Re: OT :

[Guest guest]

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/2006/05/govt_source_tel.html

We were told that the government was only using wire taps etc only to combat terrorist activities. Looks like they are more liberal with their use than that. This administration seems repercussion proof - they can do what they want and suffer no consequences. The USA is what it is, because of the US constitution - once we have destroyed the rights and principles of the constitution we are no longer the USA except in name only. After that we are not protecting the USA from terrorists, but simply protecting a geographic region. I actually fear posting this, because as we know there are ratfinks on this group who love to forward mail and cause trouble - and I actually have concerns that our administration would take and may take Gitanamo type actions on US civilians that it felt were not marching like good little lemmings to the Pat-on-like beat of Bushes war drums - smiling happy like Stepford wives as our youth are sent to die in Iraq looking for non-existent WMD, as President enriched by oil money lets us be bled dry just trying to fill our gas tanks so we can earn enough money to pay off the huge national debt he has accrued since being in office, while having stripped us of our rights and freedoms. Our constitution, which once promised us freedoms and rights, which rights have been destroyed - hangs figuratively in tatters. The government spies on the press, seeking to eliminate its right to publish news - with freedom of the press one of our former constitutional rights - now hanging by a thread. Freedom of the press? The constitution hangs tattered, and soon will be a mere symbol of the freedoms we once had - as our reporters are silenced, the press controlled - and we are told by government controlled propaganda news sources that "All is well. We are winning the war on terror. We are improving the energy/gas crisis. You are still safe and free".

More people voted for American Idol the other night than had ever voted for a presidential election - that is how much America cares about its deplorable state. Give US citizens more Jerry Springer, more American Idol, more THE VIEW - and they do not care if they are no longer in reality free. In a country where a great leader once said "Give me liberty or give me death" we now declare "Give me the pretense of freedom, give me a false sense of security by frisking little old ladies at the airport, and go right ahead and destroy the constitution - we don't care, because Jerry Springer is on".

Anglen

[Guest guest]

OK, I'll bite: didn't Plame get "outed" by those bastards Cheney and Rover, because her husband called bullshit on their false claims? And they got away with that one, too!

Better not say much more or my phone calls will be recorded.

And no fair yelling "Clinton! Clinton! Clinton!" I'd rather have a president who canoodled with an intern and, yes, lied about it, rather than the unAmerican imperial regime, who are lying and screwing an entire country, and sending kids to their deaths under false premises.

Sorry, you got my dander up. It startles me to think that people still support the Cheney-Bush crime syndicate, when the evidence of their undermining of the foundations of our great nation grows almost daily.

I love my country. I honor our veterans. I despise our federal government.

Alan

Creswell Chiropractic

p.s. Here's hoping against hope that McCain runs on a bipartisan ticket. I'd vote for him.

In a message dated 5/26/2006 11:13:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, drscott@... writes:

The Chicago Tribune...with a fine history of publishing the leaked secret that we had broken the Japanese code after the Battle of Midway so they could adjust their code, extend the war, and kill more Americans, pinos, Chinese, etc. (The Japanese didn’t learn of the published article due to the vagaries of war. Hard to find a Chicago Tribune anywhere outside of the U.S. In 1942.)Just a ponderable:If we learn that:A. all major western civilized governments and Saddam’s own generals believed that he had WMD’s;B. translated documents seized from Saddam’s headquarters prove that he was funding Al Qaeda through Bangladesh banks;(You remember; al-qaeda, the guys who brought us 9-11, the near demise of our airline industry, and a major blow to our economy.)Will that be enough to agree that Bush didn’t lie, congress wasn’t deceived, and the invasion of Iraq was a proper use of military strength to fight terrorism abroad?No fair yelling “Halliburton! Halliburton! Halliburton!†in lieu of a salient argument.( E. Abrahamson, D.C.)Chiropractic physicianLake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic315 Second StreetLake Oswego, OR 97034503-635-6246Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com/

[Guest guest]

The Chicago Tribune...with a fine history of publishing the leaked secret that we had broken the Japanese code after the Battle of Midway so they could adjust their code, extend the war, and kill more Americans, pinos, Chinese, etc. (The Japanese didn’t learn of the published article due to the vagaries of war. Hard to find a Chicago Tribune anywhere outside of the U.S. In 1942.)

Just a ponderable:

If we learn that:

A. all major western civilized governments and Saddam’s own generals believed that he had WMD’s;

B. translated documents seized from Saddam’s headquarters prove that he was funding Al Qaeda through Bangladesh banks;

(You remember; al-qaeda, the guys who brought us 9-11, the near demise of our airline industry, and a major blow to our economy.)

