Re: Life skills program- questions

[Guest guest]

We had a class that folded pizza boxes for pizza stores. Of course they only

did that one entire day a week. And it was an EMR class, where they were

supposed to be learning academics.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

My Breezy is in a Life Skills program in middle school. Because we had

fought so hard and enjoyed a somewhat modified style of inclusion in elementary

school I was not thrilled with this option but recognized it as a way to sit

back

and help her to become comfortable with the new setting on a much larger

campus with many new and different people. Funny thing is that this has been

one

of the best placements we have ever had. The teacher is awesome and Breezy is

thrilled to go into school each day. I spend much more time in the room now

than ever before because this teacher is so intriguing. My child is learning

more now than she did in the lower grades and she loves the experience. We

are undergoing some changes on the school campuses and it was said that this

teacher would be moved to the lower grades next school year. I went straight to

the Sped admin. and gave them three reasons why this would not do, then I went

to the Principal on our campus. By the afternoon the situation was rethought

and she will stay on our Intermediate campus. I keep trying to tell them, if

it ain't broke don't try to fix it. Although I truly believe in inclusion at

it's best, it is important to find what works for your child. Sometimes it

is not the label of placement but those involved in the area of placement. I

hope all is well with your children. Take care and God Bless, GW

[Guest guest]

My Breezy is in a Life Skills program in middle school. Because we had

fought so hard and enjoyed a somewhat modified style of inclusion in elementary

school I was not thrilled with this option but recognized it as a way to sit

back

and help her to become comfortable with the new setting on a much larger

campus with many new and different people. Funny thing is that this has been

one

of the best placements we have ever had. The teacher is awesome and Breezy is

thrilled to go into school each day. I spend much more time in the room now

than ever before because this teacher is so intriguing. My child is learning

more now than she did in the lower grades and she loves the experience. We

are undergoing some changes on the school campuses and it was said that this

teacher would be moved to the lower grades next school year. I went straight to

the Sped admin. and gave them three reasons why this would not do, then I went

to the Principal on our campus. By the afternoon the situation was rethought

and she will stay on our Intermediate campus. I keep trying to tell them, if

it ain't broke don't try to fix it. Although I truly believe in inclusion at

it's best, it is important to find what works for your child. Sometimes it

is not the label of placement but those involved in the area of placement. I

hope all is well with your children. Take care and God Bless, GW

[Guest guest]

The EMR and TMR labels were thrown out of our district years ago. Our life

skills students are students who are included in classrooms with their peers but

also have the option of individual attention for reading, math, etc. The

students have a wide range of abilities. does not fold pizza boxes, stuff

envelopes, or do laundry and he spends most of his time with the life skills

teacher.

I think we do need to advise the younger parents to look at every option, but

let's not make a blanket statement that ALL lifeskills classrooms only teach

life skills. It's just not true. We have peppered 's education over the

years with inclusion and time with the life skills teacher. receives all

academics with the life skills students and will start will vocational skills

possibly one day a week next year......his junior year, outside the school, if

that's what I choose for him. If I don't feel he's ready, then he will continue

with all he is doing now academically.

Explore every option because every school is different. And if they (the

school) are not experienced and properly trained to do inclusion, it can become

a nightmare. Our school district, fortunately, did very well at the elementary

level including . It gets a little trickier as they get older.

Jackie

Jackie

[Guest guest]

The EMR and TMR labels were thrown out of our district years ago. Our life

skills students are students who are included in classrooms with their peers but

also have the option of individual attention for reading, math, etc. The

students have a wide range of abilities. does not fold pizza boxes, stuff

envelopes, or do laundry and he spends most of his time with the life skills

teacher.

I think we do need to advise the younger parents to look at every option, but

let's not make a blanket statement that ALL lifeskills classrooms only teach

life skills. It's just not true. We have peppered 's education over the

years with inclusion and time with the life skills teacher. receives all

academics with the life skills students and will start will vocational skills

possibly one day a week next year......his junior year, outside the school, if

that's what I choose for him. If I don't feel he's ready, then he will continue

with all he is doing now academically.

