Re: Fw: [aca-members] No to Unity

[Guest guest]

-

Vern,

I enjojed the day at Capitol immensely especially meeting up with many of my

colleages. Very powerful bond building!

As to Dr. JC from ACA listserve I was thoroughly disgusted with this guys

assesment of the ICA and WCA. When you mention BJ as just another vender with a

financial bias I think it is obvious a few screws are loose somewhere. And to

speak of folks like Guy Riekerman and Don on as though they were just

salesman promoting there own selfish agenda is utterly redidulous. I have

personally known Don on for nearly 20 years and and I don't believe

anyone has fought harder to defend the good name of Chiropractic than he has.

I believe it is garbage such as that written by Dr. that is preventing

Chiropractors from comming together for the common good of all. We need to

focus on our similarities rather than our obvious differences.

United we will be great as a profession.

Schneider DC

---- [aca-members] No to Unity

>

>

>While many ACA members may agree with McLemore's call for unity,

>including myself years ago, after lengthy conversations with Jerry

>Mcs, I subsequently learned these " loonies " in the ICA and WCA are not

>equitable to the ACA as a member-driven organization sincerely interested in

>unity or legislative/academic progress in any fashion.

>

>The ACA members and independent (scab?) DCs in the field must realize that

>the ICA and WCA are vendor-driven orgs aimed at promoting the business

>interests of their leaders, all of whom are vendors with obvious conflicts

>of interest, such as: CJ Mertz, Dan , Terry Wrongberg, Bob Braille,

>Big $id , Guy Riekeman, Don on, Tom Klapp, etc. To read more

>on their conflicts of interest, logon to www.StopRondberg.org and read and

>weep how these self-serving entrepreneurs are ruining our profession as they

>do the Money Hum.

>

>While these Evil Vendors wrap themselves in the banner of chirovangelism

>preaching the gospel of BJ (another vendor with conflicts of interest), it

>is simply a ruse to camouflage their conflicts of interest; they have no

>interest in unity or a nationwide democratic election because they would be

>relegated to the margins with their chiro cultism. It's simply a smokescreen

>to sell their products: they care about Innatism about as much as Saddam

>cared about Allah--he only used it to his political advantage to stir the

>emotions/prejudices of Muslims, which is the nature of demagoguery. Their

>passion is phony and their motives are obvious: to make money at our

>expense.

>

>Speaking of Evil Vendors molding this profession to their profit and our

>demise, I have problems with any vendor influencing in our profession,

>including the ACA's favorites like Sanna, Greenawalt, Markson, etc. We

>harshly criticize the drug companies when they exert influence in medical

>education and practice, so how is it any different when Greenawalt and Sanna

>take the lead in the new PR effort (which will fail unless we do a tabula

>rasa first). Just because they have money to burn doesn't mean they should

>take the lead in our affairs, plus some of us have serious ethical questions

>about their modus operandi.

>

>Instead of uniting with Evil Vendors in the ICA and WCA, I suggest the ACA

>unite with reputable orgs like the FCLB, NBCE, FCER, CCE and individuals who

>understand this situation and create a new image for DCs. " Isolate the

>rascals " as Mcs said last year at NCLC. Let's create a new Code

>of Ethics for DCs who refuse to preach Innatism, refuse to use gimmicks like

>free exams, NOOPE, TWIP, coding schemes or phony MD/DC practices.

>

>Let's promote evidence-based care for NMS disorders; let's tell the public

>we are non-drug, non-surgical back doctors, not PCPs, not phony wellness

>doctors or pediatricians, etc. If you've read the polls, the public accepts

>us in this role exclusively! While some DCs with advanced degrees may

>specialize in other roles, as a whole the public is clear about our image

>and identity, but we DCs are still confused.

>

>So, forget about unity with Mertz or Wrongberg--that would be going to bed

>with the enemy, not our friends.

>

>But, what do I know?

