I need some information

[Guest guest]

Hi Ann:

Normally people involved in CBT have homework. Have you seen your son

doing homework? The best treatment for OCD is E & RP, a specialized form of

CBT. Telling an OCDer to ignore their thoughts is only likely to make them

obsess more. What they have to do is consider their fears are actually

happening (imaginal exposure) or even better have a real (in vivo) exposure

to their fears. This needs to be done in a graduated and organized

fashion. Typically homework may also involve the family as many of our

kids suffer worst with OCD at home where they are more relaxed as OCD comes

and gets them when their defences are down.

Breathing techniques are helpful for some anxiety disorders but usually not

for OCD. In fact some published research uses relaxation techniques like

breathing as the control group (i.e. untreated) to compare the treatment

modality under study. In real life I can tell you that Steve would get

pretty agitated when he was encouraged to relax and OCD was bossing him

around big time. We even have customized relaxation tapes from one

therapist who tried this with him (she also claimed to be experienced with

OCD!). I know the March protocol includes relaxation; perhaps this is

because many of our kids have other comorbid anxiety disorders, e.g. PTSD

which can get in the way of doing E & RP successfully.

Pure " O " OCD is considered by many docs to be a situation where if you look

closely enough you find mental rituals which are engaged in to reduce

anxiety. For example when reading a " bad " word they may go back and start

at the beginning of the page until they get to a good word to " neutralize "

the bad word. Steve has had problems with re-reading and, other than

noticing he was not reading much or was not finishing his books, I would

not have known it was OCD unless I knew about these common mental rituals.

Keeping busy and distracting yourself is not bad advice, especially if it

involves physical activity. However I noticed this was not very effective

when Steve was very sick with OCD. It just consumed him and he was trying

very hard to distract himself with Gameboy until his fingers hurt, since

nothing else seemed powerful enough to quieten his obsessions.

Do you know what thoughts your son has about reading? It would be helpful

to know this to deliver some cognitive therapy. Just understanding that

OCD is a no-fault disorder, giving it a name/making it separate from your

child and developing his understanding and recognition when OCD is making

him do/think something rather than when he is in charge are all ways of

doing cognitive therapy. I am sure Dr. Chansky can make more specific

recommendations.

It sounds like you need to discuss the goals of therapy with your son's

therapist. Why not make and appointment and ask them what their game plan

is, how many sessions they need and what goals and measurable objectives

they suggest for treatment?

I am going through CBT right now for depression myself. I get regular

homework, reading assignments, writing assignments, activities to follow

through on and my therapist asked me what my goals are and we check how it

is coming along. Anyone familiar with CBT/CT should be willing to do

something similar with you. It is an outcome-oriented kind of therapy

aimed at helping people understand how they think and behave affects how

they feel. YOu cannot always control how you think nor how you feel, but

you can control how you behave, including " beating yourself up " with

interpreting thoughts negatively. As you change the way you behave, the

way you think starts to change and then the way you feel starts to change.

Sometimes we get stuck and need help.

Good luck, take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 11:45 PM 07/06/2000 +0000, you wrote:

> I am not seeing my son's psychologist doing any Cognitive Therapy. I

>ask my son what he does in his office and he says he asks him what

>his thoughts are and tells him to ignore them and do his breathing

>techniques and keep busey. So far that has been it! From a well known

>Doctor who is suppose to specialize in OCD!

> Can someone tell me with my son having obsessive thoughts no rituals

>just thoughts how would a psychologist go about using Cognitive

>therapy, his thoughts central around one of his favorite things and

>that is reading. I would really appriciate anyones input here. Thanks!

>

> Ann

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

The only homework my son ever had was to write down his thoughts

and that was at the beginning. I can tell you there has not been

anything like what you explained done with my son.