Explore every option because every school is different. And if they (the

school) are not experienced and properly trained to do inclusion, it can become

a nightmare. Our school district, fortunately, did very well at the elementary

level including . It gets a little trickier as they get older.

Jackie

Jackie

[Guest guest]

Nina,

I do know about small schools not equipted to handle kids with special needs.

As I said my home district is only 600 kids (maybe) in pre k to 12....this

does have some advantages. There is also a school 5 miles away that is actually

a little better but we went with the home school because they do have to provide

the services.

Now there were good years and awful years. LOL If you have other kids in teh

school closer to home you do have a right to have your disabled child in that

school as the first option. You can learn alot from about getting the

services from a school that is reluctant to do what they are supposed to. :-)

There really is not big rush to stick an early elem. child into a life skills

class so far from home unless you really like what you see. Another mom who

successfully got her son back into his home school is Tina, if I recall he went

from a life skills type class where he wasn't getting much academics to a small

school where they were willing to work with him, I believe he's reading now.

Havn't read an update lately, maybe I'll have to go to the dsteen list to see if

she's on there. He was around jr high age I think when he made that transition

into his home school.

It can be done successfully, but you are the one who has to decide which setting

would be best for your child.

If they did the triannial last year why are they testing again? I would think

they'd have enough recent info. on speech and motor skills to write an IEP.

Just my opinion of course.

Joy

Re: Re: Life skills program- questions

Hi Joy,

If you are talking a MDT (triannial review), She had that at the end of her

preschool year. Not this year but last. She wasn't very cooperavtive with the

people evaluating her. Ifn fact she kept going off and doing her own thing. I

think that is where they got the 2 yr old level from.

I want the academics in her IEP.

[Guest guest]

Nina,

I do know about small schools not equipted to handle kids with special needs.

As I said my home district is only 600 kids (maybe) in pre k to 12....this

does have some advantages. There is also a school 5 miles away that is actually

a little better but we went with the home school because they do have to provide

the services.

Now there were good years and awful years. LOL If you have other kids in teh

school closer to home you do have a right to have your disabled child in that

school as the first option. You can learn alot from about getting the

services from a school that is reluctant to do what they are supposed to. :-)

There really is not big rush to stick an early elem. child into a life skills

class so far from home unless you really like what you see. Another mom who

successfully got her son back into his home school is Tina, if I recall he went

from a life skills type class where he wasn't getting much academics to a small

school where they were willing to work with him, I believe he's reading now.

Havn't read an update lately, maybe I'll have to go to the dsteen list to see if

she's on there. He was around jr high age I think when he made that transition

into his home school.

It can be done successfully, but you are the one who has to decide which setting

would be best for your child.

If they did the triannial last year why are they testing again? I would think

they'd have enough recent info. on speech and motor skills to write an IEP.

Just my opinion of course.

Joy

Re: Re: Life skills program- questions

Hi Joy,

If you are talking a MDT (triannial review), She had that at the end of her

preschool year. Not this year but last. She wasn't very cooperavtive with the

people evaluating her. Ifn fact she kept going off and doing her own thing. I

think that is where they got the 2 yr old level from.

I want the academics in her IEP.

[Guest guest]

Did your school system separate kids in preschool classes into those

categories?

Preschoolers here usually have the DD label and preschoolers are in class

together, regardless of their disability or level of functioning. When students

move up to K, then school systems try to assign a different label to use. In

VA, at age 9 you can no longer use DD and must have some other disability label

in order to receive services.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

Did your school system separate kids in preschool classes into those

categories?

Preschoolers here usually have the DD label and preschoolers are in class

together, regardless of their disability or level of functioning. When students

move up to K, then school systems try to assign a different label to use. In

VA, at age 9 you can no longer use DD and must have some other disability label

in order to receive services.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/2/2005 1:26:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,

wildwards@... writes:

move up to K, then school systems try to assign a different label to use. In

VA, at age 9 you can no longer use DD and must have some other disability

label

in order to receive services.

