

> > for

> > > > > > survival.

> > > > > > > > If

> > > > > > > > > we know that movement is essential for health

> > (mainstream

> > > > > > concept:

> > > > > > > > > movement is necessary for life, so is food and water

> > etc.)

> > > > and

> > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > that lack of movement in long term is not only

> > detremental

> > > > > > locally

> > > > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > actually neurologically-toxic (facilitates

nociception

> > with

> > > > > > global

> > > > > > > > > deleterious effects on body)... then, we must

practice

> > the

> > > > art

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > differentiating " properly " immobilized "

and " properly-

> > > > deformed

> > > > > > > > global

> > > > > > > > > postures " structures/articulations/tissues

(acute/sub-

> > acute

> > > > > > injury

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > subsequent antalgia for instance) from " improperly

> > > > immobilized "

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > " improperly deformed " global postures. Once we have

> > done

> > > > this

> > > > > > we go

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > work!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Lastly, I know folks are inflammed at you. And a few

> > were

> > > > > > > > > unprofessional toward you. I am not upset with you,

I

> > > > respect

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > core

> > > > > > > > > of what you are trying to post, you are smart and

you

> > are a

> > > > > > thinker,

> > > > > > > > > but you are basically a newcomer to this list and

since

> > > > this

> > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > first contribution of any substance you are

> > > > > > bascially " perceived "

> > > > > > > > as a

> > > > > > > > > troll http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_trolls

> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_trolls> and

> > it

> > > > is

> > > > > > now up

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > you to show us that you are not. So, do your best to

> > keep

> > > > on

> > > > > > point,

> > > > > > > > > don't bait, show us " your hand " and you will get the

> > > > respect

> > > > > > you are

> > > > > > > > > looking for.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > list moderator

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I respect you for speeking out. Even if you don't agree with the

discussion you are willing to listen, and can see both sides of the

arguement as others are not.

Shad McLagan D.C.

>

>

> Dr. :

>

> I have been following this ongoing dialogue over the last week. I

am sure

> it is quite difficult to keep track who has said what and when.

Dr. Welker is

> responding back to around a dozen different people posing

questions, some in

> response to his comments, and some to follow up inquiries. He has

made an

> effort to reply point by point when asked.

>

> From the discussion it is clear that he confused you with

Colwell. I

> have made the same assumption from seeing the e-mail address at

times in the

> past. Dr. Welker has responded to you twice, asking you to

specify (or

> restate) your question. You have repeatedly replied that he

should answer your

> question directly.

>

> With this last exchange, Dr. Welker very politely asked you provide

him with

> the questions that were not answered. You response was to

terminate him

> from the list.

>

> This ongoing discussion has been very pointed, and challenging.

Dr. Welker

> has been asking simply for explanations of your position (and

others), and he

> has been trying to give you his position 9and support). I thought

this

> forum was for open discussion. This is what has been going on.

>

> ly, I have found aspects of this ongoing drama tedious at

times, but

> Dr. Welker has maintained a high level of professionalism despite

true name

> calling, in violation of the group's rules.

>

> You certainly can terminate an individual for violating the rules,

but in

> the incident in question, you have been unresponsive to Dr.

Welker's request to

> merely restate your question. You may disagree with him. You may

dislike

> him or his opinion. But do not terminate someone for simply

asking a question

> to be repeated.

>

> Tom Freedland

>

>

> In a message dated 11/8/2006 3:19:51 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> spbkchiro@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> Brad: I will be removing you from this list-serve doc for

> inappropriate responses and general unprofessional behavior. You

may

> re-apply when I am no longer the moderator. I gave you a chance to

> show me your reasoning...show me your reasoning...<WBR>you had y

> responsible and you failed.

>

> Farewell. Good luck.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

How about for being a complete jerk? I mean he began that way and it just escalated. He wants to argue not discuss. He cares not about any clarification on the subject, but wants everyone to agree with his idea. He has also been absolutely patronizing and that professionalism is just a veil Tom (see my post misery loves company)

I agree with his removal! It has nothing to do with all of us "running hand in hand through the fields of daisies" . Many of us on this listserve disagree. This man is instigating and it's disruptive.

Dr. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1627 NE Alberta St. #6Portland, OR 97211Ph: 503-788-6800c: 503-889-6204

Re: Strike Three: Thank you for playing.