I was wrong saying his OCD was just from reading,I drew a blank and

forgot how it when he gets upset he thinks he must discuss the

incident and say I am sorry a thousand times or else something bad

will happen. With reading he reads Star Wars novels and he is a

christian and his thoughts tell him that if he reads the novels he is

antichrist or hes not a christian,he has since then bought different

books as the Doctor suggested.

You are right on keeping busey. My son's OCD is very severe and the

thoughts are so strong that he can't do much of anything but cry.

I don't know where else to look for a psychologist if this one does

not pan out. We live in a small town and we have been down this road

before with Psychologist that we wonder if there is any out there

that really do CBT the way you describe it.

Ann

> Hi Ann:

>

> Normally people involved in CBT have homework. Have you seen your

son

> doing homework? The best treatment for OCD is E & RP, a specialized

form of

> CBT. Telling an OCDer to ignore their thoughts is only likely to

make them

> obsess more. What they have to do is consider their fears are

actually

> happening (imaginal exposure) or even better have a real (in vivo)

exposure

> to their fears. This needs to be done in a graduated and organized

> fashion. Typically homework may also involve the family as many of

our

> kids suffer worst with OCD at home where they are more relaxed as

OCD comes

> and gets them when their defences are down.

>

> Breathing techniques are helpful for some anxiety disorders but

usually not

> for OCD. In fact some published research uses relaxation

techniques like

> breathing as the control group (i.e. untreated) to compare the

treatment

> modality under study. In real life I can tell you that Steve would

get

> pretty agitated when he was encouraged to relax and OCD was bossing

him

> around big time. We even have customized relaxation tapes from one

> therapist who tried this with him (she also claimed to be

experienced with

> OCD!). I know the March protocol includes relaxation; perhaps

this is

> because many of our kids have other comorbid anxiety disorders,

e.g. PTSD

> which can get in the way of doing E & RP successfully.

>

> Pure " O " OCD is considered by many docs to be a situation where if

you look

> closely enough you find mental rituals which are engaged in to

reduce

> anxiety. For example when reading a " bad " word they may go back

and start

> at the beginning of the page until they get to a good word to

" neutralize "

> the bad word. Steve has had problems with re-reading and, other

than

> noticing he was not reading much or was not finishing his books, I

would

> not have known it was OCD unless I knew about these common mental

rituals.

>

> Keeping busy and distracting yourself is not bad advice, especially

if it

> involves physical activity. However I noticed this was not very

effective

> when Steve was very sick with OCD. It just consumed him and he was

trying

> very hard to distract himself with Gameboy until his fingers hurt,

since

> nothing else seemed powerful enough to quieten his obsessions.

>

> Do you know what thoughts your son has about reading? It would be

helpful

> to know this to deliver some cognitive therapy. Just understanding

that

> OCD is a no-fault disorder, giving it a name/making it separate

from your

> child and developing his understanding and recognition when OCD is

making

> him do/think something rather than when he is in charge are all

ways of

> doing cognitive therapy. I am sure Dr. Chansky can make more

specific

> recommendations.

>

> It sounds like you need to discuss the goals of therapy with your

son's

> therapist. Why not make and appointment and ask them what their

game plan

> is, how many sessions they need and what goals and measurable

objectives

> they suggest for treatment?

>

> I am going through CBT right now for depression myself. I get

regular

> homework, reading assignments, writing assignments, activities to

follow

> through on and my therapist asked me what my goals are and we check

how it

> is coming along. Anyone familiar with CBT/CT should be willing to

do

> something similar with you. It is an outcome-oriented kind of

therapy

> aimed at helping people understand how they think and behave

affects how

> they feel. YOu cannot always control how you think nor how you

feel, but

> you can control how you behave, including " beating yourself up " with

> interpreting thoughts negatively. As you change the way you

behave, the

> way you think starts to change and then the way you feel starts to

change.

> Sometimes we get stuck and need help.

>

> Good luck, take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

> kathyh@i...