>

>JCS

>Dr. JC

>Lord of the Galactic Online Alliance

> " May the Life Force be with you, ya folla? "

>www.GalacticOnlineAlliance.org

>Dr. JC

>Lord of the Galactic Online Alliance

> " May the Life Force be with you, ya folla? "

>www.GalacticOnlineAlliance.org

>______________________________________________________

>

>NOTICE: The ACA reminds all those utilizing the ACA email discussion sites

>that ACA email discussion policies prohibit the posting of certain

>information including statements that may be construed to be defamatory,

>abusive or actionable under the antitrust laws( including the discussion of

>fees or calls to boycott). Members are urged to review the full set of

>E-Mail discussion policies at

>http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members. Your cooperation in

>complying with these policies is appreciated.

>---------------------------------------------------------

>ACA-members mailing list

>To post to the list:

>ACA-members@...

>To unsubscribe or change membership options:

>http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members

>List options tutorial:

>http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=

>Email filters tutorial:

>http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=

>

>

>

>

>

>OregonDCs rules:

>1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster

communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be

tolerated.

>2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

>3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it

is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise

distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent,

unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>

[Guest guest]

Understood Will....just wanted to see where folks are at....however I do

believe it is wishful thinking to believe the Terry Romberg's of the

chiropractic world will ever bring us together.

As per Don I went to school with him, his brother, and Dan quality

guys that should not be placed in the same box.

It was as great day!

Vern

[aca-members] No to Unity

>>

>>

>>While many ACA members may agree with McLemore's call for unity,

>>including myself years ago, after lengthy conversations with Jerry

>>Mcs, I subsequently learned these " loonies " in the ICA and WCA are

>>not

>>equitable to the ACA as a member-driven organization sincerely interested

>>in

>>unity or legislative/academic progress in any fashion.

>>

>>The ACA members and independent (scab?) DCs in the field must realize that

>>the ICA and WCA are vendor-driven orgs aimed at promoting the business

>>interests of their leaders, all of whom are vendors with obvious conflicts

>>of interest, such as: CJ Mertz, Dan , Terry Wrongberg, Bob Braille,

>>Big $id , Guy Riekeman, Don on, Tom Klapp, etc. To read more

>>on their conflicts of interest, logon to www.StopRondberg.org and read and

>>weep how these self-serving entrepreneurs are ruining our profession as

>>they

>>do the Money Hum.

>>

>>While these Evil Vendors wrap themselves in the banner of chirovangelism

>>preaching the gospel of BJ (another vendor with conflicts of interest), it

>>is simply a ruse to camouflage their conflicts of interest; they have no

>>interest in unity or a nationwide democratic election because they would

>>be

>>relegated to the margins with their chiro cultism. It's simply a

>>smokescreen

>>to sell their products: they care about Innatism about as much as Saddam

>>cared about Allah--he only used it to his political advantage to stir the

>>emotions/prejudices of Muslims, which is the nature of demagoguery. Their

>>passion is phony and their motives are obvious: to make money at our

>>expense.

>>

>>Speaking of Evil Vendors molding this profession to their profit and our

>>demise, I have problems with any vendor influencing in our profession,

>>including the ACA's favorites like Sanna, Greenawalt, Markson, etc. We

>>harshly criticize the drug companies when they exert influence in medical

>>education and practice, so how is it any different when Greenawalt and

>>Sanna

>>take the lead in the new PR effort (which will fail unless we do a tabula

>>rasa first). Just because they have money to burn doesn't mean they should

>>take the lead in our affairs, plus some of us have serious ethical

>>questions

>>about their modus operandi.

>>

>>Instead of uniting with Evil Vendors in the ICA and WCA, I suggest the ACA

>>unite with reputable orgs like the FCLB, NBCE, FCER, CCE and individuals

>>who

>>understand this situation and create a new image for DCs. " Isolate the

>>rascals " as Mcs said last year at NCLC. Let's create a new

>>Code

>>of Ethics for DCs who refuse to preach Innatism, refuse to use gimmicks

>>like

>>free exams, NOOPE, TWIP, coding schemes or phony MD/DC practices.

>>

>>Let's promote evidence-based care for NMS disorders; let's tell the public

>>we are non-drug, non-surgical back doctors, not PCPs, not phony wellness

>>doctors or pediatricians, etc. If you've read the polls, the public

>>accepts

>>us in this role exclusively! While some DCs with advanced degrees may

>>specialize in other roles, as a whole the public is clear about our image

>>and identity, but we DCs are still confused.