Will that be enough to agree that Bush didn’t lie, congress wasn’t deceived, and the invasion of Iraq was a proper use of military strength to fight terrorism abroad?

No fair yelling “Halliburton! Halliburton! Halliburton!” in lieu of a salient argument.

( E. Abrahamson, D.C.)

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

Our Mission:

To help God's children enjoy life to the fullest, and become excellent stewards of their health.

From: <ang320@...>

Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 11:44:19 EDT

< >

Subject: Re: OT :

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/2006/05/govt_source_tel.html

We were told that the government was only using wire taps etc only to combat terrorist activities. Looks like they are more liberal with their use than that. This administration seems repercussion proof - they can do what they want and suffer no consequences. The USA is what it is, because of the US constitution - once we have destroyed the rights and principles of the constitution we are no longer the USA except in name only. After that we are not protecting the USA from terrorists, but simply protecting a geographic region. I actually fear posting this, because as we know there are ratfinks on this group who love to forward mail and cause trouble - and I actually have concerns that our administration would take and may take Gitanamo type actions on US civilians that it felt were not marching like good little lemmings to the Pat-on-like beat of Bushes war drums - smiling happy like Stepford wives as our youth are sent to die in Iraq looking for non-existent WMD, as President enriched by oil money lets us be bled dry just trying to fill our gas tanks so we can earn enough money to pay off the huge national debt he has accrued since being in office, while having stripped us of our rights and freedoms. Our constitution, which once promised us freedoms and rights, which rights have been destroyed - hangs figuratively in tatters. The government spies on the press, seeking to eliminate its right to publish news - with freedom of the press one of our former constitutional rights - now hanging by a thread. Freedom of the press? The constitution hangs tattered, and soon will be a mere symbol of the freedoms we once had - as our reporters are silenced, the press controlled - and we are told by government controlled propaganda news sources that " All is well. We are winning the war on terror. We are improving the energy/gas crisis. You are still safe and free " .

More people voted for American Idol the other night than had ever voted for a presidential election - that is how much America cares about its deplorable state. Give US citizens more Jerry Springer, more American Idol, more THE VIEW - and they do not care if they are no longer in reality free. In a country where a great leader once said " Give me liberty or give me death " we now declare " Give me the pretense of freedom, give me a false sense of security by frisking little old ladies at the airport, and go right ahead and destroy the constitution - we don't care, because Jerry Springer is on " .

Anglen

OregonDCs rules:

1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.

2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/26/2006 2:00:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, drscott@... writes:

Let’s take a stab at the truth for truth’s sake. Do we care or have we already made up our minds?

You need to state that while looking in the mirror.

This is a chiropractic board. Your continual proselytizing for the conservative cause is driving me away from this board, as I know it has others. Do you have some pathological need to try to "win" people over from the left side of the political spectrum to the right? It hasn't happened, it isn't happening, it ain't gonna happen.

We probably agree on many things, chiropractically. If you want to talk politics in terms of its relationship to the chiropractic profession and how we can work together to change things for the better, then let the dialog begin/continue. If you want to blather on about those UNAMERICAN, evil, EVIL bastards in the White House, knowing that many on the board disagree with your (in my opinon) skewed views, you're in the wrong forum. Even when labeled off-topic, they almost always go unanswered, probably giving you some idea that you've "won." If you want to continue polarizing this board, then have at it. But why don't you try something constructive?

Alan

Creswell Chiropractic

[Guest guest]

Alan,

As I understand it, Plame was outed incidental to a needed response to her husband’s erroneous report that Saddam was NOT attempting to purchase enriched uranium from Niger, a claim which was later found to be false; Saddam was. Plame’s husband, Ambassador ph C. took it upon himself to campaign against the war and to go on record with his “evidence” that the war was promoted for false reasons. If his statements were true, the truth is important. If they were false, they needed a response. As we learned from the Viet Nam war, the will of the American public to win the war is as important as the troops on the ground.

Let’s take a stab at the truth for truth’s sake. Do we care or have we already made up our minds?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here we go:

THE REASONING...

DID THE CIA OUT VALERIE PLAME?