Dr. :

I have been following this ongoing dialogue over the last week. I am sure it is quite difficult to keep track who has said what and when. Dr. Welker is responding back to around a dozen different people posing questions, some in response to his comments, and some to follow up inquiries. He has made an effort to reply point by point when asked.

From the discussion it is clear that he confused you with Colwell. I have made the same assumption from seeing the e-mail address at times in the past. Dr. Welker has responded to you twice, asking you to specify (or restate) your question. You have repeatedly replied that he should answer your question directly.

With this last exchange, Dr. Welker very politely asked you provide him with the questions that were not answered. You response was to terminate him from the list.

This ongoing discussion has been very pointed, and challenging. Dr. Welker has been asking simply for explanations of your position (and others), and he has been trying to give you his position 9and support). I thought this forum was for open discussion. This is what has been going on.

ly, I have found aspects of this ongoing drama tedious at times, but Dr. Welker has maintained a high level of professionalism despite true name calling, in violation of the group's rules.

You certainly can terminate an individual for violating the rules, but in the incident in question, you have been unresponsive to Dr. Welker's request to merely restate your question. You may disagree with him. You may dislike him or his opinion. But do not terminate someone for simply asking a question to be repeated.

Tom Freedland

In a message dated 11/8/2006 3:19:51 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, spbkchiroaol writes:

Brad: I will be removing you from this list-serve doc forinappropriate responses and general unprofessional behavior. You mayre-apply when I am no longer the moderator. I gave you a chance toshow me your reasoning...you had your chance(s) to be reasonable andresponsible and you failed.Farewell. Good luck.

[Guest guest]

Dr. Shad:

This is the problem. A post is made

challenging long-held beliefs and practice patterns on this list. No

specific alternative is identified, only degrading comments about current

philosophy and practice. The original post encourages responses, some of

them pointed. Still, no specific protocol is outlined. Responses

back from the original poster ask for specific questions to respond to, but

still no outlining of protocol. Now, the moderator has had enough.

Maybe he pulled the trigger too soon, but it was tiresome. Now you pop up

and you’re asked about your specific protocol or techniques. You do

not comply, which of course is your right, but festers the wound. This is

like the wizard behind curtain. Maybe your technique or approach to musculoskeletal

complaints is awesome, but we won’t know because you won’t

share. This has been a strange couple of days.

Seitz, DC

Tuality Physicians

730-D SE Oak Street

Hillsboro,

OR 97123

(503)640-3724

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Shad McLagan

Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006

4:35 PM

Subject: Re: Strike

Three: Thank you for playing.

Dr. McGill

Dr. Baker works on his own, just a colleague and a friend. Yes, I do

work with Dr. Welker. If you wanted to know his treating technique,

which is the same as what I use, you should have just asked him. At

this point the discussion has gone nowhere due to the fact everyone

is getting so defensive and not willing to respond with an " open

cup " . I could tell you how I (we) treat but someone, I am sure, will

have a problem with it, it will start an endless arguement and then I

too will be removed. You could always do as Dr. Layman did;

call the office anonymously (even though I did know who he was),

pretend to be a new paitent, and ask over the phone what sort of

technique we use. It is not necessarily about what techneque is used,

but rather how it is used and for what purpose.

Shad McLagan D.C.

> > > > > > > > > > So far I have been waiting

for any logical

response,

> > thus

> > > > far

> > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > not seen any.

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Brad Welker, D.C.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > __________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > > > Brad: I still have not received a

satisfactory

response

> > to

> > > > my

> > > > > > > > original

> > > > > > > > > post (post 21817). If you recall,

I felt that your

> > response

> > > > was

> > > > > > > > > muddled due to the fact that you

had confused me

with

> >

> > > > > > Colwell

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > you were focused more on my/his

intent than the

actual

> > > > CONTENT.

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > feel

> > > > > > > > > that I gave you the

" why " you are looking for.

Please

> > re-

> > > > read

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > re-respond.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Remember, the body responds/adapts

to what

> > it " perceives "

> > > > is

> > > > > > going

> > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > in and around it in order to

increase chance for

> > > > survival,what

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > body-mind perceives does not

necessarily to

correlate

> > > > > > to " reality.

