Re: MR Label: Can we choose any other label? HELP!!

[Guest guest]

Stefanie,

It seems you keep asking the same question over and over. :-)

Yes, they need a label of MR to exclude her from the TAKS. In the third grade,

testing is used to determine promotion. The label of speech delayed will not

get her LDAA or SDAA. As a result, she will be required to take the TAKS. Even

with modifications, she will be unable to pass the third grade level of TAKS, so

she will NOT be promoted to 4th grade, even if she meets IEP goals. To pass 3rd

grade, you have to pass the TAKS. Period. If she is unable to take the TAKS,

it's because she is mentally retarded. That is a fact, and I don't get why you

should be freaked out by that. Please look up the definition of " retarded " in

the dictionary, it means slow, not stupid. The MR designation is a bureaucratic

tool that you have no way of getting around. It's all about the NCLB act. I'm

OK with the fact that my kid will always be " left behind " ...a little. He's

doing the best he can. Noah made one years worth of progress this year. Isn't

that what it's all about? the problem is, he went from the end of Kindergarten

to the end of first grade...but he's a third grader! There is no way he could

pass the 3rd grade TAKS....because he is retarded. Just a little behind the

other kids academically, but he's making typical amounts of progress, dare I say

even better, as I bet there are other kids in his class that didn't make a years

worth of academic progress.

I will go out on a limb, and suggest that you will find yourself at odds with

the school if they insist on staying with SD and not adding MR to her

designation. the schools are under immense pressure to perform, and if she will

be counted among the " typical " students, her test score will drag the

percentages down, and they will never have 100% passing. That will make them

cranky.

Just a thought.

Karla in Texas

MR Label: Can we choose any other label? HELP!!

Hi friends:

This is coming Thursday is our follow up ARD....

I mentioned to you that they are trying to change my neices label from Speech

Delayed to MR.....even though we refused IQ testing..................

They did do some testing but we refused IQ.

My neice will be going into a fully included 3rd grade class with an

aide..............

The prinicipal said that if we want her to take modified testing next year

that they have to report their findings and label her MR....

Do we have to have her take these tests?

We asked if it would give her more services and the answer was

no..............

So why label her MR?

We are just scared that by putting her into that category that it will be

easier for them to pull her out and not " include " her in an inclusive

environment...............

Have any of you been able to have another label other than MR?

Is there any other labels or categories that we could possibly get her into

other than MR?

Ever since she has been in school she has been labeled " Speech Delayed "

thanks friends

Stefanie (aunt-godmom to age 9 ds)

Texas

[Guest guest]

Stefanie,

It seems you keep asking the same question over and over. :-)

Yes, they need a label of MR to exclude her from the TAKS. In the third grade,

testing is used to determine promotion. The label of speech delayed will not

get her LDAA or SDAA. As a result, she will be required to take the TAKS. Even

with modifications, she will be unable to pass the third grade level of TAKS, so

she will NOT be promoted to 4th grade, even if she meets IEP goals. To pass 3rd

grade, you have to pass the TAKS. Period. If she is unable to take the TAKS,

it's because she is mentally retarded. That is a fact, and I don't get why you

should be freaked out by that. Please look up the definition of " retarded " in

the dictionary, it means slow, not stupid. The MR designation is a bureaucratic

tool that you have no way of getting around. It's all about the NCLB act. I'm

OK with the fact that my kid will always be " left behind " ...a little. He's

doing the best he can. Noah made one years worth of progress this year. Isn't

that what it's all about? the problem is, he went from the end of Kindergarten

to the end of first grade...but he's a third grader! There is no way he could

pass the 3rd grade TAKS....because he is retarded. Just a little behind the

other kids academically, but he's making typical amounts of progress, dare I say

even better, as I bet there are other kids in his class that didn't make a years

worth of academic progress.

I will go out on a limb, and suggest that you will find yourself at odds with

the school if they insist on staying with SD and not adding MR to her

designation. the schools are under immense pressure to perform, and if she will

be counted among the " typical " students, her test score will drag the

percentages down, and they will never have 100% passing. That will make them

cranky.

Just a thought.

Karla in Texas

MR Label: Can we choose any other label? HELP!!

Hi friends:

This is coming Thursday is our follow up ARD....

I mentioned to you that they are trying to change my neices label from Speech

Delayed to MR.....even though we refused IQ testing..................

They did do some testing but we refused IQ.

My neice will be going into a fully included 3rd grade class with an

aide..............

The prinicipal said that if we want her to take modified testing next year

that they have to report their findings and label her MR....

Do we have to have her take these tests?

We asked if it would give her more services and the answer was

no..............

So why label her MR?

We are just scared that by putting her into that category that it will be

easier for them to pull her out and not " include " her in an inclusive

environment...............

Have any of you been able to have another label other than MR?

Is there any other labels or categories that we could possibly get her into

other than MR?

Ever since she has been in school she has been labeled " Speech Delayed "

thanks friends

Stefanie (aunt-godmom to age 9 ds)

Texas

[Guest guest]

All I can speak for is Texas, since that is the only state we've lived in since

Noah has been in school.

What exactly do you mean by " keeping services? " I can't imagine how she would be

entitled to fewer services, if anything, she would qualify for more. I don't

know if it's possible to have the perfect situation for any and all placements.

There are a thousand different school districts that all seem to play by

different rules. Even within the district you can have wild variations just

based on the personalities of the administrators. Do what works now, deal with

what comes down the road...down the road. You never know when they are going to

change the rules anyway, so stay involved and informed, and make sure your voice

is heard when they start messing with the rules again.

Oh yeah...pray about it. God is bigger than any old school district.

Karla

Re: MR Label: Can we choose any other label? HELP!!

Thanks, Karla

Yes, keep asking the same question

as I really haven't gotten the question answered............

Are some folks able to succesfully keep another label past the 2nd grade other

than MR?

and how do they do it?

As I've heard from some that you can.............and they have been successful

in keeping another label and getting to keep all services.........just wondering

how they do it?

maybe it's not in Texas...I'm not sure...............