Cheryl in VA

This is also true under IDEA - DD only applies to age 9.

Some states and districts avoid using the DD category as much as possible.

- Becky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/2/2005 1:26:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,

wildwards@... writes:

move up to K, then school systems try to assign a different label to use. In

VA, at age 9 you can no longer use DD and must have some other disability

label

in order to receive services.

Cheryl in VA

This is also true under IDEA - DD only applies to age 9.

Some states and districts avoid using the DD category as much as possible.

- Becky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/2/2005 1:26:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

wildwards@... writes:

In

VA, at age 9 you can no longer use DD and must have some other disability

label

in order to receive services.

That's not the case in ALL areas of Virginia! I live in Northern Virginia,

Loudoun County, and my daughter Shelby had to go through eligibility, not

only once, but twice, at age 5 and 6, to reclassify her, because at age 5 she

was no longer allowed to be under the DD label! The first time around was an

absolute nightmare, and we asked for the decision (she was only found eligible

under the Speech/Language Impairment label mainly because we were not

allowing a Psych evail to be done because we did not want an IQ score in her

file)

to be reviewed. Three months later when it was reviewed, they decided that

Shelby could have the DD label for one more year since we were holding her

back from starting Kindergarten the year she turned 5 due to her late birthday,

September 28! Which basically meant we won the battle, but not the war,

because all it did was make us have to go through the entire process all over

again the following year!

In the end, it all worked out. Shelby has a label (on all of her official

paperwork) of " A Child with a Disability " with a behind the scenes label of

MR. They used our private psych evail which included no IQ score (the

Psychologist from Children's Hospital did not believe in there authenticity in

a

child 5/6 years of age). Perhaps some might feel her official label of " A

Child

with a Disability " is nothing but semantics, why not just have the MR label

on her paperwork, just like why not go ahead and have the IQ score in her

file, but my feeling is I want her seen as a child first and foremost, who just

happens to have a disability!

Sandi -

Mom to Shelby (7w/DS), Stuart (3) and (2)

@ @ @ @ @

,,\)/,,,\)/,,,\)/,,,\)/,,,\)/,,

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/2/2005 4:23:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, Sml524 writes:

That's not the case in ALL areas of Virginia

Yes, it is if you force them to follow state regs. The Virginia state regs

apply to all of Virginia. Your school system didn't tell you the truth about

the DD label.

Cheryl

[Guest guest]

Our labels here are NSH (non-severely handicapped) and CS (Critical

Skills). NSH does academics, CS does not. Don't know if the fold pizza

boxes but was in NSH for preschool to get her services (OT,

APE, Speech), and they recommended full inclusion when she started

kindergarten. But, they did say we should check out NSH, so we knew

what it was about. We didn't, because at her transition meeting the

entire team recommended full inclusion, but in discussions with the

team, it was pretty clear that CS didn't do much in the way of

academics, but focused on life skills (even though they don't call it that).

I think from what people are writing, it seems like MOST life skills

classes do not focus an academics....... you are very fortunate your son

is receiving such a good education in the program at your school. But,

as has been said over and over, it is working because YOU checked out

the program first, and have made sure what you want for your son is

happening there, which is the basic message that needs to be passed to

parents just starting the school journey......

1) Check out all your options

2) Decide what you think is best for YOUR (remember that I, in IEP) child

3) Figure out how to make it happen

, mom to (9), (7 DS), and (5)

jbocci55@... wrote:

>The EMR and TMR labels were thrown out of our district years ago. Our life

skills students are students who are included in classrooms with their peers but

also have the option of individual attention for reading, math, etc. The

students have a wide range of abilities. does not fold pizza boxes, stuff

envelopes, or do laundry and he spends most of his time with the life skills

teacher.

