RE: Listserve member removed for forwarding e-mail

[Guest guest]

DEar Colleagues,

If anyone has any knowledge or evidence of DME physicians violating the rules of the list-serve, please forward information to Dr. Freeman.

Thanks,

Don White,RN, DC

[Guest guest]

Bad move on Dave's part.

One of the terrors and joys of the internet is that misinformation does not

survive like it once did. No matter which side of politics you fall on, the

speed with which the CBS news documents were debunked by internet bloggers

as astounding.

Why shouldn't we hear about a court case and the public information about

expert witnesses testimony? It is valuable information to help us know what

we might face in court and to shed light on important areas which need

supportive research. (i.e. Stroke risk/ lack of stroke risk from spinal

adjustments.)

BTW: Older members could shed some light on who Dr. Gatterman is and was. I

remember discussion of her in the 80's by field docs, as a luminary in the

chiro world who went on to Canada(?) to luminate there.

( E. Abrahamson, D.C.)

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

> From: " Dr. Freeman " <drmfreeman@...>

> Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:09:03 -0800

> " Oregon DCs (E-mail) " < >

> Subject: Listserve member removed for forwarding e-mail

>

> Docs,

> I am sorry to relate to you that I have had to remove an OregonDCs listserve

> member for forwarding an e-mail. I am even more sorry to tell you that the

> forwarded e-mail was one of mine, and that there may have been some

> malicious intent behind the forwarding. Some of you may recall that I wrote

> to the e-list about a malpractice case in which Steve Foreman DC was

> testifying for the defense. I wrote what his deposition testimony was

> regarding the standard of care in the case, although I did not specify which

> case I was talking about.

> Dave McTeague, the Executive Director of the Oregon Board of Chiropractic

> Examiners, who became a member of the OregonDCs e-list by special vote of

> the membership when the list was first formed in 1999, took it upon himself

> to forward the e-mail to 8 additional people, including at least one non-DC.

> Included in the list was former Oregon chiropractor Dr. Meridel Gatterman.

> Dr. Gatterman forwarded the e-mail to Steve Foreman, and he in turn sent it

> to the lawyer who is defending the case that is still in progress. The

> defense has now tried to introduce my e-mail to the trial for whatever

> reason.

> I am not concerned about the effect on the trial or the case, as I wrote

> about the case and Dr. Foreman's opinions truthfully. What concerns me is

> the fact that the Executive Director of the OBCE may have an agenda that he

> is pursuing by sharing what Oregon licentiates have been posting to each

> other with people who are not on the e-list despite the warning at the

> bottom of every OregonDCs e-mail that it is against the rules of the

> listserve to do so. My post was intended to prompt discussion about standard

> of care issues between colleagues; it was twisted into an opportunity to

> perhaps win brownie points with people who are unaffiliated with the

> listserve, or for some other motive. What is clear is that Mr. McTeague had

> to know that it was against the rules of the listserve to do what he did.

> I have come across other instances in which an e-mail was forwarded, but I

> have not seen it done knowingly or maliciously and have never had to remove

> a member for misconduct. Mr. McTeague has been removed from the OregonDCs

> roster because of this incident for the present time. Because this incident

> involves my own post and has come back to me in a way that I had not

> expected or desired (I didn't name the plaintiff or the defendants in the

> case to maintain their privacy) I don't think that I can be as objective as

> I might. I admit that I feel both angered and betrayed, as I had imagined

> that I got along fairly well with Dave in the past. Thus, if anyone thinks

> that he should be reinstated and that it was all just a misunderstanding,

> then please write to me personally.

> On the other hand, we all were paying Dave McTeague's salary at the time

> that he was doing something that he knew he shouldn't. Should the OBCE

> members be alerted to this?

> Please let me know your thoughts.

>

>

> D Freeman

>

>

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster

> communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will

> be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it

> is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise

> distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her

> consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

This adds a bit of a burden to the posting, accepting that what you

write in (basically) private communication might find it's way into

unintended places. I know, nothing online is private really, and

having to stand by what you've written is not an intolerably high

standard. But membership in this club is restricted for obvious

reasons - we all more or less speak the same specialized language and

share the same objectives of furthering our life work in the most

intelligent and humane way possible. To suddenly have a post be part

of something for which it was not intended is a shock. For those of us

who responded to your case study, it's not so bad; but for you as the

source, it creates an illusion of unprofessionalism.

Nothing could be further from the truth, it seems to me. You're not

seeing patients everyday and your curiosity about the thinking of field

docs as to protocol as described in the case study is simply

information gathering which is appropriate, although it's timeliness

would not have been a problem if list serve rules had been followed.

From what I saw from responses, your position at trial was reinforced.

Why did Dave pass these along? A task force from the Board could

gather information and make a recommendation to the forum. Or, it

could be answered on line in free exchange with anyone on the forum

chipping in who wanted, and the self-evidency of responses determining

direction. Or, it could be asked of several forum members to

communicate with Dave and make a recommendation. Or, Dave could

short-track this whole thing by making a statement to the forum in this

regard. I guess I would like more information before deciding on any

suspension from the list serve. While it's understandable why you

would be hurt and angry, those emotions don't always lead to clarity of

reality or wise decisions.

imho,

Sears

NW Portland

On Mar 6, 2006, at 1:09 PM, Dr. Freeman wrote:

> Docs,

> I am sorry to relate to you that I have had to remove an OregonDCs

> listserve

> member for forwarding an e-mail. I am even more sorry to tell you

> that the

> forwarded e-mail was one of mine, and that there may have been some

> malicious intent behind the forwarding. Some of you may recall that I

> wrote

> to the e-list about a malpractice case in which Steve Foreman DC was

> testifying for the defense. I wrote what his deposition testimony was

> regarding the standard of care in the case, although I did not

> specify which

> case I was talking about.

> Dave McTeague, the Executive Director of the Oregon Board of

> Chiropractic

> Examiners, who became a member of the OregonDCs e-list by special

> vote of

> the membership when the list was first formed in 1999, took it upon

> himself

> to forward the e-mail to 8 additional people, including at least one

> non-DC.

> Included in the list was former Oregon chiropractor Dr. Meridel

> Gatterman.

> Dr. Gatterman forwarded the e-mail to Steve Foreman, and he in turn

> sent it

> to the lawyer who is defending the case that is still in progress. The

> defense has now tried to introduce my e-mail to the trial for whatever

> reason.

> I am not concerned about the effect on the trial or the case, as I

> wrote

> about the case and Dr. Foreman's opinions truthfully. What concerns

> me is

> the fact that the Executive Director of the OBCE may have an agenda

> that he

> is pursuing by sharing what Oregon licentiates have been posting to

> each

> other with people who are not on the e-list despite the warning at the

> bottom of every OregonDCs e-mail that it is against the rules of the

> listserve to do so. My post was intended to prompt discussion about

> standard

> of care issues between colleagues; it was twisted into an opportunity

> to

> perhaps win brownie points with people who are unaffiliated with the

> listserve, or for some other motive. What is clear is that Mr.

> McTeague had

> to know that it was against the rules of the listserve to do what he

> did.

> I have come across other instances in which an e-mail was forwarded,

> but I

> have not seen it done knowingly or maliciously and have never had to

> remove

> a member for misconduct. Mr. McTeague has been removed from the

> OregonDCs

> roster because of this incident for the present time. Because this

> incident

> involves my own post and has come back to me in a way that I had not

> expected or desired (I didn't name the plaintiff or the defendants in

> the

> case to maintain their privacy) I don't think that I can be as

> objective as

> I might. I admit that I feel both angered and betrayed, as I had

> imagined

> that I got along fairly well with Dave in the past. Thus, if anyone

> thinks

> that he should be reinstated and that it was all just a

> misunderstanding,

> then please write to me personally.