It's so scary b/c it sounds like some folks have had good success with the MR

label and some have NOT....and the ones that have NOT say that it was more ammo

for the schools to put their child in a more restrictive environment and that is

NOT what we want for my neice...............

Stefanie

[Guest guest]

All I can speak for is Texas, since that is the only state we've lived in since

Noah has been in school.

What exactly do you mean by " keeping services? " I can't imagine how she would be

entitled to fewer services, if anything, she would qualify for more. I don't

know if it's possible to have the perfect situation for any and all placements.

There are a thousand different school districts that all seem to play by

different rules. Even within the district you can have wild variations just

based on the personalities of the administrators. Do what works now, deal with

what comes down the road...down the road. You never know when they are going to

change the rules anyway, so stay involved and informed, and make sure your voice

is heard when they start messing with the rules again.

Oh yeah...pray about it. God is bigger than any old school district.

Karla

Re: MR Label: Can we choose any other label? HELP!!

Thanks, Karla

Yes, keep asking the same question

as I really haven't gotten the question answered............

Are some folks able to succesfully keep another label past the 2nd grade other

than MR?

and how do they do it?

As I've heard from some that you can.............and they have been successful

in keeping another label and getting to keep all services.........just wondering

how they do it?

maybe it's not in Texas...I'm not sure...............

It's so scary b/c it sounds like some folks have had good success with the MR

label and some have NOT....and the ones that have NOT say that it was more ammo

for the schools to put their child in a more restrictive environment and that is

NOT what we want for my neice...............

Stefanie

[Guest guest]

MR Label: Can we choose any other label? HELP!!

Man, am I glad we don't live in Texas! I don't know what TAKS is, butt here

in Virginia there is no test that a student has to pass to go to the third

grade.

It's the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills. In 3rd grade, it tests

your reading ability, and if you don't pass it after three

attempts, you are not promoted to the 4th grade. It is an effort to end

social promotion, and ending up with a kid in high school that can't read!

Teachers work very hard to get these kids ready to take these tests, our

district has a 97% passing rate, which means they are actually succeeding by

intervening before a struggling student is in middle school, and still can't

read at grade level. Moreover, they have a 53% " commended " rate, which means

the student scored at lest 90% on the test. I hear absolute horror stories

about services being withheld in other areas, while I have educators telling ME

about services available to my kid that I didn't even know about! Granted, it's

not the same in every district, but I'd say Texas is OK by me.

As far as the MR label is concerned, I would not agree to it. Yes, we all

know that the word just means slow, but it is an old, out-dated term that

has never been used in a positive way. And, I firmly believe that teachers

and educators in many cases look at expectations differently when they see

that MR label. A good teacher doesn't need a label to know how to teach

children who learn at different rates and in different ways.

Are you suggesting that a teacher needs to look in my child's file and see the

MR label

before he/she will decide my child will not be able to keep up academically,

and will need

learning supports? I give them more credit than that, spend two minutes with

my son, and you can pretty much figure out he's going to need some help.

As far as if she can or can't pass the tests, you'll never know until she

tries. And, don't fall for that " she'll bring our test scores down "

nonsense. If a school has low numbers, it is NOT because more than one or

two, or however many students who receive special ed services are taking the

tests. There are so many more factors involved.

The only problem is the rules are so strict that there is nothing a teacher

can do but drop the test on their desk and wish them luck. If you qualify, you

can get supports like having the teacher read the questions to you, etc. But

they can't even rephrase them, they are strictly bound by the testing rules.

Noah could almost pass a test of reading third grade text, but he would never be

able to retain the info to answer the questions, or even understand the way many

of them are worded. In other words, it would just test his ability to take the

test. If you child is doing the equivalent of first grade work in a third grade

classroom, it is ridiculous to expect them to understand a test given at a third

grade comprehension level. Since Noah is " labeled " MR, he is tested using more

of a portfolio system. It's the only accurate way to find out what he knows,

and it paints a very clear picture.

As far as bringing the test scores down, there are way more than " one or two "

special ed students that are involved. Without the designation, they are lumped

in with the typical kids, and that is what brings the scores down. Schools are

graded based on their scores, and it means alot to the individual campuses.

Karla in Texas

[Guest guest]

MR Label: Can we choose any other label? HELP!!

Man, am I glad we don't live in Texas! I don't know what TAKS is, butt here

in Virginia there is no test that a student has to pass to go to the third

grade.

It's the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills. In 3rd grade, it tests

your reading ability, and if you don't pass it after three

attempts, you are not promoted to the 4th grade. It is an effort to end

social promotion, and ending up with a kid in high school that can't read!

Teachers work very hard to get these kids ready to take these tests, our

district has a 97% passing rate, which means they are actually succeeding by

intervening before a struggling student is in middle school, and still can't

read at grade level. Moreover, they have a 53% " commended " rate, which means

the student scored at lest 90% on the test. I hear absolute horror stories

about services being withheld in other areas, while I have educators telling ME

about services available to my kid that I didn't even know about! Granted, it's

not the same in every district, but I'd say Texas is OK by me.

As far as the MR label is concerned, I would not agree to it. Yes, we all

know that the word just means slow, but it is an old, out-dated term that

has never been used in a positive way. And, I firmly believe that teachers

and educators in many cases look at expectations differently when they see

that MR label. A good teacher doesn't need a label to know how to teach

children who learn at different rates and in different ways.

Are you suggesting that a teacher needs to look in my child's file and see the

MR label

before he/she will decide my child will not be able to keep up academically,

and will need

learning supports? I give them more credit than that, spend two minutes with

my son, and you can pretty much figure out he's going to need some help.

As far as if she can or can't pass the tests, you'll never know until she

tries. And, don't fall for that " she'll bring our test scores down "

nonsense. If a school has low numbers, it is NOT because more than one or

two, or however many students who receive special ed services are taking the

tests. There are so many more factors involved.

The only problem is the rules are so strict that there is nothing a teacher

can do but drop the test on their desk and wish them luck. If you qualify, you

can get supports like having the teacher read the questions to you, etc. But

they can't even rephrase them, they are strictly bound by the testing rules.