>>

>>So, forget about unity with Mertz or Wrongberg--that would be going to bed

>>with the enemy, not our friends.

>>

>>But, what do I know?

>>

>>JCS

>>Dr. JC

>>Lord of the Galactic Online Alliance

>> " May the Life Force be with you, ya folla? "

>>www.GalacticOnlineAlliance.org

>>Dr. JC

>>Lord of the Galactic Online Alliance

>> " May the Life Force be with you, ya folla? "

>>www.GalacticOnlineAlliance.org

>>______________________________________________________

>>

>>NOTICE: The ACA reminds all those utilizing the ACA email discussion sites

>>that ACA email discussion policies prohibit the posting of certain

>>information including statements that may be construed to be defamatory,

>>abusive or actionable under the antitrust laws( including the discussion

>>of

>>fees or calls to boycott). Members are urged to review the full set of

>>E-Mail discussion policies at

>>http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members. Your cooperation

>>in

>>complying with these policies is appreciated.

>>---------------------------------------------------------

>>ACA-members mailing list

>>To post to the list:

>>ACA-members@...

>>To unsubscribe or change membership options:

>>http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members

>>List options tutorial:

>>http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=

>>Email filters tutorial:

>>http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>OregonDCs rules:

>>1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

>>foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve

>>members will be tolerated.

>>2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

>>3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.

>>However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward,

>>or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without

>>his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>>

[Guest guest]

So Vern

If you disagree so much with Mr. , let's see your rebuttal to his misguided epistle. It was amusing to read his diatribe, because he immediately falls into name-calling, innuendo, and guilt by association. As far as I am concerned, he lost all credibility with me once he crossed that line. It reminds me of a second grader that can't make his point any other way because he has yet to learn that there is something called a vocabulary and logical sentence structure. It also appears that he has yet to learn that one must make valid points with reasoned thought, rather than ranting emotional rhetoric and unfounded accusation.

As for me, 's diatribe is just another example of someone who is free-associating their own "thoughts" and letting them ooze out on the page. He should have just let it all out in the shower like most of it and moved on with his day. His rant lends nothing to unifying our profession or making a positive change in anyone's consciousness. It only continues to widen the division that the medical profession started inside Chiropractic 50+ years ago.

I had to chuckle when insinuates that the ACA, and its members, is the bastion of truth and ethics in Chiropractic. That is like saying that Bill Clinton and W. Bush have always been truthful with the American public. No one or any organization is without the weird side. Come-on, please!

It is time to cool off, accept our Chiropractic colleagues as the diverse bunch of individual artists that we all are. We can disagree with each other without animosity or rancor. That is known as respect. The degree you respect others reflects on your own inner respect. Those that grunt the loudest about the "short-comings" of another have a lot of inner work to catch up on themselves. Take all that any of the self-appointed "spokes-persons" or "experts" say with a big grain of salt. They all have something to sell. That's my 2-cents worth.

Have a happy Super-Bowl Sunday and let's hope there is enough subluxation free Philly Eagles players to pull off a win.

Life is too short to be mean and angry. Be cool, eat well in moderation, think good thoughts, get regular adjustments, be kind to yourselves and your neighbors, and love each other like there is no tomorrow.