> On the other hand, we all were paying Dave McTeague's salary at the

> time

> that he was doing something that he knew he shouldn't. Should the OBCE

> members be alerted to this?

> Please let me know your thoughts.

>

>

> D Freeman

>

>

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is

> to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on

> listserve members will be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.

> However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print,

> forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another

> member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers

> have been removed.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Leave him off the list permanently.

Is there any way we can removed him as Executioner (I mean...) Executive

Director of the OBCE?

Should we be surprised that the Board and other individuals may be working

against the profession from the inside? Hardly.

M. s, D.C.

Listserve member removed for forwarding e-mail

> Docs,

> I am sorry to relate to you that I have had to remove an OregonDCs

listserve

> member for forwarding an e-mail. I am even more sorry to tell you that the

> forwarded e-mail was one of mine, and that there may have been some

> malicious intent behind the forwarding. Some of you may recall that I

wrote

> to the e-list about a malpractice case in which Steve Foreman DC was

> testifying for the defense. I wrote what his deposition testimony was

> regarding the standard of care in the case, although I did not specify

which

> case I was talking about.

> Dave McTeague, the Executive Director of the Oregon Board of Chiropractic

> Examiners, who became a member of the OregonDCs e-list by special vote of

> the membership when the list was first formed in 1999, took it upon

himself

> to forward the e-mail to 8 additional people, including at least one

non-DC.

> Included in the list was former Oregon chiropractor Dr. Meridel Gatterman.

> Dr. Gatterman forwarded the e-mail to Steve Foreman, and he in turn sent

it

> to the lawyer who is defending the case that is still in progress. The

> defense has now tried to introduce my e-mail to the trial for whatever

> reason.

> I am not concerned about the effect on the trial or the case, as I wrote

> about the case and Dr. Foreman's opinions truthfully. What concerns me is

> the fact that the Executive Director of the OBCE may have an agenda that

he

> is pursuing by sharing what Oregon licentiates have been posting to each

> other with people who are not on the e-list despite the warning at the

> bottom of every OregonDCs e-mail that it is against the rules of the

> listserve to do so. My post was intended to prompt discussion about

standard

> of care issues between colleagues; it was twisted into an opportunity to

> perhaps win brownie points with people who are unaffiliated with the

> listserve, or for some other motive. What is clear is that Mr. McTeague

had

> to know that it was against the rules of the listserve to do what he did.

> I have come across other instances in which an e-mail was forwarded, but I

> have not seen it done knowingly or maliciously and have never had to

remove

> a member for misconduct. Mr. McTeague has been removed from the OregonDCs

> roster because of this incident for the present time. Because this

incident

> involves my own post and has come back to me in a way that I had not

> expected or desired (I didn't name the plaintiff or the defendants in the

> case to maintain their privacy) I don't think that I can be as objective

as

> I might. I admit that I feel both angered and betrayed, as I had imagined

> that I got along fairly well with Dave in the past. Thus, if anyone thinks

> that he should be reinstated and that it was all just a misunderstanding,

> then please write to me personally.

> On the other hand, we all were paying Dave McTeague's salary at the time

> that he was doing something that he knew he shouldn't. Should the OBCE

> members be alerted to this?

> Please let me know your thoughts.

>

>

> D Freeman

>

>

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve

members will be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.

However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward,

or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his

or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>

[Guest guest]

Docs,

Below is Dave McTeague's response to my earlier post. Let me know any further

thoughts. I am getting a divided response on what to do about this. I don't want

to turn this into a popularity or lack of popularity contest; I just want to do

the right thing by the listserve primarily, and Dave McTeague secondarily.

No permanent harm has been done by his actions, as far as I can tell, and his

motives don't seem particularly nefarious. I do have to question Meridel

Gatterman's role for the OBCE on the Patient Safety Seed Panel; there's no

question that her actions were malicious, both to myself and Dave McTeague.

Someone who is so anxious to stir up trouble for Oregon licentiates and Board

personnel perhaps does not belong on an OBCE panel.

As far as Dave goes, I am fine with having him back on the listserve with the

understanding that the policy against forwarding messages is one that must be

followed.

I think that after 7 years the OregonDCs e-list is ready for a new moderator.

Anyone interested?

Freeman

>

>Dr. Freeman,

>

>I apologize for the distress this has caused you since that certainly was not

my intention. It did not occur to me this would be sent along to someone else,

but it should have.

>

>The comment was shared with the doctors on the Patient Safety Seed Panel,

licensed Oregon chiropractors all, which is looking at the literature on

contraindications & complications, since this is a real life case currently

under discussion. I thought it might add to the discussion within that group

relative to practice recommendations and possibly standards of care.

>

>Also, in the way of full disclosure, I have also sent a few of the listserve

comments about the current CJ/CR rule proposals to the OBCE public members who

would not otherwise see the ongoing discourse on this topic. I suppose I'm also

in violation for including several of those comments in the OBCE board packet

sent out today. I thought the purpose of the listserve was to maximize

communication and discussion among Oregon chiropractors which is why we ran an

article about how to join the listserve in the last BackTalk.

>

>For the record, I have one agenda and that is the OBCE mission of public

protection and improving quality in the chiropractic profession.

>

>Please be kind enough to share this with the group. If you want to take me off

the list, I'm OK with that too.

>

>Dave McTeague, Ex. Dir., OBCE

>503-378-5816 ext. 23

>

>

>

>

>

>>>> " Dr. Freeman " <drmfreeman@...> 03/06/06 01:09PM >>>

>Docs,

>I am sorry to relate to you that I have had to remove an OregonDCs listserve

>member for forwarding an e-mail. I am even more sorry to tell you that the

>forwarded e-mail was one of mine, and that there may have been some

>malicious intent behind the forwarding. Some of you may recall that I wrote

>to the e-list about a malpractice case in which Steve Foreman DC was

>testifying for the defense. I wrote what his deposition testimony was

>regarding the standard of care in the case, although I did not specify which

>case I was talking about.

>Dave McTeague, the Executive Director of the Oregon Board of Chiropractic

>Examiners, who became a member of the OregonDCs e-list by special vote of

>the membership when the list was first formed in 1999, took it upon himself

>to forward the e-mail to 8 additional people, including at least one non-DC.

>Included in the list was former Oregon chiropractor Dr. Meridel Gatterman.

>Dr. Gatterman forwarded the e-mail to Steve Foreman, and he in turn sent it

>to the lawyer who is defending the case that is still in progress. The

>defense has now tried to introduce my e-mail to the trial for whatever

>reason.

>I am not concerned about the effect on the trial or the case, as I wrote

>about the case and Dr. Foreman's opinions truthfully. What concerns me is

>the fact that the Executive Director of the OBCE may have an agenda that he

>is pursuing by sharing what Oregon licentiates have been posting to each

>other with people who are not on the e-list despite the warning at the

>bottom of every OregonDCs e-mail that it is against the rules of the

>listserve to do so. My post was intended to prompt discussion about standard

>of care issues between colleagues; it was twisted into an opportunity to

>perhaps win brownie points with people who are unaffiliated with the

>listserve, or for some other motive. What is clear is that Mr. McTeague had

>to know that it was against the rules of the listserve to do what he did.

>I have come across other instances in which an e-mail was forwarded, but I

>have not seen it done knowingly or maliciously and have never had to remove

>a member for misconduct. Mr. McTeague has been removed from the OregonDCs

>roster because of this incident for the present time. Because this incident

>involves my own post and has come back to me in a way that I had not

>expected or desired (I didn't name the plaintiff or the defendants in the

>case to maintain their privacy) I don't think that I can be as objective as

>I might. I admit that I feel both angered and betrayed, as I had imagined

>that I got along fairly well with Dave in the past. Thus, if anyone thinks

>that he should be reinstated and that it was all just a misunderstanding,

>then please write to me personally.