Noah could almost pass a test of reading third grade text, but he would never be

able to retain the info to answer the questions, or even understand the way many

of them are worded. In other words, it would just test his ability to take the

test. If you child is doing the equivalent of first grade work in a third grade

classroom, it is ridiculous to expect them to understand a test given at a third

grade comprehension level. Since Noah is " labeled " MR, he is tested using more

of a portfolio system. It's the only accurate way to find out what he knows,

and it paints a very clear picture.

As far as bringing the test scores down, there are way more than " one or two "

special ed students that are involved. Without the designation, they are lumped

in with the typical kids, and that is what brings the scores down. Schools are

graded based on their scores, and it means alot to the individual campuses.

Karla in Texas

[Guest guest]

Hi,

In MAss you have to take the MCAS and pass to get a diploma. In 8th grade

my son went in sat down put his name on the test and had someone read a few

questions to him. he got bored and that was the end of the test. This was a 3

day test.

Last year, 10th, he had to take the final part of the test. We were told he

was doing the alternat test. This is a book that shows what he has learned. A

waste of everyone's time!!!!

No kid that does the test this way passes. So why bother the kids and the

teacher. It would have been easier to sit for a few minutes and then leave the

room. , but if he sat for the test it would have effected the schools scores.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Hi,

In MAss you have to take the MCAS and pass to get a diploma. In 8th grade

my son went in sat down put his name on the test and had someone read a few

questions to him. he got bored and that was the end of the test. This was a 3

day test.

Last year, 10th, he had to take the final part of the test. We were told he

was doing the alternat test. This is a book that shows what he has learned. A

waste of everyone's time!!!!

No kid that does the test this way passes. So why bother the kids and the

teacher. It would have been easier to sit for a few minutes and then leave the

room. , but if he sat for the test it would have effected the schools scores.

Jean

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/16/2005 4:58:34 PM Central Standard Time,

jtesmer799@... writes:

Testing isn't all that bad, but yes would pull her schools score down,

sinc she wouldn't actually do anything but fill in bubbles.....if

that...knowing her she'd decide to do nothing. LOL

Joy (Just my opinion of course :-)

Hi Joy

I tend to agree lol a friend of mine and myself differ on opinions of state

testing .......... Which is OK I keep in mind that Sara is " IEP driven " and

not " Curriculum driven " . In the state of TN you can be exempt if you meet

certain requirements. Sara has a portfolio done, basically all of her

objectives (which are many with a 30 pg. IEP lol) have to be successfully

mastered in

different areas of the school. It's a lot of work for the sped team and she's

even scored by her peers. I was impressed to see this years portfolio and

that her objectives can be done anywhere.

Now as far as the state test Sara did take it until 4th grade. She took a

1st grade test for years and we were able to see her growth curriculum wise

............ still scoring in the 10th percentile ................. not good for

the school though lol during the 4th grade year the state decided children

could not take a different test then their grade sooooooo that's when I decided

to do the portfolio. Her 5th grade test would have been to write a 3 page

essay with the only modification being she'd get the topic 30 mins before the

test ........... What a joke, all they would have got from Sara is a love note

Our schools are graded in 3 areas, one being Sped. If they fail in Sped

(LD/resource kids included) then the school fails. Funding for the school is a

result. We have many schools inside the Memphis area which are close to being

taken over by the state because they are labeled " failed schools " we are not in

that district I can see why they test here but I can also see how this

fails the child later (teachers only teach all year for what's on the test

Not many here like the NCLB for reasons I do understand.

Anyway the bottom line is I have enough safeguards in Sara's IEP to see

growth, even with the Reg Ed curriculum of the year

Kathy mom to Sara 13 .............. betting I confused more than cleared up

lol

¸...¸ ___/ /\ \___ ¸...¸

,·´º o`·, /__/ _/\_ \__\ ,·´º o`·,

```)¨(´´´ | | | | | | | | | ```)¨(´´´

¸,.-·²°´ ¸,.-·~·~·-.,¸ `°²·-.¸

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Josh. 24:15

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/16/2005 4:58:34 PM Central Standard Time,

jtesmer799@... writes:

Testing isn't all that bad, but yes would pull her schools score down,

sinc she wouldn't actually do anything but fill in bubbles.....if

that...knowing her she'd decide to do nothing. LOL

Joy (Just my opinion of course :-)

Hi Joy

I tend to agree lol a friend of mine and myself differ on opinions of state

testing .......... Which is OK I keep in mind that Sara is " IEP driven " and

not " Curriculum driven " . In the state of TN you can be exempt if you meet

certain requirements. Sara has a portfolio done, basically all of her

objectives (which are many with a 30 pg. IEP lol) have to be successfully

mastered in

different areas of the school. It's a lot of work for the sped team and she's

even scored by her peers. I was impressed to see this years portfolio and

that her objectives can be done anywhere.

Now as far as the state test Sara did take it until 4th grade. She took a

1st grade test for years and we were able to see her growth curriculum wise

............ still scoring in the 10th percentile ................. not good for

the school though lol during the 4th grade year the state decided children

could not take a different test then their grade sooooooo that's when I decided

to do the portfolio. Her 5th grade test would have been to write a 3 page

essay with the only modification being she'd get the topic 30 mins before the

test ........... What a joke, all they would have got from Sara is a love note

Our schools are graded in 3 areas, one being Sped. If they fail in Sped

(LD/resource kids included) then the school fails. Funding for the school is a

result. We have many schools inside the Memphis area which are close to being

taken over by the state because they are labeled " failed schools " we are not in

that district I can see why they test here but I can also see how this

fails the child later (teachers only teach all year for what's on the test

Not many here like the NCLB for reasons I do understand.

Anyway the bottom line is I have enough safeguards in Sara's IEP to see

growth, even with the Reg Ed curriculum of the year

Kathy mom to Sara 13 .............. betting I confused more than cleared up

lol

¸...¸ ___/ /\ \___ ¸...¸

,·´º o`·, /__/ _/\_ \__\ ,·´º o`·,

