Guest guest Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Dear Colleagues: I believe the larger issue here is not about whether Dr. Saboe was immediately up to speed with the Legislature's procedural protocols, just after he became a " card-carrying " lobbyist, but whether our profession is best served by allowing a minority of practitioners affect the legislative goals of the majority. Appearance and presentation are crucial to our success. ly, most of what I have seen come out of ODOC is nothing short of embarrassing in its presentation. We need the CAO and ODOC to come together and sort everything out. Then we need to send the best man to present our collective agenda. I fear that without such a meeting of the minds, we are doomed to continued embarrassment and failure. I have confidence in Dr. Saboe's abilities, and he has proven to be the most successful lobbyist we have ever had. He has my vote. (And by the way, Dr. Ray, a " majority " is obtained by counting the total number of votes placed by doctors who cared enough to vote. If one doesn't vote, one has no say. Just a point of order...) Cordially, Glenn Glenn F. Gumaer, B.S., D.C. Chiropractic Physician Northside Chiropractic Clinic 1240 N. Riverside Avenue Medford, OR 97501-4619 541-770-1330 ofc 541-770-7090 fax Saboe / Setera Dear Doctors; Let us look at some Facts: Do you recall the doctor of the day program at the capital during last session? Dr. Saboe got the program started, which was a good idea. However during the session Dr. Saboe as the registered and paid lobbyist for CAO was introduced on the legislative floor as the doctor of the day that created a problem because lobbyist are not allowed on the floor. As a result the doctor of the day program was stopped and Dr. Saboe was reprimanded, do you recall Dr. Vern the article is the Salem news pager? That created a negative issue for Chiropractic, but the entire ODOC legislative team including our lobbyists Mason and bob Orson to do a lot of damage control to save the session. Do you recall all our help? Dr. Saboe I have a copy of your post dated August 6, 2005, Thanking ODOC for all their help. I have a copy on the December 29.2005 post again thanking ODOC for all our help. You were told by me that our lobbyists were at your disposal at no cost to CAO and us used them a lot throught the session. Many ODOC members spent a great deal of time in Salem, on their own dime. De. Saboe do you recall that there was a joint agreement between ODOC and CAO? Do you recall the meeting is Salem when it was passed our and both associates excepted the terms? I have a copy if you want on I will send it to you. The part that that CAO did not live up to was the one about joint publications. Now, I cannot prove what you stated to me on the phone during our last conversation, but if you recall I told you if CAO wanted to work with ODOC in the future CAO has to straighten our this problem about not giving us some credit. At that time you stated CAO was not interested in working with us. You went on to say that ODOC did not do enough work during the last session to deserve any credit in our publications. Now Doctors who are reading this is that fair? Dr. Saboe is telling everyone that I, as a member of ODOC, is trying to limit our treatment rights within worker comp. I have Been political active sense 1977 and at no time have I ever stated that before and legislative body. MLAC knows we want full attending status. I stated we would love to have that, but if they would not give us our status back at least extend the current restrictions to 24 and 90. I have just learned to day the January MLAC hearing was recorded and I am trying to get a copy of my testimony. Now we will see who is the liar. I am sorry DR. that you have to put up with my ---- but a lot is a stake for all doctors of Chiropractic in Oregon. ODOC one again will introduced two bills that will make a difference, we need your help. I am Dr. Vern Saboe, I need your help. Our profession needs to work together on these issues. The Time is now, come join us and together we can make history. One last point I am not a good at using this key board and some time my spelling is not best but you will just have to overlook that and forgive me. Yours Truly, Setera DC OregonDCs rules: 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated. 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Friends, I agree with Glenn, unity of intent would serve our profession best. While the two-party political system is inherently divisive, it does leverage toward working out the kinks before any public presentation. A unified voice would be easiest for the legislators and the public to deal with, but not at the cost of denying representation. Internet accessibility has furthered political capacity for internal consultation and makes a majority voice more truly representative. What has evolved from the CAO in this instance is a functional majority voice for the state profession. What evolves from ODOC on future issues may represent us better. We need to wrangle amongst ourselves before we go public. This forum yields light. Sometimes the only why that happens is by sparking fires. All said, let's wrangle it out at-home before we take a public stance. Then, stand united behind our majority