>On the other hand, we all were paying Dave McTeague's salary at the time

>that he was doing something that he knew he shouldn't. Should the OBCE

>members be alerted to this?

>Please let me know your thoughts.

>

>

> D Freeman

>

>

[Guest guest]

Friends,

Mr. McTeague's explanation is credible, accepts responsibility for his

misactions with reasonable intent, and shows his remorse for the

results. I support his contention that the listserve could serve to

further communication with others not now part of this conversation. I

believe that he, and by extension the rest of us, have learned a lesson

from this and that we can move forward without further suspension of

Dave's participation. Indeed, his participation is a valuable part of

our work and we are better off with him well informed as to our

opinions.

Now the light turns to Dr. Gatterman. Why would she create the

appearance of acting as judge and jury by forwarding private opinions

to ongoing litigants? If she is able to explain this action in the

same straight ahead manner as Mr. McTeague, then we may be able to

decide on consequences. If she has nothing to say, then she should

have nothing to see from us as well.

, thank you for your efforts moderating this forum. The

moderators on the NYT weblogs had complete authority to rule with an

iron hand. Decisions were cut and executed and people were cut off

just by their say so.... Of course, in that forum you could just

rejoin under a different name since no one knew who the heck each other

were anyway. Here, moderating is like more of the same: we talk it

over and come to a decision - your role is kinda first among equals,

but no more. It needn't be a burden anymore than participating itself.

Your contributions are always welcome and helpful. I hope you'll be

able to continue that participation.

I learned these standards for speaking up years ago and continue to

find them helpful, for what it's worth:

Not everything we know can be spoken;

And what can be said may not be fit to the capacity of the person(s) to

whom it is spoken;

And, anything said to a fit person(s) may not be timely.

Sears

NW Portland

On Mar 6, 2006, at 9:36 PM, Dr. Freeman wrote:

> Docs,

> Below is Dave McTeague's response to my earlier post. Let me know any

> further thoughts. I am getting a divided response on what to do about

> this. I don't want to turn this into a popularity or lack of

> popularity contest; I just want to do the right thing by the listserve

> primarily, and Dave McTeague secondarily.

> No permanent harm has been done by his actions, as far as I can tell,

> and his motives don't seem particularly nefarious. I do have to

> question Meridel Gatterman's role for the OBCE on the Patient Safety

> Seed Panel; there's no question that her actions were malicious, both

> to myself and Dave McTeague. Someone who is so anxious to stir up

> trouble for Oregon licentiates and Board personnel perhaps does not

> belong on an OBCE panel.

> As far as Dave goes, I am fine with having him back on the listserve

> with the understanding that the policy against forwarding messages is

> one that must be followed.

> I think that after 7 years the OregonDCs e-list is ready for a new

> moderator. Anyone interested?

>

> Freeman

>

>

> >

> >Dr. Freeman,

> >

> >I apologize for the distress this has caused you since that

> certainly was not my intention. It did not occur to me this would be

> sent along to someone else, but it should have.

> >

> >The comment was shared with the doctors on the Patient Safety Seed

> Panel, licensed Oregon chiropractors all, which is looking at the

> literature on contraindications & complications, since this is a real

> life case currently under discussion. I thought it might add to the

> discussion within that group relative to practice recommendations and

> possibly standards of care.

> >

> >Also, in the way of full disclosure, I have also sent a few of the

> listserve comments about the current CJ/CR rule proposals to the OBCE

> public members who would not otherwise see the ongoing discourse on

> this topic. I suppose I'm also in violation for including several of

> those comments in the OBCE board packet sent out today.  I thought the

> purpose of the listserve was to maximize communication and discussion

> among Oregon chiropractors which is why we ran an article about how to

> join the listserve in the last BackTalk.

> >

> >For the record, I have one agenda and that is the OBCE mission of

> public protection and improving quality in the chiropractic

> profession.  

> >

> >Please be kind enough to share this with the group.  If you want to

> take me off the list, I'm OK with that too. 

> >

> >Dave McTeague, Ex. Dir., OBCE

> >503-378-5816 ext. 23

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >>>> " Dr. Freeman " <drmfreeman@...> 03/06/06

> 01:09PM >>>

> >Docs,

> >I am sorry to relate to you that I have had to remove an OregonDCs

> listserve

> >member for forwarding an e-mail. I am even more sorry to tell you

> that the

> >forwarded e-mail was one of mine, and that there may have been some

> >malicious intent behind the forwarding. Some of you may recall that

> I wrote

> >to the e-list about a malpractice case in which Steve Foreman DC was

> >testifying for the defense. I wrote what his deposition testimony was

> >regarding the standard of care in the case, although I did not

> specify which

> >case I was talking about.

> >Dave McTeague, the Executive Director of the Oregon Board of

> Chiropractic

> >Examiners, who became a member of the OregonDCs e-list by special

> vote of

> >the membership when the list was first formed in 1999, took it upon

> himself

> >to forward the e-mail to 8 additional people, including at least one

> non-DC.

> >Included in the list was former Oregon chiropractor Dr. Meridel

> Gatterman.

> >Dr. Gatterman forwarded the e-mail to Steve Foreman, and he in turn

> sent it

> >to the lawyer who is defending the case that is still in progress.

> The

> >defense has now tried to introduce my e-mail to the trial for

> whatever

> >reason.

> >I am not concerned about the effect on the trial or the case, as I

> wrote

> >about the case and Dr. Foreman's opinions truthfully. What concerns

> me is

> >the fact that the Executive Director of the OBCE may have an agenda

> that he

> >is pursuing by sharing what Oregon licentiates have been posting to

> each

> >other with people who are not on the e-list despite the warning at

> the

> >bottom of every OregonDCs e-mail that it is against the rules of the

> >listserve to do so. My post was intended to prompt discussion about

> standard

> >of care issues between colleagues; it was twisted into an

> opportunity to

> >perhaps win brownie points with people who are unaffiliated with the

> >listserve, or for some other motive. What is clear is that Mr.

> McTeague had

> >to know that it was against the rules of the listserve to do what he

> did.

> >I have come across other instances in which an e-mail was forwarded,

> but I

> >have not seen it done knowingly or maliciously and have never had to

> remove

> >a member for misconduct. Mr. McTeague has been removed from the

> OregonDCs

> >roster because of this incident for the present time. Because this

> incident

> >involves my own post and has come back to me in a way that I had not

> >expected or desired (I didn't name the plaintiff or the defendants

> in the

> >case to maintain their privacy) I don't think that I can be as

> objective as

> >I might. I admit that I feel both angered and betrayed, as I had

> imagined

> >that I got along fairly well with Dave in the past. Thus, if anyone

> thinks

> >that he should be reinstated and that it was all just a

> misunderstanding,

> >then please write to me personally.

> >On the other hand, we all were paying Dave McTeague's salary at the

> time

> >that he was doing something that he knew he shouldn't. Should the

> OBCE

> >members be alerted to this?

> >Please let me know your thoughts.

> >

> >

> > D Freeman

> >

> >

>

>

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is

> to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on

> listserve members will be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.

> However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print,

> forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another

> member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers

> have been removed.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]



Well said. I agree Dave is a very valuable resource and has provided many useful posts on the list serve, especially as per OBCE goings on. I also consider him a good friend and as such I would respectfully ask that you keep Dave on this list serve..