```)¨(´´´ | | | | | | | | | ```)¨(´´´

¸,.-·²°´ ¸,.-·~·~·-.,¸ `°²·-.¸

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Josh. 24:15

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/16/2005 4:58:34 PM Central Standard Time,

jtesmer799@... writes:

sinc she wouldn't actually do anything but fill in bubbles

HI Again

Have to share that when Sara was in 1st grade EVERYONE worked with Sara to

bubble the letter " C " for a month, you see the rule is " when in doubt bubble

" C " (studies have been done that persons can pass with this technique) lol so

they wanted Sara to bubble the whole column of C's

The day of testing they gave Sara the bubble sheet and her aide read her the

questions ............. Sara bubbled the whole sheet " A " lol they could not

say a word during the test but she was the talk of the school for years. Again

she exercised her control lololol and started the 10th percentile roll

Kathy mom to Sara 13

¸...¸ ___/ /\ \___ ¸...¸

,·´º o`·, /__/ _/\_ \__\ ,·´º o`·,

```)¨(´´´ | | | | | | | | | ```)¨(´´´

¸,.-·²°´ ¸,.-·~·~·-.,¸ `°²·-.¸

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Josh. 24:15

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/16/2005 4:58:34 PM Central Standard Time,

jtesmer799@... writes:

sinc she wouldn't actually do anything but fill in bubbles

HI Again

Have to share that when Sara was in 1st grade EVERYONE worked with Sara to

bubble the letter " C " for a month, you see the rule is " when in doubt bubble

" C " (studies have been done that persons can pass with this technique) lol so

they wanted Sara to bubble the whole column of C's

The day of testing they gave Sara the bubble sheet and her aide read her the

questions ............. Sara bubbled the whole sheet " A " lol they could not

say a word during the test but she was the talk of the school for years. Again

she exercised her control lololol and started the 10th percentile roll

Kathy mom to Sara 13

¸...¸ ___/ /\ \___ ¸...¸

,·´º o`·, /__/ _/\_ \__\ ,·´º o`·,

```)¨(´´´ | | | | | | | | | ```)¨(´´´

¸,.-·²°´ ¸,.-·~·~·-.,¸ `°²·-.¸

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Josh. 24:15

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/16/2005 7:42:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jbocci55@... writes:

is given an alternative form of the assessment specific for learning

disabled students

Hi,

How many kids have graduated a diploma with this type of assessment?? In

Mass we have NONE.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I'd like to address one or two sped students bringing the schools test scores

down. One of the really big things you forget is the size of the school and the

number of kids with LD " s who can't be exempted from these tests.

I'll explain for my school, this is in MN, we've had basic skills tests for

awhile (also my 21 yo luckily got out of hs before she had to also complete the

worthless standards of learning...that's another discussion, lol)

The 21 yo was not required to pass the basic skills test, the reason our state

developed it was because so many employers were complaining about the lack of

skills in so many of the young people applying for jobs. This test is based

on......a 8th grade level in math and reading (I think) ..not really very

technical, she said it was very easy. They also have to take a reading

comprehension test before they graduate (the 21 yo did have to take this)

My district is small, less then 50 students per grade, I think her class was

around 40 or so. If you have 2 kids in a class of 50 who cant pass this test

you're already down to 80%. You also have to figure in the kids with various

LD's that can effect their test scores. They really don't need kids (like mine)

who CAN'T pass the test who could be exempted to be filling in bubbles, it's

just a waste of the child's time. Remember in the case of my school just 2 kids

can make the district also show up as failing....which would be kinda funny as

far as that goes since i would guess that about 60-80% actually go on to some

type of post secondary program.

The decision to let your child have an MSMI or MMMI (in the case of TX MR) is up

to each individual family, it doesn't stop services and personally I don't see

how a child with only a speech delay lable would even qualify for a 1-1, unless

they've got other things listed under the disabitlities section. The label does

not mean the child cannot be fully included, I would think in some ways it might

help....but it's up to the indivual to decide.

Personally I wouldn't want to sit through these tests, just not worth it.

(she's no longer at her home school but I still wouldn't want her to take them,

lol) Even under the NCLB she is accessed by alternate means, which make more

sense in the case of someone who is so far behind her same age peers. I believe

The school districts actually have no choice but to have a child with only an LD

label take the test. There may be some minor accomodations that can be

made,when testing under NCLB like extending the time, but that's probably about

all. Actually before the nat. gov decided to get into the act our state was

doing ok, we had already set up testing requirments, other states had probably

already had them in place for much longer. But to many kids were graduating

without being able to do basic math and reading, and that wasn't fair to them.

Testing isn't all that bad, but yes would pull her schools score down, sinc

she wouldn't actually do anything but fill in bubbles.....if that...knowing her

she'd decide to do nothing. LOL

Joy (Just my opinion of course :-)

>>>>>>

.. If a school has low numbers, it is NOT because more than one or

two, or however many students who receive special ed services are taking the

tests. There are so many more factors involved.

Just another viewpoint to think about.

Debbie

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I'd like to address one or two sped students bringing the schools test scores

down. One of the really big things you forget is the size of the school and the

number of kids with LD " s who can't be exempted from these tests.

I'll explain for my school, this is in MN, we've had basic skills tests for

awhile (also my 21 yo luckily got out of hs before she had to also complete the

worthless standards of learning...that's another discussion, lol)

The 21 yo was not required to pass the basic skills test, the reason our state

developed it was because so many employers were complaining about the lack of

skills in so many of the young people applying for jobs. This test is based

on......a 8th grade level in math and reading (I think) ..not really very

technical, she said it was very easy. They also have to take a reading

comprehension test before they graduate (the 21 yo did have to take this)

My district is small, less then 50 students per grade, I think her class was

around 40 or so. If you have 2 kids in a class of 50 who cant pass this test

you're already down to 80%. You also have to figure in the kids with various

LD's that can effect their test scores. They really don't need kids (like mine)

who CAN'T pass the test who could be exempted to be filling in bubbles, it's

just a waste of the child's time. Remember in the case of my school just 2 kids

can make the district also show up as failing....which would be kinda funny as

far as that goes since i would guess that about 60-80% actually go on to some

type of post secondary program.