> > > > > > > > > I.e., Body will respond to the

Tiger on the movie

screen

> > > > > > > > > inappropriately, albeit

" intelligently " (knowing

that

> > the

> > > > > > genetic

> > > > > > > > code

> > > > > > > > > was selected out 40K-100k years

ago). Our body has

no

> > > > genetic

> > > > > > > > defense

> > > > > > > > > for Tigers on movie screens and it

has no genetic

> > defense

> > > > > > against

> > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > sedentary, toxin-filled,

mass-media-filled

environment

> > we

> > > > are

> > > > > > bathed

> > > > > > > > > in. So it reacts the best it can.

Subluxation/fixation

> > (and

> > > > > > glbal

> > > > > > > > > posture changes for that matter)

for instance can

very

> > > > > > logically be

> > > > > > > > > seen as an " intelligent "

(given the context of our

> > genes

> > > > being

> > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > > of hunter/gatherers, a people who

were constantly

> > > > moving/walking

> > > > > > > > > massively throughout the day),

> > > > > > albeit " inappropriate " /

" incorrect "

> > > > > > > > > attempt to change the environment

in and around

those

> > > > connective

> > > > > > > > > tissue/articular cells to one that

it more favorable

> > for

> > > > > > survival.

> > > > > > > > If

> > > > > > > > > we know that movement is essential

for health

> > (mainstream

> > > > > > concept:

> > > > > > > > > movement is necessary for life, so

is food and water

> > etc.)

> > > > and

> > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > that lack of movement in long term

is not only

> > detremental

> > > > > > locally

> > > > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > actually neurologically-toxic

(facilitates

nociception

> > with

> > > > > > global

> > > > > > > > > deleterious effects on body)...

then, we must

practice

> > the

> > > > art

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > differentiating

" properly " immobilized "

and " properly-

> > > > deformed

> > > > > > > > global

> > > > > > > > > postures " structures/articulations/tissues

(acute/sub-

> > acute

> > > > > > injury

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > subsequent antalgia for instance)

from " improperly

> > > > immobilized "

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > " improperly deformed "

global postures. Once we have

> > done

> > > > this

> > > > > > we go

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > work!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Lastly, I know folks are inflammed

at you. And a few

> > were

> > > > > > > > > unprofessional toward you. I am

not upset with you,

I

> > > > respect

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > core

> > > > > > > > > of what you are trying to post,

you are smart and

you

> > are a

> > > > > > thinker,

> > > > > > > > > but you are basically a newcomer

to this list and

since

> > > > this

> > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > first contribution of any substance

you are

> > > > > > bascially " perceived "

> > > > > > > > as a

> > > > > > > > > troll http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_trolls

> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_trolls>

and

> > it

> > > > is

> > > > > > now up

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > you to show us that you are not.

So, do your best to

> > keep

> > > > on

> > > > > > point,

> > > > > > > > > don't bait, show us " your

hand " and you will get the

> > > > respect

> > > > > > you are

> > > > > > > > > looking for.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > list moderator

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

(moderator),

I disagree with removing Dr. Welker from the elist.

Boorishness is not grounds for removal. His posts were meant to cause a reaction and they did so. In a couple of days, with a few interactions, most of the docs who engaged got frustrated and decided to move on or stomp off.

You can see this 24/7 of the blogosphere. People get feisty, others egg them on; sometimes salient points are made. Typically, serious people move on leaving the real arguers to shout at one another like drunks at last call.

Look at the poor guy’s posts since Monday, I count 54 since Monday.

Who else has that kind of time?

If you take him off the elist, he will be bereft of a pastime he obviously enjoys.

I suggest you keep him on the list.

( E. Abrahamson, D.C.)

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

From: spbkchiro97132 <spbkchiro@...>

Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 23:13:53 -0000

< >

Subject: Strike Three: Thank you for playing.

Brad: I will be removing you from this list-serve doc for

inappropriate responses and general unprofessional behavior. You may

re-apply when I am no longer the moderator. I gave you a chance to

show me your reasoning...you had your chance(s) to be reasonable and

responsible and you failed.

Farewell. Good luck.

> > > > > > > So far I have been waiting for any logical response, thus

> far

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > not seen any.

> > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Brad Welker, D.C.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

> __________________________________________________________

> > > > > > Brad: I still have not received a satisfactory response to

> my

> > > > > original

> > > > > > post (post 21817). If you recall, I felt that your response

> was

> > > > > > muddled due to the fact that you had confused me with

> > > Colwell

> > > > > and

> > > > > > you were focused more on my/his intent than the actual

> CONTENT.

> > > I

> > > > > feel

> > > > > > that I gave you the " why " you are looking for. Please re-

> read

> > > and

> > > > > > re-respond.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Remember, the body responds/adapts to what it " perceives "

> is

> > > going

> > > > > on

> > > > > > in and around it in order to increase chance for

> survival,what

> > > the

> > > > > > body-mind perceives does not necessarily to correlate

> > > to " reality.

> > > > > > I.e., Body will respond to the Tiger on the movie screen

> > > > > > inappropriately, albeit " intelligently " (knowing that the

> > > genetic

> > > > > code

> > > > > > was selected out 40K-100k years ago). Our body has no

> genetic

> > > > > defense

> > > > > > for Tigers on movie screens and it has no genetic defense

> > > against

> > > > > our

> > > > > > sedentary, toxin-filled, mass-media-filled environment we

> are

> > > bathed

> > > > > > in. So it reacts the best it can. Subluxation/fixation (and

> > > glbal

> > > > > > posture changes for that matter) for instance can very

> > > logically be

> > > > > > seen as an " intelligent " (given the context of our genes

> being

> > > those

> > > > > > of hunter/gatherers, a people who were constantly

> moving/walking

> > > > > > massively throughout the day),

> > > albeit " inappropriate " / " incorrect "

> > > > > > attempt to change the environment in and around those

> connective

> > > > > > tissue/articular cells to one that it more favorable for

> > > survival.

> > > > > If

> > > > > > we know that movement is essential for health (mainstream

> > > concept:

> > > > > > movement is necessary for life, so is food and water etc.)

> and

> > > we

> > > > > know

> > > > > > that lack of movement in long term is not only detremental

> > > locally

> > > > > but

> > > > > > actually neurologically-toxic (facilitates nociception with

> > > global

> > > > > > deleterious effects on body)... then, we must practice the

> art

> > > of

> > > > > > differentiating " properly " immobilized " and " properly-

> deformed

> > > > > global

> > > > > > postures " structures/articulations/tissues (acute/sub-acute

> > > injury

> > > > > and

> > > > > > subsequent antalgia for instance) from " improperly

> immobilized "

> > > and

> > > > > > " improperly deformed " global postures. Once we have done

> this

> > > we go

> > > > > to

> > > > > > work!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lastly, I know folks are inflammed at you. And a few were

> > > > > > unprofessional toward you. I am not upset with you, I

> respect

> > > the

> > > > > core

> > > > > > of what you are trying to post, you are smart and you are a

> > > thinker,

> > > > > > but you are basically a newcomer to this list and since

> this

> > > was

> > > > > your

> > > > > > first contribution of any substance you are

> > > bascially " perceived "

> > > > > as a

> > > > > > troll http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_trolls and it

> is

> > > now up

> > > > > to

> > > > > > you to show us that you are not. So, do your best to keep

> on

> > > point,

> > > > > > don't bait, show us " your hand " and you will get the

> respect

> > > you are

> > > > > > looking for.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > list moderator

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tom: my responses to you are in parentheses.

> Dr. :....

.............. He has made an effort to reply point by point when

asked....

(Tom: He did not make a good faith effort to respond point-by-point to

my posts.)

Dr. Welker has responded to you twice, asking you to specify (or

> restate) your question. ....

(I twice directed him to my posts directly, I am not a typing machine

I do not re-type posts that took me 20 mintues to write...I did not

ask him any questions other than to explain how my posts were

" illogical " , he failed twice to answer this.)

You have repeatedly replied that he should answer your question

directly.

(Yup that's right)

> With this last exchange, Dr. Welker very politely asked you provide

him with the questions that were not answered. You response was to

terminate him from the list.

( I only asked him one question, which he ignored but claimed to have

answered....he very politely accused me of saying " derogatory " things

to him and for me to " let go " of my " surface stuff " , " as it was

getting me no where " .

Cheers )

[Guest guest]

Thank you . It is about time. I have been unable to enjoy the sharing of information since Brad came on. Ann Goldeen

Strike Three: Thank you for playing.