Thanks for your consideration,

Vern Saboe

Re: Re: Listserve member removed for forwarding e-mail

Friends,Mr. McTeague's explanation is credible, accepts responsibility for his misactions with reasonable intent, and shows his remorse for the results. I support his contention that the listserve could serve to further communication with others not now part of this conversation. I believe that he, and by extension the rest of us, have learned a lesson from this and that we can move forward without further suspension of Dave's participation. Indeed, his participation is a valuable part of our work and we are better off with him well informed as to our opinions.Now the light turns to Dr. Gatterman. Why would she create the appearance of acting as judge and jury by forwarding private opinions to ongoing litigants? If she is able to explain this action in the same straight ahead manner as Mr. McTeague, then we may be able to decide on consequences. If she has nothing to say, then she should have nothing to see from us as well., thank you for your efforts moderating this forum. The moderators on the NYT weblogs had complete authority to rule with an iron hand. Decisions were cut and executed and people were cut off just by their say so.... Of course, in that forum you could just rejoin under a different name since no one knew who the heck each other were anyway. Here, moderating is like more of the same: we talk it over and come to a decision - your role is kinda first among equals, but no more. It needn't be a burden anymore than participating itself. Your contributions are always welcome and helpful. I hope you'll be able to continue that participation.I learned these standards for speaking up years ago and continue to find them helpful, for what it's worth:Not everything we know can be spoken;And what can be said may not be fit to the capacity of the person(s) to whom it is spoken;And, anything said to a fit person(s) may not be timely. SearsNW PortlandOn Mar 6, 2006, at 9:36 PM, Dr. Freeman wrote:

Docs,Below is Dave McTeague's response to my earlier post. Let me know any further thoughts. I am getting a divided response on what to do about this. I don't want to turn this into a popularity or lack of popularity contest; I just want to do the right thing by the listserve primarily, and Dave McTeague secondarily.No permanent harm has been done by his actions, as far as I can tell, and his motives don't seem particularly nefarious. I do have to question Meridel Gatterman's role for the OBCE on the Patient Safety Seed Panel; there's no question that her actions were malicious, both to myself and Dave McTeague. Someone who is so anxious to stir up trouble for Oregon licentiates and Board personnel perhaps does not belong on an OBCE panel.As far as Dave goes, I am fine with having him back on the listserve with the understanding that the policy against forwarding messages is one that must be followed.I think that after 7 years the OregonDCs e-list is ready for a new moderator. Anyone interested? Freeman>>Dr. Freeman,>>I apologize for the distress this has caused you since that certainly was not my intention. It did not occur to me this would be sent along to someone else, but it should have. >>The comment was shared with the doctors on the Patient Safety Seed Panel, licensed Oregon chiropractors all, which is looking at the literature on contraindications & complications, since this is a real life case currently under discussion. I thought it might add to the discussion within that group relative to practice recommendations and possibly standards of care. >>Also, in the way of full disclosure, I have also sent a few of the listserve comments about the current CJ/CR rule proposals to the OBCE public members who would not otherwise see the ongoing discourse on this topic. I suppose I'm also in violation for including several of those comments in the OBCE board packet sent out today. I thought the purpose of the listserve was to maximize communication and discussion among Oregon chiropractors which is why we ran an article about how to join the listserve in the last BackTalk. >>For the record, I have one agenda and that is the OBCE mission of public protection and improving quality in the chiropractic profession. >>Please be kind enough to share this with the group. If you want to take me off the list, I'm OK with that too. >>Dave McTeague, Ex. Dir., OBCE>503-378-5816 ext. 23 >>>>>>>>> "Dr. Freeman" <drmfreeman@...> 03/06/06 01:09PM >>>>Docs,>I am sorry to relate to you that I have had to remove an OregonDCs listserve>member for forwarding an e-mail. I am even more sorry to tell you that the>forwarded e-mail was one of mine, and that there may have been some>malicious intent behind the forwarding. Some of you may recall that I wrote>to the e-list about a malpractice case in which Steve Foreman DC was>testifying for the defense. I wrote what his deposition testimony was>regarding the standard of care in the case, although I did not specify which>case I was talking about.>Dave McTeague, the Executive Director of the Oregon Board of Chiropractic>Examiners, who became a member of the OregonDCs e-list by special vote of>the membership when the list was first formed in 1999, took it upon himself>to forward the e-mail to 8 additional people, including at least one non-DC.>Included in the list was former Oregon chiropractor Dr. Meridel Gatterman.>Dr. Gatterman forwarded the e-mail to Steve Foreman, and he in turn sent it>to the lawyer who is defending the case that is still in progress. The>defense has now tried to introduce my e-mail to the trial for whatever>reason.>I am not concerned about the effect on the trial or the case, as I wrote>about the case and Dr. Foreman's opinions truthfully. What concerns me is>the fact that the Executive Director of the OBCE may have an agenda that he>is pursuing by sharing what Oregon licentiates have been posting to each>other with people who are not on the e-list despite the warning at the>bottom of every OregonDCs e-mail that it is against the rules of the>listserve to do so. My post was intended to prompt discussion about standard>of care issues between colleagues; it was twisted into an opportunity to>perhaps win brownie points with people who are unaffiliated with the>listserve, or for some other motive. What is clear is that Mr. McTeague had>to know that it was against the rules of the listserve to do what he did.>I have come across other instances in which an e-mail was forwarded, but I>have not seen it done knowingly or maliciously and have never had to remove>a member for misconduct. Mr. McTeague has been removed from the OregonDCs>roster because of this incident for the present time. Because this incident>involves my own post and has come back to me in a way that I had not>expected or desired (I didn't name the plaintiff or the defendants in the>case to maintain their privacy) I don't think that I can be as objective as>I might. I admit that I feel both angered and betrayed, as I had imagined>that I got along fairly well with Dave in the past. Thus, if anyone thinks>that he should be reinstated and that it was all just a misunderstanding,>then please write to me personally.>On the other hand, we all were paying Dave McTeague's salary at the time>that he was doing something that he knew he shouldn't. Should the OBCE>members be alerted to this?>Please let me know your thoughts.>>> D Freeman> >OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

New Rule

Those violating the "no-forward provision" are subject to a one-year suspension, $1000 fine, 100 hours of community service and must submit to daily high-colonics for 30 days (31 days if the violation occurs in Jaunuary, March, May, July, August, October, or December) to promote clear, rational thinking.

Dr. Ray

-------------- Original message -------------- From: "Dr. Freeman" <drmfreeman@...> Docs,I am sorry to relate to you that I have had to remove an OregonDCs listservemember for forwarding an e-mail. I am even more sorry to tell you that theforwarded e-mail was one of mine, and that there may have been somemalicious intent behind the forwarding. Some of you may recall that I wroteto the e-list about a malpractice case in which Steve Foreman DC wastestifying for the defense. I wrote what his deposition testimony wasregarding the standard of care in the case, although I did not specify whichcase I was talking about.Dave McTeague, the Executive Director of the Oregon Board of ChiropracticExaminers, who became a member of the OregonDCs e-list by special vote ofthe membership when the list was first formed in 1999, took it upon himselfto forward the e-mail to 8 additional people, including at least one non-DC.Included in the list was former Oregon chiropractor Dr. Meridel Gatterman.Dr. Gatterman forwarded the e-mail to Steve Foreman, and he in turn sent itto the lawyer who is defending the case that is still in progress. Thedefense has now tried to introduce my e-mail to the trial for whateverreason.I am not concerned about the effect on the trial or the case, as I wroteabout the case and Dr. Foreman's opinions truthfully. What concerns me isthe fact that the Executive Director of the OBCE may have an agenda that heis pursuing by sharing what Oregon licentiates have been posting to eachother with people who are not on the e-list despite the warning at thebottom of every OregonDCs e-mail that it is against the rules of thelistserve to do so. My post was intended to prompt discussion about standardof care issues between colleagues; it was twisted into an opportunity toperhaps win brownie points with people who are unaffiliated with thelistserve, or for some other motive. What is clear is that Mr. McTeague hadto know that it was against the rules of the listserve to do what he did.I have come across other instances in which an e-mail was forwarded, but Ihave not seen it done knowingly or maliciously and have never had to removea member for misconduct. Mr. McTeague has been removed from the OregonDCsroster because of this incident for the present time. Because this incidentinvolves my own post and has come back to me in a way that I had notexpected or desired (I didn't name the plaintiff or the defendants in thecase to maintain their privacy) I don't think that I can be as objective asI might. I admit that I feel both angered and betrayed, as I had imaginedthat I got along fairly well with Dave in the past. Thus, if anyone thinksthat he should be reinstated and that it was all just a misunderstanding,then please write to me personally.On the other hand, we all were paying Dave McTeague's salary at the timethat he was doing something that he knew he shouldn't. Should the OBCEmembers be alerted to this?Please let me know your thoughts. D Freeman

[Guest guest]

Now that's funny ha!