The decision to let your child have an MSMI or MMMI (in the case of TX MR) is up

to each individual family, it doesn't stop services and personally I don't see

how a child with only a speech delay lable would even qualify for a 1-1, unless

they've got other things listed under the disabitlities section. The label does

not mean the child cannot be fully included, I would think in some ways it might

help....but it's up to the indivual to decide.

Personally I wouldn't want to sit through these tests, just not worth it.

(she's no longer at her home school but I still wouldn't want her to take them,

lol) Even under the NCLB she is accessed by alternate means, which make more

sense in the case of someone who is so far behind her same age peers. I believe

The school districts actually have no choice but to have a child with only an LD

label take the test. There may be some minor accomodations that can be

made,when testing under NCLB like extending the time, but that's probably about

all. Actually before the nat. gov decided to get into the act our state was

doing ok, we had already set up testing requirments, other states had probably

already had them in place for much longer. But to many kids were graduating

without being able to do basic math and reading, and that wasn't fair to them.

Testing isn't all that bad, but yes would pull her schools score down, sinc

she wouldn't actually do anything but fill in bubbles.....if that...knowing her

she'd decide to do nothing. LOL

Joy (Just my opinion of course :-)

>>>>>>

.. If a school has low numbers, it is NOT because more than one or

two, or however many students who receive special ed services are taking the

tests. There are so many more factors involved.

Just another viewpoint to think about.

Debbie

[Guest guest]

is given an alternative form of the assessment specific for learning

disabled students. They video tape it and let the parents see it when they get

it back from the state. Just signed last week at his IEP meeting to allow them

to do that when he is in 11th grade instead of giving him the one all other 11th

graders take.

Jackie, from PA

-------------- Original message --------------

> Hi,

> In MAss you have to take the MCAS and pass to get a diploma. In 8th grade

> my son went in sat down put his name on the test and had someone read a few

> questions to him. he got bored and that was the end of the test. This was a 3

> day test.

> Last year, 10th, he had to take the final part of the test. We were told he

> was doing the alternat test. This is a book that shows what he has learned. A

> waste of everyone's time!!!!

> No kid that does the test this way passes. So why bother the kids and the

> teacher. It would have been easier to sit for a few minutes and then leave the

> room. , but if he sat for the test it would have effected the schools scores.

> Jean

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

is given an alternative form of the assessment specific for learning

disabled students. They video tape it and let the parents see it when they get

it back from the state. Just signed last week at his IEP meeting to allow them

to do that when he is in 11th grade instead of giving him the one all other 11th

graders take.

Jackie, from PA

-------------- Original message --------------

> Hi,

> In MAss you have to take the MCAS and pass to get a diploma. In 8th grade

> my son went in sat down put his name on the test and had someone read a few

> questions to him. he got bored and that was the end of the test. This was a 3

> day test.

> Last year, 10th, he had to take the final part of the test. We were told he

> was doing the alternat test. This is a book that shows what he has learned. A

> waste of everyone's time!!!!

> No kid that does the test this way passes. So why bother the kids and the

> teacher. It would have been easier to sit for a few minutes and then leave the

> room. , but if he sat for the test it would have effected the schools scores.

> Jean

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not confused here. LOL I think I've known you for to long to not know where

your'e coming from. hehe. Still have a copy of each grades curriculum

requirements, huh? :-)

Regarding 'teaching to the test " what confuses me is why kids are having such a

hard time being tested on things they're supposedly supposed to have been taught

each year. It's beginning to look like this nation needs a more comprehensive

curricilum that teaches the three r's. and from my oldest's frustration with

'new' math while in elementry.. and the impression given by her teachers that

THIS IS THE WAY YOU HAVE TO DO THIS!!!!!...perhaps it's time to quit playing

with how things are taught from the start, to show kids struggling the 'old' way

to do it, which made much more sense for her, but she 'thought' from what the

authority figure said that SHE COULDN'T LISTEN TO ME CAUSE I WASN " T A TEACHER.

sigh......(course that is a whole other argument, hehe)

Good Luck with getting Sara's IEP transferred to the new school. :-) Hope it

goes well. Exactly when is the big move? I'm assuming you're staying til the

end of the school year with ? (btw, I think I agree with ,

will probably decide to join you in your new city in a year or so, hehe)

Take care :-)

Joy ....who hates those sheets with little bubbles to fill in just cause I

always end up going back to find out which question I missed, sometimes it's a

longgggg way back. LOL (maybe that's some of the problem, hehe)

Our schools are graded in 3 areas, one being Sped. If they fail in Sped

(LD/resource kids included) then the school fails. Funding for the school is a

result. We have many schools inside the Memphis area which are close to being

taken over by the state because they are labeled " failed schools " we are not in

that district I can see why they test here but I can also see how this fails

the child later (teachers only teach all year for what's on the test Not many

here like the NCLB for reasons I do understand.