Ray, DC

--------- [aca-members] No to Unity>>>>>>While many ACA members may agree with McLemore's call for unity,>>including myself years ago, after lengthy conversations with Jerry>>Mcs, I subsequently learned these "loonies" in the ICA and WCA are>>not>>equitable to the ACA as a member-driven organization sincerely interested>>in>>unity or legislative/academic progress in any fashion.>>>>The ACA members and independent (scab?) DCs in the field must realize that>>the ICA and WCA are vendor-driven orgs aimed at promoting the business>>interests of their leaders, all of whom are vendors with obvious conflicts>>of interest, such as: CJ Mertz, Dan , Terry Wrongberg, Bob Braille,>>Big $id , Guy Riekeman, Don on, Tom Klapp, etc. To read more>>on their conflicts of interest, logon to www.StopRondberg.org and read and>>weep how these self-serving entrepreneurs are ruining our profession as>>they>>do the Money Hum.>>>>While these Evil Vendors wrap themselves in the banner of chirovangelism>>preaching the gospel of BJ (another vendor with conflicts of interest), it>>is simply a ruse to camouflage their conflicts of interest; they have no>>interest in unity or a nationwide democratic election because they would>>be>>relegated to the margins with their chiro cultism. It's simply a>>smokescreen>>to sell their products: they care about Innatism about as much as Saddam>>cared about Allah--he only used it to his political advantage to stir the>>emotions/prejudices of Muslims, which is the nature of demagoguery. Their>>passion is phony and their motives are obvious: to make money at our>>expense.>>>>Speaking of Evil Vendors molding this profession to their profit and our>>demise, I have problems with any vendor influencing in our profession,>>including the ACA's favorites like Sanna, Greenawalt, Markson, etc. We>>harshly criticize the drug companies when they exert influence in medical>>education and practice, so how is it any different when Greenawalt and>>Sanna>>take the lead in the new PR effort (which will fail unless we do a tabula>>rasa first). Just because they have money to burn doesn't mean they should>>take the lead in our affairs, plus some of us have serious ethical>>questions>>about their modus operandi.>>>>Instead of uniting with Evil Vendors in the ICA and WCA, I suggest the ACA>>unite with reputable orgs like the FCLB, NBCE, FCER, CCE and individuals>>who>>understand this situation and create a new image for DCs. "Isolate the>>rascals" as Mcs said last year at NCLC. Let's create a new>>Code>>of Ethics for DCs who refuse to preach Innatism, refuse to use gimmicks>>like>>free exams, NOOPE, TWIP, coding schemes or phony MD/DC practices.>>>>Let's promote evidence-based care for NMS disorders; let's tell the public>>we are non-drug, non-surgical back doctors, not PCPs, not phony wellness>>doctors or pediatricians, etc. If you've read the polls, the public>>accepts>>us in this role exclusively! While some DCs with advanced degrees may>>specialize in other roles, as a whole the public is clear about our image>>and identity, but we DCs are still confused.>>>>So, forget about unity with Mertz or Wrongberg--that would be going to bed>>with the enemy, not our friends.>>>>But, what do I know?>>>>JCS>>Dr. JC >>Lord of the Galactic Online Alliance>>"May the Life Force be with you, ya folla?">>www.GalacticOnlineAlliance.org>>Dr. JC >>Lord of the Galactic Online Alliance>>"May the Life Force be with you, ya folla?">>www.GalacticOnlineAlliance.org>>______________________________________________________>>>>NOTICE: The ACA reminds all those utilizing the ACA email discussion sites>>that ACA email discussion policies prohibit the posting of certain>>information including statements that may be construed to be defamatory,>>abusive or actionable under the antitrust laws( including the discussion>>of>>fees or calls to boycott). Members are urged to review the full set of>>E-Mail discussion policies at>>http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members. Your cooperation>>in>>complying with these policies is appreciated.>>--------------------------------------------------------->>ACA-members mailing list>>To post to the list:>>ACA-members@...>>To unsubscribe or change membership options:>>http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members>>List options tutorial:>>http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=>>Email filters tutorial:>>http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=>>>>>>>>>>>>OregonDCs rules:>>1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to>>foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve>>members will be tolerated.>>2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.>>3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.>>However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward,>>or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without>>his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.>>

[Guest guest]

Understood and agreed.....I just like to stir the pot once in a while to see where we are at as a group and as such the possibility of our uniting under one state association flag here in Oregon....as you have indicated we are indeed a diverse group with many individual egos, and as such it's probably a stretch to think we could ever form one group.

It's my belief we could have one association and keep the diversity via sub-chapters of the various types of practices e.g.., the internal disorders/family practice guy/gals on one end of our spectrum and the subluxation based practice guys/gals on the other....and all many of others between etc., etc., etc.

Our two association deal is wasting resources in my opinion...ah but that's just me.