Vern S.

Re: Listserve member removed for forwarding e-mail

New Rule

Those violating the "no-forward provision" are subject to a one-year suspension, $1000 fine, 100 hours of community service and must submit to daily high-colonics for 30 days (31 days if the violation occurs in Jaunuary, March, May, July, August, October, or December) to promote clear, rational thinking.

Dr. Ray

-------------- Original message -------------- From: "Dr. Freeman" <drmfreeman@...> Docs,I am sorry to relate to you that I have had to remove an OregonDCs listservemember for forwarding an e-mail. I am even more sorry to tell you that theforwarded e-mail was one of mine, and that there may have been somemalicious intent behind the forwarding. Some of you may recall that I wroteto the e-list about a malpractice case in which Steve Foreman DC wastestifying for the defense. I wrote what his deposition testimony wasregarding the standard of care in the case, although I did not specify whichcase I was talking about.Dave McTeague, the Executive Director of the Oregon Board of ChiropracticExaminers, who became a member of the OregonDCs e-list by special vote ofthe membership when the list was first formed in 1999, took it upon himselfto forward the e-mail to 8 additional people, including at least one non-DC.Included in the list was former Oregon chiropractor Dr. Meridel Gatterman.Dr. Gatterman forwarded the e-mail to Steve Foreman, and he in turn sent itto the lawyer who is defending the case that is still in progress. Thedefense has now tried to introduce my e-mail to the trial for whateverreason.I am not concerned about the effect on the trial or the case, as I wroteabout the case and Dr. Foreman's opinions truthfully. What concerns me isthe fact that the Executive Director of the OBCE may have an agenda that heis pursuing by sharing what Oregon licentiates have been posting to eachother with people who are not on the e-list despite the warning at thebottom of every OregonDCs e-mail that it is against the rules of thelistserve to do so. My post was intended to prompt discussion about standardof care issues between colleagues; it was twisted into an opportunity toperhaps win brownie points with people who are unaffiliated with thelistserve, or for some other motive. What is clear is that Mr. McTeague hadto know that it was against the rules of the listserve to do what he did.I have come across other instances in which an e-mail was forwarded, but Ihave not seen it done knowingly or maliciously and have never had to removea member for misconduct. Mr. McTeague has been removed from the OregonDCsroster because of this incident for the present time. Because this incidentinvolves my own post and has come back to me in a way that I had notexpected or desired (I didn't name the plaintiff or the defendants in thecase to maintain their privacy) I don't think that I can be as objective asI might. I admit that I feel both angered and betrayed, as I had imaginedthat I got along fairly well with Dave in the past. Thus, if anyone thinksthat he should be reinstated and that it was all just a misunderstanding,then please write to me personally.On the other hand, we all were paying Dave McTeague's salary at the timethat he was doing something that he knew he shouldn't. Should the OBCEmembers be alerted to this?Please let me know your thoughts. D Freeman

[Guest guest]

I figured there was no malevolence intended, however, it solidifies the

importance of adhering to the listserve rules about forwarding etc. . Hard

to control what someone does with it once you forward it.

Dr. ph Medlin D.C.

Spine Tree Chiropractic

1627 NE Alberta St. #6

Portland, OR 97211

Ph: 503-788-6800

c: 503-889-6204

Re: Listserve member removed for forwarding e-mail

> Docs,

> Below is Dave McTeague's response to my earlier post. Let me know any

> further thoughts. I am getting a divided response on what to do about

> this. I don't want to turn this into a popularity or lack of popularity

> contest; I just want to do the right thing by the listserve primarily, and

> Dave McTeague secondarily.

> No permanent harm has been done by his actions, as far as I can tell, and

> his motives don't seem particularly nefarious. I do have to question

> Meridel Gatterman's role for the OBCE on the Patient Safety Seed Panel;

> there's no question that her actions were malicious, both to myself and

> Dave McTeague. Someone who is so anxious to stir up trouble for Oregon

> licentiates and Board personnel perhaps does not belong on an OBCE panel.

> As far as Dave goes, I am fine with having him back on the listserve with

> the understanding that the policy against forwarding messages is one that

> must be followed.

> I think that after 7 years the OregonDCs e-list is ready for a new

> moderator. Anyone interested?

>

> Freeman

>

>

>>

>>Dr. Freeman,

>>

>>I apologize for the distress this has caused you since that certainly was

>>not my intention. It did not occur to me this would be sent along to

>>someone else, but it should have.

>>

>>The comment was shared with the doctors on the Patient Safety Seed Panel,

>>licensed Oregon chiropractors all, which is looking at the literature on

>>contraindications & complications, since this is a real life case

>>currently under discussion. I thought it might add to the discussion

>>within that group relative to practice recommendations and possibly

>>standards of care.

>>

>>Also, in the way of full disclosure, I have also sent a few of the

>>listserve comments about the current CJ/CR rule proposals to the OBCE

>>public members who would not otherwise see the ongoing discourse on this

>>topic. I suppose I'm also in violation for including several of those

>>comments in the OBCE board packet sent out today. I thought the purpose

>>of the listserve was to maximize communication and discussion among Oregon

>>chiropractors which is why we ran an article about how to join the

>>listserve in the last BackTalk.

>>

>>For the record, I have one agenda and that is the OBCE mission of public

>>protection and improving quality in the chiropractic profession.

>>

>>Please be kind enough to share this with the group. If you want to take

>>me off the list, I'm OK with that too.

>>

>>Dave McTeague, Ex. Dir., OBCE

>>503-378-5816 ext. 23

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>>>> " Dr. Freeman " <drmfreeman@...> 03/06/06 01:09PM >>>

>>Docs,

>>I am sorry to relate to you that I have had to remove an OregonDCs

>>listserve

>>member for forwarding an e-mail. I am even more sorry to tell you that the

>>forwarded e-mail was one of mine, and that there may have been some

>>malicious intent behind the forwarding. Some of you may recall that I

>>wrote

>>to the e-list about a malpractice case in which Steve Foreman DC was

>>testifying for the defense. I wrote what his deposition testimony was

>>regarding the standard of care in the case, although I did not specify

>>which

>>case I was talking about.

>>Dave McTeague, the Executive Director of the Oregon Board of Chiropractic

>>Examiners, who became a member of the OregonDCs e-list by special vote of

>>the membership when the list was first formed in 1999, took it upon

>>himself

>>to forward the e-mail to 8 additional people, including at least one

>>non-DC.

>>Included in the list was former Oregon chiropractor Dr. Meridel Gatterman.

>>Dr. Gatterman forwarded the e-mail to Steve Foreman, and he in turn sent

>>it

>>to the lawyer who is defending the case that is still in progress. The

>>defense has now tried to introduce my e-mail to the trial for whatever

>>reason.