>

>I think we do need to advise the younger parents to look at every option, but

let's not make a blanket statement that ALL lifeskills classrooms only teach

life skills. It's just not true. We have peppered 's education over the

years with inclusion and time with the life skills teacher. receives all

academics with the life skills students and will start will vocational skills

possibly one day a week next year......his junior year, outside the school, if

that's what I choose for him. If I don't feel he's ready, then he will continue

with all he is doing now academically.

>

>Explore every option because every school is different. And if they (the

school) are not experienced and properly trained to do inclusion, it can become

a nightmare. Our school district, fortunately, did very well at the elementary

level including . It gets a little trickier as they get older.

>

>Jackie

>

>Jackie

>

>

[Guest guest]

Our labels here are NSH (non-severely handicapped) and CS (Critical

Skills). NSH does academics, CS does not. Don't know if the fold pizza

boxes but was in NSH for preschool to get her services (OT,

APE, Speech), and they recommended full inclusion when she started

kindergarten. But, they did say we should check out NSH, so we knew

what it was about. We didn't, because at her transition meeting the

entire team recommended full inclusion, but in discussions with the

team, it was pretty clear that CS didn't do much in the way of

academics, but focused on life skills (even though they don't call it that).

I think from what people are writing, it seems like MOST life skills

classes do not focus an academics....... you are very fortunate your son

is receiving such a good education in the program at your school. But,

as has been said over and over, it is working because YOU checked out

the program first, and have made sure what you want for your son is

happening there, which is the basic message that needs to be passed to

parents just starting the school journey......

1) Check out all your options

2) Decide what you think is best for YOUR (remember that I, in IEP) child

3) Figure out how to make it happen

, mom to (9), (7 DS), and (5)

jbocci55@... wrote:

>The EMR and TMR labels were thrown out of our district years ago. Our life

skills students are students who are included in classrooms with their peers but

also have the option of individual attention for reading, math, etc. The

students have a wide range of abilities. does not fold pizza boxes, stuff

envelopes, or do laundry and he spends most of his time with the life skills

teacher.

>

>I think we do need to advise the younger parents to look at every option, but

let's not make a blanket statement that ALL lifeskills classrooms only teach

life skills. It's just not true. We have peppered 's education over the

years with inclusion and time with the life skills teacher. receives all

academics with the life skills students and will start will vocational skills

possibly one day a week next year......his junior year, outside the school, if

that's what I choose for him. If I don't feel he's ready, then he will continue

with all he is doing now academically.

>

>Explore every option because every school is different. And if they (the

school) are not experienced and properly trained to do inclusion, it can become

a nightmare. Our school district, fortunately, did very well at the elementary

level including . It gets a little trickier as they get older.

>

>Jackie

>

>Jackie

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/2/2005 6:07:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

leslie-kerrigan@... writes:

Whew, just thinking about the preschool ratrace makes me tired again :-)

Tell me about it!!! I have one more year of morning school services for

ST/OT/PT and afternoons of typical nursery school everyday of the week. And I

gotta tell ya, I am looking forward to regular school, it has to be easier.

But I would run forever if it made the difference for my little guy.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/2/2005 5:29:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

wildwards@... writes:

Your school system didn't tell you the truth about

the DD label.

That may be the case. It's water under the bridge now. However, from what

I remember, without having the regs right in front of me, they (the regs, not

the school system) said that the DD label was to go up to age 5 to 8, and it

was at the County's discretion. I do remember those involved stating that

at one time it was as high as age 9, but that had changed, and in fact the age

range of 5 to 8 had changed back and forth several times over the years.

I did the best I could at the time with my research. With Shelby being my

first child, I don't really even know how to maneuver through the " normal "

school system, let alone the special ed. system. It's all a learning process.

Sandi -

Mom to Shelby (7w/DS), Stuart (3) and (2)

@ @ @ @ @

,,\)/,,,\)/,,,\)/,,,\)/,,,\)/,,

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/2/2005 6:08:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

leslie-kerrigan@... writes:

This does not preclude her from getting all the

services she needs (OT, APE, etc.) just because her " box " is SLI. It is

worded as her " primary disability " , but all areas are covered in the IEP.