By Malkin <http://michellemalkin.com/> ·

July 18, 2005 08:56 AM <http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003039.htm>

McCarthy <http://www.nationalreview.com/mccarthy/mccarthy200507180801.asp> has the lowdown: You heard that this was the crime of the century. A sort of -Hanssen-meets-Watergate in which [Karl] Rove is already cooked and we're all just waiting for the other shoe ˜ or shoes ˜ to drop on the den of corruption we know as the Bush administration. That, after all, is the inescapable impression from all the media coverage. So who is saying different? The organized media, that's who. How come you haven't heard? Because they've decided not to tell you. Because they say one thing ˜ one dark, transparently partisan thing ˜ when they're talking to you in their news coverage, but they say something completely different when they think you're not listening.

McCarthy points us to the MSM's amicus brief <http://www.bakerlaw.com/files/tbl_s10News/FileUpload44/10159/Amici%20Brief%20032305%20(Final).PDF> filed four months ago in support of Judith and :Though you would not know it from watching the news, you learn from reading the news agencies' brief that the 1982 law prohibiting disclosure of undercover agents' identities explicitly sets forth a complete defense to this crime. It is contained in Section 422 (of Title 50, U.S. Code), and it provides that an accused leaker is in the clear if, sometime before the leak, " the United States ha publicly acknowledged or revealed " the covert agent's " intelligence relationship to the United States[.] "

As it happens, the media organizations informed the court that long before the [bob] Novak revelation (which, as noted above, did not disclose Plame's classified relationship with the CIA), Plame's cover was blown not once but twice. The media based this contention on reporting by the indefatigable Bill Gertz ˜ an old-school, " let's find out what really happened " kind of journalist. Gertz's relevant article, published a year ago in the Washington Times, can be found here <http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040722-115439-4033r.htm> ..lakeoswegochiro.com <http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com>

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

THE EVIDENCE...

CIA officer named prior to column

By Bill Gertz

THE WASHINGTON TIMES

The identity of CIA officer Plame was compromised twice before her name appeared in a news column that triggered a federal illegal-disclosure investigation, U.S. officials say.

    Mrs. Plame's identity as an undercover CIA officer was first disclosed to Russia in the mid-1990s by a Moscow spy, said officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

    In a second compromise, officials said a more recent inadvertent disclosure resulted in references to Mrs. Plame in confidential documents sent by the CIA to the U.S. Interests Section of the Swiss Embassy in Havana.

    The documents were supposed to be sealed from the Cuban government, but intelligence officials said the Cubans read the classified material and learned the secrets contained in them, the officials said.

    The investigation into who revealed Mrs. Plame's identity publicly has reached the highest levels of the U.S. government. President Bush was questioned by investigators June 24.

    Mrs. Plame is the wife of former U.S. Ambassador ph C. IV, a critic of the Bush administration who has accused the president of misusing intelligence to go to war in Iraq. Mr. also accuses White House officials of deliberately revealing Mrs. Plame's name in an effort to discredit him.

    In 2003, Mr. publicly debunked reports that Iraq was seeking uranium ore from Niger. Mr. also said his report ruling out the attempted purchase was ignored.

    However, recent reports by the Senate Intelligence Committee and the British government have undermined Mr. 's charges. The Senate says Mr. 's report, contrary to his charges, actually bolstered their view that Iraq was seeking uranium ore from Niger.

    The British government said it believes intelligence reports obtained by the Joint Intelligence Committee that point to attempts by Saddam Hussein's government to buy uranium from Niger.

    The White House announced last year that it erred in including a statement on the attempted ore purchase in Mr. Bush's State of the Union speech about the Niger-Iraq connection.

    Mrs. Plame's identity first was revealed publicly by Chicago Sun-Times columnist Novak in a July 14, 2003, column about Mr. 's trip to Niger to investigate reports that Iraq was trying to buy uranium ore for a nuclear-arms program.

    The Justice Department then began an investigation of the disclosure under the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act, which makes it a crime to knowingly disclose the name of a covert agent.

    However, officials said the disclosure that Mrs. Plame's cover was blown before the news column undermines the prosecution of the government official who might have revealed the name, officials said.

     " The law says that to be covered by the act the intelligence community has to take steps to affirmatively protect someone's cover, " one official said. " In this case, the CIA failed to do that. "

    A second official, however, said the compromises before the news column were not publicized and thus should not affect the investigation of the Plame matter.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Any other salient arguments?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Lastly, Re: “sending kids to their deaths under false premises.”

Do you not believe that the entire intelligence community from Moscow to Bejing to the Senate Intelligence committee who had the data, thought that Saddam had WMD’s and they are on record as saying it? (Including Hillary Clinton! Clinton! Clinton!)

( E. Abrahamson, D.C.)