Brad: I will be removing you from this list-serve doc forinappropriate responses and general unprofessional behavior. You mayre-apply when I am no longer the moderator. I gave you a chance toshow me your reasoning...you had your chance(s) to be reasonable andresponsible and you failed.Farewell. Good luck. > > > > > > > So far I have been waiting for any logical response, thus > far > > > > > have > > > > > > > not seen any. > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brad Welker, D.C.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________> > > > > > Brad: I still have not received a satisfactory response to > my > > > > > original> > > > > > post (post 21817). If you recall, I felt that your response > was> > > > > > muddled due to the fact that you had confused me with > > > Colwell > > > > > and> > > > > > you were focused more on my/his intent than the actual > CONTENT. > > > I > > > > > feel> > > > > > that I gave you the "why" you are looking for. Please re-> read > > > and> > > > > > re-respond.> > > > > > > > > > > > Remember, the body responds/adapts to what it "perceives" > is > > > going > > > > > on> > > > > > in and around it in order to increase chance for > survival,what > > > the> > > > > > body-mind perceives does not necessarily to correlate > > > to "reality.> > > > > > I.e., Body will respond to the Tiger on the movie screen> > > > > > inappropriately, albeit "intelligently" (knowing that the > > > genetic > > > > > code> > > > > > was selected out 40K-100k years ago). Our body has no > genetic > > > > > defense> > > > > > for Tigers on movie screens and it has no genetic defense > > > against > > > > > our> > > > > > sedentary, toxin-filled, mass-media-filled environment we > are > > > bathed> > > > > > in. So it reacts the best it can. Subluxation/fixation (and > > > glbal> > > > > > posture changes for that matter) for instance can very > > > logically be> > > > > > seen as an "intelligent" (given the context of our genes > being > > > those> > > > > > of hunter/gatherers, a people who were constantly > moving/walking> > > > > > massively throughout the day), > > > albeit "inappropriate"/ "incorrect"> > > > > > attempt to change the environment in and around those > connective> > > > > > tissue/articular cells to one that it more favorable for > > > survival. > > > > > If> > > > > > we know that movement is essential for health (mainstream > > > concept:> > > > > > movement is necessary for life, so is food and water etc.) > and > > > we > > > > > know> > > > > > that lack of movement in long term is not only detremental > > > locally > > > > > but> > > > > > actually neurologically-toxic (facilitates nociception with > > > global> > > > > > deleterious effects on body)... then, we must practice the > art > > > of> > > > > > differentiating "properly" immobilized" and "properly-> deformed > > > > > global> > > > > > postures" structures/articulations/tissues (acute/sub-acute > > > injury > > > > > and> > > > > > subsequent antalgia for instance) from "improperly > immobilized" > > > and> > > > > > "improperly deformed" global postures. Once we have done > this > > > we go > > > > > to> > > > > > work!> > > > > > > > > > > > Lastly, I know folks are inflammed at you. And a few were> > > > > > unprofessional toward you. I am not upset with you, I > respect > > > the > > > > > core> > > > > > of what you are trying to post, you are smart and you are a > > > thinker,> > > > > > but you are basically a newcomer to this list and since > this > > > was > > > > > your> > > > > > first contribution of any substance you are > > > bascially "perceived" > > > > > as a> > > > > > troll http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_trolls and it > is > > > now up > > > > > to> > > > > > you to show us that you are not. So, do your best to keep > on > > > point,> > > > > > don't bait, show us "your hand" and you will get the > respect > > > you are> > > > > > looking for.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > list moderator> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I heartily support your decision to remove Brad from the listserve. I do not

believe this doc is interested in learning from his colleagues or seriously

contributing to the profession of chiropractic.

I majored in philosophy at Portland State and I know a true truth seeker from a

hell raiser. I believe that Dr. Brad has an agenda and it isn't to better the

profession of chiropractic in Oregon.

In short- you did the right thing. Now we can hopefully return to the

matter of working together to promote this magnificent profession of

chiropractic in Oregon.

Schneider

PDX

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------

From: " spbkchiro97132 " <spbkchiro@...>

Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 23:13:53 -0000

>Brad: I will be removing you from this list-serve doc for

>inappropriate responses and general unprofessional behavior. You may

>re-apply when I am no longer the moderator. I gave you a chance to

>show me your reasoning...you had your chance(s) to be reasonable and

>responsible and you failed.