Anyway the bottom line is I have enough safeguards in Sara's IEP to see growth,

even with the Reg Ed curriculum of the year

Kathy mom to Sara 13 .............. betting I confused more than cleared up lol

¸...¸ ___/ /\ \___ ¸...¸

,·´º o`·, /__/ _/\_ \__\ ,·´º o`·,

```)¨(´´´ | | | | | | | | | ```)¨(´´´

¸,.-·²°´ ¸,.-·~·~·-.,¸ `°²·-.¸

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Josh. 24:15

[Guest guest]

Not confused here. LOL I think I've known you for to long to not know where

your'e coming from. hehe. Still have a copy of each grades curriculum

requirements, huh? :-)

Regarding 'teaching to the test " what confuses me is why kids are having such a

hard time being tested on things they're supposedly supposed to have been taught

each year. It's beginning to look like this nation needs a more comprehensive

curricilum that teaches the three r's. and from my oldest's frustration with

'new' math while in elementry.. and the impression given by her teachers that

THIS IS THE WAY YOU HAVE TO DO THIS!!!!!...perhaps it's time to quit playing

with how things are taught from the start, to show kids struggling the 'old' way

to do it, which made much more sense for her, but she 'thought' from what the

authority figure said that SHE COULDN'T LISTEN TO ME CAUSE I WASN " T A TEACHER.

sigh......(course that is a whole other argument, hehe)

Good Luck with getting Sara's IEP transferred to the new school. :-) Hope it

goes well. Exactly when is the big move? I'm assuming you're staying til the

end of the school year with ? (btw, I think I agree with ,

will probably decide to join you in your new city in a year or so, hehe)

Take care :-)

Joy ....who hates those sheets with little bubbles to fill in just cause I

always end up going back to find out which question I missed, sometimes it's a

longgggg way back. LOL (maybe that's some of the problem, hehe)

Our schools are graded in 3 areas, one being Sped. If they fail in Sped

(LD/resource kids included) then the school fails. Funding for the school is a

result. We have many schools inside the Memphis area which are close to being

taken over by the state because they are labeled " failed schools " we are not in

that district I can see why they test here but I can also see how this fails

the child later (teachers only teach all year for what's on the test Not many

here like the NCLB for reasons I do understand.

Anyway the bottom line is I have enough safeguards in Sara's IEP to see growth,

even with the Reg Ed curriculum of the year

Kathy mom to Sara 13 .............. betting I confused more than cleared up lol

¸...¸ ___/ /\ \___ ¸...¸

,·´º o`·, /__/ _/\_ \__\ ,·´º o`·,

```)¨(´´´ | | | | | | | | | ```)¨(´´´

¸,.-·²°´ ¸,.-·~·~·-.,¸ `°²·-.¸

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Josh. 24:15

[Guest guest]

Joy wrote:

>Regarding 'teaching to the test " what confuses me is why kids are having such

a hard time being tested on things they're supposedly supposed to have been

taught each year. It's beginning to look like this nation needs a more

comprehensive curricilum that teaches the three r's. and from my oldest's

frustration with 'new' math while in elementry.. and the impression given by her

teachers that THIS IS THE WAY YOU HAVE TO DO THIS!!!!!...perhaps it's time to

quit playing with how things are taught from the start, to show kids struggling

the 'old' way to do it, which made much more sense for her, but she 'thought'

from what the authority figure said that SHE COULDN'T LISTEN TO ME CAUSE I

WASN " T A TEACHER. sigh......(course that is a whole other argument, hehe)

>

I TOTALLY agree! My 4th grader (good student, gifted program) broke

down the other night while doing math homework. Turns out, she couldn't

multiply anymore! Asked her " What? You've been able to do

multiplication since 3rd grade...... what's up? " Well, in 4th grade,

with the (IMHO stinky!) " Everyday Math " you have to learn to multiply

many different ways, including " partial product method " , " lattice

method " , etc. That poor kid was taught so many different ways to

multiply that she looked at a pretty simple problem and didn't know what

to do anymore! I told her " I don't care what the directions say,

multiply these problems the good old way you were first taught " . (which

we then had to quickly reteach her) Of course, she cried harder,

worried about what the teacher would say. Told her " don't worry about

Mr. A " (LOL) Told the teacher about it the next day (he loves the math

program our district uses..... pretty much his only fault!), and said

that we had decided to go back to math basics, and that should not

lose credit for using more " traditional " methods for multiplication. "

He knows that (1) I have probably had more years of math than he has,

(2) is bright, and if this is confusing her, hummm..., and (3)

the kinds of issues I have deal with for , and that I am not

afraid of the anyone at school or the district! So, it has never come

up again, though her confidence in math was shaken quite a bit,

especially when it came time to take the State tests last week!

I certainly agree that teaching different methods can be useful for

students who don't get the " standard " method....... obviously,

uses this every day. Certainly, Touch Math has made adding and

subtracting more doable for her, where the standard method she didn't

get. However, I'm not sure that it would have been necessary to teach

the entire class TouchMath (though there are several kids who could

certainly benefit from it!), and/or several different methods of

addition. Ahhhhh, I predit the pendulum will soon begin to swing the

other direction......... remember " Whole Language " rather than phonics?

, mom to (9), (7 DS), and (5)

[Guest guest]

Joy wrote:

>Regarding 'teaching to the test " what confuses me is why kids are having such

a hard time being tested on things they're supposedly supposed to have been

taught each year. It's beginning to look like this nation needs a more

comprehensive curricilum that teaches the three r's. and from my oldest's

frustration with 'new' math while in elementry.. and the impression given by her

teachers that THIS IS THE WAY YOU HAVE TO DO THIS!!!!!...perhaps it's time to

quit playing with how things are taught from the start, to show kids struggling

the 'old' way to do it, which made much more sense for her, but she 'thought'

from what the authority figure said that SHE COULDN'T LISTEN TO ME CAUSE I

WASN " T A TEACHER. sigh......(course that is a whole other argument, hehe)

>

I TOTALLY agree! My 4th grader (good student, gifted program) broke

down the other night while doing math homework. Turns out, she couldn't

multiply anymore! Asked her " What? You've been able to do

multiplication since 3rd grade...... what's up? " Well, in 4th grade,

with the (IMHO stinky!) " Everyday Math " you have to learn to multiply

many different ways, including " partial product method " , " lattice

method " , etc. That poor kid was taught so many different ways to

multiply that she looked at a pretty simple problem and didn't know what

to do anymore! I told her " I don't care what the directions say,

multiply these problems the good old way you were first taught " . (which

we then had to quickly reteach her) Of course, she cried harder,

worried about what the teacher would say. Told her " don't worry about

Mr. A " (LOL) Told the teacher about it the next day (he loves the math

program our district uses..... pretty much his only fault!), and said

that we had decided to go back to math basics, and that should not

lose credit for using more " traditional " methods for multiplication. "

He knows that (1) I have probably had more years of math than he has,

(2) is bright, and if this is confusing her, hummm..., and (3)

the kinds of issues I have deal with for , and that I am not

afraid of the anyone at school or the district! So, it has never come

up again, though her confidence in math was shaken quite a bit,

especially when it came time to take the State tests last week!

