Re: question on the 'Got Milk' issue

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/11/2005 9:37:24 AM US Mountain Standard Time, chirodoc1@... writes:

.......'Why do we have LACTASE if not to digest 'Lactose'?.........

J. Pedersen DC

Good question. one study shows that among Russians up to 23% of the populatuion is deficiency in the enzyme ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15991859 & query_hl=3 ). Other studies claim up to 75% of the world population ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15054489 & query_hl=3 ).

Galactose, the hydrolyzed product of lactose has been theorized to be toxic and associated with ovarian cancer , and so it was theorized that people who continue producing lactase are prone to ovarian cancer - but studies show the opposite - they are less prone to ovarian cancer ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15880573 & query_hl=3 ). Similarly , low lactase levels have been associated with increased risk of colorectal cancer ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15831909 & query_hl=3 ). It seems people who continue producing lactase are at a lower risk of cancer - I wonder if this is true even if they don't drink milk. I also wonder if taking lactase supplements help or if it is only for people who endogenously produce lactase. Maybe its just simple that if you produce lactase its God's way of saying you should continue to drink milk and if you don't then don't.

???

Anglen

[Guest guest]

Therein lies one of the major problems .... a good half of the population doesn't have that lactase and is unable to digest the milk sugar ... unfortunately no one reminds them that milk products not in a glass are also made of milk and need that enzyme ... how many patients tell you "I can't drink milk because it gives me ________ (fill in the blank) ... so I only eat cheese (or yogurt or butter or ice cream ...fill in the blank).... and wonder why they have problems.

The education or the lack thereof in this arena surpasses the lack of education for chiropractic. the American public is being lead around by the nose by the medical/pharmaceutical companies of this country.

Sunny

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: JPedersenDC <chirodoc1@...>oregon dcs < >Subject: question on the 'Got Milk' issueDate: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 07:58:26 -0800....so it came to me in the midst of my confusion on the 'milk-Not milk'issue, something my dwindling reserves of uncoagulated brain cells arecurrently mulling:......'Why do we have LACTASE if not to digest 'Lactose'?.........J. Pedersen DC"A Slow Learner, Yet Ever Observant"

[Guest guest]

Valid observation Dr. Pederson. From my understanding there are a few different types of Lactose sugars, type I & II or A & B...I can't recall which it is, and that human breast milk is rich in a certain type of Lactose and it lacks the other. Cows milk is higher in the type of Lactose sugar that we weren't meant to ingest, hence the prevalence of allergic reactions to it. Sunny, maybe you could elaborate if this rings a bell. I'm trying to find my source as I write this, I'll post another message with it when I find it. Seth Colner, DCJPedersenDC <chirodoc1@...> wrote: ....so it came to me in the midst of my confusion on the 'milk-Not milk' issue, something my dwindling reserves of uncoagulated brain cells are currently

mulling:......'Why do we have LACTASE if not to digest 'Lactose'?.........J. Pedersen DC"A Slow Learner, Yet Ever Observant"

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/12/2005 11:32:23 AM US Mountain Standard Time, colnerdc@... writes:

Valid observation Dr. Pederson. From my understanding there are a few different types of Lactose sugars, type I & II or A & B...I can't recall which it is, and that human breast milk is rich in a certain type of Lactose and it lacks the other. Cows milk is higher in the type of Lactose sugar that we weren't meant to ingest, hence the prevalence of allergic reactions to it.

Sorry to keep jumping all over this issue everyone. I would like to see a reference to this. I cannot believe this is true. And again,I feel it is of the utmost importance that we always research enough to know what we speak about as doctors - no problem when we are talking to our colleagues and are learning and discussing professionally - but I think it is really important to establish our credibility to speak in such a manner that what we say cannot be undermined, rediculed or attacked - for our profession. I do not propose to speak flawlessly in regards to health, but its important to speak authoritatively if we know, and otherwise make sure speculation or theory is presented as such, and presented professionally - othewise we open ourselves to problems.

Anyway, I highly doubt there can be more than one type of lactose. glucose is glucose because of how the carbons etc are arranged - if you rearrange the molecules you no longer have glucose. Lactose describes a specific chemical structure - you can have enantiomers of the chemical - that is stoichiometry - but it is still the same molecule just labeled with a pre-modifier suc as L- or R-. However Lactose intolerance may be divided into three groups: 1) congenital lactose intolerance 2) familial lactose intolerance 3) late onset lactose intolerance

http://www.pamf.org/health/healthinfo/index.cfm?page=article & sgml_id=hw177971

If you can find that there is more than one lactose I would love to see it, but I highly doubt it. that is like calling ehtanol and methanol and isopropyl alcohol all by the same name - similar but they are each chemically unique and seperate from the others. If there was another sugar in cows or human milk that was chemically unique they would not each be called lactose. I am pretty sure lactose is lactose is lactose. My undergradaute minor was in chemistry and that was years ago, but I still think that is correct. Likewise lactase will digest any lactose regardless of the source. I think the issue is lactase deficiency not that there is lactase type 1, 2 and 3.

Looking forward to a citation on the lactose variations idea.

Anglen

[Guest guest]

Hi Seth,

Your info is new to me but then I haven't focused on the enzymes (beyond the well know lactase) just the proteins....please share with us what you know. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: "Seth Colner, D.C." <colnerdc@...>JPedersenDC <chirodoc1@...>, Post Messages < >Subject: Re: question on the 'Got Milk' issueDate: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:31:37 -0800 (PST)

Valid observation Dr. Pederson. From my understanding there are a few different types of Lactose sugars, type I & II or A & B...I can't recall which it is, and that human breast milk is rich in a certain type of Lactose and it lacks the other. Cows milk is higher in the type of Lactose sugar that we weren't meant to ingest, hence the prevalence of allergic reactions to it.