Vern Saboe

[aca-members] No to Unity>>>>>>While many ACA members may agree with McLemore's call for unity,>>including myself years ago, after lengthy conversations with Jerry>>Mcs, I subsequently learned these "loonies" in the ICA and WCA are>>not>>equitable to the ACA as a member-driven organization sincerely interested>>in>>unity or legislative/academic progress in any fashion.>>>>The ACA members and independent (scab?) DCs in the field must realize that>>the ICA and WCA are vendor-driven orgs aimed at promoting the business>>interests of their leaders, all of whom are vendors with obvious conflicts>>of interest, such as: CJ Mertz, Dan , Terry Wrongberg, Bob Braille,>>Big $id , Guy Riekeman, Don on, Tom Klapp, etc. To read more>>on their conflicts of interest, logon to www.StopRondberg.org and read and>>weep how these self-serving entrepreneurs are ruining our profession as>>they>>do the Money Hum.>>>>While these Evil Vendors wrap themselves in the banner of chirovangelism>>preaching the gospel of BJ (another vendor with conflicts of interest), it>>is simply a ruse to camouflage their conflicts of interest; they have no>>interest in unity or a nationwide democratic election because they would>>be>>relegated to the margins with their chiro cultism. It's simply a>>smokescreen>>to sell their products: they care about Innatism about as much as Saddam>>cared about Allah--he only used it to his political advantage to stir the>>emotions/prejudices of Muslims, which is the nature of demagoguery. Their>>passion is phony and their motives are obvious: to make money at our>>expense.>>>>Speaking of Evil Vendors molding this profession to their profit and our>>demise, I have problems with any vendor influencing in our profession,>>including the ACA's favorites like Sanna, Greenawalt, Markson, etc. We>>harshly criticize the drug companies when they exert influence in medical>>education and practice, so how is it any different when Greenawalt and>>Sanna>>take the lead in the new PR effort (which will fail unless we do a tabula>>rasa first). Just because they have money to burn doesn't mean they should>>take the lead in our affairs, plus some of us have serious ethical>>questions>>about their modus operandi.>>>>Instead of uniting with Evil Vendors in the ICA and WCA, I suggest the ACA>>unite with reputable orgs like the FCLB, NBCE, FCER, CCE and individuals>>who>>understand this situation and create a new image for DCs. "Isolate the>>rascals" as Mcs said last year at NCLC. Let's create a new>>Code>>of Ethics for DCs who refuse to preach Innatism, refuse to use gimmicks>>like>>free exams, NOOPE, TWIP, coding schemes or phony MD/DC practices.>>>>Let's promote evidence-based care for NMS disorders; let's tell the public>>we are non-drug, non-surgical back doctors, not PCPs, not phony wellness>>doctors or pediatricians, etc. If you've read the polls, the public>>accepts>>us in this role exclusively! While some DCs with advanced degrees may>>specialize in other roles, as a whole the public is clear about our image>>and identity, but we DCs are still confused.>>>>So, forget about unity with Mertz or Wrongberg--that would be going to bed>>with the enemy, not our friends.>>>>But, what do I know?>>>>JCS>>Dr. JC >>Lord of the Galactic Online Alliance>>"May the Life Force be with you, ya folla?">>www.GalacticOnlineAlliance.org>>Dr. JC >>Lord of the Galactic Online Alliance>>"May the Life Force be with you, ya folla?">>www.GalacticOnlineAlliance.org>>______________________________________________________>>>>NOTICE: The ACA reminds all those utilizing the ACA email discussion sites>>that ACA email discussion policies prohibit the posting of certain>>information including statements that may be construed to be defamatory,>>abusive or actionable under the antitrust laws( including the discussion>>of>>fees or calls to boycott). Members are urged to review the full set of>>E-Mail discussion policies at>>http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members. Your cooperation>>in>>complying with these policies is appreciated.>>--------------------------------------------------------->>ACA-members mailing list>>To post to the list:>>ACA-members@...>>To unsubscribe or change membership options:>>http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members>>List options tutorial:>>http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=>>Email filters tutorial:>>http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=>>>>>>>>>>>>OregonDCs rules:>>1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to>>foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve>>members will be tolerated.>>2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.>>3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.>>However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward,>>or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without>>his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.>>