decision, instead of asking the legislators or the public to settle things for us. By fully supporting a legitimate majority stance, it's easier to see how things may need to be changed and to move toward such a solution quickly and unitedly, without historical ruminations. Unity in diversity recognizes all points of view, makes majority decisions, and moves forward together, confident that decisions can be changed to better reflect reality as needed. In this instance (CJ), the process has worked. Let's trust it and move forward with a single voice, keeping faith that our way is always open to every internal consideration. Best regards, Sears PDX On Mar 31, 2006, at 1:34 AM, Glenn F. Gumaer, D.C. wrote: > Dear Colleagues: > > I believe the larger issue here is not about whether Dr. Saboe was > immediately up to speed with the Legislature's procedural protocols, > just > after he became a " card-carrying " lobbyist, but whether our > profession is > best served by allowing a minority of practitioners affect the > legislative > goals of the majority. Appearance and presentation are crucial to our > success. ly, most of what I have seen come out of ODOC is > nothing short > of embarrassing in its presentation. We need the CAO and ODOC to come > together and sort everything out. Then we need to send the best man to > present our collective agenda. I fear that without such a meeting of > the > minds, we are doomed to continued embarrassment and failure. > > I have confidence in Dr. Saboe's abilities, and he has proven to be > the most > successful lobbyist we have ever had. He has my vote. (And by the > way, Dr. > Ray, a " majority " is obtained by counting the total number of votes > placed > by doctors who cared enough to vote. If one doesn't vote, one has no > say. > Just a point of order...) > > Cordially, > > Glenn > >  > > Glenn F. Gumaer, B.S., D.C. > Chiropractic Physician > Northside Chiropractic Clinic > 1240 N. Riverside Avenue > Medford, OR 97501-4619 > 541-770-1330 ofc > 541-770-7090 fax > Saboe / Setera > > Dear Doctors; Let us look at some Facts: > Do you recall the doctor of the day program at the capital during last > session? >     Dr. Saboe got the program started, which was a good idea. > However > during the session Dr. Saboe as the registered and paid lobbyist for > CAO was > > introduced on the legislative floor as the doctor of the day that > created a > problem > because lobbyist are not allowed on the floor. As a result the > doctor of > the > day program was stopped and Dr. Saboe was reprimanded, do you recall > Dr. > Vern > the article is the Salem news pager? That created a negative issue > for > Chiropractic, but the entire ODOC legislative team including our > lobbyists > > Mason and bob Orson to do a lot of damage control to save the > session. Do > you > recall all our help? > > Dr. Saboe I have a copy of your post dated August 6, 2005, Thanking > ODOC for > > all their help. I have a copy on the December 29.2005 post again > thanking > ODOC for all our help. You were told by me that our lobbyists were > at your > disposal at no cost to CAO and us used them a lot throught the > session. > > Many ODOC members spent a great deal of time in Salem, on their own > dime. > > De. Saboe do you recall that there was a joint agreement between > ODOC and > CAO? Do you recall the meeting is Salem when it was passed our and > both > associates excepted the terms? I have a copy if you want on I will > send it > to you. > The part that that CAO did not live up to was the one about joint > publications. > > Now, I cannot prove what you stated to me on the phone during our last > conversation, but if you recall I told you if CAO wanted to work with > ODOC > in the > future CAO has to straighten our this problem about not giving us some > credit. > At that time you stated CAO was not interested in working with us. > You went > > on to say that ODOC did not do enough work during the last session to > deserve > any credit in our publications. > > Now Doctors who are reading this is that fair? > > Dr. Saboe is telling everyone that I, as a member of ODOC, is trying > to > limit > our treatment rights within worker comp. I have Been political > active sense > > 1977 and at no time have I ever stated that before and legislative > body. > MLAC > knows we want full attending status. I stated we would love to have > that, > but if they would not give us our status back at least extend the > current > restrictions to 24 and 90. I have just learned to day the January > MLAC > hearing was > recorded and I am trying to get a copy of my testimony. Now we will > see who > > is the liar. > > I am sorry DR. that you have to put up with my ---- but a lot > is a > stake for all doctors of Chiropractic in Oregon. ODOC one again will > introduced > two bills that will make a difference, we need your help. I am Dr. > Vern > Saboe, I need your help. Our profession needs to work together on > these > issues. > The Time is now, come join us and together we can make history. > > One last point I am not a good at using this key board and some time > my > spelling is not best but you will just have to overlook that and > forgive me. > > > Yours Truly, > > Setera DC > > > OregonDCs rules: > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is > to > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on > listserve > members will be tolerated. > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. > However, > it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or > otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without > his or > her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Dear ; You know, I’m one of those longstanding CAO guys who agrees that there are some problems with the language of the CJ rule – the failure to spell out the narrow area of chiropractic practice that the rule is really appropriate to, the overemphasis of particular reference documents to be used to “justify” care, the whole issue of connotation with regard to naming the rule a “clinical justification rule”. There were a number of other CAO folks who felt similarly and posted in support of making some changes in the direction of a “clinical rationale” rule. Unfortunately, the dialog on this board and perhaps elsewhere veered toward ad hominem attacks and got a bit snarky. As much as I find the CJ rule language problematic, I trust and appreciate Dr. Vern Saboe and his incredible commitment of time and energy to the profession. I have to say too that, a few of the posts that were made in support of the clinical rationale rule were, and remember I liked much of the CR changes, IMHO, wacky as hell. Perhaps this is part of the reason that such a large percentage of respondents polled supported the CJ rule. Handled differently, constructive changes in the CJ rule may well have come about and now may not. “Our profession needs to work together on these issues. The Time is now, come join us and together we can make history.” I have to agree with your sentiment here. I just think that, when the atmosphere gets poisoned with comments of the character that got thrown around in this CJ/CR discussion, it makes that happy possibility unlikely. Best regards, S. Feinberg, D.C. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of rpsdc@... Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 10:43 PM @ Subject: Saboe / Setera Dear Doctors; Let us look at some Facts: Do you recall the doctor of the day program at the capital during last session? Dr. Saboe got the program started, which was a good idea. However during the session Dr. Saboe as the registered and paid lobbyist for CAO was introduced on the legislative floor as the doctor of the day that created a problem because lobbyist are not allowed on the floor. As a result the doctor of the day program was stopped and Dr. Saboe was reprimanded, do you recall Dr. Vern the article is the Salem news pager? That created a negative issue for Chiropractic, but the entire ODOC legislative team including our lobbyists Mason and bob Orson to do a lot of damage control to save the session. Do you recall all our help? Dr. Saboe I have a copy of your post dated August 6, 2005, Thanking ODOC for all their help. I have a copy on the December 29.2005 post again thanking ODOC for all our help. You were told by me that our lobbyists were at your disposal at no cost to CAO and us used them a lot throught the session. Many ODOC members spent a great deal of time in Salem, on their own dime. De. Saboe do you recall that there was a joint agreement between ODOC and CAO? Do you recall the meeting is Salem when it was passed our and both associates excepted the terms? I have a copy if you want on I will send it to you. The part that that CAO did not live up to was the one about joint publications. Now, I cannot prove what you stated to me on the phone during our last conversation, but if you recall I told you if CAO wanted to work with ODOC in the future CAO has to straighten our this problem about not giving us some credit. At that time you stated CAO was not interested in working with us. You went on to say that ODOC did not do enough work during the last session to deserve any credit in our publications. Now Doctors who are reading this is that fair? Dr. Saboe is telling everyone that I, as a member of ODOC, is trying to limit our treatment rights within worker comp. I have Been political active sense 1977 and at no time have I ever stated that before and legislative body. MLAC knows we want full attending status. I stated we would love to have that, but if they would not give us our status back at least extend the current restrictions to 24 and 90. I have just learned to day the January MLAC hearing was recorded and I am trying to get a copy of my testimony. Now we will see who is the liar. I am sorry DR. that you have to put up with my ---- but a lot is a stake for all doctors of Chiropractic in Oregon. ODOC one again will introduced two bills that will make a difference, we need your help. I am Dr. Vern Saboe, I need your help. Our profession needs to work together on these issues. The Time is now, come join us and together we can make history. One last point I am not a good at using this key board and some time my spelling is not best but you will just have to overlook that and forgive me. Yours Truly, Setera DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Here Here!! Not to mention that unity is power. Even if it's " perceived " Dr. ph Medlin D.C. Spine Tree Chiropractic 1627 NE Alberta St. #6 Portland, OR 97211 Ph: 503-788-6800 c: 503-889-6204 Saboe / Setera > > Dear Doctors; Let us look at some Facts: > Do you recall the doctor of the day program at the capital during last > session? > Dr. Saboe got the program started, which was a good idea. However > during the session Dr. Saboe as the registered and paid lobbyist for CAO > was > > introduced on the legislative floor as the doctor of the day that created > a > problem > because lobbyist are not allowed on the floor. As a result the doctor of > the > day program was stopped and Dr. Saboe was reprimanded, do you recall Dr. > Vern > the article is the Salem news pager? That created a negative issue for > Chiropractic, but the entire ODOC legislative team including our lobbyists > > Mason and bob Orson to do a lot of damage control to save the session. Do > you > recall all our help? > > Dr. Saboe I have a copy of your post dated August 6, 2005, Thanking ODOC > for > > all their help. I have a copy on the December 29.2005 post again thanking > ODOC for all our help. You were told by me that our lobbyists were at > your > disposal at no cost to CAO and us used them a lot throught the session. > > Many ODOC members spent a great deal of time in Salem, on their own dime. > > De. Saboe do you recall that there was a joint agreement between ODOC and > CAO? Do you recall the meeting is Salem when it was passed our and both > associates excepted the terms? I have a copy if you want on I will send > it > to you. > The part that that CAO did not live up to was the one about joint > publications. > > Now, I cannot prove what you stated to me on the phone during our last > conversation, but if you recall I told you if CAO wanted to work with ODOC > in the > future CAO has to straighten our this problem about not giving us some > credit. > At that time you stated CAO was not interested in working with us. You > went > > on to say that ODOC did not do enough work during the last session to > deserve > any credit in our publications. > > Now Doctors who are reading this is that fair? > > Dr. Saboe is telling everyone that I, as a member of ODOC, is trying to > limit > our treatment rights within worker comp. I have Been political active > sense > > 1977 and at no time have I ever stated that before and legislative body. > MLAC > knows we want full attending status. I stated we would love to have that, > but if they would not give us our status back at least extend the current > restrictions to 24 and 90. I have just learned to day the January MLAC > hearing was > recorded and I am trying to get a copy of my testimony. Now we will see > who > > is the liar. > > I am sorry DR. that you have to put up with my ---- but a lot is a > stake for all doctors of Chiropractic in Oregon. ODOC one again will > introduced > two bills that will make a difference, we need your help. I am Dr. Vern > Saboe, I need your help. Our profession needs to work together on these > issues. > The Time is now, come join us and together we can make history. > > One last point I am not a good at using this key board and some time my > spelling is not best but you will just have to overlook that and forgive > me. > > > Yours Truly, > > Setera DC > > > OregonDCs rules: > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve > members will be tolerated. > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. > However, > it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or > otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his > or > her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Excellent post Dr. Sears. I belong to "one" of the organizations because when the political shit hit-the-fan in 1989-90 (SB 1197) I distrusted the current leadership. I, therefore, joined an organization that I thought would fight against the "status quo." Having said that...I'm sick of the fighting! Two organizations are fine...(3 or 4 organizations would be fine!). What these organizations need to do is check their egos and chiropractic philosophies at the door...listen to what each group is trying to achieve politically, and then decide where they agree and where they disagree. Where they agree...they need to combine their resources and cooperate for the betterment of the profession. Period. Where they disagree, they need to agree to disagree. Period. They need to be tolerant of each organization's desire to seek legislation that is important to them. EVENTUALLY...legislators and insurers will begin to recognize the "philosophical" differences between the two organizations, and learn to deal with them accordingly... In the MEANTIME...if the two organizations NEVER agree on anything...and NEVER work together on anything...we will NEVER be viewed as ONE PROFESSION...and thus we will never be taken seriously on any issue! This is where we're shooting ourselves in the foot...