Guest guest Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 OR DCs, A friend who works at one of the military treatment facilities shared this with me. He is on the front lines of EB practice of chiropractic. A. Simpson, DC ………here is a scenario that I encountered today. It is difficult enough to break into an integrated practice setting, but cases like this make it more of a challenge. It is imperative we work collectively to improve the care offered our patients. A 29 year old Active Duty female presented today with upper and low back pain. She was referred by her Primary Care Manager to me for an evaluation. Long story-short: She has been under the care of a civilian chiropractor since June of last year, paying out of pocket. Now, there was no specific trauma, the upper back 'tightness' and low back pain, " just came on " while she was on sea duty. She indicated that she feels better since taking chiropractic treatments, but she " can't afford to keep going " . When I asked when the last time she took a treatment was, she told me last week. Come to find out, she started out last June, at 3X/week for 3 months, 2X/week for two months, then 1X/week since. She says the chiropractor told her that it may take years to make total correction of the spinal problems! I don't have a problem meeting with the Orthopedic Surgeons at our hospital and discussing cases. I look forward to working with the Neurologist and Family Practice doctors on NMS cases. It takes time to educate them, and gain their confidence. Likewise, I have learned a lot from them, and look forward to our weekly meetings. What I don't look forward to is patients coming to their medical doctors with stories like this, then being referred to me. Now my challenge becomes bigger. Talk about shooting ourselves in the foot! Every week, the topic of Evidence Based Medicine is brought up. The Orthos and FP providers are constantly doing literature searches to support the care they offer patients. They discuss cases between themselves. Can we say that about ourselves? How can we achieve " cultural authority " by providing care (?) like I just described. It kind of makes me want to get out my old bumper sticker that reads " I'm Mad Too, Eddie " . Thanks for letting me vent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Chuck: To your brilliant friend on the " front lines " of so-called " evidence-based practice " . I would say: Hey genius- What was the civilian doctor's diagnosis/assessment? (answer: you don't know.) What was the civilian doctor's approach/justification/rationale? (answer: you dont know) What was the subjective and/or objective outcome measure that the civilian doc was using? (answer, you don't know) What was the goal/intent of the care? (answer: you don't know) Was progress being made? (answer: you don't know) I sure am glad we have you " representin' " to show those military medicos how smart we are. J. www.springbrookclinic.com Springbrook Chiropractic & Natural Health Center www.cspine.org Home of the Oregon Chiropractic Forums and Online Calendar EB chiropractic OR DCs, A friend who works at one of the military treatment facilities shared this with me. He is on the front lines of EB practice of chiropractic. A. Simpson, DC ???here is a scenario that I encountered today. It is difficult enough to break into an integrated practice setting, but cases like this make it more of a challenge. It is imperative we work collectively to improve the care offered our patients. A 29 year old Active Duty female presented today with upper and low back pain. She was referred by her Primary Care Manager to me for an evaluation. Long story-short: She has been under the care of a civilian chiropractor since June of last year, paying out of pocket. Now, there was no specific trauma, the upper back 'tightness' and low back pain, " just came on " while she was on sea duty. She indicated that she feels better since taking chiropractic treatments, but she " can't afford to keep going " . When I asked when the last time she took a treatment was, she told me last week. Come to find out, she started out last June, at 3X/week for 3 months, 2X/week for two months, then 1X/week since. She says the chiropractor told her that it may take years to make total correction of the spinal problems! I don't have a problem meeting with the Orthopedic Surgeons at our hospital and discussing cases. I look forward to working with the Neurologist and Family Practice doctors on NMS cases. It takes time to educate them, and gain their confidence. Likewise, I have learned a lot from them, and look forward to our weekly meetings. What I don't look forward to is patients coming to their medical doctors with stories like this, then being referred to me. Now my challenge becomes bigger. Talk about shooting ourselves in the foot! Every week, the topic of Evidence Based Medicine is brought up. The Orthos and FP providers are constantly doing literature searches to support the care they offer patients. They discuss cases between themselves. Can we say that about ourselves? How can we achieve " cultural authority " by providing care (?) like I just described. It kind of makes me want to get out my old bumper sticker that reads " I'm Mad Too, Eddie " . Thanks for letting me vent. OregonDCs rules: 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated. 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 , I was thinking the same thing. Seems pretty arrogant of the military DC to tear down the civilian DC without getting their side of the story. It all comes down to the vast differences in what we do as far as technique and goals of care. Some docs think they can completely "fix" someone's spine in 6 visits. Others think it takes 1-2 years to completely fix someone. Of course they are talking about fixing different things. Not defining and communicating these differences properly can lead to some big problems in our profession. Jamey Dyson Salem EB chiropractic OR DCs, A friend who works at one of the military treatment facilities shared this with me. He is on the front lines of EB practice of chiropractic. A. Simpson, DC???here is a scenario that I encountered today. It is difficult enough to break intoan integrated practice setting, but cases like this make it more of a challenge. It is imperative we work collectively to improve the care offeredour patients. A 29 year old Active Duty female presented today with upper and low back pain. She was referred by her Primary Care Manager to me for an evaluation. Long story-short: She has been under the care of a civilian chiropractor since June of last year, paying out of pocket. Now, there was no specific trauma, the upper back 'tightness' and low back pain, "just came on" whileshe was on sea duty. She indicated that she feels better since taking chiropractic treatments, but she "can't afford to keep going". When I asked when the last time she took a treatment was, she told me last week. Come to find out, she started out last June, at 3X/week for 3 months, 2X/week for two months, then 1X/week since. She says the chiropractor told her that itmay take years to make total correction of the spinal problems! I don't have a problem meeting with the Orthopedic Surgeons at our hospital and discussing cases. I look forward to working with the Neurologist and Family Practice doctors on NMS cases. It takes time to educate them, and gain their