>>I am not concerned about the effect on the trial or the case, as I wrote

>>about the case and Dr. Foreman's opinions truthfully. What concerns me is

>>the fact that the Executive Director of the OBCE may have an agenda that

>>he

>>is pursuing by sharing what Oregon licentiates have been posting to each

>>other with people who are not on the e-list despite the warning at the

>>bottom of every OregonDCs e-mail that it is against the rules of the

>>listserve to do so. My post was intended to prompt discussion about

>>standard

>>of care issues between colleagues; it was twisted into an opportunity to

>>perhaps win brownie points with people who are unaffiliated with the

>>listserve, or for some other motive. What is clear is that Mr. McTeague

>>had

>>to know that it was against the rules of the listserve to do what he did.

>>I have come across other instances in which an e-mail was forwarded, but I

>>have not seen it done knowingly or maliciously and have never had to

>>remove

>>a member for misconduct. Mr. McTeague has been removed from the OregonDCs

>>roster because of this incident for the present time. Because this

>>incident

>>involves my own post and has come back to me in a way that I had not

>>expected or desired (I didn't name the plaintiff or the defendants in the

>>case to maintain their privacy) I don't think that I can be as objective

>>as

>>I might. I admit that I feel both angered and betrayed, as I had imagined

>>that I got along fairly well with Dave in the past. Thus, if anyone thinks

>>that he should be reinstated and that it was all just a misunderstanding,

>>then please write to me personally.

>>On the other hand, we all were paying Dave McTeague's salary at the time

>>that he was doing something that he knew he shouldn't. Should the OBCE

>>members be alerted to this?

>>Please let me know your thoughts.

>>

>>

>> D Freeman

>>

>>

>

>

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

> foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve

> members will be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.

> However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward,

> or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without

> his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for keeping us updated on the e-mail forwarding issue. I agree with

Drs. Sears and Saboe. Dave McTeague is a good addition to the list, and he

apparently made an error in judgement in his decision to forward the e-mail.

I feel he should be allowed to return.

I think that future additions to the list should be informed about this

event and advised of the standing rules. It is perhaps easy for some to see

the content of this forum in light of a blog, with its contents available to

all. That's not the case.

I am curious as to the motivation of Dr. Gatterman and would be interested

to hear her reason for her actions if she would fill us in.

Per your position as moderator...I would hate to see you step down. You

provide erudite, even handed guidance to this forum. Your experience

provides a nice buffer to some of the polarized opinions that exist between

some of our members (guilty as charged here). Such guidance in this venue

is helpful to all of us to help to learn from each other. Thanks much for

your service.

Note new address!

W. Snell, D.C.

3942 SE Hawthorne Blvd.

Portland, OR 97214

Ph. 503-235-5484

Fax 503-235-3956

>From: " Vern Saboe " <vsaboe@...>

> " Dr. Freeman " <drmfreeman@...>,<dm.bones@...>

>CC:

><mvissers@...>,<megehee@...>,< >,<drjdm\

@comcast.net>,<AboWoman@...>,<grsdc@...>

>Subject: Re: Re: Listserve member removed for forwarding e-mail

>Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 07:32:34 -0800

>

>Well said. I agree Dave is a very valuable resource and has provided many

>useful posts on the list serve, especially as per OBCE goings on. I also

>consider him a good friend and as such I would respectfully ask that you

>keep Dave on this list serve..

>

>Thanks for your consideration,

>

>Vern Saboe

> Re: Re: Listserve member removed for forwarding

>e-mail

>

>

> Friends,

>

> Mr. McTeague's explanation is credible, accepts responsibility for his

>misactions with reasonable intent, and shows his remorse for the results. I

>support his contention that the listserve could serve to further

>communication with others not now part of this conversation. I believe that

>he, and by extension the rest of us, have learned a lesson from this and

>that we can move forward without further suspension of Dave's

>participation. Indeed, his participation is a valuable part of our work and

>we are better off with him well informed as to our opinions.

>

> Now the light turns to Dr. Gatterman. Why would she create the

>appearance of acting as judge and jury by forwarding private opinions to

>ongoing litigants? If she is able to explain this action in the same

>straight ahead manner as Mr. McTeague, then we may be able to decide on

>consequences. If she has nothing to say, then she should have nothing to

>see from us as well.

>

> , thank you for your efforts moderating this forum. The

>moderators on the NYT weblogs had complete authority to rule with an iron

>hand. Decisions were cut and executed and people were cut off just by their

>say so.... Of course, in that forum you could just rejoin under a different

>name since no one knew who the heck each other were anyway. Here,

>moderating is like more of the same: we talk it over and come to a decision

>- your role is kinda first among equals, but no more. It needn't be a

>burden anymore than participating itself. Your contributions are always

>welcome and helpful. I hope you'll be able to continue that participation.

>

> I learned these standards for speaking up years ago and continue to find

>them helpful, for what it's worth:

> Not everything we know can be spoken;

> And what can be said may not be fit to the capacity of the person(s) to

>whom it is spoken;

> And, anything said to a fit person(s) may not be timely.

>

> Sears

> NW Portland

>

> On Mar 6, 2006, at 9:36 PM, Dr. Freeman wrote:

>

>

> Docs,

> Below is Dave McTeague's response to my earlier post. Let me know any

>further thoughts. I am getting a divided response on what to do about this.

>I don't want to turn this into a popularity or lack of popularity contest;

>I just want to do the right thing by the listserve primarily, and Dave

>McTeague secondarily.

> No permanent harm has been done by his actions, as far as I can tell,

>and his motives don't seem particularly nefarious. I do have to question

>Meridel Gatterman's role for the OBCE on the Patient Safety Seed Panel;

>there's no question that her actions were malicious, both to myself and

>Dave McTeague. Someone who is so anxious to stir up trouble for Oregon

>licentiates and Board personnel perhaps does not belong on an OBCE panel.

> As far as Dave goes, I am fine with having him back on the listserve

>with the understanding that the policy against forwarding messages is one

>that must be followed.

> I think that after 7 years the OregonDCs e-list is ready for a new

>moderator. Anyone interested?

>

> Freeman

>

>

> >

> >Dr. Freeman,

> >

> >I apologize for the distress this has caused you since that certainly

>was not my intention. It did not occur to me this would be sent along to

>someone else, but it should have.

> >

> >The comment was shared with the doctors on the Patient Safety Seed

>Panel, licensed Oregon chiropractors all, which is looking at the

>literature on contraindications & complications, since this is a real life

>case currently under discussion. I thought it might add to the discussion

>within that group relative to practice recommendations and possibly

>standards of care.

> >

> >Also, in the way of full disclosure, I have also sent a few of the

>listserve comments about the current CJ/CR rule proposals to the OBCE

>public members who would not otherwise see the ongoing discourse on this

>topic. I suppose I'm also in violation for including several of those

>comments in the OBCE board packet sent out today. I thought the purpose of

>the listserve was to maximize communication and discussion among Oregon

>chiropractors which is why we ran an article about how to join the

>listserve in the last BackTalk.

> >

> >For the record, I have one agenda and that is the OBCE mission of

>public protection and improving quality in the chiropractic profession.

> >

> >Please be kind enough to share this with the group. If you want to

>take me off the list, I'm OK with that too.

> >

> >Dave McTeague, Ex. Dir., OBCE

> >503-378-5816 ext. 23

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >>>> " Dr. Freeman " <drmfreeman@...> 03/06/06 01:09PM

> >>>

> >Docs,

> >I am sorry to relate to you that I have had to remove an OregonDCs

>listserve

> >member for forwarding an e-mail. I am even more sorry to tell you

>that the

> >forwarded e-mail was one of mine, and that there may have been some

> >malicious intent behind the forwarding. Some of you may recall that I

>wrote

> >to the e-list about a malpractice case in which Steve Foreman DC was

> >testifying for the defense. I wrote what his deposition testimony was

> >regarding the standard of care in the case, although I did not

>specify which

> >case I was talking about.