>

>Farewell. Good luck.

>

>

>

>

>> > > > > > > So far I have been waiting for any logical response, thus

>> far

>> > > > > have

>> > > > > > > not seen any.

>> > > > > > > Thanks,

>> > > > > >

>> > > > > > > Brad Welker, D.C.

>> > > > > >

>> > > > >

>> > >

>> _____________________________________________________________________

>> > > > > > Brad: I still have not received a satisfactory response to

>> my

>> > > > > original

>> > > > > > post (post 21817). If you recall, I felt that your response

>> was

>> > > > > > muddled due to the fact that you had confused me with

>> > > Colwell

>> > > > > and

>> > > > > > you were focused more on my/his intent than the actual

>> CONTENT.

>> > > I

>> > > > > feel

>> > > > > > that I gave you the " why " you are looking for. Please re-

>> read

>> > > and

>> > > > > > re-respond.

>> > > > > >

>> > > > > > Remember, the body responds/adapts to what it " perceives "

>> is

>> > > going

>> > > > > on

>> > > > > > in and around it in order to increase chance for

>> survival,what

>> > > the

>> > > > > > body-mind perceives does not necessarily to correlate

>> > > to " reality.

>> > > > > > I.e., Body will respond to the Tiger on the movie screen

>> > > > > > inappropriately, albeit " intelligently " (knowing that the

>> > > genetic

>> > > > > code

>> > > > > > was selected out 40K-100k years ago). Our body has no

>> genetic

>> > > > > defense

>> > > > > > for Tigers on movie screens and it has no genetic defense

>> > > against

>> > > > > our

>> > > > > > sedentary, toxin-filled, mass-media-filled environment we

>> are

>> > > bathed

>> > > > > > in. So it reacts the best it can. Subluxation/fixation (and

>> > > glbal

>> > > > > > posture changes for that matter) for instance can very

>> > > logically be

>> > > > > > seen as an " intelligent " (given the context of our genes

>> being

>> > > those

>> > > > > > of hunter/gatherers, a people who were constantly

>> moving/walking

>> > > > > > massively throughout the day),

>> > > albeit " inappropriate " / " incorrect "

>> > > > > > attempt to change the environment in and around those

>> connective

>> > > > > > tissue/articular cells to one that it more favorable for

>> > > survival.

>> > > > > If

>> > > > > > we know that movement is essential for health (mainstream

>> > > concept:

>> > > > > > movement is necessary for life, so is food and water etc.)

>> and

>> > > we

>> > > > > know

>> > > > > > that lack of movement in long term is not only detremental

>> > > locally

>> > > > > but

>> > > > > > actually neurologically-toxic (facilitates nociception with

>> > > global

>> > > > > > deleterious effects on body)... then, we must practice the

>> art

>> > > of

>> > > > > > differentiating " properly " immobilized " and " properly-

>> deformed

>> > > > > global

>> > > > > > postures " structures/articulations/tissues (acute/sub-acute

>> > > injury

>> > > > > and

>> > > > > > subsequent antalgia for instance) from " improperly

>> immobilized "

>> > > and

>> > > > > > " improperly deformed " global postures. Once we have done

>> this

>> > > we go

>> > > > > to

>> > > > > > work!

>> > > > > >

>> > > > > > Lastly, I know folks are inflammed at you. And a few were

>> > > > > > unprofessional toward you. I am not upset with you, I

>> respect

>> > > the

>> > > > > core

>> > > > > > of what you are trying to post, you are smart and you are a

>> > > thinker,

>> > > > > > but you are basically a newcomer to this list and since

>> this

>> > > was

>> > > > > your

>> > > > > > first contribution of any substance you are

>> > > bascially " perceived "

>> > > > > as a

>> > > > > > troll http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_trolls and it

>> is

>> > > now up

>> > > > > to

>> > > > > > you to show us that you are not. So, do your best to keep

>> on

>> > > point,

>> > > > > > don't bait, show us " your hand " and you will get the

>> respect

>> > > you are

>> > > > > > looking for.

>> > > > > >

>> > > > > >

>> > > > > >

>> > > > > > list moderator

>> > > > > >

>> > > > >

>> > > >

>> > >

>> >

>>

>

>

>

>

>