Sunny, maybe you could elaborate if this rings a bell. I'm trying to find my source as I write this, I'll post another message with it when I find it.

Seth Colner, DCJPedersenDC <chirodoc1@...> wrote:

.....so it came to me in the midst of my confusion on the 'milk-Not milk' issue, something my dwindling reserves of uncoagulated brain cells are currently mulling:......'Why do we have LACTASE if not to digest 'Lactose'?.........J. Pedersen DC"A Slow Learner, Yet Ever Observant"

Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/12/2005 9:06:34 PM US Mountain Standard Time, skrndc1@... writes:

How does one, or a group for that matter, refine and define a theory or idea if they can't ask questions without fear of being whomped on for asking it?

Your understandings are a asset to this forum but quit stomping on questions posed for curiosity please. That type of thing shuts people down.

I don't feel I have stomped on questions or whomped on anyone. When someone poses a question I post my information. I also tend to answer questions on the about level the person poses them. I have no problem with people posing questions if they don't mind me posting information about it. My fear is that we as chiropractors often over exceed our real understanding and knowledge by suggesting conjecture or speculation as fact. I do see a danger in that.

Anglen

[Guest guest]

Hi LIndsay,

It is true being accurate is important but where then is the room for conjecture and sharing information for the sake of discovery and research? How does one, or a group for that matter, refine and define a theory or idea if they can't ask questions without fear of being whomped on for asking it?

Your understandings are a asset to this forum but quit stomping on questions posed for curiosity please. That type of thing shuts people down.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: ang320@...To: Subject: Re: question on the 'Got Milk' issueDate: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:23:09 ESTIn a message dated 12/12/2005 11:32:23 AM US Mountain Standard Time, colnerdc@... writes:

Valid observation Dr. Pederson. From my understanding there are a few different types of Lactose sugars, type I & II or A & B...I can't recall which it is, and that human breast milk is rich in a certain type of Lactose and it lacks the other. Cows milk is higher in the type of Lactose sugar that we weren't meant to ingest, hence the prevalence of allergic reactions to it. Sorry to keep jumping all over this issue everyone. I would like to see a reference to this. I cannot believe this is true. And again,I feel it is of the utmost importance that we always research enough to know what we speak about as doctors - no problem when we are talking to our colleagues and are learning and discussing professionally - but I think it is really important to establish our credibility to speak in such a manner that what we say cannot be undermined, rediculed or attacked - for our profession. I do not propose to speak flawlessly in regards to health, but its important to speak authoritatively if we know, and otherwise make sure speculation or theory is presented as such, and presented professionally - othewise we open ourselves to problems.Anyway, I highly doubt there can be more than one type of lactose. glucose is glucose because of how the carbons etc are arranged - if you rearrange the molecules you no longer have glucose. Lactose describes a specific chemical structure - you can have enantiomers of the chemical - that is stoichiometry - but it is still the same molecule just labeled with a pre-modifier suc as L- or R-. However Lactose intolerance may be divided into three groups: 1) congenital lactose intolerance 2) familial lactose intolerance 3) late onset lactose intolerance http://www.pamf.org/health/healthinfo/index.cfm?page=article & sgml_id=hw177971If you can find that there is more than one lactose I would love to see it, but I highly doubt it. that is like calling ehtanol and methanol and isopropyl alcohol all by the same name - similar but they are each chemically unique and seperate from the others. If there was another sugar in cows or human milk that was chemically unique they would not each be called lactose. I am pretty sure lactose is lactose is lactose. My undergradaute minor was in chemistry and that was years ago, but I still think that is correct. Likewise lactase will digest any lactose regardless of the source. I think the issue is lactase deficiency not that there is lactase type 1, 2 and 3.Looking forward to a citation on the lactose variations idea. AnglenOregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

Seth,

Most sugars have D and L conformational isomers. I suggest you try your organic chemistry or biochem book for searching this out Biological systems often use 1 preferentially.

Colwell, DC

Re: question on the 'Got Milk' issue

Valid observation Dr. Pederson. From my understanding there are a few different types of Lactose sugars, type I & II or A & B...I can't recall which it is, and that human breast milk is rich in a certain type of Lactose and it lacks the other. Cows milk is higher in the type of Lactose sugar that we weren't meant to ingest, hence the prevalence of allergic reactions to it.

Sunny, maybe you could elaborate if this rings a bell. I'm trying to find my source as I write this, I'll post another message with it when I find it.

Seth Colner, DCJPedersenDC <chirodoc1@...> wrote:

.....so it came to me in the midst of my confusion on the 'milk-Not milk' issue, something my dwindling reserves of uncoagulated brain cells are currently mulling:......'Why do we have LACTASE if not to digest 'Lactose'?.........J. Pedersen DC"A Slow Learner, Yet Ever Observant"

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[Guest guest]

but being chastised for posing a question or attempting to clarify one's thinking will stop that quest for clarification. sk

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: ANG320@...To: skrndc1@..., Subject: Re: question on the 'Got Milk' issueDate: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:51:41 ESTIn a message dated 12/12/2005 9:06:34 PM US Mountain Standard Time, skrndc1@... writes:

How does one, or a group for that matter, refine and define a theory or idea if they can't ask questions without fear of being whomped on for asking it? Your understandings are a asset to this forum but quit stomping on questions posed for curiosity please. That type of thing shuts people down.I don't feel I have stomped on questions or whomped on anyone. When someone poses a question I post my information. I also tend to answer questions on the about level the person poses them. I have no problem with people posing questions if they don't mind me posting information about it. My fear is that we as chiropractors often over exceed our real understanding and knowledge by suggesting conjecture or speculation as fact. I do see a danger in that. Anglen Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!