> >Dave McTeague, the Executive Director of the Oregon Board of

>Chiropractic

> >Examiners, who became a member of the OregonDCs e-list by special

>vote of

> >the membership when the list was first formed in 1999, took it upon

>himself

> >to forward the e-mail to 8 additional people, including at least one

>non-DC.

> >Included in the list was former Oregon chiropractor Dr. Meridel

>Gatterman.

> >Dr. Gatterman forwarded the e-mail to Steve Foreman, and he in turn

>sent it

> >to the lawyer who is defending the case that is still in progress.

>The

> >defense has now tried to introduce my e-mail to the trial for

>whatever

> >reason.

> >I am not concerned about the effect on the trial or the case, as I

>wrote

> >about the case and Dr. Foreman's opinions truthfully. What concerns

>me is

> >the fact that the Executive Director of the OBCE may have an agenda

>that he

> >is pursuing by sharing what Oregon licentiates have been posting to

>each

> >other with people who are not on the e-list despite the warning at

>the

> >bottom of every OregonDCs e-mail that it is against the rules of the

> >listserve to do so. My post was intended to prompt discussion about

>standard

> >of care issues between colleagues; it was twisted into an opportunity

>to

> >perhaps win brownie points with people who are unaffiliated with the

> >listserve, or for some other motive. What is clear is that Mr.

>McTeague had

> >to know that it was against the rules of the listserve to do what he

>did.

> >I have come across other instances in which an e-mail was forwarded,

>but I

> >have not seen it done knowingly or maliciously and have never had to

>remove

> >a member for misconduct. Mr. McTeague has been removed from the

>OregonDCs

> >roster because of this incident for the present time. Because this

>incident

> >involves my own post and has come back to me in a way that I had not

> >expected or desired (I didn't name the plaintiff or the defendants in

>the

> >case to maintain their privacy) I don't think that I can be as

>objective as

> >I might. I admit that I feel both angered and betrayed, as I had

>imagined

> >that I got along fairly well with Dave in the past. Thus, if anyone

>thinks

> >that he should be reinstated and that it was all just a

>misunderstanding,

> >then please write to me personally.

> >On the other hand, we all were paying Dave McTeague's salary at the

>time

> >that he was doing something that he knew he shouldn't. Should the

>OBCE

> >members be alerted to this?

> >Please let me know your thoughts.

> >

> >

> > D Freeman

> >

> >

>

>

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is

>to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve

>members will be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.

>However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward,

>or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without

>his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with sharon. Joyce Patten, DC Ashland, OR

Listserve member removed for forwarding e-mail

Regardless of explanation, anything forwarded from the list serve is to have

all identifying markers of the author removed. I also don't think anything

published here is free information for others ,including seed panel members

or even other board members, especially if it is a sensitive subject. I have

asked for mean spirited contributors to be removed from the list serve

before but they merely got a warning and remain. I don't believe that Dave's

intent was mean so for his forgetfulness about the rules I think he should

remain. I don't know about 'no harm' being done, especially if the

attorney's in the case are trying to use it. Also, it could hurt Dr. Freeman

in ways we don't know yet. I would ask that Dr. Gatterman be removed from

anything to do with Oregon Chiropractic as she knew full well that sending

this to a named person in Dr. Freeman's email would cause harm more so since

Dr. Freeman was free with his descriptors of him. Passion rules at times. I

am going to forward this to Dave. I feel that his insight during some of our

confusing issues are valuable. He also makes a point to say 'hello' to me

when I appear at a meeting and for that he can't be all bad.

sharron fuchs dc

_____

[Guest guest]

Dr. Freeman,

You can't quit as moderator. Where else would we get vocabulary expanding

words like " nefarious " ? (Which I happen to know comes from the Greek words

" ne " meaning NOT, and " farious " meaning IRON, as in " I love these new

polyester suits. You can wear them right out of the dryer as they are

nefarious. " )

As imperfect as a medium as the OregonDC listserve is, it is still the best

exchange of ideas we have to date.

The " half-life " of those tasked with keeping volunteer organizations running

are often well intended but short. The moderator must be above all things,

consistent. You have proven yourself thus and by acclaim should be asked to

continue. (Besides, we voted you in for another 2 year term while you were

in the bathroom.)

( E. Abrahamson, D.C.)

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

> From: " Dr. Freeman " <drmfreeman@...>

> Reply- " Dr. Freeman " <drmfreeman@...>

> Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:36:59 -0800 (GMT-08:00)

> < >

> Cc: <AboWoman@...>, <mvissers@...>, <drjdm@...>,

> <grsdc@...>, <megehee@...>

> Subject: Re: Listserve member removed for forwarding e-mail

>

> Docs,

> Below is Dave McTeague's response to my earlier post. Let me know any further

> thoughts. I am getting a divided response on what to do about this. I don't

> want to turn this into a popularity or lack of popularity contest; I just want

> to do the right thing by the listserve primarily, and Dave McTeague

> secondarily.

> No permanent harm has been done by his actions, as far as I can tell, and his

> motives don't seem particularly nefarious. I do have to question Meridel

> Gatterman's role for the OBCE on the Patient Safety Seed Panel; there's no

> question that her actions were malicious, both to myself and Dave McTeague.

> Someone who is so anxious to stir up trouble for Oregon licentiates and Board

> personnel perhaps does not belong on an OBCE panel.

> As far as Dave goes, I am fine with having him back on the listserve with the

> understanding that the policy against forwarding messages is one that must be

> followed.

> I think that after 7 years the OregonDCs e-list is ready for a new moderator.

> Anyone interested?

>

> Freeman

>

>

>>

>> Dr. Freeman,

>>

>> I apologize for the distress this has caused you since that certainly was not

>> my intention. It did not occur to me this would be sent along to someone

>> else, but it should have.

>>

>> The comment was shared with the doctors on the Patient Safety Seed Panel,

>> licensed Oregon chiropractors all, which is looking at the literature on

>> contraindications & complications, since this is a real life case currently

>> under discussion. I thought it might add to the discussion within that group

>> relative to practice recommendations and possibly standards of care.

>>

>> Also, in the way of full disclosure, I have also sent a few of the listserve

>> comments about the current CJ/CR rule proposals to the OBCE public members

>> who would not otherwise see the ongoing discourse on this topic. I suppose

>> I'm also in violation for including several of those comments in the OBCE

>> board packet sent out today. I thought the purpose of the listserve was to

>> maximize communication and discussion among Oregon chiropractors which is why

>> we ran an article about how to join the listserve in the last BackTalk.

>>

>> For the record, I have one agenda and that is the OBCE mission of public

>> protection and improving quality in the chiropractic profession.

>>

>> Please be kind enough to share this with the group. If you want to take me

>> off the list, I'm OK with that too.

>>

>> Dave McTeague, Ex. Dir., OBCE

>> 503-378-5816 ext. 23

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>>>> " Dr. Freeman " <drmfreeman@...> 03/06/06 01:09PM >>>

>> Docs,

>> I am sorry to relate to you that I have had to remove an OregonDCs listserve

>> member for forwarding an e-mail. I am even more sorry to tell you that the

>> forwarded e-mail was one of mine, and that there may have been some

>> malicious intent behind the forwarding. Some of you may recall that I wrote

>> to the e-list about a malpractice case in which Steve Foreman DC was

>> testifying for the defense. I wrote what his deposition testimony was

>> regarding the standard of care in the case, although I did not specify which

>> case I was talking about.