(being viewed as "two groups" instead of "one profession" with diverse clinical and political views). M. s, D.C. Saboe / SeteraDear Doctors; Let us look at some Facts:Do you recall the doctor of the day program at the capital during lastsession? Dr. Saboe got the program started, which was a good idea. However during the session Dr. Saboe as the registered and paid lobbyist for CAO wasintroduced on the legislative floor as the doctor of the day that created aproblem because lobbyist are not allowed on the floor. As a result the doctor ofthe day program was stopped and Dr. Saboe was reprimanded, do you recall Dr.Vern the article is the Salem news pager? That created a negative issue for Chiropractic, but the entire ODOC legislative team including our lobbyists Mason and bob Orson to do a lot of damage control to save the session. Doyou recall all our help?Dr. Saboe I have a copy of your post dated August 6, 2005, Thanking ODOC forall their help. I have a copy on the December 29.2005 post again thanking ODOC for all our help. You were told by me that our lobbyists were at your disposal at no cost to CAO and us used them a lot throught the session.Many ODOC members spent a great deal of time in Salem, on their own dime.De. Saboe do you recall that there was a joint agreement between ODOC and CAO? Do you recall the meeting is Salem when it was passed our and both associates excepted the terms? I have a copy if you want on I will send itto you. The part that that CAO did not live up to was the one about jointpublications.Now, I cannot prove what you stated to me on the phone during our last conversation, but if you recall I told you if CAO wanted to work with ODOCin the future CAO has to straighten our this problem about not giving us somecredit. At that time you stated CAO was not interested in working with us. You wenton to say that ODOC did not do enough work during the last session todeserve any credit in our publications.Now Doctors who are reading this is that fair?Dr. Saboe is telling everyone that I, as a member of ODOC, is trying tolimit our treatment rights within worker comp. I have Been political active sense1977 and at no time have I ever stated that before and legislative body.MLAC knows we want full attending status. I stated we would love to have that, but if they would not give us our status back at least extend the current restrictions to 24 and 90. I have just learned to day the January MLAChearing wasrecorded and I am trying to get a copy of my testimony. Now we will see whois the liar.I am sorry DR. that you have to put up with my ---- but a lot is a stake for all doctors of Chiropractic in Oregon. ODOC one again willintroduced two bills that will make a difference, we need your help. I am Dr. Vern Saboe, I need your help. Our profession needs to work together on theseissues. The Time is now, come join us and together we can make history. One last point I am not a good at using this key board and some time my spelling is not best but you will just have to overlook that and forgive me.Yours Truly, Setera DCOregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is tofoster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listservemembers will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However,it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, orotherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his orher consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Glen: Thanks for your comments. I agree with you on all points except one- the best person at some point may be a woman. I think Vern is the best one to represent us now. Ann Goldeen, Astoria Saboe / SeteraDear Doctors; Let us look at some Facts:Do you recall the doctor of the day program at the capital during last session? Dr. Saboe got the program started, which was a good idea. However during the session Dr. Saboe as the registered and paid lobbyist for CAO wasintroduced on the legislative floor as the doctor of the day that created aproblem because lobbyist are not allowed on the floor. As a result the doctor ofthe day program was stopped and Dr. Saboe was reprimanded, do you recall Dr.Vern the article is the Salem news pager? That created a negative issue for Chiropractic, but the entire ODOC legislative team including our lobbyists Mason and bob Orson to do a lot of damage control to save the session. Doyou recall all our help?Dr. Saboe I have a copy of your post dated August 6, 2005, Thanking ODOC forall their help. I have a copy on the December 29.2005 post again thanking ODOC for all our help. You were told by me that our lobbyists were at your disposal at no cost to CAO and us used them a lot throught the session.Many ODOC members spent a great deal of time in Salem, on their own dime.De. Saboe do you recall that there was a joint agreement between ODOC and CAO? Do you recall the meeting is Salem when it was passed our and both associates excepted the terms? I have a copy if you want on I will send itto you. The part that that CAO did not live up to was the one about jointpublications.Now, I cannot prove what you stated to me on the phone during our last conversation, but if you recall I told you if CAO wanted to work with ODOCin the future CAO has to straighten our this problem about not giving us somecredit. At that time you stated CAO was not interested in working with us. You wenton to say that ODOC did not do enough work during the last session todeserve any credit in our publications.Now Doctors who are reading this is that fair?Dr. Saboe is telling everyone that I, as a member of ODOC, is trying tolimit our treatment rights within worker comp. I have Been political active sense1977 and at no time have I ever stated that before and legislative body.MLAC knows we want full attending status. I stated we would love to