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

Our Mission:

To help God's children enjoy life to the fullest, and become excellent stewards of their health.

From: <Creswellchiro@...>

Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 16:03:29 EDT

< >

Subject: Re: OT :

OK, I'll bite: didn't Plame get " outed " by those bastards Cheney and Rover, because her husband called bullshit on their false claims? And they got away with that one, too!

Better not say much more or my phone calls will be recorded.

And no fair yelling " Clinton! Clinton! Clinton! " I'd rather have a president who canoodled with an intern and, yes, lied about it, rather than the unAmerican imperial regime, who are lying and screwing an entire country, and sending kids to their deaths under false premises.

Sorry, you got my dander up. It startles me to think that people still support the Cheney-Bush crime syndicate, when the evidence of their undermining of the foundations of our great nation grows almost daily.

I love my country. I honor our veterans. I despise our federal government.

Alan

Creswell Chiropractic

p.s. Here's hoping against hope that McCain runs on a bipartisan ticket. I'd vote for him.

In a message dated 5/26/2006 11:13:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, drscott@... writes:

The Chicago Tribune...with a fine history of publishing the leaked secret that we had broken the Japanese code after the Battle of Midway so they could adjust their code, extend the war, and kill more Americans, pinos, Chinese, etc. (The Japanese didn’t learn of the published article due to the vagaries of war. Hard to find a Chicago Tribune anywhere outside of the U.S. In 1942.)

Just a ponderable:

If we learn that:

A. all major western civilized governments and Saddam’s own generals believed that he had WMD’s;

B. translated documents seized from Saddam’s headquarters prove that he was funding Al Qaeda through Bangladesh banks;

(You remember; al-qaeda, the guys who brought us 9-11, the near demise of our airline industry, and a major blow to our economy.)

Will that be enough to agree that Bush didn’t lie, congress wasn’t deceived, and the invasion of Iraq was a proper use of military strength to fight terrorism abroad?

No fair yelling “Halliburton! Halliburton! Halliburton!” in lieu of a salient argument.

( E. Abrahamson, D.C.)

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com/

OregonDCs rules:

1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.

2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/26/2006 11:06:42 AM US Mountain Standard Time, drscott@... writes:

If we learn that:

A. all major western civilized governments and Saddam’s own generals believed that he had WMD’s;

B. translated documents seized from Saddam’s headquarters prove that he was funding Al Qaeda through Bangladesh banks;

Regarding (A) - this is not true. Not true at all. The fact that so many western civilized countries did NOT believe it is the exact reason why so many countries (such as France) did not support our war on Iraqi's. We had little support for the war - primarily just Great Britain (who supposedly manufactured, I mean provided the evidence of WMD. Most countries did not believe it - I know I did not believe it when I heard it, I know that nobody in my family believed it - it smelled like BS, it looked like BS and it tasted like BS - therefore we concluded it was BS. We were right.

Regarding ( - I have not seen this evidence, and based on the error stated in (A) I have to conclude that this is not true until I see some evidence.

Support our troops by bringing them home so that no more of our youth have to have their guts spilled onto the ground, their legs blown off, and their lives spent in this fiasco created by lies.

Anglen

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/26/2006 2:31:57 PM US Mountain Standard Time, Creswellchiro@... writes:

Your continual proselytizing for the conservative cause is driving me away from this board, as I know it has others.

I was the one who started the thread - and I apologize if this off topic issue has offended others. it was certainly meant to stir people up, but I did not want to upset people to the point of leaving. I apologize.

Anglen

[Guest guest]

Ditto, Alan. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: Creswellchiro@...To: Subject: Re: OT :Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 16:03:29 EDT

OK, I'll bite: didn't Plame get "outed" by those bastards Cheney and Rover, because her husband called bullshit on their false claims? And they got away with that one, too!

Better not say much more or my phone calls will be recorded.

And no fair yelling "Clinton! Clinton! Clinton!" I'd rather have a president who canoodled with an intern and, yes, lied about it, rather than the unAmerican imperial regime, who are lying and screwing an entire country, and sending kids to their deaths under false premises.

Sorry, you got my dander up. It startles me to think that people still support the Cheney-Bush crime syndicate, when the evidence of their undermining of the foundations of our great nation grows almost daily.

I love my country. I honor our veterans. I despise our federal government.

Alan

Creswell Chiropractic

p.s. Here's hoping against hope that McCain runs on a bipartisan ticket. I'd vote for him.