As it would not have in Shelby's case. However, I felt (and was told by

some on my team) that there would always be a way for them to try and reduce,

and possibly eventually eliminate some of her other services if she were to be

found eligible under speech and language impairment only. That was a risk

that I was not willing to take. Just as I too (agreeing with you and others)

am not willing to take the risk that someone would under (or over for that

matter) estimate her abilities simply based on a number (IQ score)!

It's all semantics, and a big " game " , that we each play in a slightly

different way, but all with the same objective...to " win " what is best for our

children!

Sandi -

Mom to Shelby (7w/DS), Stuart (3) and (2)

@ @ @ @ @

,,\)/,,,\)/,,,\)/,,,\)/,,,\)/,,

[Guest guest]

Hi Sandi - the school system took 's DS evals from KKI before he even

had the private psych eval for eligibility. He does have the MR label - but

at his last triannual, I just said those extra chromosomes have not

disappeared yet and he still had Down syndrome with mental retardation -

they actually laughed and we moved along. I did insist that the OHI be

added. Sandy, who is your Sped supervisor in your area? If it's Arlene,

she has a child with a disability and as a parent, refused to sign his IEP 2

years ago.

ps we need to do a mom's dinner out again!

> In

> VA, at age 9 you can no longer use DD and must have some other disability

> label

> in order to receive services.

>

>

>

> That's not the case in ALL areas of Virginia! I live in Northern

Virginia,

> Loudoun County, and my daughter Shelby had to go through eligibility, not

> only once, but twice, at age 5 and 6, to reclassify her, because at age 5

she

> was no longer allowed to be under the DD label! The first time around

was an

> absolute nightmare, and we asked for the decision (she was only found

eligible

> under the Speech/Language Impairment label mainly because we were not

> allowing a Psych evail to be done because we did not want an IQ score in

her file)

> to be reviewed. Three months later when it was reviewed, they decided

that

> Shelby could have the DD label for one more year since we were holding

her

> back from starting Kindergarten the year she turned 5 due to her late

birthday,

> September 28! Which basically meant we won the battle, but not the war,

> because all it did was make us have to go through the entire process all

over

> again the following year!

>

> In the end, it all worked out. Shelby has a label (on all of her

official

> paperwork) of " A Child with a Disability " with a behind the scenes label

of

> MR. They used our private psych evail which included no IQ score (the

> Psychologist from Children's Hospital did not believe in there

authenticity in a

> child 5/6 years of age). Perhaps some might feel her official label of

" A Child

> with a Disability " is nothing but semantics, why not just have the MR

label

> on her paperwork, just like why not go ahead and have the IQ score in her

> file, but my feeling is I want her seen as a child first and foremost, who

just

> happens to have a disability!

>

> Sandi -

> Mom to Shelby (7w/DS), Stuart (3) and (2)

> @ @ @ @ @

> ,,\)/,,,\)/,,,\)/,,,\)/,,,\)/,,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

When was born (in MD), she was labeled DD. When we moved to

CA when she was 16 monts, I believe her " primary disability " was DD

(that paperwork is filed in the attic, LOL). When we transitioned to

the school district at age 3, DD was no longer an option (I distincly

remember the school psych on the preschool assessment team trying to

sugar-coat checking the MR box, and writing Developmental Delay next to

the words Mental Retardation..... I was clueless at that point to why

she was making a big deal of semantics). By 's first trienial

(age 4, since we had moved), I had become more aware of the differences

in " what box was checked " , and without IQ testing (which I had told them

they could not do), I asked them how they could check MR. Turns out,

they were actually concerned about that because the assessments the

teacher and therapists showed delays in many areas, but her pre-reading

and pre-math skills were not too bad..... said, " well, if we check MR as

primary disability and anyone looks at her assessments, they might

wonder if this is actually the case. " So, we agreed at that point that

her " Primary Disability " (which is the way they write the list of

qualifying handicapping conditions on our IEP forms) would be Speech and

Language Impaired. This does not preclude her from getting all the

services she needs (OT, APE, etc.) just because her " box " is SLI. It is

worded as her " primary disability " , but all areas are covered in the IEP.