have that, but if they would not give us our status back at least extend the current restrictions to 24 and 90. I have just learned to day the January MLAChearing was recorded and I am trying to get a copy of my testimony. Now we will see whois the liar.I am sorry DR. that you have to put up with my ---- but a lot is a stake for all doctors of Chiropractic in Oregon. ODOC one again willintroduced two bills that will make a difference, we need your help. I am Dr. Vern Saboe, I need your help. Our profession needs to work together on theseissues. The Time is now, come join us and together we can make history. One last point I am not a good at using this key board and some time my spelling is not best but you will just have to overlook that and forgive me.Yours Truly, Setera DCOregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is tofoster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listservemembers will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However,it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, orotherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his orher consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Dear Colleagues; Again, not to debate Dr. Setera but of course to correct him I will respond to this most recent post. First, the program was called the " Chiropractor of the Day " for rather obvious reasons. The " Doctor of the Day " program was the old Oregon Medical Association's program that the CAO discovered had died on the vine due to lack of interest by the OMA's member-doctors. The CAO saw an opportunity so we lobbied each committee member prior to my testifying in front of the " Legislative Administration Committee " on April 6, 2004 in hopes of gaining official approval of the CAO's " Chiropractor of the Day " program. The committee is Co-Chaired by the Senate President and the Speaker of the House and the committee voted unanimously to support our program. The CAO then organized some 66 doctors from around the state who agreed to volunteer their time and come to the Capitol on three separate occasions spread out between two or three months so the whole six month session would have coverage. I arranged for doctors to have appointments with their Senator's and State Representatives so they could speak to our chiropractic issues while at the capitol. Doctors were given a pager and a special parking pass (worth gold) that allowed them to park right next to the back Capitol stairs. Probably one of the most positive aspects of the CAO's " Chiropractor of the Day " program was the doctors either being able to sit next to their Senator on the Senate floor or in the side isle in the House chamber when they were announced as the " Chiropractor of the Day " by the Senate President or Speaker of the House. The CAO strategically recruited doctors we knew currently treated a Senator or Representative with this ending up being more positive PR for the profession than we could ever have imagined. What occurred which we didn't anticipate, was Senators and Representatives spontaneously standing and addressing the whole chamber and telling the entire chamber their " chiropractic success stories! " It was wonderfully unreal how positive this was for us relative to other Senators and Reps sitting in the chamber who had never gone to a chiropractic colleague. I recall in particular Rep. Greg standing and going on and on about how his chiropractor Dr. Schill (Sunriver) helped his lower back problem. In fact later that day I ran into " Speaker ProTem " Rep. Dennis a chiropractic patient as is his wife and 8 children. Dennis came up smiling saying, " geez Vern did you hear Greg this morning? You can't buy that kind of publicity!! " There were many other examples of this same wonderful PR for the profession including my own patient Rep. Jeff Kropf who announced me in the House chamber as the " Inaugural " Chiropractor of the Day and noted the CAO's brand new program. There were several very positive newspaper articles and yes a very few negative ones as well. But all in all it was a hugely popular and successful program for the profession, rather than something that somehow gave the profession a black eye. Why the program really ended: The truthful reason why the program ended was because the treatments in the chiropractic treatment room were free to the legislators and their staff. I don't have confirmation of this but it is my guess the Oregon Medical Association attacked the program complaining to the " Oregon Government Standards and Practices Commission " that since the chiropractic treatments had a value approx. $50 per session and were free they violated the " gift rule. " The gift rule states that legislators and/or their immediate staff members can't accept more than $100 in free gifts in any given year. Violation of this rule could result in large fines against the legislators. So they were smart to attack on this point since the program was so successful and getting so much positive notoriety. Funny how this was never an issue when the OMA had their " Doctor of the Day " program for years wherein medical doctors were giving free consultations, examinations, and treatments? This is the true reason the program ended. Dr. Saboe Indeed Sits on the Senate Floor Inappropriately: I had personally