In a message dated 5/26/2006 11:13:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, drscott@... writes:

The Chicago Tribune...with a fine history of publishing the leaked secret that we had broken the Japanese code after the Battle of Midway so they could adjust their code, extend the war, and kill more Americans, pinos, Chinese, etc. (The Japanese didn’t learn of the published article due to the vagaries of war. Hard to find a Chicago Tribune anywhere outside of the U.S. In 1942.)Just a ponderable:If we learn that:A. all major western civilized governments and Saddam’s own generals believed that he had WMD’s;B. translated documents seized from Saddam’s headquarters prove that he was funding Al Qaeda through Bangladesh banks;(You remember; al-qaeda, the guys who brought us 9-11, the near demise of our airline industry, and a major blow to our economy.)Will that be enough to agree that Bush didn’t lie, congress wasn’t deceived, and the invasion of Iraq was a proper use of military strength to fight terrorism abroad?No fair yelling “Halliburton! Halliburton! Halliburton!†in lieu of a salient argument.( E. Abrahamson, D.C.)Chiropractic physicianLake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic315 Second StreetLake Oswego, OR 97034503-635-6246Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com/

OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

I believe Alan speaks for many of us on the listservice. I too grow tired of

the one sided assesment of every political event that hits the news from

Washington. This is a forum for reasoned discourse, not biased polemics

directed at fellow docs. I am one who hasn't taken the time to respond to the

many amazing political argumnets that has presented on this venue. That

does not mean I agree with them, it just means I have given up trying to reason

with someone with an intractable viewpoint when it comes to the heroics of the

Bush Regime.

, I urge you to use your considerable wit and ingenuity to further our

profession and leave defense of the current administration to the Bush team of

Karl, Dick, and Condoleza and others.

Schneider

PDX

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------

From: Creswellchiro@...

Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 17:30:38 EDT

>In a message dated 5/26/2006 2:00:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

>drscott@... writes:

>Let’s take a stab at the truth for truth’s sake. Do we care or have we

>already made up our minds?

>You need to state that while looking in the mirror.

>

>This is a chiropractic board. Your continual proselytizing for the

>conservative cause is driving me away from this board, as I know it has others.

Do you

>have some pathological need to try to " win " people over from the left side of

>the political spectrum to the right? It hasn't happened, it isn't happening, it

>ain't gonna happen.

>

>We probably agree on many things, chiropractically. If you want to talk

>politics in terms of its relationship to the chiropractic profession and how we

can

>work together to change things for the better, then let the dialog

>begin/continue. If you want to blather on about those UNAMERICAN, evil, EVIL

bastards in

>the White House, knowing that many on the board disagree with your (in my

>opinon) skewed views, you're in the wrong forum. Even when labeled off-topic,

>they almost always go unanswered, probably giving you some idea that you've

> " won. " If you want to continue polarizing this board, then have at it. But why

>don't you try something constructive?

>

>Alan

>Creswell Chiropractic

>

>

[Guest guest]

Vern,

Two or three years ago my son was injured on the job at Home Depot. Upper back and neck. He was funneled into Concentra and his recollection is that it was strongly implied that it was his only option. He was treated with meds and PT and he says that the PT thought he ought to come see me but not under that claim.

For what its worth.

Rick Balsiger, D.C.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Rick,

Good info., give me more ammo!

VErn

Re: OT :

Vern, Two or three years ago my son was injured on the job at Home Depot. Upper back and neck. He was funneled into Concentra and his recollection is that it was strongly implied that it was his only option. He was treated with meds and PT and he says that the PT thought he ought to come see me but not under that claim.For what its worth.Rick Balsiger, D.C.

[Guest guest]

VS, What about Occ. Clinics and Rehab. centers who 'market' to case managers about how steering clients to their office will 'eliminate' the 'other' healthcare providers ?

sharron fuchs dc

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of vsaboe@...Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 6:44 AMschneider@...; ; Creswellchiro@...Subject: Re: OT :