confidence. Likewise, I have learned a lot from them, and look forward to our weekly meetings. What I don't look forward to is patients coming to their medical doctors with stories like this, then being referred to me. Now my challenge becomes bigger. Talk about shooting ourselves in thefoot! Every week, the topic of Evidence Based Medicine is brought up. The Orthos and FP providers are constantly doing literature searches to support the care they offer patients. They discuss cases between themselves. Can we say that about ourselves? How can we achieve "cultural authority" by providingcare (?) like I just described. It kind of makes me want to get out my old bumper sticker that reads "I'mMad Too, Eddie".Thanks for letting me vent. OregonDCs rules: 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 I score one for big . Great shot ! Schneider Portland ----- EB chiropractic > > OR DCs, > > > > A friend who works at one of the military treatment facilities shared >this with me. He is on the front lines of EB practice of chiropractic. > > > > A. Simpson, DC > > > > ???here > is a scenario that I encountered today. It is difficult enough to >break into > an integrated practice setting, but cases like this make it more of a > challenge. It is imperative we work collectively to improve the care >offered > our patients. > > A 29 year old Active Duty female presented today with upper and low >back > pain. She was referred by her Primary Care Manager to me for an >evaluation. > Long story-short: She has been under the care of a civilian >chiropractor > since June of last year, paying out of pocket. Now, there was no >specific > trauma, the upper back 'tightness' and low back pain, " just came on " >while > she was on sea duty. She indicated that she feels better since taking > chiropractic treatments, but she " can't afford to keep going " . When I >asked > when the last time she took a treatment was, she told me last week. >Come to > find out, she started out last June, at 3X/week for 3 months, 2X/week >for > two months, then 1X/week since. She says the chiropractor told her >that it > may take years to make total correction of the spinal problems! > > I don't have a problem meeting with the Orthopedic Surgeons at our >hospital > and discussing cases. I look forward to working with the Neurologist >and > Family Practice doctors on NMS cases. It takes time to educate them, >and > gain their confidence. Likewise, I have learned a lot from them, and >look > forward to our weekly meetings. What I don't look forward to is >patients > coming to their medical doctors with stories like this, then being >referred > to me. Now my challenge becomes bigger. Talk about shooting ourselves >in the > foot! > > Every week, the topic of Evidence Based Medicine is brought up. The >Orthos > and FP providers are constantly doing literature searches to support >the > care they offer patients. They discuss cases between themselves. Can >we say > that about ourselves? How can we achieve " cultural authority " by >providing > care (?) like I just described. > > It kind of makes me want to get out my old bumper sticker that reads > " I'm > Mad Too, Eddie " . > > Thanks for letting me vent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OregonDCs rules: > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is >to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on >listserve members will be tolerated. > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. >However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, >forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another >member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have >been removed. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 , Your insight about this is right on .... BUT, you are shooting inward again. Having worked in the arena of a busy functioning hospital with the 'holier-than-thou' demeanors carried by all the MDs (yes, that is a generic statement but, when they are in a group, it is contagious amongst them) it is very difficult to get a concept in between the arrogance. These guys have a STEEP uphill learning curve and an even steeper uphill teaching curve. Cut him some slack. Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C Eugene, Oregon, 97401 541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955 From: "schneider@..." <schneider@...>Reply-<schneider@...><csimpson@...>, < >, <cdc@...>Subject: Re: EB chiropracticDate: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:22:15 -0800I score one for big . Great shot ! SchneiderPortland----- EB chiropractic>> OR DCs,>>>> A friend who works at one of the military treatment facilities shared>this with me. He is on the front lines of EB practice of chiropractic.>>>> A. Simpson, DC>>>> ???here> is a scenario that I encountered today. It is difficult enough to>break into> an integrated practice setting, but cases like this make it more of a> challenge. It is imperative we work collectively to improve the care>offered> our patients.>> A 29 year old Active Duty female presented today with upper and low>back> pain. She was referred by her Primary Care Manager to me for an>evaluation.> Long story-short: She has been under the care of a civilian>chiropractor> since June of last year, paying out of pocket. Now, there was no>specific> trauma, the upper back 'tightness' and low back pain, "just came on">while> she was on sea duty. She indicated that she feels better since taking> chiropractic treatments, but she "can't afford to keep going". When I>asked> when the last time she took a treatment was, she told me last week.>Come to> find out, she started out last June, at 3X/week for 3 months, 2X/week>for> two months, then 1X/week since. She says the chiropractor told her>that it> may take years to make total correction of the spinal problems!>> I don't have a problem meeting with the Orthopedic Surgeons at our>hospital> and discussing cases. I look forward to working with the Neurologist>and> Family Practice doctors on NMS cases. It takes time to educate them,>and> gain their confidence. Likewise, I have learned a lot from them, and>look> forward to our weekly meetings. What I don't look forward to is>patients> coming to their medical doctors with stories like this, then being>referred> to me. Now my challenge becomes bigger. Talk about shooting ourselves>in the> foot!>> Every week, the topic of Evidence Based Medicine is brought up. The>Orthos> and FP providers are constantly doing literature searches to support>the> care they offer patients. They discuss cases between themselves. Can>we say> that about ourselves? How can we achieve "cultural authority" by>providing> care (?) like I just described.>> It kind of makes me want to get out my old bumper sticker that reads>"I'm> Mad Too, Eddie".>> Thanks for letting me vent.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OregonDCs rules:> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is>to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on>listserve members will be tolerated.> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.>However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print,>forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another>member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have>been removed.>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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