scheduled myself and the other 66 or so colleagues about two months out in advance of the start of the 2005 legislative session as per who would be the " Chiropractor of the Day " on which particular date and I had doctors scheduled for the entire session. At the time I was not the lobbyist nor was I being paid by the CAO, Mr. Marshall Coba was the CAO's paid " registered lobbyist. " However, one day Marshall asked me if I had registered as a lobbyist? I said " What? I'm not getting paid anything? " He said that, " ...Vern it doesn't matter if your paid or not if you spend more than 24 hours in one quarter in the capitol speaking to legislators (I was well over that) you must register with the state as a lobbyist. " I then said " ok how the heck do I do that? " He told me wherein I got registered as a " lobbyist. " Trouble is just four days after being officially registered as a " lobbyist " I was scheduled to be the " Chiropractor of the Day " and had arranged to sit next to my Senator, Sen. Morse on the Senate floor...recall this had been scheduled about two months earlier.... As I sat their " smiling from ear to ear " as the Senate President announced me and then Senator Morse rose and said some kind words I had no idea I was in fact violating Senate rules by sitting there...yikes! So Dr. Setera is correct lobbyist are not allowed on the Senate floor but, no I was not the " paid lobbyist " and had no clue. When I was informed of my mistake I immediately walked to the Senate President's office and spoke to Mr. Jack Dempsey " Director of Legislation " (I think that's Jack's title) telling him how sorry I was and that I had no idea. Jack said something to the effect, " Vern, don't worry about it we knew you did know, that you had no idea " and that was the end of it. So no colleagues, I was not " reprimanded " as the Senate President Sen. knew very well that I had no idea I was violating Senate rules and that it was in fact a very honest mistake. The " Chiropractor of the Day " program was ended because of the " gift rule " concerns being violated and possible fines if members and their staff went over two treatments, and not because of my inadvertent act. Anyone on this list-serve wishing to verify what I have just conveyed may contact Mr. Jack Dempsey in the Senate President's office by calling 503-986-1600 and then simply ask to be connected to Mr. Dempsey. Quickly and briefly (ya I know, I know) and again Dr. Setera the Dynamic Chiropractic article I wrote was about the CAO's no managed care in PIP bill Senate Bill 585 not the CAO's Workers' Comp Study Bill, House Bill 2588. ODOC did not provide nor did the CAO need any substantive help from ODOC's lobbyists for Senate Bill 585, which the CAO had first introduced in the 2003 session and had in fact worked on for over two years this again is why ODOC was not mentioned in the article. We will gladly give credit where credit is due...and with that in mind again ODOC's lobbyists Mason and particularly Bob Oleson and I did work a lot together in regards to the CAO's Workers' Comp Study Bill, HB-2588. Both Bob and were a pleasure to work with during last session and I again thank both of them and ODOC for their help. Lastly, Dr. Setera's testimony is public record and any colleague on the list-serve can obtain the same MLAC " Care Provider Sub-Committee audiotape as I and listen to and/or transcribe his testimony. Vern Saboe cc: Mason & Bob Oleson Saboe / Setera > Dear Doctors; Let us look at some Facts: > Do you recall the doctor of the day program at the capital during last > session? > Dr. Saboe got the program started, which was a good idea. However > during the session Dr. Saboe as the registered and paid lobbyist for CAO was > introduced on the legislative floor as the doctor of the day that created a problem > because lobbyist are not allowed on the floor. As a result the doctor of the > day program was stopped and Dr. Saboe was reprimanded, do you recall Dr. Vern > the article is the Salem news pager? That created a negative issue for > Chiropractic, but the entire ODOC legislative team including our lobbyists > Mason and bob Orson to do a lot of damage control to save the session. Do you > recall all our help? > > Dr. Saboe I have a copy of your post dated August 6, 2005, Thanking ODOC for > all their help. I have a copy on the December 29.2005 post again thanking > ODOC for all our help. You were told by me that our lobbyists were at your > disposal at no cost to CAO and us used them a lot throught the session. > > Many ODOC members spent a great deal of time in Salem, on their own dime. > > De. Saboe do you recall that there was a joint agreement between ODOC and > CAO? Do you recall the meeting is Salem when it was passed our and both > associates excepted the terms? I have a copy if you want on I will send it to you. > The part that that CAO did not live up to was the one about joint publications. > > Now, I cannot prove what you stated to me on the phone during our last > conversation, but if you recall I told you if CAO wanted to work with ODOC in the > future CAO has to straighten our this problem about not giving us some credit. > At that time you stated CAO was not interested in working with us. You went > on to say that ODOC did not do enough work during the