I certainly agree that teaching different methods can be useful for

students who don't get the " standard " method....... obviously,

uses this every day. Certainly, Touch Math has made adding and

subtracting more doable for her, where the standard method she didn't

get. However, I'm not sure that it would have been necessary to teach

the entire class TouchMath (though there are several kids who could

certainly benefit from it!), and/or several different methods of

addition. Ahhhhh, I predit the pendulum will soon begin to swing the

other direction......... remember " Whole Language " rather than phonics?

, mom to (9), (7 DS), and (5)

[Guest guest]

Spellings Announces New Special Education Guidelines, Details Workable,

" Common-Sense " Policy to Help States Implement No Child Left Behind

Guidelines reflect the latest scientific research to help students with

disabilities

States continue to be accountable for results of all studentsU.S. Secretary

of Education Margaret Spellings today announced the details of a new No

Child Left Behind policy designed to help states better assist students with

disabilities, and pledged to continue working with states to ensure they

have the flexibility needed to raise student achievement. The guidelines

follow up on the Secretary's announcement last month to chief state school

officers that she would provide states with additional alternatives and

flexibility to implement No Child Left Behind.

The new guidelines reflect the latest scientific research that shows 2

percent of students with academic disabilities can make progress toward

grade-level standards when they receive high-quality instruction and

modified assessments. Under the new flexibility option announced today,

eligible states may adjust their state-set progress goals to reflect the

need for modified assessments; this is a separate policy from the current

regulation that allows up to 1 percent of all students being tested (those

with the most significant cognitive disabilities) to take an alternate

assessment.

" There is a new equation at the Department of Education: the 'bright-line'

principles of No Child Left Behind, such as annual testing and reporting of

subgroup data, plus student achievement and a narrowing of the achievement

gap, plus overall sound state education policies, equals a new, common-sense

approach to implementation of the law. Today's special education guidance is

the first example of this new approach, " Secretary Spellings said.

" Under this policy, to be made final under a new rule, students with

academic disabilities will be allowed to take tests that are specifically

geared toward their abilities, as long as the state is working to best serve

those students by providing rigorous research-based training for teachers,

improving assessments and organizing collaboration between special education

and classroom teachers, " Secretary Spellings continued. " If you stand up for

the kids and provide better instruction and assessment, we will stand by

you.

" Recent research from the National Institutes of Health indicates clearly

that good instruction actually improves how the student learns. New

evidence-based instructional programs geared toward the needs of individual

children are opening educational doors for students who never before had a

chance to succeed academically. Recent advances in medical interventions

also hold considerable promise for many of our students with the most

significant disabilities. "

The new guidelines outline the process for how eligible states can implement

this new policy in the short term until the Department issues final

regulations on the policy.

Short-Term Options

States that meet the eligibility guidelines can adjust their 2005-06 school

year state-set progress goals (Adequate Yearly Progress, or AYP) for

students with disabilities, based on the 2004-05 school year assessments.

This option applies only to schools or districts that did not make AYP based

solely on the scores of its students with disabilities subgroup. Eligible

states that currently assess students based on modified achievement

standards will be able to use those assessments for AYP calculations this

year. Only states that intend to develop modified achievement standards and

assessments are eligible for short-term flexibility.

The eligibility guidelines include:

Each state must meet Title I and IDEA requirements that are directly related

to achievement and instruction for the full range of students with

disabilities, including:

Statewide participation rates for students with disabilities, for purposes

of measuring AYP, must be at or above 95 percent;

Appropriate accommodations must be available for students with disabilities

Alternate assessments in reading/language arts and mathematics must be

available for students with disabilities who are unable to participate in

the regular assessment, even with accommodations, and results from those

assessments must be reported; and

The state's subgroup size for students with disabilities must be equal to

that of other student groups.

Each state would request to amend their accountability plan and provide

details on their actions taken to raise achievement for students with

disabilities, and evidence that such efforts are improving student

achievement.

Long Term Policy

The Department is working on a regulation to implement the new policy and

will release a notice of proposed rulemaking to seek comments from local

school districts, parents and others before finalizing a regulation.

The goal of the regulations is to:

Ensure that states hold these students to challenging, though modified,

achievement standards that enable them to approach, and even meet,

grade-level standards;

Ensure access to the general curriculum to ensure students are taught to the

same high standards;

Measure progress with high-quality alternate assessments so parents are

confident that their students are learning and achieving;

Provide guidance and training to Individualized Education Program (IEP)

teams to identify these students properly; and

Provide professional development to regular and special education teachers.

States must continue meeting the requirements of NCLB related to students

with disabilities.

To increase the state's ability to provide rigorous assessment, instruction,

and accountability for students with disabilities, the Department of

Education will direct $14 million to improve assessments, help teachers with

instruction, and conduct research for students with disabilities who are

held to alternate and modified achievement standards in 2005. Additional

funds will be directed in 2006.

No Child Left Behind is the bipartisan landmark education reform law

designed to change the culture of America's schools by closing the

achievement gap among groups of students, offering more flexibility to

states, giving parents more options and teaching students based on what

works. Under the law's strong accountability provisions, states must

describe how they will close the achievement gap and make sure all students,

including those with disabilities, achieve academically.

More information about the new policy and the No Child Left Behind Act is

available at www.ed.gov.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/16/2005 7:55:37 PM Central Standard Time,

jtesmer799@... writes:

Regarding 'teaching to the test " what confuses me is why kids are having

such a hard time being tested on things they're supposedly supposed to have

been taught each year.

Hi Joy

One example is my (NDA) daughter Kaite (she's a sophomore). This year she

had to take the Gateway test in Biology and English. She feels she did quite

well in English because as you said its basically a test that measures things

she's been taught for years. NOW biology .............. she's praying she

passed it because she's struggled with this class, barely passing all year.

They

have flown through the curriculum and if you did not comprehend or come to an

understanding in one area then you'll probably fail that part of the test

Since our HS students now have to pass each Gateway in order to Graduate she

might have to take it again.

Having 4 kids all at different ends of the spectrum, all with different

learning styles these standard tests which are made to cover so much material

not

just the basics 3 Rs really don't measure the whole child. Also coming from

my sister/teacher, it measures inaccurately teachers ...... then again I look

at some of our schools in the Memphis district and say they need to clean

house and rid themselves of some of their teachers.