In answer to your preschool question, when we transitioned from EI to

the district, we had a disappointing number of options. She could go to

special day preschool, and receive education, OT, APE, Speech, etc.

Ratios were pretty good, though they had no official limits on number

of kids, and as the year went on, the class got larger (more kids turned

3)..... it worried me, but it worked out OK each year. She could have

attended an " Intensive Language " program, but then we would have had to

try and get other services delivered itinerantly, which didn't sound

good to me..... trying to drive all over the district to get everything

at different school. She could have TRIED to get into one of the

Headstart preschools (they apparently must take a certain number of kids

with IEPs), but them she would not have received speech, etc. So, we

ended up doing this: From turning 3 in Jan until June - Special day

2x/week, typical preschool 1x/week; Next school year (beginning at age

3y8mo), Special Day 3x/week (am), typical preschool 2x/week (pm); Next

school year (beginning at age 4y8mo) Special day 3x/week (am), typical

preschool 3x/week (pm). It was hectic, we had to pay for the typical

preschools (but I looked at it like we paid this for our other kids as

well), but she learned a lot from both environments.

Whew, just thinking about the preschool ratrace makes me tired again :-)

, mom to (9), (7 DS), and (5)

Wildwards@... wrote:

> Did your school system separate kids in preschool classes into those

> categories?

> Preschoolers here usually have the DD label and preschoolers are in

> class together, regardless of their disability or level of

> functioning. When students move up to K, then school systems try to

> assign a different label to use. In VA, at age 9 you can no longer use

> DD and must have some other disability label in order to receive services.

> Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

No. It's an included classroom. But that is only because there is only one

preschool program. The teacher who graduated collgeg with a Sp Ed degree can't

even sign to Ashlee beyond a few simple signs that she knows. I have her Speech

therapist sign, plus an assistant who signs works with Ashlee. The teacher is

an incompentent woman. I asked her for 5 months for information on LS!!! And all

I got was an I dunno and I'll try to get you info but I've never seen the

program, I might go this summer and observe...

Honestly, if the LS is even a hint better. I'll probably send her. If I had the

money, both kids would either be in private school or have a tutor. I'm not good

at getting my oldest to understand her homework. Otherwise, I'd probably home

school them.

Nina

wildwards@... wrote:

Did your school system separate kids in preschool classes into those

categories?

Preschoolers here usually have the DD label and preschoolers are in class

together, regardless of their disability or level of functioning. When students

move up to K, then school systems try to assign a different label to use. In

VA, at age 9 you can no longer use DD and must have some other disability label

in order to receive services.

Cheryl in VA

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[Guest guest]

No. It's an included classroom. But that is only because there is only one

preschool program. The teacher who graduated collgeg with a Sp Ed degree can't

even sign to Ashlee beyond a few simple signs that she knows. I have her Speech

therapist sign, plus an assistant who signs works with Ashlee. The teacher is

an incompentent woman. I asked her for 5 months for information on LS!!! And all

I got was an I dunno and I'll try to get you info but I've never seen the

program, I might go this summer and observe...

Honestly, if the LS is even a hint better. I'll probably send her. If I had the

money, both kids would either be in private school or have a tutor. I'm not good

at getting my oldest to understand her homework. Otherwise, I'd probably home

school them.

Nina

wildwards@... wrote:

Did your school system separate kids in preschool classes into those

categories?

Preschoolers here usually have the DD label and preschoolers are in class

together, regardless of their disability or level of functioning. When students

move up to K, then school systems try to assign a different label to use. In

VA, at age 9 you can no longer use DD and must have some other disability label

in order to receive services.

Cheryl in VA

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