last session to deserve > any credit in our publications. > > Now Doctors who are reading this is that fair? > > Dr. Saboe is telling everyone that I, as a member of ODOC, is trying to limit > our treatment rights within worker comp. I have Been political active sense > 1977 and at no time have I ever stated that before and legislative body. MLAC > knows we want full attending status. I stated we would love to have that, > but if they would not give us our status back at least extend the current > restrictions to 24 and 90. I have just learned to day the January MLAC hearing was > recorded and I am trying to get a copy of my testimony. Now we will see who > is the liar. > > I am sorry DR. that you have to put up with my ---- but a lot is a > stake for all doctors of Chiropractic in Oregon. ODOC one again will introduced > two bills that will make a difference, we need your help. I am Dr. Vern > Saboe, I need your help. Our profession needs to work together on these issues. > The Time is now, come join us and together we can make history. > > One last point I am not a good at using this key board and some time my > spelling is not best but you will just have to overlook that and forgive me. > > Yours Truly, > > Setera DC > > > OregonDCs rules: > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated. > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Vern, Thank you for being so accurate and answering each of these arguments in a careful and verifiable manner. I have an answer now to the 'who will we believe' question posed by Dr Setera 2 or 3 days ago. Colwell, DC Saboe / Setera > > > > Dear Doctors; Let us look at some Facts: > > Do you recall the doctor of the day program at the capital during last > > session? > > Dr. Saboe got the program started, which was a good idea. However > > during the session Dr. Saboe as the registered and paid lobbyist for CAO > was > > introduced on the legislative floor as the doctor of the day that created > a problem > > because lobbyist are not allowed on the floor. As a result the doctor of > the > > day program was stopped and Dr. Saboe was reprimanded, do you recall Dr. > Vern > > the article is the Salem news pager? That created a negative issue for > > Chiropractic, but the entire ODOC legislative team including our lobbyists > > > Mason and bob Orson to do a lot of damage control to save the session. Do > you > > recall all our help? > > > > Dr. Saboe I have a copy of your post dated August 6, 2005, Thanking ODOC > for > > all their help. I have a copy on the December 29.2005 post again thanking > > ODOC for all our help. You were told by me that our lobbyists were at > your > > disposal at no cost to CAO and us used them a lot throught the session. > > > > Many ODOC members spent a great deal of time in Salem, on their own dime. > > > > De. Saboe do you recall that there was a joint agreement between ODOC and > > CAO? Do you recall the meeting is Salem when it was passed our and both > > associates excepted the terms? I have a copy if you want on I will send > it to you. > > The part that that CAO did not live up to was the one about joint > publications. > > > > Now, I cannot prove what you stated to me on the phone during our last > > conversation, but if you recall I told you if CAO wanted to work with ODOC > in the > > future CAO has to straighten our this problem about not giving us some > credit. > > At that time you stated CAO was not interested in working with us. You > went > > on to say that ODOC did not do enough work during the last session to > deserve > > any credit in our publications. > > > > Now Doctors who are reading this is that fair? > > > > Dr. Saboe is telling everyone that I, as a member of ODOC, is trying to > limit > > our treatment rights within worker comp. I have Been political active > sense > > 1977 and at no time have I ever stated that before and legislative body. > MLAC > > knows we want full attending status. I stated we would love to have that, > > but if they would not give us our status back at least extend the current > > restrictions to 24 and 90. I have just learned to day the January MLAC > hearing was > > recorded and I am trying to get a copy of my testimony. Now we will see > who > > is the liar. > > > > I am sorry DR. that you have to put up with my ---- but a lot is a > > stake for all doctors of Chiropractic in Oregon. ODOC one again will > introduced > > two bills that will make a difference, we need your help. I am Dr. Vern > > Saboe, I need your help. Our profession needs to work together on these > issues. > > The Time is now, come join us and together we can make history. > > > > One last point I am not a good at using this key board and some time my > > spelling is not best but you will just have to overlook that and forgive > me. > > > > Yours Truly, > > > > Setera DC > > > > > > OregonDCs rules: > > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve > members will be tolerated. > > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. > > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. > However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, > or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his > or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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