Ya, I wish I would get just a bit of this level of response to the steering of Workers' Comp patients away from our offices! I need your help guys and gals! I need you to post examples of how injured workers were told they had to go to this particular Occ Med Center or the Company Doctor, or even that they couldn't see you as a DC because they are not "authorized" to see a chiropractor etc.The MLAC meeting is June 8.Tanks,Vern Saboe Re: OT :I believe Alan speaks for many of us on the listservice. I too grow tired of the one sided assesment of every political event that hits the news from Washington. This is a forum for reasoned discourse, not biased polemics directed at fellow docs. I am one who hasn't taken the time to respond to the many amazing political argumnets that has presented on this venue. That does not mean I agree with them, it just means I have given up trying to reason with someone with an intractable viewpoint when it comes to the heroics of the Bush Regime., I urge you to use your considerable wit and ingenuity to further our profession and leave defense of the current administration to the Bush team of Karl, Dick, and Condoleza and others. SchneiderPDX---------- Original Message ----------------------------------From: Creswellchiro@...Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 17:30:38 EDT>In a message dated 5/26/2006 2:00:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,>drscott@... writes:>Letâ?Ts take a stab at the truth for truthâ?Ts sake. Do we care or have we>already made up our minds?>You need to state that while looking in the mirror.>>This is a chiropractic board. Your continual proselytizing for the>conservative cause is driving me away from this board, as I know it has >others. Do you>have some pathological need to try to "win" people over from the left side >of>the political spectrum to the right? It hasn't happened, it isn't >happening, it>ain't gonna happen.>>We probably agree on many things, chiropractically. If you want to talk>politics in terms of its relationship to the chiropractic profession and >how we can>work together to change things for the better, then let the dialog>begin/continue. If you want to blather on about those UNAMERICAN, evil, >EVIL bastards in>the White House, knowing that many on the board disagree with your (in my>opinon) skewed views, you're in the wrong forum. Even when labeled >off-topic,>they almost always go unanswered, probably giving you some idea that you've>"won." If you want to continue polarizing this board, then have at it. But >why>don't you try something constructive?>>Alan >Creswell Chiropractic>>OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

That be what I'm talking about. Not sure we couldn't final a civil suit of some kind against the OCC Med Centers, but as far as state statute I don't think we could touch anyone but the risk managers and their employers.

Vern

Re: OT :I believe Alan speaks for many of us on the listservice. I too grow tired of the one sided assesment of every political event that hits the news from Washington. This is a forum for reasoned discourse, not biased polemics directed at fellow docs. I am one who hasn't taken the time to respond to the many amazing political argumnets that has presented on this venue. That does not mean I agree with them, it just means I have given up trying to reason with someone with an intractable viewpoint when it comes to the heroics of the Bush Regime., I urge you to use your considerable wit and ingenuity to further our profession and leave defense of the current administration to the Bush team of Karl, Dick, and Condoleza and others. SchneiderPDX---------- Original Message ----------------------------------From: Creswellchiro@...Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 17:30:38 EDT>In a message dated 5/26/2006 2:00:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,>drscott@... writes:>Letâ?Ts take a stab at the truth for truthâ?Ts sake. Do we care or have we>already made up our minds?>You need to state that while looking in the mirror.>>This is a chiropractic board. Your continual proselytizing for the>conservative cause is driving me away from this board, as I know it has >others. Do you>have some pathological need to try to "win" people over from the left side >of>the political spectrum to the right? It hasn't happened, it isn't >happening, it>ain't gonna happen.>>We probably agree on many things, chiropractically. If you want to talk>politics in terms of its relationship to the chiropractic profession and >how we can>work together to change things for the better, then let the dialog>begin/continue. If you want to blather on about those UNAMERICAN, evil, >EVIL bastards in>the White House, knowing that many on the board disagree with your (in my>opinon) skewed views, you're in the wrong forum. Even when labeled >off-topic,>they almost always go unanswered, probably giving you some idea that you've>"won." If you want to continue polarizing this board, then have at it. But >why>don't you try something constructive?>>Alan >Creswell Chiropractic>>OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

Dean

Re: OT :I believe Alan speaks for many of us on the listservice. I too grow tired of the one sided assesment of every political event that hits the news from Washington. This is a forum for reasoned discourse, not biased polemics directed at fellow docs. I am one who hasn't taken the time to respond to the many amazing political argumnets that has presented on this venue. That does not mean I agree with them, it just means I have given up trying to reason with someone with an intractable viewpoint when it comes to the heroics of the Bush Regime., I urge you to use your considerable wit and ingenuity to further our profession and leave defense of the current administration to the Bush team of Karl, Dick, and Condoleza and others. SchneiderPDX---------- Original Message ----------------------------------From: Creswellchiro@...Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 17:30:38 EDT>In a message dated 5/26/2006 2:00:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,>drscott@... writes:>Letâ?Ts take a stab at the truth for truthâ?Ts sake. Do we care or have we>already made up our minds?>You need to state that while looking in the mirror.>>This is a chiropractic board. Your continual proselytizing for the>conservative cause is driving me away from this board, as I know it has >others. Do you>have some pathological need to try to "win" people over from the left side >of>the political spectrum to the right? It hasn't happened, it isn't >happening, it>ain't gonna happen.>>We probably agree on many things, chiropractically. If you want to talk>politics in terms of its relationship to the chiropractic profession and >how we can>work together to change things for the better, then let the dialog>begin/continue. If you want to blather on about those UNAMERICAN, evil, >EVIL bastards in>the White House, knowing that many on the board disagree with your (in my>opinon) skewed views, you're in the wrong forum. Even when labeled >off-topic,>they almost always go unanswered, probably giving you some idea that you've>"won." If you want to continue polarizing this board, then have at it. But >why>don't you try something constructive?>>Alan >Creswell Chiropractic>>OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