>> Dave McTeague, the Executive Director of the Oregon Board of Chiropractic

>> Examiners, who became a member of the OregonDCs e-list by special vote of

>> the membership when the list was first formed in 1999, took it upon himself

>> to forward the e-mail to 8 additional people, including at least one non-DC.

>> Included in the list was former Oregon chiropractor Dr. Meridel Gatterman.

>> Dr. Gatterman forwarded the e-mail to Steve Foreman, and he in turn sent it

>> to the lawyer who is defending the case that is still in progress. The

>> defense has now tried to introduce my e-mail to the trial for whatever

>> reason.

>> I am not concerned about the effect on the trial or the case, as I wrote

>> about the case and Dr. Foreman's opinions truthfully. What concerns me is

>> the fact that the Executive Director of the OBCE may have an agenda that he

>> is pursuing by sharing what Oregon licentiates have been posting to each

>> other with people who are not on the e-list despite the warning at the

>> bottom of every OregonDCs e-mail that it is against the rules of the

>> listserve to do so. My post was intended to prompt discussion about standard

>> of care issues between colleagues; it was twisted into an opportunity to

>> perhaps win brownie points with people who are unaffiliated with the

>> listserve, or for some other motive. What is clear is that Mr. McTeague had

>> to know that it was against the rules of the listserve to do what he did.

>> I have come across other instances in which an e-mail was forwarded, but I

>> have not seen it done knowingly or maliciously and have never had to remove

>> a member for misconduct. Mr. McTeague has been removed from the OregonDCs

>> roster because of this incident for the present time. Because this incident

>> involves my own post and has come back to me in a way that I had not

>> expected or desired (I didn't name the plaintiff or the defendants in the

>> case to maintain their privacy) I don't think that I can be as objective as

>> I might. I admit that I feel both angered and betrayed, as I had imagined

>> that I got along fairly well with Dave in the past. Thus, if anyone thinks

>> that he should be reinstated and that it was all just a misunderstanding,

>> then please write to me personally.

>> On the other hand, we all were paying Dave McTeague's salary at the time

>> that he was doing something that he knew he shouldn't. Should the OBCE

>> members be alerted to this?

>> Please let me know your thoughts.

>>

>>

>> D Freeman

>>

>>

>

>

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster

> communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will

> be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it

> is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise

> distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her

> consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>

[Guest guest]

,

I hope you don't quit running the listserve, you have done us a

wonderful service, and I know that it involves time and work.

I appreciate all that you have done

Marc

Marc Heller, DC

mheller@...

www.MarcHellerDC.com

Dr. Freeman wrote:

> Docs,

> Below is Dave McTeague's response to my earlier post. Let me know any

> further thoughts. I am getting a divided response on what to do about

> this. I don't want to turn this into a popularity or lack of

> popularity contest; I just want to do the right thing by the listserve

> primarily, and Dave McTeague secondarily.

> No permanent harm has been done by his actions, as far as I can tell,

> and his motives don't seem particularly nefarious. I do have to

> question Meridel Gatterman's role for the OBCE on the Patient Safety

> Seed Panel; there's no question that her actions were malicious, both

> to myself and Dave McTeague. Someone who is so anxious to stir up

> trouble for Oregon licentiates and Board personnel perhaps does not

> belong on an OBCE panel.

> As far as Dave goes, I am fine with having him back on the listserve

> with the understanding that the policy against forwarding messages is

> one that must be followed.

> I think that after 7 years the OregonDCs e-list is ready for a new

> moderator. Anyone interested?

>

> Freeman

>

>

> >

> >Dr. Freeman,

> >

> >I apologize for the distress this has caused you since that certainly

> was not my intention. It did not occur to me this would be sent along

> to someone else, but it should have.

> >

> >The comment was shared with the doctors on the Patient Safety Seed

> Panel, licensed Oregon chiropractors all, which is looking at the

> literature on contraindications & complications, since this is a real

> life case currently under discussion. I thought it might add to the

> discussion within that group relative to practice recommendations and

> possibly standards of care.

> >

> >Also, in the way of full disclosure, I have also sent a few of the

> listserve comments about the current CJ/CR rule proposals to the OBCE

> public members who would not otherwise see the ongoing discourse on

> this topic. I suppose I'm also in violation for including several of

> those comments in the OBCE board packet sent out today. I thought the

> purpose of the listserve was to maximize communication and discussion

> among Oregon chiropractors which is why we ran an article about how to

> join the listserve in the last BackTalk.

> >

> >For the record, I have one agenda and that is the OBCE mission of

> public protection and improving quality in the chiropractic profession.

> >

> >Please be kind enough to share this with the group. If you want to

> take me off the list, I'm OK with that too.

> >

> >Dave McTeague, Ex. Dir., OBCE

> >503-378-5816 ext. 23

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >>>> " Dr. Freeman " <drmfreeman@...> 03/06/06 01:09PM >>>

> >Docs,

> >I am sorry to relate to you that I have had to remove an OregonDCs

> listserve

> >member for forwarding an e-mail. I am even more sorry to tell you

> that the

> >forwarded e-mail was one of mine, and that there may have been some

> >malicious intent behind the forwarding. Some of you may recall that I

> wrote

> >to the e-list about a malpractice case in which Steve Foreman DC was

> >testifying for the defense. I wrote what his deposition testimony was

> >regarding the standard of care in the case, although I did not

> specify which

> >case I was talking about.

> >Dave McTeague, the Executive Director of the Oregon Board of Chiropractic

> >Examiners, who became a member of the OregonDCs e-list by special vote of

> >the membership when the list was first formed in 1999, took it upon

> himself

> >to forward the e-mail to 8 additional people, including at least one

> non-DC.

> >Included in the list was former Oregon chiropractor Dr. Meridel

> Gatterman.

> >Dr. Gatterman forwarded the e-mail to Steve Foreman, and he in turn

> sent it

> >to the lawyer who is defending the case that is still in progress. The

> >defense has now tried to introduce my e-mail to the trial for whatever

> >reason.

> >I am not concerned about the effect on the trial or the case, as I wrote

> >about the case and Dr. Foreman's opinions truthfully. What concerns me is

> >the fact that the Executive Director of the OBCE may have an agenda

> that he

> >is pursuing by sharing what Oregon licentiates have been posting to each

> >other with people who are not on the e-list despite the warning at the

> >bottom of every OregonDCs e-mail that it is against the rules of the

> >listserve to do so. My post was intended to prompt discussion about

> standard

> >of care issues between colleagues; it was twisted into an opportunity to

> >perhaps win brownie points with people who are unaffiliated with the

> >listserve, or for some other motive. What is clear is that Mr.

> McTeague had

> >to know that it was against the rules of the listserve to do what he did.

> >I have come across other instances in which an e-mail was forwarded,

> but I

> >have not seen it done knowingly or maliciously and have never had to

> remove

> >a member for misconduct. Mr. McTeague has been removed from the OregonDCs

> >roster because of this incident for the present time. Because this

> incident

> >involves my own post and has come back to me in a way that I had not

> >expected or desired (I didn't name the plaintiff or the defendants in the

> >case to maintain their privacy) I don't think that I can be as

> objective as

> >I might. I admit that I feel both angered and betrayed, as I had imagined

> >that I got along fairly well with Dave in the past. Thus, if anyone

> thinks

> >that he should be reinstated and that it was all just a misunderstanding,

> >then please write to me personally.

> >On the other hand, we all were paying Dave McTeague's salary at the time

> >that he was doing something that he knew he shouldn't. Should the OBCE

> >members be alerted to this?

> >Please let me know your thoughts.

> >

> >

> > D Freeman

> >

> >

>

>

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is

> to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on

> listserve members will be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.

> However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print,

> forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another

> member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers

> have been removed.

>

>

>

>