Since Ive been watching Kaite closely this year academically I can testify

that a teacher can make or break a child education. Kaite (bragging) took the

National Spanish honors test and is ranked 6th in the nation ................

she loves Spanish and will move on to honors Spanish next year. She had the

most encouraging teacher who motivated my child to use all of her potential

................ her biology teacher was her polar opposite

As I am with Sara, I will be with Kaite and work the next 2 years on her ACT

ability. This test is what matters in getting her into college lol as of

today her goal is to become a Spanish speaking sped teacher in the Spanish

community .............. I told her about Arlene's little school house in Mexico

and she says that's where she wants to be lol Kaite has other talents

........... she's an awesome debater lol when we argue she makes so much sense I

have

to end it with " Im boss, and this is over " I told her she needs to use all of

her talents and shoot higher lol a Spanish speaking Sped Attorney lol

I was educated in both the North and the South and you all from the North

have NO idea what education is like down here. We have all of our coaches for

all sports as teachers. I have met very few who actually meet the needs of the

kids thye are teaching ............ its been a joke for way to many years and

this needs to stop. Athletics plays a big importance here, I am

disappointed. Bill Curtis (Warrens Dad) can probably echo what Im saying, lol

probably

why his kids are in Private schools here lol

Oh well this problem is to big for me, I do what Im supposed to do from home

and pray

Kathy mom to Sara 13 .................. IMHO

¸...¸ ___/ /\ \___ ¸...¸

,·´º o`·, /__/ _/\_ \__\ ,·´º o`·,

```)¨(´´´ | | | | | | | | | ```)¨(´´´

¸,.-·²°´ ¸,.-·~·~·-.,¸ `°²·-.¸

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Josh. 24:15

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/16/2005 7:55:37 PM Central Standard Time,

jtesmer799@... writes:

Regarding 'teaching to the test " what confuses me is why kids are having

such a hard time being tested on things they're supposedly supposed to have

been taught each year.

Hi Joy

One example is my (NDA) daughter Kaite (she's a sophomore). This year she

had to take the Gateway test in Biology and English. She feels she did quite

well in English because as you said its basically a test that measures things

she's been taught for years. NOW biology .............. she's praying she

passed it because she's struggled with this class, barely passing all year.

They

have flown through the curriculum and if you did not comprehend or come to an

understanding in one area then you'll probably fail that part of the test

Since our HS students now have to pass each Gateway in order to Graduate she

might have to take it again.

Having 4 kids all at different ends of the spectrum, all with different

learning styles these standard tests which are made to cover so much material

not

just the basics 3 Rs really don't measure the whole child. Also coming from

my sister/teacher, it measures inaccurately teachers ...... then again I look

at some of our schools in the Memphis district and say they need to clean

house and rid themselves of some of their teachers.

Since Ive been watching Kaite closely this year academically I can testify

that a teacher can make or break a child education. Kaite (bragging) took the

National Spanish honors test and is ranked 6th in the nation ................

she loves Spanish and will move on to honors Spanish next year. She had the

most encouraging teacher who motivated my child to use all of her potential

................ her biology teacher was her polar opposite

As I am with Sara, I will be with Kaite and work the next 2 years on her ACT

ability. This test is what matters in getting her into college lol as of

today her goal is to become a Spanish speaking sped teacher in the Spanish

community .............. I told her about Arlene's little school house in Mexico

and she says that's where she wants to be lol Kaite has other talents

........... she's an awesome debater lol when we argue she makes so much sense I

have

to end it with " Im boss, and this is over " I told her she needs to use all of

her talents and shoot higher lol a Spanish speaking Sped Attorney lol

I was educated in both the North and the South and you all from the North

have NO idea what education is like down here. We have all of our coaches for

all sports as teachers. I have met very few who actually meet the needs of the

kids thye are teaching ............ its been a joke for way to many years and

this needs to stop. Athletics plays a big importance here, I am

disappointed. Bill Curtis (Warrens Dad) can probably echo what Im saying, lol

probably

why his kids are in Private schools here lol

Oh well this problem is to big for me, I do what Im supposed to do from home

and pray

Kathy mom to Sara 13 .................. IMHO

¸...¸ ___/ /\ \___ ¸...¸

,·´º o`·, /__/ _/\_ \__\ ,·´º o`·,

```)¨(´´´ | | | | | | | | | ```)¨(´´´

¸,.-·²°´ ¸,.-·~·~·-.,¸ `°²·-.¸

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Josh. 24:15

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/16/2005 7:55:37 PM Central Standard Time,

jtesmer799@... writes:

Good Luck with getting Sara's IEP transferred to the new school. :-) Hope

it goes well. Exactly when is the big move? I'm assuming you're staying

til the end of the school year with ? (btw, I think I agree with

, will probably decide to join you in your new city in a year or

so,

hehe)

Hi

I will fight my hardest to keep this IEP in place its awesome!!!!!! since

Im NOT moving out of state I really hope they see the team who made this IEP

is the personal who should be writing for Sara.

The house we were to buy fell (finally) through as of yesterday (we had hope

until then) soooooooooo we are out of time and will rent for 6 months and

house hunt together during the next 6 months ............ Mikes been doing it

with my sister and some can imagine what he's looking for lol Our target date

is the 25th but I cant imagine that ....... Mikes dads surgery has been again

postponed because he now has an irregular heart beat and has to see a

cardiologist today, the surgeon refused to do the surgery until he's seen by the

cardio. Last I heard his surgery is tentatively set for the 25th or 26th

............. Im not leaving him or MIL so my stuff may arrive in the new

house

without me ............ what a mess Im in. School is finished the 26th so I'll

arrive when things calm down here .......... 's trying to talk me

into staying with her for the month of June .......... I love this girl

Kathy mom to Sara 13

¸...¸ ___/ /\ \___ ¸...¸

,·´º o`·, /__/ _/\_ \__\ ,·´º o`·,

```)¨(´´´ | | | | | | | | | ```)¨(´´´

¸,.-·²°´ ¸,.-·~·~·-.,¸ `°²·-.¸

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Josh. 24:15