I think this is truly the main issue in this state. It is always about money. The companies in the state are using work comp advisors or safety specialists who are instructing them to send their injured worker to an Occ Med clinic. The reason: it is less expensive than the emergency room. They have also been convinced that the Occ Med groups will offer rehab that will substantially reduce the costs of this injury and get the worker back to work without permanent partial disability. What's in it for the Safety guys advising this idea? Happy employer clients who see the work comp rates not escalating anymore. Bottom line, it saves them money.

What can we as a profession offer that is better? What can we offer that is even more cost effective? Don't forget....the money.

In some states they require a special training certificate that offers the employer a choice of Occ med or the D.C. who we all agree has substantially better tools and less cost overall. These Chiropractors have a special "state certification" for treating injured workers. Why not just offer our license as our specialty? We will have to convince the court of "public opinion" of our difference, not just say so. How are we more cost effective than the Occ Med center? How can we help the employer reduce his work comp costs?

Anyone for a special weekend seminar covering the certificate requirements. How about making it part of the next state convention?

Somehow we need to convince and market the idea we are different and why. We can't just say we are better, and offer the same old tired explanations.

Yes the approved state study will say something, (atta boy Vern,) but so will steps to offer insurance companies distinction that our therapies will save them money. I can't say it enough, It's always about the money.

My two cents...

Dean D.C.

Portland, Oregon

Re: OT :I believe Alan speaks for many of us on the listservice. I too grow tired of the one sided assesment of every political event that hits the news from Washington. This is a forum for reasoned discourse, not biased polemics directed at fellow docs. I am one who hasn't taken the time to respond to the many amazing political argumnets that has presented on this venue. That does not mean I agree with them, it just means I have given up trying to reason with someone with an intractable viewpoint when it comes to the heroics of the Bush Regime., I urge you to use your considerable wit and ingenuity to further our profession and leave defense of the current administration to the Bush team of Karl, Dick, and Condoleza and others. SchneiderPDX---------- Original Message ----------------------------------From: Creswellchiro@...Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 17:30:38 EDT>In a message dated 5/26/2006 2:00:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,>drscott@... writes:>Letâ?Ts take a stab at the truth for truthâ?Ts sake. Do we care or have we>already made up our minds?>You need to state that while looking in the mirror.>>This is a chiropractic board. Your continual proselytizing for the>conservative cause is driving me away from this board, as I know it has >others. Do you>have some pathological need to try to "win" people over from the left side >of>the political spectrum to the right? It hasn't happened, it isn't >happening, it>ain't gonna happen.>>We probably agree on many things, chiropractically. If you want to talk>politics in terms of its relationship to the chiropractic profession and >how we can>work together to change things for the better, then let the dialog>begin/continue. If you want to blather on about those UNAMERICAN, evil, >EVIL bastards in>the White House, knowing that many on the board disagree with your (in my>opinon) skewed views, you're in the wrong forum. Even when labeled >off-topic,>they almost always go unanswered, probably giving you some idea that you've>"won." If you want to continue polarizing this board, then have at it. But >why>don't you try something constructive?>>Alan >Creswell Chiropractic>>OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

A staunch republican from MN is wierd enough, but one that is from MN and lives in the Willamette valley??? Impossible.

Dr. , you remind me of my uncle who is an attorney and hardcore republican from AZ. I could smack him with the truth across his conservative mug repeatedly without him feeling the sting. Anyway as to the following statement I just could not keep myself from responding any longer:

"As we learned from the Viet Nam war, the will of the American public to win the war is as important as the troops on the ground."

Is this what was learned from our defeat in the Vietnam war? Are you actually insenuating that the Public had a hand in our loss of the Vietnam war? Isn't it the truth that the public was simply one step ahead of the government in seeing that this was a losing battle and probably saved many lives in their protests. I believe history shows we should have gotten out earlier. It appears our government hasn't learned a damn thing other than to ignore popular opinion and wimper "support our troops" when it feels that the public no longer supports their cause.