>

> At 11:45 PM 07/06/2000 +0000, you wrote:

> > I am not seeing my son's psychologist doing any Cognitive

Therapy. I

> >ask my son what he does in his office and he says he asks him what

> >his thoughts are and tells him to ignore them and do his breathing

> >techniques and keep busey. So far that has been it! From a well

known

> >Doctor who is suppose to specialize in OCD!

> > Can someone tell me with my son having obsessive thoughts no

rituals

> >just thoughts how would a psychologist go about using Cognitive

> >therapy, his thoughts central around one of his favorite things

and

> >that is reading. I would really appriciate anyones input here.

Thanks!

> >

> > Ann

[Guest guest]

HI Ann:

I am sorry you are struggling so much to find a therapist locally. Have

you considered travelling to find one? This is what we did and he then

helped us find someone locally he could train to do E & RP with Steve on our

island.

Unfortunately not reading books that upset your son is not the best

approach to this problem. It is known as avoidance and does not help the

OCD sufferer to learn to control their symptoms. In a graduated way they

have to learn how to cope with the anxiety they get from reading these

books. It sounds like your son has scrupulosity and many therapists find

this is best treated using a team approach involving a religious

advisor/counselor whom the sufferer trust to be their moral compass. First

they need to understand and accept that their own moral compass is not

working properly due to OCD so they can trust the advisor. THe religious

advisor needs to be someone who understands OCD and can work with the CBT

therapist.

Steve has non-religious scrupulosity and he told me he thought he was just

a bad kid when he first started to suffer from OCD. Doing a bit of

cognitive work with him to teach him that OCD is a brain disorder and that

his brain was sending error messages and letting him know how loved he is

helped. The paradoxical approach has also been helpful as it lightens up

the situation and helps them reorient their perspective fairly rapidly.

Also explaining that everyone gets odd thoughts flashing in and that the

problem for people with OCD is that they interpret these thoughts as having

meaning that they just don't can help them.

Saying he is sorry is a very common ritual and you might be able to

encourage your son to limit his apologizing as a start to getting his OCD

under control. Do you have a copy of the March protocol? IMO every parent

of a child with OCD should read this book to understand about the

first-line treatment for OCD in kids.

Good luck, take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 02:47 PM 07/07/2000 +0000, you wrote:

> Kathy,

> The only homework my son ever had was to write down his thoughts

>and that was at the beginning. I can tell you there has not been

>anything like what you explained done with my son.

> I was wrong saying his OCD was just from reading,I drew a blank and

>forgot how it when he gets upset he thinks he must discuss the

>incident and say I am sorry a thousand times or else something bad

>will happen. With reading he reads Star Wars novels and he is a

>christian and his thoughts tell him that if he reads the novels he is

>antichrist or hes not a christian,he has since then bought different

>books as the Doctor suggested.

> You are right on keeping busey. My son's OCD is very severe and the

>thoughts are so strong that he can't do much of anything but cry.

> I don't know where else to look for a psychologist if this one does

>not pan out. We live in a small town and we have been down this road

>before with Psychologist that we wonder if there is any out there

>that really do CBT the way you describe it.

>

> Ann

[Guest guest]

My daughter has bumps in the bones on her skull, on the sides, top,

back and the forehead. She wasn't born with the bones like this, it

just happened over time for some reason. she's being tested for

McCune Albright Syndrome because she also has cafe au lait coast of

maine spots and has many signs of early puberty and her thyroid

bounces around from hypo to hyper. she is supposed to undergo a full

body bone scan next week and I think it will be a very hard

proceedure for her to undergo. she is a 4 person hold down for

bloodwork and we can't even attempt to get ecg's or echo's done on

her, she rips out IV lines the moment she opens her eyes in recovery.

so I think having her undergo this proceedure, while awake, will be

very hard on her. They put in an IV and she has to keep it in for

two hours and then she has a 90 min scan. I guess my question to

everyone here is this: do any of the children here with Down

syndrome have bumpy bones on their skulls that developed as they grew

and do any of the kids here have McCune Albright Syndrome?

Cheryl