They were protesting for what the majority of Americans now feel : Our troops should come home, the war cannot be won perhaps because it's more of an occupation with an unclear enemy. We have young americans dying for what? With all due respect to the troops who have fallen, I wouldn't want my son to sacrifice his life for this nebulous cause.

BTW, we have just deployed another 1500 troops to Iraq and there is rioting in Afghanastan. 9/11 was in 2001 and the lives lost due to the war are beginning to equal those lost on that horrific date.(if not surpassed) Our borders are swiss cheese and Iraq is still without a functioning government. Ahhhh and then theres the "liberal" media that just spins the bad news. After 5 years of war and there is 90% bad and 10% good happening what do you think is going to make headlines? The fact that power has finally been restored to a obscure town and a small school has finally been opened for boys AND girls OR that our troops are continually being gunned down, bombed and murdered with no end in sight.

Feel safer???

Dr. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1627 NE Alberta St. #6Portland, OR 97211Ph: 503-788-6800c: 503-889-6204

Re: OT :OK, I'll bite: didn't Plame get "outed" by those bastards Cheney and Rover, because her husband called bullshit on their false claims? And they got away with that one, too! Better not say much more or my phone calls will be recorded. And no fair yelling "Clinton! Clinton! Clinton!" I'd rather have a president who canoodled with an intern and, yes, lied about it, rather than the unAmerican imperial regime, who are lying and screwing an entire country, and sending kids to their deaths under false premises. Sorry, you got my dander up. It startles me to think that people still support the Cheney-Bush crime syndicate, when the evidence of their undermining of the foundations of our great nation grows almost daily. I love my country. I honor our veterans. I despise our federal government. Alan Creswell Chiropractic p.s. Here's hoping against hope that McCain runs on a bipartisan ticket. I'd vote for him. In a message dated 5/26/2006 11:13:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, drscott@... writes:

The Chicago Tribune...with a fine history of publishing the leaked secret that we had broken the Japanese code after the Battle of Midway so they could adjust their code, extend the war, and kill more Americans, pinos, Chinese, etc. (The Japanese didn’t learn of the published article due to the vagaries of war. Hard to find a Chicago Tribune anywhere outside of the U.S. In 1942.)Just a ponderable:If we learn that:A. all major western civilized governments and Saddam’s own generals believed that he had WMD’s;B. translated documents seized from Saddam’s headquarters prove that he was funding Al Qaeda through Bangladesh banks;(You remember; al-qaeda, the guys who brought us 9-11, the near demise of our airline industry, and a major blow to our economy.)Will that be enough to agree that Bush didn’t lie, congress wasn’t deceived, and the invasion of Iraq was a proper use of military strength to fight terrorism abroad?No fair yelling “Halliburton! Halliburton! Halliburton!” in lieu of a salient argument.( E. Abrahamson, D.C.)Chiropractic physicianLake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic315 Second StreetLake Oswego, OR 97034503-635-6246Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com/OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

Concentra seems to be a major player here. UPS also sends it's employees there. Concentra's motto on the outside of their building is something like " work injury solutions" Now when i talked to the person you had mentioned (Dwayne or something) from SAIF, he said that they may have a contract with them much like an MCO, but he wasn't sure. I've had 2 patients in the past 3 months both from UPS that were funneled to Concentra. There they were told basically "take these, and get back to work". They must have some decent PT there though cuz he/she has agreed with me on two diagnosis that the MD was way off on.

Dr. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1627 NE Alberta St. #6Portland, OR 97211Ph: 503-788-6800c: 503-889-6204

Re: OT :

Vern, Two or three years ago my son was injured on the job at Home Depot. Upper back and neck. He was funneled into Concentra and his recollection is that it was strongly implied that it was his only option. He was treated with meds and PT and he says that the PT thought he ought to come see me but not under that claim.For what its worth.Rick Balsiger, D.C.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the post Joe, I'll add it to my stack for the June 8th MLAC meeting......please colleagues I could use as many of these stories as possible.

Vern Saboe

Re: OT :

Vern, Two or three years ago my son was injured on the job at Home Depot. Upper back and neck. He was funneled into Concentra and his recollection is that it was strongly implied that it was his only option. He was treated with meds and PT and he says that the PT thought he ought to come see me but not under that claim.For what its worth.Rick Balsiger, D.C.